Why is Marriott Vacations struggling?

[CPNY]

Because of the competition for that inventory, releasing It later, even just some of it, will not create the flexibility you are imagining. The inventory will still vanish quickly and the person not paying attention to the release date will still come along and not find anything to book because they are weeks/days/hours too late. Really the only thing that will create that flexibility is creating enough additional inventory to satisfy everyone that is looking for it. And that just isn't feasible for high demand locations/times. You simply can't build timeshare units that only exist during those times and magically disappear during times when people don't want to go. And those lower demand times/locations are what is backing some of those ownerships that are chasing the high demand inventory.

Again, I’m not saying there needs to be more inventory. Releasing some later It allows for more people to compete for high demand weeks. That in itself creates a more flexible program. Why would I try to book a high demand week 13 months out if I don’t know I will be able to travel. At 6 months, more people will have a better idea of their planning. While the inventory may stay the same, the amount of people having a crack at booking it increases. I’m not sure why anyone would be against that.

 

[VacationForever]

Again, I’m not advocating for more inventory. Releasing some later It allows for more people to compete for high demand weeks. That in itself creates a more flexible program. Why would I try to book a high demand week 13 months out if I don’t know I will be able to travel. At 6 months, more people will have a better idea of their planning. While the inventory may stay the same, the amount of people having a crack at booking it increases. I’m not sure why anyone would be against that.

I am against that because most of us who own timeshare do plan 12 / 13 months ahead of time. Being able to secure a reservation is a critical piece to allow us to then plan to buy air tickets, car rental, opening up the dates for our friends to join us. If the system holds back some inventory for 6 months out or so, then there is less inventory for those of us who are planners.

 

[sponger76]

Again, I’m not advocating for more inventory. Releasing some later It allows for more people to compete for high demand weeks. That in itself creates a more flexible program. Why would I try to book a high demand week 13 months out if I don’t know I will be able to travel. At 6 months, more people will have a better idea of their planning. While the inventory may stay the same, the amount of people having a crack at booking it increases. I’m not sure why anyone would be against that.

Usage is still going to be the same. If there are only 10 units available for Christmas week and 50 owners attempt to book there for Christmas, you're still going to have 40 disappointed owners, whether inventory is released 13 months or 2 months ahead of time. Not sure how you don't grasp that concept. It's always going to be an availability problem, not a time of release problem. You'll be just as disappointed seeing no availability at 11 months out as you will be 1 month out, after others who planned better scooped it up at whatever arbitrary release date you make up.

 

[CPNY]

Usage is still going to be the same. If there are still only 10 units available for Christmas week and 50 owners attempt to book there, you're still going to have 40 disappointed owners, whether it's at 13 months or 1 month ahead of time. Not sure how you don't grasp that concept. It's always going to be an availability problem, not a time of booking problem. I can be just as disappointed 11 months out as I can be 2 months out.

I grasp the concept…. I’m not so sure you do. Once again, I’m not saying holding inventory back creates more inventory. Holding units back gives more owners a chance to book. I guess you’re just a pessimist. The real issue here is that people like you really don’t want anyone else having the opportunity to book high demand weeks. It’s giving selfish vibes.

I’ll tell you this…. If Marriott implemented this, their sales reps would have a nice time selling the fact that the program is designed to give people who book last minute the same opportunity to book high demand weeks. A true flexible vacation ownership program where you will have the same chances at a high demand week closer to time of travel.

Let’s take your 10 unit example. Which is more flexible for all owners? Notice is said ALL owners and not just the retiree crowd

Scenario A:
1 unit released at 13 months
9 units released at 12 months

Scenario B:
2 units released at 13 months
5 units released at 12 months
2 units released at 6 months
1 unit released at 3 months

 

[CPNY]

I am against that because most of us who own timeshare do plan 12 / 13 months ahead of time. Being able to secure a reservation is a critical piece to allow us to then plan to buy air tickets, car rental, opening up the dates for our friends to join us. If the system holds back some inventory for 6 months out or so, then there is less inventory for those of us who are planners.

I’m not saying that the bulk of the inventory shouldn’t be released at 13/12. But a handful of units for 6/3 month release would be helpful for those who cannot plan. Take a look at how many people are reserving high demand weeks just to rent. I get that people can do what they want with their ownerships but holding some back would benefit owners.

I have zero intention of electing for club points because of the 12 month issue. I’d rather play the VSN 8 month / interval game until that dries up. But let’s say Marriott announces a new release calendar, I’d be more likely to convert knowing I’d have a chance at a summer week somewhere closer to check in

 

[sponger76]

I grasp the concept…. I’m not so sure you do. Once again, I’m not saying holding inventory back creates more inventory. Holding units back gives more owners a chance to book. I guess you’re just a pessimist. The real issue here is that people like you really don’t want anyone else having the opportunity to book high demand weeks. It’s giving selfish vibes.

I’ll tell you this…. If Marriott implemented this, their sales reps would have a nice time selling the fact that the program is designed to give people who book last minute the same opportunity to book high demand weeks. A true flexible vacation ownership program where you will have the same chances at a high demand week closer to time of travel.

Let’s take your 10 unit example. Which is more flexible for all owners? Notice is said ALL owners and not just the retiree crowd

Scenario A:
1 unit released at 13 months
9 units released at 12 months

Scenario B:
2 units released at 13 months
5 units released at 12 months
2 units released at 6 months
1 unit released at 3 months

Look, I'm not in the retiree crowd and I don't always get to confirm my vacation dates and plans a year out. I get it. It's not about being selfish for me personally, no matter what aspersions you try to cast. I just accept that in the real world people who can plan in advance will have an advantage, even if it's at my personal expense. It's just like when some super hot toy is put out. Those who get to the store earlier are gonna be able to have it under the tree for Christmas, and those who don't won't. The difference between toys and timeshares is that eventually (maybe too late for Christmas) the manufacturer will make more of that toy to put in stores. Timeshare developers can't as easily create more units for a specific week in a given year.

 

[CPNY]

Look, I'm not in the retiree crowd and I don't always get to confirm my vacation dates and plans a year out. I get it. It's not about being selfish for me personally, no matter what aspersions you try to cast. I just accept that in the real world people who can plan in advance will have an advantage, even if it's at my personal expense. It's just like when some super hot toy is put out. Those who get to the store earlier are gonna be able to have it under the tree for Christmas, and those who don't won't. The difference between toys and timeshares is that eventually (maybe too late for Christmas) the manufacturer will make more of that toy to put in stores. Timeshare developers can't as easily create more units for a specific week in a given year.

Marriott points are not the hot Christmas toys, that’s for sure. The hot Christmas toy is usually sitting on the shelf with plenty to be had during the fall months. It only becomes hot because everyone is shopping last minute and you can’t get the toy in time for Christmas. Maybe Marriott should hold back inventory until 1 month out, then it can be exactly like the hot Christmas toy. A big old Frenzy for the last minute shopper.

 

[VacationForever]

Marriott points are not the hot Christmas toys, that’s for sure. The hot Christmas toy is usually sitting on the shelf with plenty to be had during the fall months. It only becomes hot because everyone is shopping last minute and you can’t get the toy in time for Christmas. Maybe Marriott should hold back inventory until 1 month out, then it can be exactly like the hot Christmas toy. A big old Frenzy for the last minute shopper.

It is a sad day when timeshare turns into Walmart black Friday shopping. I will be the first to get rid of my timeshare if it becomes that.

 

[jmhpsu93]

Let’s take your 10 unit example. Which is more flexible for all owners? Notice is said ALL owners and not just the retiree crowd

I've owned timeshares since I was 37 (now I'm going on 55, so not even remotely the "retiree crowd"). I've always known you need to plan in advance and be a little flexible. If you want to book something 30 days out, timeshare ownership in whatever form is not the best route to travel, so to speak.

 

[Dean]

Again, I’m not saying there needs to be more inventory. Releasing some later It allows for more people to compete for high demand weeks. That in itself creates a more flexible program. Why would I try to book a high demand week 13 months out if I don’t know I will be able to travel. At 6 months, more people will have a better idea of their planning. While the inventory may stay the same, the amount of people having a crack at booking it increases. I’m not sure why anyone would be against that.

Releasing later doesn't solve the problem you started with, that of those wanting to plan last minute. It just changes when availability occurs. Those that plan, are educated and play the game will still secure the best options. You can't release late enough for that group of people without dramatically increasing unused inventory. For air travel availability needs to be around 11 months out for many options.

 

[dioxide45]

The problem with timeshares is that there isn't dynamic pricing. The utilize seasons and or point values to try and temper demand for certain times of the year. Another issue is that certain resorts were sold with large prime seasons even though there are only a few prime weeks that people actually want to go there. Think about Newport Coast where the entire months of the fall are Platinum season yet most people want to go in June, July or August. Holding inventory back won't matter because it will all of it will still book up on the first day available after release. Many people who buy timeshare think it is like a hotel and you can just call up when your desire strikes and book what you want. Having later release dates won't necessarily fix that, but dynamic pricing would. But dynamic pricing isn't really an option for timeshare.

 

[DRH90277]

I think the biggest impediment to MVC's ongoing success in sales is trying to sell points at high prices in relation to the purchase and use of resale units for vacations. Consider Newport Coast - Would a knowing buyer pay $65,000 (discount of 20%) for 5,000 points for a 1-week reservation at NC when they can pay $10,000 to own a platinum resale week. And, they will pay about 50% less in maintenance fees.

Others can address the points advantages, but I've experienced both and see only a modest value in the incremental point features and a real weakness in the ability to get point reservations.

 

[Fasttr]

I think the biggest impediment to MVC's ongoing success is trying to sell points at high prices in relation to the purchase and use of resale units for vacations. Consider Newport Coast - Would a knowing buyer pay $65,000 (discount of 20%) for 5,000 points for a 1 week reservation at NC when they can pay $10,000 to own a platinum resale week. And, they will pay about 50% less in maintenance fees.

Others can address the points advantages, but I've experienced both and see only a modest value in the incremental point features and a real weakness in the ability to get point reservations.

Most new-to-timeshare buyers have no clue a resale weeks market exists.

 

[sponger76]

Marriott points are not the hot Christmas toys, that’s for sure. The hot Christmas toy is usually sitting on the shelf with plenty to be had during the fall months. It only becomes hot because everyone is shopping last minute and you can’t get the toy in time for Christmas. Maybe Marriott should hold back inventory until 1 month out, then it can be exactly like the hot Christmas toy. A big old Frenzy for the last minute shopper.

You absolutely still do not get it. The hot toy isn't the points. Those are the currency used to buy the toy. The hot toy is the stay at the desirable location at the desirable time. You want to talk about people being selfish, make sure you look in the mirror. You're the one trying to ask for things your way so you can book more last minute instead of planning ahead. You want to reward tbe procrastinator and penalize the responsible planner. Except your "solution" still won't help the poor planner unless they get lucky by happening to log in to search at the right moment. As I said, I'm not always able to be the year-out planner, but I don't begrudge them when they come out ahead of me.

 

[Hindsite]

I’d rather play the VSN 8 month / interval game until that dries up. But let’s say Marriott announces a new release calendar,

Sales have been telling me that II inventory will dry up for the last 20 years, I can't see it happening for another 30 years so you're probably going to be OK

 

[Eric B]

I’ve only been using Abound since Vistana was integrated. So far it seems to me that there is effectively a release of availability at around the 60 day point due to the cancellation policies, so Marriott doesn’t really need to release additional held back availability. It has worked for me to be able to make adjustments to my travel plans, though it does take monitoring the availability.

In the end, though, I don’t believe that adjusting availability release timing would matter to the developer’s profitability. Timeshares are like car sales after all - they rely on unequal information between the seller and the purchaser to get the prices they do. Details like the existence of the resale market and difficulty booking short notice high demand time likely won’t make much difference to a sale because they don’t come up for the uninformed.

Changing the availability release calendar also wouldn’t really make high demand time available to more people - instead it would just be to possibly different people, though I would expect folks that spend the effort to plan now would adjust to the changes and still be able to book high demand time. Looking for availability at precisely midnight, 9:00 AM, or any other specific time exactly one or two months before check in doesn’t sound like it would be compatible with spur of the moment vacation booking to me, but would still be needed as they always follow release patterns.

 

[Ken555]

As I read these comments I am reminded of the reason some desire short notice availability - the resorts are booked. I have yet to hear the reason, other than possible customer satisfaction by a segment of owners, why the resorts should hold back inventory at resorts where they have historically already sold those dates.

There are almost always availability at short notice at some resorts, though perhaps not at exactly preferred dates nor unit size. After all, II has last minute offerings all the time and even VSN properties have last minute availability.

As long as the resorts are booked, why would the resort and the HOA care about holding back units for later release? They’re already booked which shows that many owners can plan in advance (which, after all, was an integral component of Timesharing since forever).

For me, the justification of owning timeshares has always been a trade off. Commit to paying an annual cost for travel in larger than a hotel room at limited locations and be required to reserve 8-12 (now 13 for some) months in advance in order to more likely, but not guarantee, I get what I want. I don’t see any reason for this to change at this time.

Nope. Not convinced.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DRH90277]

Sales have been telling me that II inventory will dry up for the last 20 years, I can't see it happening for another 30 years so you're probably going to be OK

I can't imagine the II inventory ever drying up without "week ownership" diminishing in a big way. I don't see that happening as so many of us own weeks and tell our friends to buy resale.

However, the quality of the trust inventory available for point purchases does seem to be on the way down.

By the way, I think my prediction might be better than what comes from a biased salesperson. The first question to a salesperson should be "Tell me what weeks and how many points you own?

 

[Ken555]

The first question to a salesperson should be "Tell me what weeks and how many points you own?

Given that these sales staff lie and/or obfuscate the truth about timesharing why would you think they will tell you the truth about what they own? I remember sales telling me what they own, but it's so transparent a lie I almost laughed. I don't understand why anyone thinks the sales staff are completely honest and if they're not completely honest, then why would you think they are accurately stating what they own (which is likely none)?

 

[1Kflyerguy]

While i am sure having greater inventory availability on short notice would appeal to some, i am not sure that's really the main objection of younger buyers. In the conversations about travel with younger co-workers, many of them do book on short notice, but they do the booking based on where they find deals and discounts..

The other thing i hear alot is the desire to see lots of new places, and while many of the timeshare brands have a lot of resorts, the overall scope of places you can effectively visit with timeshares is a lot more limited than when using hotels and AirBNB, etc.

 

[DRH90277]

Given that these sales staff lie and/or obfuscate the truth about timesharing why would you think they will tell you the truth about what they own? I remember sales telling me what they own, but it's so transparent a lie I almost laughed. I don't understand why anyone thinks the sales staff are completely honest and if they're not completely honest, then why would you think they are accurately stating what they own (which is likely none)?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But, at least I respect your right to express your opinion.

Looks like you represent those who are only owners thru recent additions to Marriott family of resorts.

 

[Ken555]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But, at least I respect your right to express your opinion.

Looks like you represent those who are only owners thru recent additions to Marriott family of resorts.

Huh? You are honestly saying that you believe what the sales staff tell you?

And what does Marriott buying Vistana (forcing me to be classified as a “recent addition”?!) how to do with this? It’s true at all timeshare companies. The only way they sell is via fear and manipulative sales techniques.

Convince me otherwise.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TUGBrian]

appears my microphone is clearly broken....

if you cant have an adult discussion, stop participating in this thread. consider it read only!

 

[GTLINZ]

Holding units back gives more owners a chance to book.

@CPNY - holding back units would do as you say, but it is certainly against the business model.

That models pushes you to climb ownership levels with more points (or even own multiple weeks with weeks ownerships) so that you can book earlier - and have a better chance to snag that peak inventory.

Being fair was never the objective.

 

[Eric B]

@CPNY - holding back units would do as you say, but it is certainly against the business model.

That models pushes you to climb ownership levels with more points (or even own multiple weeks with weeks ownerships) so that you can book earlier - and have a better chance to snag that peak inventory.

Being fair was never the objective.

Some would say that favoring those most invested is fair and aligns with the objective of selling more.