Why I like HGVMax... Timeshare Traveler Episode 184

[Clifbell]

For many peoiple who don't own timeshares, learning about the good parts of the timeshare from a timeshare salesperson can be misleading. SO I decided to create a video of the parts of HGVMax that I like. This comes from a person who has years of timeshare experience. and has practical experience as a traveler.

I wanted to provide an understanding of the benefits of HGVmax without the sales hyperbole or bluster. I've owned Hilton timeshares since about 2010. I've been very happy with the product and have vacationed with them across the US... I've not done a lot of vacationing internationally, but plan to in the near future.

One of the best features about HGVMax is that the locations continue to expand. In addition, Hilton has added new feeatures and capabilities that the original Hilton Timeshares did not have. I appreciate the innovation and expansion of the HGVMax program.

Why I like HGVMax... Timeshare Traveler Episode 184

Map of all my timeshare reviews

 

[pedro47]

Is this a win or is there any advantages for former DRI owners, who do not wish to join the HGVMAX program. Especially those DRI owners who have pay off their timeshare? What is your personal opinion after 14 years of Hilton ownership?

 

[jp10558]

I often hear on TUG that there's no way there's much availability in HGVMax at 6 months when you can book, but obviously you've found some to go to 11 properties. How many Diamond (or Bluegreen) do you see in Max at the 6 months? How does it compare to booking at 9 months in HGVC?

Maybe with status the math works out differently, but the conventional wisdom at TUG is to just buy Diamond resale if you want Diamond properties (maybe with upgrades this'll be worth it, but right now there's a lot of doubt from what I'm seeing). I know from earlier videos you bought a lot (maybe all) developer - for someone who is resale only, do you think there's any reason to buy developer to get HGVMax instead of just adding a resale contract?

The reasons I could think of are
1) Max maintenance fees work out less than 2 or 3 legacy MFs, enough to make up for a large purchase.
2) HGVC deeds with Max are going to be easier to resell or give away when you want to get rid of them compared to Diamond or Bluegreen so paying more up front is better for a quicker exit later.
3) If you happened to be getting enough to get your Premier status(s) the Elite perks tip the scales in value. Otherwise it's different.
4) You just have more ways to not lose points / let MF go to waste in a single HGVMax bucket vs some amount in other systems that won't have the save features or maybe not as slick RCI exchanges and don't convert to HHonors points as a last resort.

I kind of hope HGVC eventually lets you just buy Max as an upgrade or get it transferred with a resale, because while I could see paying $300 more a year for the exchange, I can't see paying $14k or more up front to get it, along with more MFs every year.

 

[Clifbell]

Is this a win or is there any advantages for former DRI owners, who do not wish to join the HGVMAX program. Especially those DRI owners who have pay off their timeshare? What is your personal opinion after 14 years of Hilton ownership?

I had a similar conversation with a DRI member at the pool at the Point at Poipu. I suggested they visit one of the Hilton locations on the big island (since they are a fan of Hawaii) and see if they are happy with the new locations... You can rent them through Hilton hotels so you can decide after visiting... Or do a VIP package as a trial.

I would suggest the same for any DRI owner in thinking about it... Try out a location that if you liked would make it worth it.

 

[Clifbell]

I often hear on TUG that there's no way there's much availability in HGVMax at 6 months when you can book, but obviously you've found some to go to 11 properties. How many Diamond (or Bluegreen) do you see in Max at the 6 months? How does it compare to booking at 9 months in HGVC?

Maybe with status the math works out differently, but the conventional wisdom at TUG is to just buy Diamond resale if you want Diamond properties (maybe with upgrades this'll be worth it, but right now there's a lot of doubt from what I'm seeing). I know from earlier videos you bought a lot (maybe all) developer - for someone who is resale only, do you think there's any reason to buy developer to get HGVMax instead of just adding a resale contract?

The reasons I could think of are
1) Max maintenance fees work out less than 2 or 3 legacy MFs, enough to make up for a large purchase.
2) HGVC deeds with Max are going to be easier to resell or give away when you want to get rid of them compared to Diamond or Bluegreen so paying more up front is better for a quicker exit later.
3) If you happened to be getting enough to get your Premier status(s) the Elite perks tip the scales in value. Otherwise it's different.
4) You just have more ways to not lose points / let MF go to waste in a single HGVMax bucket vs some amount in other systems that won't have the save features or maybe not as slick RCI exchanges and don't convert to HHonors points as a last resort.

I kind of hope HGVC eventually lets you just buy Max as an upgrade or get it transferred with a resale, because while I could see paying $300 more a year for the exchange, I can't see paying $14k or more up front to get it, along with more MFs every year.

I could easily see just buying resale and sticking with that... I travel a little off peak so going to 11 locations over the last year was not too difficult... I do have a little bit of the Hawaii Collection and I had bought a sampler package (trial 15K points). I think the inventory will continue to increase in Max over time... They have to tak buildings off line when they upgrade, so there are buildings offline currently at Liki Tiki, Point at Poipu, and Palm Canyon... When they come back online there will be more inventory.

The systems are not integrated yet, so the locations are spotty compared to how it will be.

I had bought two 11,200 point deeds in resale and bought $25K each time to bring them into HGVMax... so 22.4K of my 61K points are resale.. My overall cost is about $2.50 per point... Still a lot more than resale but way below retail now.

I think the big question is which locations do you like... I am considering at this point a resale in Bluegreen just to have points with priority... I am premier+ and never plan to be Centum, not reason to buy retail at this point... If I were you and you want priority, see if it is still an option to convert resale into retail... Especially if HGVMax is worth it to you.

Just my 2 cents

 

[dioxide45]

I often hear on TUG that there's no way there's much availability in HGVMax at 6 months when you can book, but obviously you've found some to go to 11 properties. How many Diamond (or Bluegreen) do you see in Max at the 6 months? How does it compare to booking at 9 months in HGVC?

Maybe with status the math works out differently, but the conventional wisdom at TUG is to just buy Diamond resale if you want Diamond properties (maybe with upgrades this'll be worth it, but right now there's a lot of doubt from what I'm seeing). I know from earlier videos you bought a lot (maybe all) developer - for someone who is resale only, do you think there's any reason to buy developer to get HGVMax instead of just adding a resale contract?

The reasons I could think of are
1) Max maintenance fees work out less than 2 or 3 legacy MFs, enough to make up for a large purchase.
2) HGVC deeds with Max are going to be easier to resell or give away when you want to get rid of them compared to Diamond or Bluegreen so paying more up front is better for a quicker exit later.
3) If you happened to be getting enough to get your Premier status(s) the Elite perks tip the scales in value. Otherwise it's different.
4) You just have more ways to not lose points / let MF go to waste in a single HGVMax bucket vs some amount in other systems that won't have the save features or maybe not as slick RCI exchanges and don't convert to HHonors points as a last resort.

I kind of hope HGVC eventually lets you just buy Max as an upgrade or get it transferred with a resale, because while I could see paying $300 more a year for the exchange, I can't see paying $14k or more up front to get it, along with more MFs every year.

I don't think your first two points are relevant. Max is just an exchange company. It doesn't change the maintenance fees of what you own. For the second, Max doesn't transfer on resale so it won't make it any easier to sell. There is no such thing as deeds with Max. You get Max membership based on certain qualifications and one of those is buying more timeshare direct from HGV.

 

[dioxide45]

I could easily see just buying resale and sticking with that... I travel a little off peak so going to 11 locations over the last year was not too difficult... I do have a little bit of the Hawaii Collection and I had bought a sampler package (trial 15K points). I think the inventory will continue to increase in Max over time... They have to tak buildings off line when they upgrade, so there are buildings offline currently at Liki Tiki, Point at Poipu, and Palm Canyon... When they come back online there will be more inventory.

The systems are not integrated yet, so the locations are spotty compared to how it will be.

I had bought two 11,200 point deeds in resale and bought $25K each time to bring them into HGVMax... so 22.4K of my 61K points are resale.. My overall cost is about $2.50 per point... Still a lot more than resale but way below retail now.

I think the big question is which locations do you like... I am considering at this point a resale in Bluegreen just to have points with priority... I am premier+ and never plan to be Centum, not reason to buy retail at this point... If I were you and you want priority, see if it is still an option to convert resale into retail... Especially if HGVMax is worth it to you.

Just my 2 cents

Clif, After watching your Liki Tiki video. I understand that you paid cash for that and it wasn't actually through Max. Of the 11 Diamond properties you have visited, how many have actually been because of Max?

 

[GT75]

The systems are not integrated yet, so the locations are spotty compared to how it will be.

Why do you say that? What is your evidence?

 

[jp10558]

I don't think your first two points are relevant. Max is just an exchange company. It doesn't change the maintenance fees of what you own. For the second, Max doesn't transfer on resale so it won't make it any easier to sell. There is no such thing as deeds with Max. You get Max membership based on certain qualifications and one of those is buying more timeshare direct from HGV.

I think you might not have understood me. Presumably one *could* be comparing
1 week of HGVC MFs that you buy to get Max
vs
1 week of HGVC MFs you already have plus 1 week of MFs in Diamond and 1 week MFs in Bluegreen, assuming you wanted legacy access to all 3 systems, vs just the one MF potentially if you buy in to get Max.

And the second point was probably worded even worse, I mean if you did Max vs buying the additional week(s) in the other systems, you only have 1 or more HGVC underlying weeks, which are as I understand it easier to sell or give away than Diamond and way easier vs Bluegreen.

So if you do save a lot up front by going all legacy in all 3 systems (under the assumption you want some access to all locations), you might end up needing to default on one or two MFs to get rid of all 3 later on if nothing changes. Of course, we don't know if HGVC will remain desirable into the future, and we don't know if whatever Hilton is doing with Diamond and now Bluegreen won't make them more desirable resale down the road.

 

[GT75]

I think you might not have understood me. Presumably one *could* be comparing
1 week of HGVC MFs that you buy to get Max
vs
1 week of HGVC MFs you already have plus 1 week of MFs in Diamond and 1 week MFs in Bluegreen, assuming you wanted legacy access to all 3 systems, vs just the one MF potentially if you buy in to get Max.

Wow, that isn’t compariable, IMO. HGVMax will get you much reduced benefits in the other two clubs (eg. 6-month booking window. And from what we believe it is only an exchange). I looks like you are believing the dots on the map that HGV is presenting. From comments made, it is very hard to book in the other clubs at the 6-month mark. In fact, in some owner’s update the salesperson has shown the difference in the booking availability between HgvMax and the other club.

 

[jp10558]

Wow, that isn’t compariable, IMO. HGVMax will get you much reduced benefits in the other two clubs (eg. 6-month booking window. And from what we believe it is only an exchange). I looks like you are believing the dots on the map that HGV is presenting. From comments made, it is very hard to book in the other clubs at the 6-month mark. In fact, in some owner’s update the salesperson has shown the difference in the booking availability between HgvMax and the other club.

This is what I thought, but it seems like Cliff's experience as reported here in the videos linked is much better? Or he's way bought into the Max sales pitch, but he claims to say he has already done 11 stays and has videos of many Diamond properties...

I don't think Max is worth anything, certainly not $25,000 or even a claimed $7,000 upgrade fee. That's years of MFs on buying resale for near 0 in Diamond or Bluegreen. I personally continue to just look for RCI deals for Diamond properties.

 

[dayooper]

This is what I thought, but it seems like Cliff's experience as reported here in the videos linked is much better? Or he's way bought into the Max sales pitch, but he claims to say he has already done 11 stays and has videos of many Diamond properties...

I don't think Max is worth anything, certainly not $25,000 or even a claimed $7,000 upgrade fee. That's years of MFs on buying resale for near 0 in Diamond or Bluegreen. I personally continue to just look for RCI deals for Diamond properties.

@Clifbell can verify, but I believe that he makes a lot of lower season reservations. He doesn't go during the prime weeks.

 

[geist1223]

We are owners of DRI. We do not think MAX is worth the cost with all its restrictions. Also we would lose many of our DRI Benefits. Plus we can Book via RCI more than 6 months in advance. We can pay years of RCI exchange fees for them cost of joining MAX without the MAX Program Fees. Our RCI Membership fees are paid by Worldmark.

We also question Reviews by a person trying to gain benefits from the Organization by their reviews.

 

[GT75]

This is what I thought, but it seems like Cliff's experience as reported here in the videos linked is much better?

IMO, his videos are misleading in that they don’t represent the normal user because he books manly off-season, his reporting doesn’t provided a critical analysis and he has a “marketing relationship” with HGV. The videos do provide a good review of the resort.

 

[jp10558]

IMO, his videos are misleading in that they don’t represent the normal user because he books manly off-season, his reporting doesn’t provided a critical analysis and he has a “marketing relationship” with HGV. The videos do provide a good review of the resort.

He has said he travels off season, but kind of quickly and not calling attention to it. What I'd like to see more of (and I sort of intend to do if I start releasing videos) is also show a bit what off season looks like. Maybe talk about what you can't do off season, and what you can. I feel like Cliff mostly talks about using it to live in, but I at least am also interested in what you can do that is fun in the area and enjoy it.

 

[dioxide45]

IMO, his videos are misleading in that they don’t represent the normal user because he books manly off-season, his reporting doesn’t provided a critical analysis and he has a “marketing relationship” with HGV. The videos do provide a good review of the resort.

Something else to keep in mind is that Cliff is a high level VIP in the program. A lot of the perks of his ownership and Max membership (Lyft credit, Open Season credit, room upgrades) won't apply to most owners. If you've put the money in and you are comfortable with the costs involved it is easy to be happy with it. Unfortunately too many people are strong armed in to buying the minimum and quickly learn that it isn't enough and they get disgruntled fast.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

He has said he travels off season, but kind of quickly and not calling attention to it. What I'd like to see more of (and I sort of intend to do if I start releasing videos) is also show a bit what off season looks like. Maybe talk about what you can't do off season, and what you can. I feel like Cliff mostly talks about using it to live in, but I at least am also interested in what you can do that is fun in the area and enjoy it.

Cliff has done a number of tip videos / general overview of his booking strategy to maximize his time traveling. He goes over traveling off season, get island / resort view instead of ocean. He also covers booking a smaller unit with hope of an upgrade, etc.

As for what to do in area, there are some channels that just focus on the resorts, rooms grounds etc.. and there are some that also showcase the area and what to do there. I watch a variety of the channels to get multiple viewpoints.

 

[Clifbell]

Something else to keep in mind is that Cliff is a high level VIP in the program. A lot of the perks of his ownership and Max membership (Lyft credit, Open Season credit, room upgrades) won't apply to most owners. If you've put the money in and you are comfortable with the costs involved it is easy to be happy with it. Unfortunately too many people are strong armed in to buying the minimum and quickly learn that it isn't enough and they get disgruntled fast.

Completely agree that many people are strong armed into it... I try to give people the guidance to know what they want to keep that from happening... But too often it does.

 

[bigbillf]

One comment, as we had an owners update last week. HGVC offered us 5,000 HGVMax and qualify one of our 11,200 LV Paradise resale weeks into Max for $40,000. However, no changes in our deeded week, but our maintenance fees would increase by $1,800. Our maintenance fees at Paradise run just over $.10/point. But adding an additional $1,800 per year with only adding 5,000 max points raises our overall combined annual maintenance fees to just over $.18 per point. So in addition to the $40,000 buy-in, it also raises our annual maintenance fees a good $1,300 over what we are paying on our LV resale. Seems to me, the additional benefits being in Max over just being in the HGV Club has to really be beneficial for the additional buy-in and the additional annual maintenance fees. That being......is this hill worth the climb? BTW, the HGVC representative was very cordial and low on the pressure. We were done, did not bite and on our way in just about one hour.

 

[dayooper]

One comment, as we had an owners update last week. HGVC offered us 5,000 HGVMax and qualify one of our 11,200 LV Paradise resale weeks into Max for $40,000. However, no changes in our deeded week, but our maintenance fees would increase by $1,800. Our maintenance fees at Paradise run just over $.10/point. But adding an additional $1,800 per year with only adding 5,000 max points raises our overall combined annual maintenance fees to just over $.18 per point. So in addition to the $40,000 buy-in, it also raises our annual maintenance fees a good $1,300 over what we are paying on our LV resale. Seems to me, the additional benefits being in Max over just being in the HGV Club has to really be beneficial for the additional buy-in and the additional annual maintenance fees. That being......is this hill worth the climb? BTW, the HGVC representative was very cordial and low on the pressure. We were done, did not bite and on our way in just about one hour.

Those 5000 “HGVMax” points were probably former DRI points. You would have your 11200 points from Paradise you can book at 9 months on the HGVC side and 5000 HVC/DRI points you could book at 10 months from the that side. I’m not sure if you can combine them at 6 months or not.

What did they mean by requalifying? Were they giving you preferred status or just saying you could use your points in Max. If it’s the latter, when enrolled in Max, you can use those points just like any other developer bought deed. You just wouldn’t have the tier status.

$40k for a weeks worth of accommodations at one of the lower DRI resorts. That’s a lot of money, IMO.

 

[geist1223]

We are DRI. We are just finishing up a 3 week stay at The Bay Club in Waikoloa Resort Area. We are not MAX. We Booked the 3 weeks through RCI 13 months in advance through our Worldmark Account. We can pay a lot of RCI fees for the cost of joining MAX and Book a lot further in advance.

 

[Talent312]

We Booked the 3 weeks through RCI 13 months in advance through our Worldmark Account. We can pay a lot of RCI fees for the cost of joining MAX and Book a lot further in advance.

I concur. There will always be peep who believe the Max booking engine is somehow worth the expense. But IMHO, whether you're legacy DRI or legacy HGVC, if you want to book the other, it's far more economical to book thru RCI and pay the related fees than to buy into Max.

 

[dioxide45]

Those 5000 “HGVMax” points were probably former DRI points. You would have your 11200 points from Paradise you can book at 9 months on the HGVC side and 5000 HVC/DRI points you could book at 10 months from the that side. I’m not sure if you can combine them at 6 months or not.

What did they mean by requalifying? Were they giving you preferred status or just saying you could use your points in Max. If it’s the latter, when enrolled in Max, you can use those points just like any other developer bought deed. You just wouldn’t have the tier status.

$40k for a weeks worth of accommodations at one of the lower DRI resorts. That’s a lot of money, IMO.

It's interesting that sales is calling these "HGV Max points." I guess they are trying to put lipstick on a pig?

 

[dayooper]

It's interesting that sales is calling these "HGV Max points." I guess they are trying to put lipstick on a pig?

Yup. They have a glut of HVC/DRI points and most HGVC members don’t want to buy them. The MF’s are too high. It bothers me they would stoop this low, but it really doesn’t surprise me. It’s why we will not go on presentations.

 

[bigbillf]

That was more my view as I am more familiar with Starwood/Vistana as they qualify resales as developers weeks. So as I understood, they would be allowing those11,200 resale points to be used in max and count toward elite status, but the 16,200 combined points would not be enough to gets us into an elite status level. But IMHO a bit too steep for me, at $40,000 plus $1,800 annual maintenance fees on the additional 5,000 Max points, for any added value.