Which Property to buy? Kierland or Vistana Villages

[echino]

So your saying if I buy SVV or WKV I can not rent out Westin Lagunamar? Even though they are my star optioms to do with what i please? What does it say on the implications of doing so?

It's on every confirmation:

 

[byeloe]

So your saying if I buy SVV or WKV I can not rent out Westin Lagunamar? Even though they are my star optioms to do with what i please? What does it say on the implications of doing so?

Correct, you can book Lagunamar for your own use at the 8 month but you can't rent it out since it isn't your home resort.
As an FYI Lagunamar doesn't rent that well. You would do better renting out your WKV unit

 

[iftravel]

That is really what it comes down to. If you have no plans to rent out WKV, then owning there doesn't matter as much. WKV will retain its value over time. So 14 years from now it may still be worth $15K. It likely won't go up and it will probably go down some. Is it worth saving the $12-$13K now and buy SVV instead and use the interest on the money to pay the extra maintenance fees every year? There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer.

Yeah, the math is different if you rent. The 2-bd could be split into 2 1-bed and rent for 2k and 2.5k, and perhaps you can net 2k profit each year, and the rental income is easily over 12% return on capital. Still 15k is a lot to start with. If anyone is selling it for 5k, I will grab one. lol.

 

[andremike]

It's on every confirmation:
View attachment 104619

Is it at the end? I just went through making a Reservation just short of the last step and never saw that.

 

[dioxide45]

Is it at the end? I just went through making a Reservation just short of the last step and never saw that.

At the end (bottom) of the email confirmation. It is also in the VSN terms and conditions that you agree to by being a VSN member (voluntary or mandatory).

 

[dioxide45]

So your saying if I buy SVV or WKV I can not rent out Westin Lagunamar? Even though they are my star optioms to do with what i please? What does it say on the implications of doing so?

Unfortunately they are not yours to do with as you please. You agree to terms and conditions when you become a VSN member.

 

[dioxide45]

Yeah, the math is different if you rent. The 2-bd could be split into 2 1-bed and rent for 2k and 2.5k, and perhaps you can net 2k profit each year, and the rental income is easily over 12% return on capital. Still 15k is a lot to start with. If anyone is selling it for 5k, I will grab one. lol.

But if you are buying to use the rental proposition is meaningless. When you use the week, the rental revenue is $0.

 

[WorldT]

Also, may I recommend you don't buy with the plan to rent, as only a very narrow window rents well and even that is not guaranteed. Your math should be based on what you plan to use. You will rent if you can't use it or use it (stay or exchange) if you can't rent.

 

[iftravel]

But if you are buying to use the rental proposition is meaningless. When you use the week, the rental revenue is $0.

Also, may I recommend you don't buy with the plan to rent, as only a very narrow window rents well and even that is not guaranteed. Your math should be based on what you plan to use. You will rent if you can't use it or use it (stay or exchange) if you can't rent.

All makes sense. If it rents for double amount of MF, by all means do it. Don’t know how easy it is to rent though - different business. I’m thinking of DVC. I paid a premium for it but find out points are easy to rent so I could rent it out or go use it, I like that flexibility. Small 1-bed platinum plus in WKV is likely similar if it rents well. Book a premium week and list for a good profit. It someone rents it good just take the profit, otherwise if you can use it, just use it, or place a request first in II for a dream place like Hawaii, and in the end, if nothing works out, deposit into II and good for 2 more years. For 800 ish annual fee, likely worth it for so many options. Of course don’t want to pay a lot for it since it’s kind of investment perspective now.

 

[byeloe]

What's your opinion of a 1 bedroom at westin Kierland Plat + 67k options for $4k?

Was that on Redweek?

 

[andremike]

Here is the rental policy


Vistana™ Signature Experiences does not offer an Owner rental program at any of its villa resorts. However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations of your Home Resort, and as the Owner, you will be responsible for the acts or omissions of your renter and their guests. Once you have rented your Home Resort Vacation Period, please notify Owner Services of the arriving guest name to ensure their access to your reservation at check-in. Owners should be current in all fees, including maintenance fees and taxes, associated with ownership prior to the arrival date. To ensure your guest a seamless check-in, please pay all fees in advance, as guests will not be allowed to check in until all fees are paid. If additional housekeeping fees are assessed on the reservation, your guest will be responsible for paying these fees at check-out if you have not settled the fees with the resort prior to your guest’s departure (see confirmation to determine if additional housekeeping fees are assessed).

 

[byeloe]

However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental.

The key is booking at your home resort

 

[DavidnRobin]

Here is the rental policy


Vistana™ Signature Experiences does not offer an Owner rental program at any of its villa resorts. However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations of your Home Resort, and as the Owner, you will be responsible for the acts or omissions of your renter and their guests. Once you have rented your Home Resort Vacation Period, please notify Owner Services of the arriving guest name to ensure their access to your reservation at check-in. Owners should be current in all fees, including maintenance fees and taxes, associated with ownership prior to the arrival date. To ensure your guest a seamless check-in, please pay all fees in advance, as guests will not be allowed to check in until all fees are paid. If additional housekeeping fees are assessed on the reservation, your guest will be responsible for paying these fees at check-out if you have not settled the fees with the resort prior to your guest’s departure (see confirmation to determine if additional housekeeping fees are assessed).

What is the source of this text? Does VSE still exists?
This topic has been discussed previously (more than once...) and the text that has been posted previously is different than this. Mine came from the WKORV/N documents back in the VSE days. Has it been updated?

It has been discussed whether it is clear or not that it may be possible to rent a SO reservation (not made as a HomeResort reservation) can still be rented as long as it it the person's HomeResort. I don't agree, but others argued the rental text in the CCRs was ambiguous.

Regardless - plenty of people are reserving using SOs and renting them out. Some as a business.

 

[andremike]

What is the source of this text? Does VSE still exists?
This topic has been discussed previously (more than once...) and the text that has been posted previously is different than this. Mine came from the WKORV/N documents back in the VSE days. Has it been updated?

It has been discussed whether it is clear or not that it may be possible to rent a SO reservation (not made as a HomeResort reservation) can still be rented as long as it it the person's HomeResort. I don't agree, but others argued the rental text in the CCRs was ambiguous.

Regardless - plenty of people are reserving using SOs and renting them out. Some as a business.

It's from the vistana website... particularly the Ownership 101 link. Under Renting my vacation ownership..

 

[dioxide45]

Does VSE still exists?

VSE still exists as it is what is still used to facilitate StarOption trades/reservations. VSE made an affiliation agreement with Abound in order for VSE members to be able to use Club Points. VSE is made up of multiple small exchange companies that were created over the years.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I forgot the Owners Manual (Handbook) is online on the Vistana site. Here are relevant excerpts related to renting.

NETWORK GUIDE R-6 (MANDATORY RESORTS)
Owner's Handbook

• Network Members may not be able to rent or buy StarOptions for one-time use. The assignment or transfer by one Network Member of the use of the Network Member's StarOptions to another Network Member is prohibited.
• Network Member may make a reservation in the name of a guest provided that reservation is not a rental for commercial purposes. Network Members are prohibited from reserving Vacation Periods for commercial purposes, including without limitation rental purposes, as described in Section 8.1.
• Owner Rental. Before a Network Member may rent the Network Member's Vacation Period, the Network Member must receive a reservation confirmation for the Network Member's Vacation Period at the Network Member’s Home Resort.
• [External Exchanges] With the exception of Vacation Periods reserved at the Home Resort, Network Members are prohibited from renting to a third party any accommodation reserved through the Network's exchange program, including accommodations of the External Exchange Program.

8.1 Personal Use; Commercial Purposes. Use of the Units and facilities associated with Network is limited solely to the personal use of Network Members, their guests, invitees, exchangers, and lessees and for recreational use by corporations or other similar business entities owning VOIs. Purchase of a VOI or use of Units and facilities associated with Network for commercial purposes including without limitation rental purposes, for contribution to or use in a different vacation ownership plan or vacation club (except as expressly permitted in the Network Documents), or for any purpose other than the personal use described above is prohibited. Violations of this Section may result in the suspension of a Network Member’s reservation and/or ability to make future reservations.

8.2 Network Member Rentals. A Network Member may reserve a Vacation Period at the Network Member’s Home Resort and rent it on the Network Member's own account. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations of the Resort Documents affecting occupancy, and the renting Network Member will be responsible for the acts or omissions of the Network Member's renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Network Member to use the Unit. Rental by a Network Member of Units reserved through Network (other than a Vacation Period reserved at the Network Member’s Home Resort) is prohibited.

 

[andremike]

Is that written In a foreign language? Makes zero sense...

 

[VacationForever]

Is that written In a foreign language? Makes zero sense...

Is English not your first language?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Is that written In a foreign language? Makes zero sense...

It's what people signed up for when they bought into the system.
My non-legal interpretation is:
- No renting SOs
- Only rent HomeResort ownership during the HomeResort period.
- Running a Rental Business is not allowed even as a HomeResort ownership as that would be considered a Commercial business.

 

[andremike]

What is a home resort period? Like platinum or gold weeks?

 

[DavidnRobin]

What is a home resort period? Like platinum or gold weeks?

At 8-12 months in this instance (VSN Mandatory VOIs) within the season owned. Not a StarOption reservation.

This text was from the WKORV Owner's Handbook (on the Vistana dashboard) - WKORV is a VSN Mandatory resort, Voluntary resorts other than Flex programs may (likely) have different rules.

 

[WorldT]

What is a home resort period? Like platinum or gold weeks?

As an owner at a particular Vistana resort, you get to be able to book a week (or more depending on what you own) before other people who do not own there. As stated above, this is usually 12-8 months before the check in date. You can still book after that but you may not find availability because other Vistana owners may have come in and picked up any weeks that were left after 8 months.
Any week you book at that resort you own is the only thing you can rent.
As also stated before, it is usually not a good plan to buy a timeshare with the primary intent of renting. Renting should be a back up plan.

 

[tstiv1996]

I may be piling on, but wanted to add and also seek advice if there is any... I bought SVV a few years ago. I dont have any big regrets. We have had 2 use years yield 18 nights in maui and Princeville (Including ocean front units, net averaging right around $300/per night including initial investment, broker fees, and annual MF's. Id call that pretty good... however in the long run, my EOY MF at SVV is as much as a similar SO Yield Annual MF at WKV. It's got me itching to make a trade, up the investment and buy WKV. As many have said, its upfront cash vs long term benefit here... The Thought of spending close to the same annual fee and getting my SO's every year vs EOY is enticing.... Its a dangerous game we play...

As far as selling one for another... anyone have any experience here? thoughts on buying two cheaper WKV units to meet 81k SO? Or would anyone recommend to stear clear of that and buy 1 unit?

 

[byeloe]

I may be piling on, but wanted to add and also seek advice if there is any... I bought SVV a few years ago. I dont have any big regrets. We have had 2 use years yield 18 nights in maui and Princeville (Including ocean front units, net averaging right around $300/per night including initial investment, broker fees, and annual MF's. Id call that pretty good... however in the long run, my EOY MF at SVV is as much as a similar SO Yield Annual MF at WKV. It's got me itching to make a trade, up the investment and buy WKV. As many have said, its upfront cash vs long term benefit here... The Thought of spending close to the same annual fee and getting my SO's every year vs EOY is enticing.... Its a dangerous game we play...

As far as selling one for another... anyone have any experience here? thoughts on buying two cheaper WKV units to meet 81k SO? Or would anyone recommend to stear clear of that and buy 1 unit?

We sold 2 81k dedicated 2BD at SVV and purchased a 1BD small and 1BD premium at WKV.

I would only buy platinum+ units at WKV

 

[tomvc]

I may be piling on, but wanted to add and also seek advice if there is any... I bought SVV a few years ago. I dont have any big regrets. We have had 2 use years yield 18 nights in maui and Princeville (Including ocean front units, net averaging right around $300/per night including initial investment, broker fees, and annual MF's. Id call that pretty good... however in the long run, my EOY MF at SVV is as much as a similar SO Yield Annual MF at WKV. It's got me itching to make a trade, up the investment and buy WKV. As many have said, its upfront cash vs long term benefit here... The Thought of spending close to the same annual fee and getting my SO's every year vs EOY is enticing.... Its a dangerous game we play...

As far as selling one for another... anyone have any experience here? thoughts on buying two cheaper WKV units to meet 81k SO? Or would anyone recommend to stear clear of that and buy 1 unit?

Keep your SVV-Bella if you bought it before the cutoff and it is enrolled in Abound. You can rent Abound points for added flexibility or exchange M-M or M-V without exchange fees.