Where would I look to exchange my unit to another location Permanently

[dioxide45]

I keep seeing legal advice like this being offered to timeshare owners about "just walking away" as the worst that can allegedly happen is you might or might not get much of anything of a credit hit.

As if there's zero money owed and there's no way the resort will seek to collect in court. Indeed, if the only way for the resort to get its real estate (the timeshare) back is a judicial foreclosure, they'll have to seek both the foreclosure and their owed money via an attorney in a civil law court case.

Which means the defaulting timeshare owner might end up (or at least I can speculate that they might end up) with the following obligations:

a judgment for unpaid maintenance fees PLUS all late fees according to the bylaws PLUS attorney's fees. And, upon getting that judgment, PERHAPS the timeshare entity can't get anything because you haven't got a pot to blankety blank and you're judgment proof or PERHAPS they'll seek to collect your judgment via seizing your bank accounts or even foreclosing on your home.

If you don't pay your $10,000 balance credit card, is the "worst that can happen" that you might maybe possibly get a credit hit?

How 'bout if a person or bank lends you money under a written contract?

I'm sure, fido, that you and others are trying to be helpful, but I wonder if that "just walk away" advice is indeed helpful.

It would be great if this website had stories from people who "just walked away" to see what the aftermath may have been.

It also depends if a state is considered a recourse state. In some states, after foreclosure the entity doesn't have any recourse to obtain a deficiency judgement. They take the timeshare back and that is all they can get. They can't go after past due fees. Their only recourse is to take the timeshare deed back.

Credit cards are different. They are not secured debt like a timeshare. Thus the lender will sue to obtain a judgement to collect. Then they can use that judgement to try and collect through wage garnishment and other means.

In the case of a timeshare foreclosure, it would be a two step process in the case they have recourse to collect the unpaid debt. They would foreclose but then also have to obtain a deficiency judgement. We have no reported cases of deficiency judgements in the case of defaulting on maintenance fees alone. Also, deficiency judgements on timeshare loans only seemed to have been reported if the timeshare owner worked with some third party exit company. Kind of like punishing the owner for utilizing these exit services.

There is a thread that tracks the "walk away" owners from here and also those that discussed it in Facebook groups.

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com

 

[andre10056]

It also depends if a state is considered a recourse state. In some states, after foreclosure the entity doesn't have any recourse to obtain a deficiency judgement. They take the timeshare back and that is all they can get. They can't go after past due fees. Their only recourse is to take the timeshare deed back.

Credit cards are different. They are not secured debt like a timeshare. Thus the lender will sue to obtain a judgement to collect. Then they can use that judgement to try and collect through wage garnishment and other means.

In the case of a timeshare foreclosure, it would be a two step process in the case they have recourse to collect the unpaid debt. They would foreclose but then also have to obtain a deficiency judgement. We have no reported cases of deficiency judgements in the case of defaulting on maintenance fees alone. Also, deficiency judgements on timeshare loans only seemed to have been reported if the timeshare owner worked with some third party exit company. Kind of like punishing the owner for utilizing these exit services.

There is a thread that tracks the "walk away" owners from here and also those that discussed it in Facebook groups.

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com

It seems to me that EVERY judicial foreclosure action in virtually all states (see below for two exceptions) must precisely set out what is unpaid. If not, what's the justification for the timeshare entities' foreclosure? Can they say "we want to foreclose" without simultaneously in the same case saying "money is unpaid"? Can they foreclose on a homeowner if they're paid up on their mortgage?

In Florida and I think South Carolina (that's two of fifty states plus DC), there is indeed a route by which the timeshare entity must foreclose without seeking a deficiency judgment. That's a "nonjudicial" foreclosure.

But the latter requires that the defaulting timeshare owner not utter a peep in protest contesting the foreclosure. As soon as he/she does, it becomes a full blown judicial foreclosure court case and you better believe a deficiency judgment will be sought.

 

[dioxide45]

But the latter requires that the defaulting timeshare owner not utter a peep in protest contesting the foreclosure. As soon as he/she does, it becomes a full blown judicial foreclosure court case and you better believe a deficiency judgment will be sought.

Most people who go through timeshare foreclosure simply never respond to the notices. Thus I suspect very few go through "full blown judicial foreclosure". A high percentage that start out as non judicial stay that way through foreclosure.

 

[andre10056]

We have no reported cases of deficiency judgements in the case of defaulting on maintenance fees alone.

If that's true, and the timeshare entities never seek to collect a deficiency judgment for "only" unpaid maintenance fees, I'd like to understand their questionable logic in terms of their refusing to do deed buybacks.

Here are their choices:

Alternative 1
--------------
Accept a deedback and:

-maintenance fees and late fees paid up to date
-no attorney involvement so they don't have to pay attorney's fees

Alternative 2
--------------

Refuse to accept a deedback:

-maintenance fees unpaid for perhaps years in the past
-late fees unpaid for perhaps years in the past
-must pay attorney's fees in the thousands of dollars

And yet, the timeshare entities choose alternative 2 without seeking to thereafter collect???!!! That's about the most stupid decision ever made!

 

[andre10056]

Most people who go through timeshare foreclosure simply never respond to the notices. Thus I suspect very few go through "full blown judicial foreclosure". A high percentage that start out as non judicial stay that way through foreclosure.

Nonjudicial foreclosure for timeshares is available only in Florida and South Carolina, not anywhere else that I know of. The only way to get the property back in any other state is via judicial foreclosure.

 

[vacationtime1]

Here in California, we have both judicial foreclosures and non-judicial foreclosures. They are completely different.

A judicial foreclosure is a judicial procedure (duh!!!). It requires an attorney, a lawsuit, and it is not fast or cheap. Yes, one can get a deficiency judgment, but one would be insane to file a judicial foreclosure action for a few thousand of overdue MF's. Even if the matter proceeded to judgment (which can take years), the HOA doesn't recover the property until conclusion and then must still collect the few thousand dollars.

A non-judicial foreclosure is relatively quick and easy. The HOA can file a couple of notices with the relevant County Clerk, and assuming no opposition, can recover title in as few as 110 days. But deficiency judgments are not available.

 

[vacationtime1]

If that's true, and the timeshare entities never seek to collect a deficiency judgment for "only" unpaid maintenance fees, I'd like to understand their questionable logic in terms of their refusing to do deed buybacks.

Here are their choices:

Alternative 1
--------------
-maintenance fees and late fees paid up to date
-no attorney involvement so they don't have to pay attorney's fees

Alternative 2
--------------
-maintenance fees unpaid for perhaps years in the past
-late fees unpaid for perhaps years in the past
-must pay attorney's fees in the thousands of dollars

And yet, the timeshare entities choose alternative 2???!!! That's about the most stupid decision ever made!

Agreed.

The only basis for what they do is their hope that the owner will eventually pay.

 

[andre10056]

Here in California, we have both judicial foreclosures and non-judicial foreclosures. They are completely different.

A judicial foreclosure is a judicial procedure (duh!!!). It requires an attorney, a lawsuit, and it is not fast or cheap. Yes, one can get a deficiency judgment, but one would be insane to file a judicial foreclosure action for a few thousand of overdue MF's. Even if the matter proceeded to judgment (which can take years), the HOA doesn't recover the property until conclusion and then must still collect the few thousand dollars.

A non-judicial foreclosure is relatively quick and easy. The HOA can file a couple of notices with the relevant County Clerk, and assuming no opposition, can recover title in as few as 110 days. But deficiency judgments are not available.

It sounds like California, then, is the third jurisdiction which allows nonjudicial foreclosure. That's 3 of 50 plus DC.

But I will disagree that the case may take years. A collection action is pretty simple and, therefore, quick.

 

[andre10056]

Here in California, we have both judicial foreclosures and non-judicial foreclosures. They are completely different.

A judicial foreclosure is a judicial procedure (duh!!!). It requires an attorney, a lawsuit, and it is not fast or cheap. Yes, one can get a deficiency judgment, but one would be insane to file a judicial foreclosure action for a few thousand of overdue MF's. Even if the matter proceeded to judgment (which can take years), the HOA doesn't recover the property until conclusion and then must still collect the few thousand dollars.

A non-judicial foreclosure is relatively quick and easy. The HOA can file a couple of notices with the relevant County Clerk, and assuming no opposition, can recover title in as few as 110 days. But deficiency judgments are not available.

Here's a link to Grammarhero's amazing work, perhaps five years old now, which pertains to each state's timeshare laws involving foreclosure (judicial, non-judicial) and, yes, California's laws are a breath of fresh air for timeshare owners.

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

@TUGBrian @DeniseM @CalGalTraveler take a look. This weekend, I’m creating a spreadsheet with official links to states’ timeshare laws, as well as their statuses as to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures. In the meantime, I will just keep adding notes. * Legal Disclaimer: This list...

tugbbs.com

 

[dioxide45]

Here's a link to Grammarhero's amazing work, perhaps a five years old now, which pertains to each state's timeshare laws involving foreclosure (judicial, non-judicial) and, yes, California's laws are a breath of fresh air for timeshare owners.

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

@TUGBrian @DeniseM @CalGalTraveler take a look. This weekend, I’m creating a spreadsheet with official links to states’ timeshare laws, as well as their statuses as to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures. In the meantime, I will just keep adding notes. * Legal Disclaimer: This list...

tugbbs.com

It also looks like there are other states than just the two you mentioned and CA that allow for non-judicial or anti-deficiency foreclosure.

 

[andre10056]

It also looks like there are other states than just the two you mentioned and CA that allow for non-judicial or anti-deficiency foreclosure.

Yes it appears so. A few anyway. So make sure you only buy in the appropriate states.

The vast majority do indeed allow for deficiency judgments, either along with or after the foreclosure action.

As with any kind of litigation, judgment proof people won't be pursued.

And that still doesn't explain why timeshare entities aren't more willing to do deed buybacks, particularly since they allegedly never seek to collect their maintenance fee deficiency judgments.

 

[tdaaviation]

Vacation 911, any idea of the time frame for Horizon to actually get back to me about the. form I filled out for a Deed Back for Holidays Hills in Branson?

 

[tdaaviation]

Just received my paperwork from Holiday Hills Vacation for the Deed Quit Transfers for our TS in Branson. Has anyone used this process for giving away their TS and has an actual time Frame for completion. I keep hearing all kinds of nightmares.
Thx
T

 

[alwysonvac]

Just received my paperwork from Holiday Hills Vacation for the Deed Quit Transfers for our TS in Branson. Has anyone used this process for giving away their TS and has an actual time Frame for completion. I keep hearing all kinds of nightmares.
Thx
T

Take a look at the Holiday Inn deedback thread for the latest update

Horizons a Holiday Inn Club Vacations Deedback information - give your HICV timeshare back

Oct 2023 edit: Users have been reporting that HICV is now assessing a $1200 fee per ownership to surrender back starting in late 2023. Jan 2022 edit: Users have been reporting that HICV is now assessing a $500 fee per ownership to surrender back starting in late 2022. This program was...

tugbbs.com

 

[vacationtime1]

Yes it appears so. A few anyway. So make sure you only buy in the appropriate states.

The vast majority do indeed allow for deficiency judgments, either along with or after the foreclosure action.

As with any kind of litigation, judgment proof people won't be pursued.

And that still doesn't explain why timeshare entities aren't more willing to do deed buybacks, particularly since they allegedly never seek to collect their maintenance fee deficiency judgments.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Have you (or has anyone here) ever heard of a deficiency judgment on a timeshare following a judicial foreclosure?

 

[andre10056]

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Have you (or has anyone here) ever heard of a deficiency judgment on a timeshare following a judicial foreclosure?

Well. I would think, if it's a judicial foreclosure in which a judge has to render a decision, that someone had to establish that they had not been paid. And, if the judge agrees, he would render the appropriate judgement. Otherwise, if the plaintiff had not met his burden of proof that he was owed money, no judge would order the foreclosure.

Therefore, some deficiency judgement would certainly exist, having arisen in a judicial foreclosure action.

What you're apparently asking is whether or not anyone has been pursued for such deficiency judgment.

And, to the extent that others claim that is a rarity, my point in my post that you cited, was "that still doesn't explain why timeshare entities aren't more willing to do deed buybacks, particularly since they allegedly never seek to collect their maintenance fee deficiency judgments".

So that remains a question for me. They allegedly never go after deficiencies, but at the same time refuse to accept deed buybacks which would have allowed them to avoid the time and expense (attorneys, etc.) of the judicial foreclosure. Seems illogical to me. Or maybe they just think the judicial foreclosure process is "fun".

 

[dioxide45]

Well. I would think, if it's a judicial foreclosure in which a judge has to render a decision, that someone had to establish that they had not been paid. And, if the judge agrees, he would render the appropriate judgement. Otherwise, if the plaintiff had not met his burden of proof that he was owed money, no judge would order the foreclosure.

Therefore, some deficiency judgement would certainly exist, having arisen in a judicial foreclosure action.

What you're apparently asking is whether or not anyone has been pursued for such deficiency judgment.

And, to the extent that others claim that is a rarity, my point in my post that you cited, was "that still doesn't explain why timeshare entities aren't more willing to do deed buybacks, particularly since they allegedly never seek to collect their maintenance fee deficiency judgments".

So that remains a question for me. They allegedly never go after deficiencies, but at the same time refuse to accept deed buybacks which would have allowed them to avoid the time and expense (attorneys, etc.) of the judicial foreclosure. Seems illogical to me. Or maybe they just think the judicial foreclosure process is "fun".

They want to make it as hard on the timeshare owner as possible. Hope is they will continue to pay out of fear they will go through foreclosure or get a credit hit. Not offering deed backs is a deterrent to people simply abandoning the timeshare. People are likely to just stick around and keep paying the fees.

 

[amycurl]

Wow...this thread got a bit highjacked. But back to @tdaaviation's question....Glad that you got the paperwork. I'm not sure what "nightmares" you've heard, but I can't imagine what would go wrong if you're dealing directly with the resort to facilitate the deed back. Go ahead and fill out the paperwork, send it back in the manner specified, and then be patient. And maybe periodically follow-up with them after a few weeks if you've not heard anything (and/or check with the Register of Deeds in the county where the timeshare is registered to see if the change has gone through.)