What do I not get if I buy Marriott resale

[m61376]

There hasn't been a full blown discussion on this for awhile now .... If you look back through previous posts, there have been many discussions as to the relative value of buying resale versus buying direct with the ability to trade for points.

While there are staunch supporters in both camps, the bottom line is you have to decide which best fits your needs and do what is right for you. I do think that at least some of the staunchest supporters of the value of direct purchases and the ability to trade for points made their purchases in the early 2000's, at a time when they may have received half a million incentive points per week- a far cry from the relatively paltry 150,000 points being offered over the past 2 years or so. Far fewer incentive points, coupled with more points being needed for those dream trips, ever increasing MF's and the downturn in prices with the current economic crisis would give at least some of the developer-purchase supporters cause for pause. Of course, if Marriott ups the ante to encourage sales, the value of the "sign on bonus," so to speak, may partially offset the increased cost and may be worth spending the extra money upfront to you.

For higher end weeks the price difference may be significantly more than $10,000, and I know that I could not justify paying that much more for 150,000 points and the privilege of trading my unit for 110,000 points every other year at a cost of $1350 for next year's trade, for example. I would be better off buying 100,000 points every year from Marriott and retaining use of the unit I paid big bucks up front to use. But that's me.

 

[Latravel]

If all the salesperson offers you is 150,000 points, I would immediately walk away. I agree - it would not be worth the price differential.

When I purchased Shadow Ridge just 6 months ago in July, I received hundreds of thousands of points. They made it worth my time to talk with them and they made a sale. We bought 2 units from them and are using the points we received to go on a 2 week trip to Rome, Venice and Capri. Honestly, if I didn't have those points, I probably wouldn't have taken the trip.

 

[m61376]

Heidi-
I think Marriott sweetens the pot, so to speak, when they need to. Several years ago when Brian, Dave and several others bought they were introducing several new properties and offered high point incentives and, I agree with you, getting half a million points up front does have value and might be worth considering paying a $10,000 difference in that case. Two years ago the offer was paltry in comparison, and the only way to get over 150K in points was to accept their high financing and the price difference was more than $10,000 to boot. For me, at least, it just wasn't worth it.

Fast forward 2 years and it would cost me ~$1350 for 110,000 points, along with giving up the use of my week. With the new travel package costs, that one week trip would cost me 3 trade-for-points, or $4000 in MF's alone (assuming the MF's stayed stable over the next several years, which of course they won't)+ the "lost opportunity costs" of my much higher initial investment from the developer (figure another $2000 per year)- so that wonderful "free" week that I can get in the future will cost me about $10,000 between MF's, trade for points fees and what I would be losing per week if I had kept my purchase investment in a 5% bank cd instead of buying.

Admittedly, given the cost of first class tickets and hotel rack rates, an argument can be made that it is still worthwhile. However, I "survived" many overseas trips in measly coach accommodations and my family was none the worse for wear. We stayed at many fabulous hotels over the years in top European cities, catching a good deal here or there, and it cost a lot less than 10K a couple for travel arrangements and hotel.

So, in my opinion, unless Marriott is offering close to half a million points per unit (I know you said you received hundreds of thousands of points, but you also bought 2 units), to come close to covering the initial cost difference (and I am not sure what the "break even" point would be under the new point structure), the price difference is too great to make sense to me.

And- going forward- after January 15th- do you still think trading for points will be worthwhile financially?

 

[Stefa]

We...are using the points we received to go on a 2 week trip to Rome, Venice and Capri. Honestly, if I didn't have those points, I probably wouldn't have taken the trip.

This about sums up the points debate for me. One of the arguments for buying a timeshare in the first place is that it forces you to take a vacation every year. In this case, buying from the developer forces Heidi to take a dream vacation that she would otherwise not have taken. Obviously, it is worth it to her.

The question you need to answer is whether it would be worth it to you. For me, the answer is "no," so I only buy resale. I'd rather take a cheaper trip and have the extra cash for future vacations.

 

[KathyPet]

We have purchased three Marriott timeshares all directly from Marriott. We have since sold one of them. Our first was in 1994 (MMC). In the past I have always been a big proponent of purchasing direct due to the points option and we have had some great trips. However we have also seen major points devaluation twice now and can no longer count on our points to get us the trips we enjoyed in the past. For that reason I can no longer recommend that someone purchase direct. Once you spend the bonus points that you get as a initial incentive you will find that the points you get for trading in your unit every other year don't get you much in the way of a vacation when you consider that you have your maintenace fee to pay plus the $104 they charge you for trading in for points.

 

[Latravel]

"The question you need to answer is whether it would be worth it to you. For me, the answer is "no," so I only buy resale. I'd rather take a cheaper trip and have the extra cash for future vacations."

That really is the bottom line. The great part of this situation is the fact there are 2 options open to people and each person should pick which is right for their family. Sometimes, people stress one option as the only option and I believe that may do a dis-service to some families who could benefit from the points option.

 

[bogey21]

I bought a Marriott Monarch (Fixed) Week resale on HHI years ago. I was able to use it for points; was able to get points every year; Marriott rented it for me; Marriott sold it for me. I saw absolutely no difference than had I bought it from Marriott. Possibly Monarch is different being Marriott's entre into timesharing. Don't know. But I do know how I was able to use the Week

George

 

[SueDonJ]

"The question you need to answer is whether it would be worth it to you. For me, the answer is "no," so I only buy resale. I'd rather take a cheaper trip and have the extra cash for future vacations."

That really is the bottom line. The great part of this situation is the fact there are 2 options open to people and each person should pick which is right for their family. Sometimes, people stress one option as the only option and I believe that may do a dis-service to some families who could benefit from the points option.

Like Latravel, we purchased from the developer. I agree with what she has said, and also with the folks who say that it is important to completely understand all of your buying options prior to purchasing. The price difference between developer-direct and the resale market is substantial and it would most likely be upsetting to find out about a resale market after a purchase. BUT if you know the differences in advance and still purchase from the developer because it works for you, then your decision is an informed one. No one should have a problem with that.

IMO, the only wrong purchase decision is the one that strains a buyer's realistic budget, no matter how the purchase is made or the amount available in the budget.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

I bought a Marriott Monarch (Fixed) Week resale on HHI years ago. I was able to use it for points; was able to get points every year...

Did you buy resale from Marriott??? If not, this does not seems to be a normal situation. But I'm not sure if there are exceptions on these older resorts that did not start a Marriott TS.

 

[Graceville]

buy back

A Marriott sales person told me last month that Marriott would buy back a timeshare at a % of the current list price, but not for a timeshare that was purchased resale. (I think the % was 40%.)

 

[Dave M]

You received incorrect info. Marriott doesn't buy back timeshares. What Marriott will do is to try to sell your timeshare for you if your resort is sold out and if Marriott has a need for weeks at your resort for resale purposes. Then you get on a list and Marriott will sell timeshares in the order they were added to the list. It might take a few months or it might take five years for yours to sell. When it does, Marriott takes a 40% commission, based on Marriott's normal selling price, and you get the rest.

 

[bogey21]

Did you buy resale from Marriott??? If not, this does not seems to be a normal situation. But I'm not sure if there are exceptions on these older resorts that did not start a Marriott TS.

I bought it through a local HHI Real Estate company. There may be (have been) different rules for Monarch. I don't know. It was about 8-10 years ago.

George

 

[Icarus]

No one should have a problem with that.

I don't think anybody does. Usually the math is where the problem is.

-David

 

[dfjkl]

"the savings from buying resale is MUCH greater"
I just explained how you get the extra money you paid back to you but not everyone wants to pay the cost up front. In my humble opinion, buying resale is not an option. What happens if Marriott changes the program, as they seem to do, to penalize resale owners/add benefits to developer purchases (whatever you want to call it)? Then what? What's to say they won't make more changes? Resale units already have an "R" next to their number in the system. Also, see my first paragraph.

If they continue to penalize resales or attempt to, then they are guilty of false advertising. Their whole sales pitch is you are buying "property" and if you don't want it anymore, just "sell it." Well...to make it worth anything on a sale, it has to have some utility.

 

[Latravel]

I think it's the opposite. They keep saying in presentations that if you buy resale, you're not a "real" Marriott owner, whatever that means.

Marriott will do whatever is best for Marriott as it is a business, plain and simple. If it is a business advantage to make every purchase equal, they will. If it makes business sense to limit one group and not others, they will. They have to because we all depend on them being a financially viable company.

 

[m61376]

I think it's the opposite. They keep saying in presentations that if you buy resale, you're not a "real" Marriott owner, whatever that means.

I know at least when I pressed them on that, they basically responded because you can't take full advantage of all the benefits of timeshare ownership, because you can't trade your unit in for points every other year for fabulous world vacations ("you can have a fabulous world trip once every four years for simply trading in your week twice for points...and think about the value of that...."). The salespeople I spoke with presented it not as a little side benefit, but as an integral part of the Marriott ownership package.

I also heard about the wonderful help I'd get from a vacation adviser if I bought through them.

 

[pwrshift]

Vacation needs change over time...

When you have small kids timesharing can't be beat...you need extra room, kitchen facilities, lower vacation costs, etc. But when the kids grow up and you become an empty nester your vacation needs and wants can change dramatically as the kids go on with their own lives.

I'm an empty nester now ... often travel alone where staying in a 2 bdrm suite is wasteful. Besides, I'm at the stage in life that it's nice to call room service for breakfast, valet parking, maid service and have your beds made twice a day, etc.

That's where points have come into play for me ... like most of you, and especially as a single parent, the vacations centred around the kids when they were small, but now my vacations centre around me most of the time.

Major level hotels, unlike most timeshares, are right smack in the middle of world class cities that I only saw on TV while raising kids ... and now walking out onto the Champs Elysees in Paris or onto Westminster Bridge in London or down Via Veneta in Rome is such a treat I never got to experience as a 'working' parent. The MR points provided that for me. Flying business class for personal flights was only a dream before Marriott made it a reality.

So, over the years, your vacation needs will change, sometimes dramatically. I still use my lockoffs because it extends my holiday time when I don't need the 2 bdrm space for only $75. We make good use of the MR program now - as my kids are adults they've also seen the world on my points with honeymoons and special occasions.

My last TS purchase was 2002 and another one in 2001 -- each one was pre-construction and all things considered came with a little more than half a million points each for well less than $40,000 total. The million points became my MR bank account for great trips as I now had 6 weeks over time and could trade 2 of them for 220,000 MR pts a year and build 440,000 pts as replenishment points for a really nice 'hotel' trip EOY.

Worked for me, but I may be in a different stage of life from the rest of you. I do think when those resale buyers catch up with my stage in life they may wish they had purchased direct and had the full benefits of the MR program. To each his own.

The irony is that I bought my first 2 Marriotts directly before finding TUG and had already experienced the 'free' trips ... so when I came to TUG and met the point nay-sayers I found it hard to see 'the other side'. But it's interesting to see, after all these years, that both sides of the matter still flourish and, as before, the nay-sayers are still in the majority.

Brian

 

[capjak]

Developer versus Resale debated many times.

I believe from a financial point of view the difference is so great right now that you would need to get 660,000 points as an incentive (and I mean included not pay MF and get your 110,000 for your use year).

That would give the buyer 2 trips at a top tier resort/hotel.

The flexibility with converting to points I agree is a nice option to have in those years that you don't want to travel to a TS location.

I believe Marriott and Starwood are the two systems where you can turn in points and get both FF miles and Hotel Certificates which makes them IMO more valuable reward systems.

 

[m61376]

Brian-
Even though I guess I fall into the naysayer group so to speak I agree that 7 or 8 years ago the values were definitely there. Being given enough points for 2 wonderful trips or a super 2 week trip for an under 20K Platinum week purchase is something certainly worth considering, and personally would have been appealing if those same offers held true today.

However, given that the price difference for most prime Platinum weeks is in excess of 10K, and in many cases much more than that, and Marriott at this point hasn't even been offering enough points incentive for a single week trip, it becomes personally harder to justify such a purchase.

With recent sluggish sales they seem to be upping the ante slightly, but I don't think enough to offset the recent point devaluation. The entire marketplace is a bit topsy turvy now anyway and perhaps when they start to introduce new resorts beginning with Cancun later in the year they will once again offer great point incentives to purchase pre-construction. Time will tell.

 

[Latravel]

m61376-
I couldn't agree with you more. Right now,there doesn't seem to be enough incentives (whether points or benefits) to justify the high price difference. If sales slow down enough, they will offer more incentives. There's no other way around it. Just like department stores offering 75% off to spur sales, Marriott will have to do something similar. That being said, when I was at Timber Lodge a couple of weeks ago, they said sales were fine and they sold 4 units just that day alone.

Like you said, time will tell, but I am excited to see what they come up with.

 

[merlot94]

For those who are curious, we were offered !50,000 incentive points for a Orlando Grande Vista 3BR platinum week purchase (in addition to applying our $2,000 Encore package cost to the purchase) if we purchased during our Encore stay. Based on everything I've read on TUG and where I see the resale prices, we passed up the option.

Now I'm researching the resale market. Trying to find answers to questions like where should I buy to have good trading power (we wouldn't plan to go to the same place every year)--the Marriott sales rep was pushing Orlando Grande Vista hard; what are the advantages of lock-off units (or more accurately, are there any disadvantages); how should I go about a resale transaction to ensure I'm not getting had (clean title, avoiding hidden fees, etc).

Looking forward to reading more TUG posts, where there seems to be lots of useful info.

Jonathan

 

[jimf41]

If you are thinking of buying developer and points are a benefit to you then you should look into buying direct from the Corporate office. They usually offer more and in the past have allowed me to put the entire purchase on my premier card for even more points.

 

[capjak]

For those who are curious, we were offered !50,000 incentive points for a Orlando Grande Vista 3BR platinum week purchase (in addition to applying our $2,000 Encore package cost to the purchase) if we purchased during our Encore stay. Based on everything I've read on TUG and where I see the resale prices, we passed up the option.

Now I'm researching the resale market. Trying to find answers to questions like where should I buy to have good trading power (we wouldn't plan to go to the same place every year)--the Marriott sales rep was pushing Orlando Grande Vista hard; what are the advantages of lock-off units (or more accurately, are there any disadvantages); how should I go about a resale transaction to ensure I'm not getting had (clean title, avoiding hidden fees, etc).

Looking forward to reading more TUG posts, where there seems to be lots of useful info.

Jonathan

That is not nearly enough incentive point to make it worthwhile to purchase direct.

I would purchase a platinum week and I would buy a lock-off. Lock-offs allow you to get 2 weeks or more (with an AC) via splitting a 3 bedroom into a 2 bedroom and a studio. I would also reccomend purchasing somewhere you do not mind going every other year and the cost of getting to your destination will be within your budget for years to come. You may also want to consider an Every Other Year (EOY) purchase and I would not limit your search to Marriott.

 

[Dean]

Count me in the group that feels that buying retail to get points is rarely, if ever, a good choice. Certainly there are some specialty situations where one can generate value (big trips to expensive places like London and Paris). There are a couple of other differences in resale though Marriott has had selective enforcement. These include the ability to resale through Marriott and to do equity upgrades. I know some have done both in the past that bought resale but many have been told no as well. IMO it still doesn't matter as those are not important options but it is somewhat of a difference between resale and retail.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Here's another way I look at it....

Someone buys from a developer and pays say ~$10K more. But the incentive points for that purchase allow for trip(s) in the upcoming years that may have a value of up to $11K or so (usually when considering retail prices).

Can this really be considered a positive of buying from the developer -- when you have to put this money "up front" with the hope of getting a deal for your $10k? (and with a very likely chance that you will get less value...)