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What do I not get if I buy Marriott resale
- Thread starter jgirvine
- Start date
Removed - too late
Basically if you buy Marriott resale (i.e. not from Marriott), then you will not have the ability to trade your week back to Marriott for Reward points.
In most all cases the savings from buying resale greatly outweighs the increase cost when buying from Marriott. And now Marriott Reward points are being devalued....
No other significant difference (at this point), but who knows what the future holds?
In most all cases the savings from buying resale greatly outweighs the increase cost when buying from Marriott. And now Marriott Reward points are being devalued....
No other significant difference (at this point), but who knows what the future holds?
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- Resorts Owned
- Marriott Manor Club - 3 weeks platinum, 2 weeks at Marriott Beachplace Towers, and 1 week at Marriott Canyon Villas
The problem is that direct purchase ownership has fixed rates of points you can get for turning in your week ... usually 100k to 120k for platinum weeks...and there's a $104 fee to do it. The better hotels in the Marriott inventory get more than 100k pts for a week's stay in a hotel room, so it's often not a good exchange. Marriott sells limited points for $0.0125 each, so if you could buy 110k points it would cost you $1375...so that's the break even value to do your calculations on. Sometimes it's better to earn points by paying cash rather than using points for stays, but it depends on the daily rates.
When Marriott changes the rewards plan, as they are doing on Jan15th, it will take more MR points to stay at these hotels, yet the number of points for trading your week stay the same ... while annual increases in maintenance make those points more expensive! A double whammy that I hope Marriott will address in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.
Having said that, my family has had some wonderful trips using points and I always trade 2 of my lower cost weeks in every year to replenish the points we've used, taking a 'memory trip' reward every other year.
Brian
When Marriott changes the rewards plan, as they are doing on Jan15th, it will take more MR points to stay at these hotels, yet the number of points for trading your week stay the same ... while annual increases in maintenance make those points more expensive! A double whammy that I hope Marriott will address in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.
Having said that, my family has had some wonderful trips using points and I always trade 2 of my lower cost weeks in every year to replenish the points we've used, taking a 'memory trip' reward every other year.
Brian
Latravel
TUG Member
Though some will say the ONLY difference is the ability to trade in your unit for points, this may be of value to you. It was to my family so we bought from Marriott. The difference in price between resale and developer was made up with one trip to Europe. You may want to do some research to see if the program is something of interest to you.
Heidi,
Understand that I'm not doubting you a bit.... Can you provide additional information on this "one trip to Europe" and how it made up for the difference. I'm wondering if additional perks or sweeteners are involved. If so, we should be mentioning those in the "advantages" of buying from Marriott, because I assume that they could be significant... Thanks
Latravel
TUG Member
There are so many examples on this board where people use points for amazing first class trips around the world. Currently, there are some examples in Brians post about his Paris trip.
I won't repeat again here, but in summary, when you purchase from Marriott you should get a few hundred thousand points as an incentive. These points can get you a trip worth thousands of dollars, which should make up for the difference in price between buying from the developer and resale. This is why people post that points are a major selling point in Marriott timeshare presentations. My one trip to Italy this June alone is worth about the same price as the cost difference between Marriott and resale. Basically, I broke even and the best part of the deal is I can do this over and over again, IF I CHOOSE. Resale buyers cannot.
Some people only want to use their timeshare year after year and that's it. If that is the case for you, you should buy resale - you won't have the need for other travel and buying from Marriott is a waste of money.
On the other hand, if you may want to travel where there are no or few timeshares (Paris, London), being able to trade your unit for points for hotel stays adds a whole other dimension and flexibility to timeshare ownership. It's one of the major benefits of buying a timeshare from a large hotel chain.
You have to find the best option for you and your family that fits your travel requirements. To say only one option is best (resale) is completely incorrect and short-sighted.
I won't repeat again here, but in summary, when you purchase from Marriott you should get a few hundred thousand points as an incentive. These points can get you a trip worth thousands of dollars, which should make up for the difference in price between buying from the developer and resale. This is why people post that points are a major selling point in Marriott timeshare presentations. My one trip to Italy this June alone is worth about the same price as the cost difference between Marriott and resale. Basically, I broke even and the best part of the deal is I can do this over and over again, IF I CHOOSE. Resale buyers cannot.
Some people only want to use their timeshare year after year and that's it. If that is the case for you, you should buy resale - you won't have the need for other travel and buying from Marriott is a waste of money.
On the other hand, if you may want to travel where there are no or few timeshares (Paris, London), being able to trade your unit for points for hotel stays adds a whole other dimension and flexibility to timeshare ownership. It's one of the major benefits of buying a timeshare from a large hotel chain.
You have to find the best option for you and your family that fits your travel requirements. To say only one option is best (resale) is completely incorrect and short-sighted.
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Bill4728
Moderator
There was a time a while ago when resale in Marriott were about $10,000 less than most Marriott direct pricing. For that difference in price, if you made really good use of your MR pts you might be able to make a case for buying direct.
IMHO, that is no longer the case.
- Marriott direct prices seem to have increased even in the face of the economy.
- Resale prices are way down and without Marriott using ROFR, you can get some huge bargains buying resale
- The changes to the MR program will (on Jan 15th) make the MR program much less attractive.
I can't suggest to any of my friends to even think about buying direct at this time.
IMHO, that is no longer the case.
- Marriott direct prices seem to have increased even in the face of the economy.
- Resale prices are way down and without Marriott using ROFR, you can get some huge bargains buying resale
- The changes to the MR program will (on Jan 15th) make the MR program much less attractive.
I can't suggest to any of my friends to even think about buying direct at this time.
Latravel
TUG Member
Bill4728 - I completely agree. The terms of this game has changed significantly in the past few months and they continue to change. Since points are a major selling point for buying directly from Marriott, I would not be surprised if new rules or benefits pop up to counter act the negative forces currently in place. It's a wait and see situation. But as you stated, people are still buying from Marriott, even in this bad economy (I witnessed it myself in TimberLodge) so people still value points. Maybe for those of us who love to travel, points help in taming the high cost of hotel stays.
I have to say I am surprised a pro-resale person has admitted it was ever, even remotely, a possibly ok idea to purchase direct.
I have to say I am surprised a pro-resale person has admitted it was ever, even remotely, a possibly ok idea to purchase direct.
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Heidi, Thanks for the reply. I know there are examples of great trips with points, but at issue is basically the costs to obtain those points.
Ha! Just as I guessed. So when someone asks about the advantage of buying from Marriott, not only should we include the "ability" to convert a week to Marriott reward points, but the incentive points also -- as this could be a significant BONUS.
It seems to simply boil down to: Are your bonus points worth the difference between the resale price and the Marriott price. It seems from reading a lot on TUG that normally the savings from buying resale is MUCH greater. I'm sure each case has to be weighed on its own merits...
Please explain the "over and over" part. Seems if you blew the bonus points on that first big trip, the glory is over. After that, for any week you exchange into points you have to consider the high Marriott MFs, plus the $100+ it costs to convert to points. I would say this is rarely a deal. Agree?
Agree on the flexibility, but I don't know if it's cost effective to do it this way. Maybe???
Agree.... It really depends on the difference in price between the Marriott purchase and the amount of the initial bonus you receive. I have a feeling that the buyer gets the worst of that deal 99.9% of the time.
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I would say that falling for the whole sales pitch -- lies and all -- along with being unaware of the better deals out there are some of the reasons. I would not agree that they are making the Marriott purchase because of the
"real" value of the points.
davidvel
TUG Member
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Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
I think these 2 paragraphs most succinctly and accurately sum up the great "direct" vs. "re-sale" debate:
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rosepointe
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We bought resale several years ago with a $10 000 savings. While one can get great trips with the points given to direct buy owners the amount of points needed to stay in high end hotels are very high and there are many other great travel options out there for better prices in the same hotels if you are into doing your own searches.
BTY We were just able to get $2500 airline tickets from Hawaii to Tahiti and a week in a 7 Cat hotel for the last of my Marriott credit card points. Have saved for years. However what cost me 230 000 points will be 350 000 or more after they devalue the point structure.
I guess it comes down to personal choice and what you feel safe with.
Sue
BTY We were just able to get $2500 airline tickets from Hawaii to Tahiti and a week in a 7 Cat hotel for the last of my Marriott credit card points. Have saved for years. However what cost me 230 000 points will be 350 000 or more after they devalue the point structure.
I guess it comes down to personal choice and what you feel safe with.
Sue
Latravel
TUG Member
"So when someone asks about the advantage of buying from Marriott, not only should we include the "ability" to convert a week to Marriott reward points, but the incentive points also -- as this could be a significant BONUS."
Why else would people buy from Marriott? Do you think we like to throw away our money? If it wasn't worth it, we wouldn't spend the extra money!
"Are your bonus points worth the difference between the resale price and the Marriott price."
It depends on what those bonus points can get you. In many cases posted here, the points get you trips worth as much or more than the difference in resale and the Marriott price. Also, see my above paragraph.
"the savings from buying resale is MUCH greater"
I just explained how you get the extra money you paid back to you but not everyone wants to pay the cost up front. In my humble opinion, buying resale is not an option. What happens if Marriott changes the program, as they seem to do, to penalize resale owners/add benefits to developer purchases (whatever you want to call it)? Then what? What's to say they won't make more changes? Resale units already have an "R" next to their number in the system. Also, see my first paragraph.
"Please explain the "over and over" part. Seems if you blew the bonus points on that first big trip, the glory is over."
I can trade in my unit every year for points, hence, the comment "over and over". The glory is not over, it is just the start. Otherwise, I would have to save for years (as the above poster stated) or buy points little by little. Trading my unit, occasionally, makes the process of getting points quicker. Plus, all I care about is making up the difference in price. Once I do that, the rest is like frosting on the cake - just a really nice perk.
"for any week you exchange into points you have to consider the high Marriott MFs, plus the $100+ it costs to convert to points. I would say this is rarely a deal. Agree?"
I don't agree. My Timber Lodge and Shadow Ridge units have relatively low MF's - both under $1000. Cost to convert to points is $104. If I trade my units in Shadow Ridge for 110,000 points, I could get a first class ticket to Europe with those points. How much do you think a first class ticket to Paris, for example, would cost? On the other hand, the total cost to me would be the around $800 MF and $104 trade fee. Seems like a good deal to me. But, if you don't ever want to go places where there are no timeshares and/or don't want to fly first class, the option to trade for points is a waste of your money. Also, see my first paragraph.
"I have a feeling that the buyer gets the worst of that deal 99.9% of the time."
Not true. Just do a search on the great trips people plan using points. If that is getting the worst of the deal, i'll take it. Most likely, some people don't want to pay the upfront costs to Marriott so they downplay the benefits of points. Also, see my first paragraph.
Thanks for the discussion! As someone posted earlier, the rules of the game have changed a lot so we'll see how the benefit/cost analysis plays out with the new changes.
Why else would people buy from Marriott? Do you think we like to throw away our money? If it wasn't worth it, we wouldn't spend the extra money!
"Are your bonus points worth the difference between the resale price and the Marriott price."
It depends on what those bonus points can get you. In many cases posted here, the points get you trips worth as much or more than the difference in resale and the Marriott price. Also, see my above paragraph.
"the savings from buying resale is MUCH greater"
I just explained how you get the extra money you paid back to you but not everyone wants to pay the cost up front. In my humble opinion, buying resale is not an option. What happens if Marriott changes the program, as they seem to do, to penalize resale owners/add benefits to developer purchases (whatever you want to call it)? Then what? What's to say they won't make more changes? Resale units already have an "R" next to their number in the system. Also, see my first paragraph.
"Please explain the "over and over" part. Seems if you blew the bonus points on that first big trip, the glory is over."
I can trade in my unit every year for points, hence, the comment "over and over". The glory is not over, it is just the start. Otherwise, I would have to save for years (as the above poster stated) or buy points little by little. Trading my unit, occasionally, makes the process of getting points quicker. Plus, all I care about is making up the difference in price. Once I do that, the rest is like frosting on the cake - just a really nice perk.
"for any week you exchange into points you have to consider the high Marriott MFs, plus the $100+ it costs to convert to points. I would say this is rarely a deal. Agree?"
I don't agree. My Timber Lodge and Shadow Ridge units have relatively low MF's - both under $1000. Cost to convert to points is $104. If I trade my units in Shadow Ridge for 110,000 points, I could get a first class ticket to Europe with those points. How much do you think a first class ticket to Paris, for example, would cost? On the other hand, the total cost to me would be the around $800 MF and $104 trade fee. Seems like a good deal to me. But, if you don't ever want to go places where there are no timeshares and/or don't want to fly first class, the option to trade for points is a waste of your money. Also, see my first paragraph.
"I have a feeling that the buyer gets the worst of that deal 99.9% of the time."
Not true. Just do a search on the great trips people plan using points. If that is getting the worst of the deal, i'll take it. Most likely, some people don't want to pay the upfront costs to Marriott so they downplay the benefits of points. Also, see my first paragraph.
Thanks for the discussion! As someone posted earlier, the rules of the game have changed a lot so we'll see how the benefit/cost analysis plays out with the new changes.
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I simply was trying to point out that in many discussion, this advantage was not stated. The OP asked: "What Bennies does one lose if they buy Marriott resale?", and the reply in the second post was:
I was just trying to state that this extra perk was not mentioned (by me either) in the initial response to the OP.
Per your other "value" comments, I hope we hear other opinions on the + and -. You have my interest now.... Thanks
Latravel
TUG Member
I guess people just tend to know about the incentive points after attending the presentations. But that is why TUG is here!
This discussion has been made so many times, with people even going so far as to question the intelligence (can you believe it? ) of people who purchased directly from Marriott. If you do a search in the forum, you will see more information than you may want to know. Have fun reading!
This discussion has been made so many times, with people even going so far as to question the intelligence (can you believe it?
) of people who purchased directly from Marriott. If you do a search in the forum, you will see more information than you may want to know. Have fun reading!
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2005
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In the past if someone got half a million or more incentive points and saved 10K or so MAYBE you could make an argument that it was worth it to buy from the developer.
Now? No way. Incentives are way down, points are devalued and the difference between resale and developer is probably somewhere in excess of $15K and up. Considering you can buy 100K points per year for $1300 why pay developer prices to be able to trade your unit in for points every other year? Your trade in cost is around $1000 plus you paid an additional 15K plus at the start.
Now? No way. Incentives are way down, points are devalued and the difference between resale and developer is probably somewhere in excess of $15K and up. Considering you can buy 100K points per year for $1300 why pay developer prices to be able to trade your unit in for points every other year? Your trade in cost is around $1000 plus you paid an additional 15K plus at the start.
Latravel
TUG Member
"In the past if someone got half a million or more incentive points and saved 10K or so MAYBE you could make an argument that it was worth it to buy from the developer."
Wait a minute! What is happening in the world? People who were so against developer purchases, and who argued endlessly about the waste of money, are now admitting it MAYBE could have been worth it? This is twice in one day.
Wait a minute! What is happening in the world? People who were so against developer purchases, and who argued endlessly about the waste of money, are now admitting it MAYBE could have been worth it?
This is twice in one day.
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"In the past if someone got half a million or more incentive points and saved 10K or so MAYBE you could make an argument that it was worth it to buy from the developer."
Wait a minute! What is happening in the world? People who were so against developer purchases, and who argued endlessly about the waste of money, are now admitting it MAYBE could have been worth it?
I said MAYBE you could make an argument. I wouldnt agree and it wouldnt make sense, but you could make it.
Latravel
TUG Member
Whew! Ok, everything is back in equilibrium. I was freaked out for a minute!
Cruises and Points
As others have stated the difference is points, not just the yearly points but the incentive Marriott offers.
Points on purchase after all the bonus etc are 200,000 - 500,000.
I also got a notice they are offering a 3,4 or 7 night Cruise package.
Other "soft" benefits (YMMV type):
Time to close - Seem to be numerous threads about long transfer times.
With Developer purchase, time from signing to when you can book is usually shorter and you will know the date. If you want to use a specific date this year or next it may be an issue. Again this is different from case to case but something to keep in mind.
Know date to use - With a resale, you will not usually be able to use it the year you purchase (do to transfer time and/or need to reserve in advance). So if you close in Jan 2009, probably won't be able to reserve spring break 2009. With developer purchase, sometimes you can book, but usually they offer you points for your first year.
No title/Maintenance fee issues - Using a reputable reseller or closing company should solve this on resale, but YMMV on that super deal on e-bay.
Don't have to worry about being freaked out by sales guy spin during tour - At least once a year some salesman will tell a member that very soon Marriott is going to it's own internal system and resales will be tagged and sent to the bottom of the list. Of course they have been saying that since I have know about TUG and no one has ever seen any verification - but if you buy developer you don't have to worry about this imaginary problem.
As others have stated the difference is points, not just the yearly points but the incentive Marriott offers.
Points on purchase after all the bonus etc are 200,000 - 500,000.
I also got a notice they are offering a 3,4 or 7 night Cruise package.
Other "soft" benefits (YMMV type):
Time to close - Seem to be numerous threads about long transfer times.
With Developer purchase, time from signing to when you can book is usually shorter and you will know the date. If you want to use a specific date this year or next it may be an issue. Again this is different from case to case but something to keep in mind.
Know date to use - With a resale, you will not usually be able to use it the year you purchase (do to transfer time and/or need to reserve in advance). So if you close in Jan 2009, probably won't be able to reserve spring break 2009. With developer purchase, sometimes you can book, but usually they offer you points for your first year.
No title/Maintenance fee issues - Using a reputable reseller or closing company should solve this on resale, but YMMV on that super deal on e-bay.
Don't have to worry about being freaked out by sales guy spin during tour - At least once a year some salesman will tell a member that very soon Marriott is going to it's own internal system and resales will be tagged and sent to the bottom of the list. Of course they have been saying that since I have know about TUG and no one has ever seen any verification - but if you buy developer you don't have to worry about this imaginary problem.
"With a resale, you will not usually be able to use it the year you purchase (do to transfer time and/or need to reserve in advance). So if you close in Jan 2009, probably won't be able to reserve spring break 2009. With developer purchase, sometimes you can book, but usually they offer you points for your first year."
If this is the case, what should a new resale buyer do the first year so as not to pay maintenance fees for nothing??
If this is the case, what should a new resale buyer do the first year so as not to pay maintenance fees for nothing??
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... If this is the case, what should a new resale buyer do the first year so as not to pay maintenance fees for nothing??
Ask the previous onwer or salesperson to book a week that is as far out as possible. I have asked the salesmen to book weeks 51 or 52 for me. Hopefully I will have time to rent and/or trade my units after being recognized by Marriott.