• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Westin St. John [Master Thread]

Status
Not open for further replies.

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,863
Reaction score
2,262
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Thanks for including this, we thought we would automatically be added to the list as an owner. I will send our information so we do receive from now on.

Great.
Unfortunately, WSJ VG Owners have to request to be included in the Owners Directory.
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
Gene, ... Thank you for the link.

I have posted before about the ending of the Starwood subsidy and the lack of reserves in prior years. From page 4 of the letter found by using the link:

"Future reserves. Although not a significant factor in the additional charges for 2009, 2010, and 2011, the recent experiences with unanticipated reserve expenditures (my add - especially for roof replacement) also alerted management to improvements in future years (e.g., when the new air conditioning equipment has to be replaced some years down the road). Therefore, as soon as the refurbishing is complete (almost exhausting the reserves that were augmented by the three-year increase), it will be necessary to begin creating a realistic reserve fund for the future. This does not mean that the three-year increase will be permanent; the annual reserve funding per unit will considerably less than was charged in 2009, 2010 and 2011. But given the withdrawal of the Starwood contribution and the need to budget realistically for future capital expenses, we can predict that even if the delinquency rate diminishes, as we hope it will, maintenance fees are not going to return to 2008 levels."

Not particularly good news. ... eom
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
However, from page 1 of the letter:

" ... we met with the three Board members appointed by SVO, with Mike Ryan, the recently appointed General Manager of the property and members of his senior staff, with Mark Dunham, SVO's Vice President for Facilities Management, and with Shawn O'Brien, SVO's Director of Board Relations. We found that everyone we met with was highly professional and very capable, and we came away with the sense that notwithstanding the huge maintenance increases that we have all suffered in the last three years, our resort is in good hands. We learned a great deal about time share management, budget, and operations, and we introduced about forty new ideas and suggestions, many of which we received by email from owners since our election in May." (I added the the bold.) ... eom
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
From pages 1-2 of the linked letter:

"As you know, maintenance increases have been steep in recent years. In 2006, the fee for a week in a one-bedroom unit was $963. In 2008, it was $1,217. By 2010 it had become $2293. Units of other sizes had increases in like proportions. (The numbers for 2010 include the special three-year additions to maintenance that began in 2009.)

We found that, as SVO has said in its recent reports, these steep increases were caused almost entirely by three factors - and none of them are operating costs such as the cost of housekeeping and electricity. In fact, most operating costs have been declining in recent years. It is very unfortunate that the three factors that drove up maintenance all materialized at once in what SVO officials themselves describe as a "perfect storm." These three factors were:

The urgent need for interior and exterior refurbishment

Strwood's termination of its voluntary annual contribution

A major increase in non-payment by owners and a correspponding revenue gap that the rest of us had to make up." (I added the bold.) ... eom
 

Ken555

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
14,878
Reaction score
5,991
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
I wish the other SVN boards individual board members at all SVN resorts, acting on their own and without SVN approval, sent out a similar no-nonsense non-Starwood letter. Looks like things are getting under control at WSJ (tho not necessarily the MFs...).
 
Last edited:

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
Ken, ... This letter was from the 2 members of the board elected in May. Both were supported by TUG (1 is a TUG member). They were acting on their own and not as "the board." The letter was distributed by Starwood but written by them as individual board members.

The letter should be required reading for every WSJ VG member. IMO, the letter explains a lot of the misinformation and misconceptions which have been circulating over the last year. ... eom
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,863
Reaction score
2,262
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
I was disturbed by most of the newsletter. The indication seems to be that there was unanticipated damage to the roofs due to termites. I recently spoke to a construction expert who told me that termite damage in the cedar shank roofs is extremely unusual (this is probably why that type of roofing was used in the first place). Secondly, I've been on the island tour of St. John several times. On more than one occasion tour guides have pointed out the termite nests that you see throughout the island and have explained that they have plenty of natural habitat to feed off of and do little damage to homes and physical structures for that reason. Something doesn't add up. i'd love to see an independent engineering report justifyin gthe need for new roofs.

Hi Gene -
{sorry - busy at work}

Why do you say you were disturbed by most of the letter? I personally like most of it - there are a few issues that I would like clarification. I certainly like that we are finally getting communication from the board (at least 2 of them)

Re: siding and roofs - I was under the impression that the SA was suppose to take care of the roof/sidings.

I would like clrification on the net versus gross proceeds going back to the HOA, but I need to read the letter closer when I get a chance.

I hope you ask your consortium of Owners to send in their contact info letter - it is time to move forward to singular Owners group (IMO).
 

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Regarding my opinion of the letter

Hi Gene -
{sorry - busy at work}

Why do you say you were disturbed by most of the letter? I personally like most of it - there are a few issues that I would like clarification. I certainly like that we are finally getting communication from the board (at least 2 of them)

Re: siding and roofs - I was under the impression that the SA was suppose to take care of the roof/sidings.

I would like clrification on the net versus gross proceeds going back to the HOA, but I need to read the letter closer when I get a chance.

I hope you ask your consortium of Owners to send in their contact info letter - it is time to move forward to singular Owners group (IMO).

Dave,

Besides what I already said about the termite damage to the roofs, which I don't take at face value, the new board members were elected as a result of my efforts as well as those of Tom DeClemente. Tom came in 3rd place in the election and would have clearly been a winner if we pushed our consortium of owners behind him. Part of the reason we stood behind Phil Schrag was that he researched USVI law and discovered a discrepancy between it and our by-laws. Once a development, such as Virgin Grand Villas, becomes 75% owner occupied, control of the Board is to be turned over to the owners within a period not to exceed 60 days. BTW, Tom and I hired an attorney in USVI, who gave a legal opinion that while this wouldn't be an open and shut case, it would nevertheless be winnable. Tom and I stood behind these two new board members with an understanding that they would pursue this issue once elected. They have effectively abandoned us and are working on the "let's work with Starwood" approach. While that might work in the short run, long-term change won't come until we actually take control of the Board. If you don't believe me, talk to any of the owners at Bluebeard's Castle, where they took over their Board, fired the developer as property manager and hired their own company, SPM, to manage it. I'm not saying we need to do all that at the WSJ, but in order to have long term change for the better, we need control of the Board. Bob and Phil's letter mentions that we'll never have 100% of our units sold because 5% are always put aside for maintenance reasons. Under our existing by-laws (drafted in the mid 1980's) we won't have control until the very last unit of VGV is sold. Since at best we'll have 95% sold, we will never have control.

I agree with you that the new members are better communicators than their predecessors, Melissa Brookes and Walter DeCastro. However, that's about all. They defend Starwood's decision to go ahead with the upgrades even though there were 2 votes which felt short of a quorum. Just because most of those that did vote, voted in favor of the upgrades is not enough. According to the by-laws, you need 2/3 affirmative approval of all owners in order to go ahead with such a project. If the Board didn't need the owner's approval in the first place, why did they put it to a vote? To get the owner's blessings? In 2008, prior to all the increases in maintenance, we were still paying more maintenance on average than similar resorts in the Carribean. Money should have been set aside for capital reserves as well as doing basic maintenance on our units. Instead it was probably diverted to finance the Bay Vista units, letting VGV go down the tubes in the process. The "upgrades" to our units are in my mind nothing but refurbishments to bring us back to where they should have been had proper maintenance been done all along.

Who's expense is this been done with? Yours and mine!! It hurts those living on fixed incomes the most. It also hurts those who lost their jobs through no fault of their own in this terrible economy. Phil and Bob's solution is to allow those people who can no longer can afford to pay the maintenance an opportunity to turn their deeds back in to Starwood and not be held liable for anything going forward. While I don't like paying maintenance fees on behalf of the owners who are in default, I don't think they should have to lose their investment because of unauthorized upgrades approved by the Board. Aside from Bob and Phil the other Board members are Starwood employees, Terri Castleberry, Paulette Carter, and Jonathan Ho. The former two are glorifed secretaries and Jonathan is a glorifed bookkeeper. They are Starwood employees whose job it is to vote however Starwood tells them to. It's quite obvious that they have no interest to act on behalf of the best interests of the owners. A true board will never act in the owners' best interests until the owners control it.

Gene
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
While I agree that we should ultimately have control of the board, I think it's more than fair to give Phil and Bob a chance to get the complete "lay of the land." I've corresponded with them and I'm convinced they're 100% on our side. We can't fix every problem instantly. I'm willing to give them a chance to continue to do the right thing and make gradual improvements designed to benefit the owners.

Also, I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that owners who cannot pay are being given the opportunity to turn their deeds over to the HOA, not Starwood. I don't know why anyone, except those who are upside down due to financing, would do that. But if we can move those deeds to paying owners, we're all better off.
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
After the 3-day long meeting, the 2 newly-elected board members included this in their letter:

"We learned a great deal about time share management, budget, and operations ..." (Page 1)

Concerning the refurbishing project and the 3-year "special asessment" (not really), here's what they said:

"The refurbishing project. In 2006-2007, before the recession or the loss of the Starwood contribution were foreseeable, it became evident that significant refurbishing of the interiors of the older buildings (32, 33, 34, 41, 42 and unit 4415) was necessary. These buildings had aging, dowdy furnishings and appliances, and much of the kitchen and bathroom cabinetry and equipment was also in bad shape. The furniture and fixtures long predated Starwood's acquisition of the property in 1998. Some of the applicances were inappropriate for the space; for example, some refrigerator doors could not be fully opened because they would bump into cabinets. Vacationing owners could not have a first-class experience, and when they saw sales presentations for Building 31 and for the much newer units being built at Bay Vista across the street, they began to insist on better interiors for their units as well. The Board conducted two votes on a special assessment, outside of the normal budget cycle, to fund an interior renovation. In both votes, the owners who voted supported the assessment (on the second vote, by a margin of 86% to 14%), but in neither vote was the participation level high enough to obtain the required support of 2/3 of all owners, not just those who voted.

The Board then faced the issue of whether to go ahead with the project anyway. Had there been sufficient reserve funding, it might have been paid for out of reserves. But Starwood's predecessors as owners of the development had neither budgeted for nor created more than minimal reserves for capital improvements. Starwood did voluntarily contribute $1.3 million to the Virgin Grand replacement account in 2001 to provide the association with the ability to perform normal replacements that were needed. SVO had not recommended building up reserves to levels higher than customary replacement schedules between 2000 and 2006. (The reason for this appears to have been a perhaps unrealistic industry standard that items such as cabinetry, counter tops, tubs and toilets have very long useful lives and were not planned to be completely removed and replaced). With the full support of our owner-chosen predecessors (Board members Walter DeCastro and Melissa Brookes, who were elected in the spring of 2007), and bouyed by the 86% margin of those who had voted on the question of refurbishment, the Board approved a budget containing a $1.3 million increase in the reserves to fund the project, to be paid by owners over a three-year period.

The $1.3 million wouldn't have been such a big pocketbook hit, and it would have been offset by high owner satisfaction. (In fact, we have heard nothing but praise by owners who have lived with both the "old" and the "new" interiors.) But then, in 2008, through a routine roof inspection, it was discovered that much of the siding was rotting and that the roofs were at the very end of their useful lives. Wood shingles never should have been used in this tropical climate; the wood was infested with termites and was peeling and falling apart in many places. Both the hotel and our time share development were faced with an emergency need to replace and improve the "outer envelope" of the buildings, a very expensive job (about $5.5 million for our time shares, and about $12 million for the hotel). In 2008, the Board therefore voted to fund the reserves to cover the necessary exterior renovations in addition to the already approved interior refurbishment. As you know, both sets of improvements together required an additional maintenance payment amounting to an average of $625 per unit for three years: 2009, 2010 and 2011. While this is an average figure, the dollar amount was much higher for the larger units, particularly the three-bedroom pool villas. (The 2010 maintenance fee for a pool villa, including $1038 for the reserve fund, is $3439.)

Changing the roofs and siding will preserve and protect the property, but in addition, some of the exterior improvements will save money in operating costs. For example, the windows and doors will be much better insutated, lowering electricity costs. Individual air conditioners and water heaters are being replaced by massive and much more efficient chillers, which also generate waste heat that will be used to heat the water for showers. Permanent gas lines will replace the expensive propane tanks for the three-bedroom units.

We will report in more detail in a later report on the improvements that have been made and those that are in progress. We'll just add here that the resort that we will all own in 2012 will be a lot better, and a lot more valuable, than the one that most of us bought into before 2008. In fact, one of the building managers noted that by 2013, except for pilings securing the buildings to the ground, there will be almost nothing left of the Virgin Grand Villas as they existed ten years earlier." (Pages 2-3)

It's OK to disagree with the two newly-elected board members (who had no connections to Starwood before being elected). But, those who disagree with what they have written should state specifically what they would have done to preserve value at the resort. ... eom
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
Gene, ... I don't see anything in the critique or the email (both unattributed) in the blog stating what should have been done differently to preserve property values at the Virgin Grand Villas given the advanced deterioration of the units.

However, it seems like the letter from the new board members is not sufficient in the view of some.

The 8 page letter from the 2 new board members (after spending 3 solid days in meetings) contains 4 pages devoted to an explanation of maintenance and the reserve fund and concludes with 14 suggestions/recommendations (over another 2.5 pages) that the new members made to Starwood. They say: "Management and the Board are studying all of our suggestions for possible future action." ... eom
 

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
JARTA,

You may very well be correct. As I indicated in my post, I would like to see where things stand after the new members have been in their spots for one year.

Gene
 

jarta

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1
Location
Chicago
Gene, ... "As I indicated in my post ..."

Clarification: That is indicated in your post on the blog, not the post here on TUG.

Just have to wait and see what happens. Thanks for the link. ... eom
 

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Severe damage at Westin

For your information, we've had more damage in the last week due to subtropical storm Otto than we had with hurricane Marilyn in 1995. Right now the big pool is full of mud, the beach is eroded and Snorkels is precariously perched above the sand and the tennis courts are ruined with the carpet in heaps.

Here is the official Westin version:

Limited Services Due to Flooding

Due to heavy rainfall, the area around the Westin St. John Resort & Villas has experienced flood related damage. The resort is open but under limited operations. The resort operations team is working quickly to return to normal operations and to restore our pristine resort landscaping esthetics. The following limitations are currently in effect:

a.. Our pool will not be available until it can be drained and cleaned. It is scheduled to reopen by October 28, 2010.
b.. Snorkel's Bar & Grill and Beach Café are closed. Cruz Bay Prime is being used as the main restaurant until further notice.
c.. All beaches on St. John are closed until the necessary water safety tests can be performed. For the most up to date information please visit www.dpnr.gov.vi/notices.htm.

Due to the above limitations, the hotel is not accepting any new
reservations from October 6 to 10, 2010. The hotel is waiving any
cancellation fees for customers who would like to cancel their reservations from October 6 to October 28, 2010. If you would like to reschedule your upcoming reservation to a later date please contact our Reservations Team at 888-627-7206
 

olivias dad

newbie
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
75
Reaction score
0
Wow~ due to the slow moving nature of this storm, its actually sounding worse than our already old-friend Earl, while a huge threat, quickly moved thru the area - it sounds like this storm has been spinning and churning around for a while. My prayers to everyone there.

:(
 

LisaRex

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
317
Location
'burbs of Cincinnati, OH
Resorts Owned
Used to own: WKORV-N; SVV - Bella
Bummer to everyone, including locals who rely on tourist income for their living.
 

Westin5Star

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
0
Location
Florida
bom... WOW I cannot believe the difference from last week to this week. We left last Friday and everything looked perfect and the weather was beautiful. I feel very bad for the locals and for those who will have their vacations ruined or at minimum negatively impacted. I hope the storm gets the heck out of there and things get back to normal soon! Thank you for sharing the information and photos.
 

caterina25

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
317
Reaction score
13
Location
New York
I just saw this
Travel Advisory for The Westin St. John Resort & Villas

Due to extremely heavy rain as a result of tropical depression #17 in the USVI, the area around The Westin St. John Resort & Villas experienced heavy flooding resulting in damage to the property. The resort is open but we are encouraging Owners traveling in the near future to make alternate arrangements since available services at the resort are limited. Among other things, the property experienced severe beach erosion. The resort operations team is working quickly to return to normal operations.

A current resort update:

The resort pool is currently not in service. Scheduled to reopen by October 18, 2010
Limited Food & Beverage offerings
All beaches on St. John are performing water safety tests. Please visit www.dpnr.gov.vi/notices.htm for the most up-to-date information.
Severe Landscape damage
Should your traveling party be scheduled to arrive before October 18, 2010, please contact Owner Services toll free at 888.WV.OWNER (986.9637) or direct at 407.903.4635, to look into other vacation possibilities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top