Westin St. John [Master Thread]

[aristotlenova]

David -- as a long time lurker on these pages, I appreciate the insight you've brought to these discussions. And as someone who has been looking at purchasing at WSJ, I gotta ask if I should have my head examined given everything I've read about the unfortunate state of affairs at WSJ. What a mess. So my question to you is what would you consider to be a fair deal/strategy for a 3BR Pool unit during plat or plat plus seasons?

I'm thinking:

a) wait for another 9-12 months and hope tax issues are solved and paid for (at least for 06-07) so as new owner, liability there won't be huge (though at some point, you gotta figure that they'll find a way to assess the new and much higher rates)

b) in that same time period, the special assessment will be paid and done with

So I'm also thinking I can find a deal for 30-35k for one of the 3br pool villas during plat season (at least the realtors think this is about right now) but even if that's true and even if tax issues are somewhat resolved and the SA is paid for -- why the heck should anyone buy in WSJ given the multitude of issues you guys are facing?? I mean we love St. John, but maybe buying something worth 196k SO (Scottsdale?) and trading into WSJ would be a better strategy given the lack of issues and much lower MFs. Thoughts?

 

[DavidnRobin]

David -- as a long time lurker on these pages, I appreciate the insight you've brought to these discussions. And as someone who has been looking at purchasing at WSJ, I gotta ask if I should have my head examined given everything I've read about the unfortunate state of affairs at WSJ. What a mess. So my question to you is what would you consider to be a fair deal/strategy for a 3BR Pool unit during plat or plat plus seasons?

I'm thinking:

a) wait for another 9-12 months and hope tax issues are solved and paid for (at least for 06-07) so as new owner, liability there won't be huge (though at some point, you gotta figure that they'll find a way to assess the new and much higher rates)

b) in that same time period, the special assessment will be paid and done with

So I'm also thinking I can find a deal for 30-35k for one of the 3br pool villas during plat season (at least the realtors think this is about right now) but even if that's true and even if tax issues are somewhat resolved and the SA is paid for -- why the heck should anyone buy in WSJ given the multitude of issues you guys are facing?? I mean we love St. John, but maybe buying something worth 196k SO (Scottsdale?) and trading into WSJ would be a better strategy given the lack of issues and much lower MFs. Thoughts?

It is challenging to feedback because of the many variables.

The biggest consideration for me would be (after having the disposible income of course) :
1) Do I want a 3Bd in WSJ for vacationing with my family ever year, or willing to exchange it for HRA, a 3Bd in WSJ BV (about the only equivalent except maybe WKORV OF - which is only 2Bd - and I am biased here...) - or willing/capable to rent for non-use years?

2) Is having a fixed week (with fixed check-in day) work for staying at WSJ?

3) When do I want this fixed week, and what is the value of that fixed week if I were to sell in the future - or rent? The value difference is dramatic, and of some friendly differences of opinion here.

and if all considerations are accounted for (beyond taxes and MF/HOA issues)

4) What is the best/reasonable price I can find?

as to the price - it really depends on the week (and is it a week you want) - some of the most expensive times are not when we would travel - we prefer quiet (but not dead). that comes with a downside as to future value.

We personally would love to own a 3Bd pool villa (new ones) - for a minumum of 2 weeks (due to the travel length) if we had enough people to travel to STJ (from here in CA). However, we have challenges to find another couple year in and year out even for our 2Bd - because of busy life schedules here - the cost (and length of trip) - most they would rather go to HI (or Mexico). The Virgin Islands seems like a world away (and it is in some sense).

$35K for a 3Bd in Plat season - really? Jump on it if works out for you.
watch eBay as well - as 3bds have popped up from time to time.

SVN Exchanges appear to be getting easier lately (for off-season at least) - likely due to Bay Vista.

If you are looking for Plat season - you may need to buy there.

The Owners are uniting (we currently have >500 VOIs and growing rapidly), but unfortuanately SVO has total control because they have 4:1 voting rights (per CCRs) as they own ~10% of the VOIs - and unlikely any owner consortium will be able to directly influence proxy voting (but there are many indirect methods being evaluated... including lawsuits).

 

[DavidnRobin]

Cruz Bay Prime at WSJ (review from STJ Sun Times)

http://www.stjohnsuntimes.com/Cruz+Bay+Prime:+Prime+Time

I never went to C&B - maybe we will make it to Cruz Bay Prime.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Westin Grand Villas Owners (WSJ Hillside) Ad in STJ Tradewinds

On Page 13 (bottom) of the April 12-18, 2010 issue of the St Johns Tradewinds
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com/

attached as scanned PDF
excerpt:

WESTIN VIRGIN GRAND VILLA OWNERS

- Are you concerned about rapidly escalating maintenence fees and special assessments?
- Are you tired of getting less service for far more money?
- Are you exasperated by the lack of transparency of Starwood's management?
- Are you aware of the loss of resale value because of high maintenance fees?
- Are you aware that owners who pay their fees are being required to pay the unpaid maintenance fees of other owners?

We are villa owners who want to prevent Starwood from making more costly changes without the required owner consent. We also want to revise the by-laws, which give Starwood complete control of the Board of the owners' association until the very last unit is sold. And we want to elect independent owner representatives to that Board.

We need the names and e-mail addresses of as many owners as possible because Starwood won't disclose that information. If you are interested in obtaining more information or participating, please email Gene Jaspan: CruisingEMJ@gmail.com

 

[DavidnRobin]

now... this ^^^^ has got to be a first for SVO Owners.

Please WSJ Owners - contact Gene (Tugger: GeneNWendy) - if you haven't yet. We have a couple of hundred of owners already that own 500+ VOIs - but need more. The purpose of this ad is to find owners that otherwise would not know how to contact other owners because SVO-WSJ prevents this from occurring (under privacy act) - so they just get the same old from letter responses back from SVO when they contact the HOA to register complaints. We believe there are 1000s of WSJ-VG owners (like us) who are fed up with a doubling of their MFs after many years of reasoanble MFs - with a vast decrease in service (what started this thread in the first place). The STJ Tradewinds is a paper that many owners read while at WSJ - and we are using every method possible (e.g. public tax files) to try and contact owners since SVO-WSJ will not cooperate.

Did you know that SVO gets 4:1 voting to every owner vote (in by-laws) and this will continue until all villas are sold - well guess what?! SVO owns ~10% of units - so thay have ~40% of proxy control. That essentially gives them a strangle hold on the HOA - 3 of the 5 HOA BOD are Starwood Employees and the other 2 are so-called 'independent owners' are anything but independent. They claim they are - but their actions (and lack of action) speak otherwise.

This is about a few simple things: gaining control of the HOA - getting real independent Owners on the BOD - and changing the by-laws to give control to the owners who are flipping the bill for this resort (which is part SPG hotel).

It is time for action - it will take a while - and will be a tough battle - but with a concerted effort - hopefully we will get SVO managment to start taking notice and listening.

 

[aristotlenova]

Interestingly, since we're in St. John right now, I decided to do the SVO presentation tomorrow morning since I'm sure there are a few questions they can answer for me (like why should I buy from you when I can buy resale at 1/3 of the cost). The fact that they offered me 12k SPG points didn't hurt either. I'm certainly going to mention the crazy increases in MF during the conversation and frankly the MFs are the one thing that is really giving me pause about WSJ right now. Having stayed in one of the 3BR pool villas (rental in 43xx) for the past week, at least THIS villa seems to be in pretty good shape. There are a few issues (broken microwave, no housekeeping the entire week, no new towels unless we ask, no one taking out the trash), but on the whole it's been great.

Let me know if there are any questions I can ask the sales people. Like why they haven't responded to various complaints of people on this board. :rofl:

 

[DavidnRobin]

Interestingly, since we're in St. John right now, I decided to do the SVO presentation tomorrow morning since I'm sure there are a few questions they can answer for me (like why should I buy from you when I can buy resale at 1/3 of the cost). The fact that they offered me 12k SPG points didn't hurt either. I'm certainly going to mention the crazy increases in MF during the conversation and frankly the MFs are the one thing that is really giving me pause about WSJ right now. Having stayed in one of the 3BR pool villas (rental in 43xx) for the past week, at least THIS villa seems to be in pretty good shape. There are a few issues (broken microwave, no housekeeping the entire week, no new towels unless we ask, no one taking out the trash), but on the whole it's been great.

Let me know if there are any questions I can ask the sales people. Like why they haven't responded to various complaints of people on this board. :rofl:

It is not an issue that salepeople will respond to - other than the standard sales response. We love our villa - and have little issue in that regard. The sales people purpose is to sell you a TS, keep it on the upside, and nothing more. I prefer little interaction with staff including house keeping - you do realize that you only get one mid-week tidy right?

I do not attend 'Owners Update' anymore - they just get mad at me. Like saying what I am doing there since it is a sales presentation - when I say they said it was an Owners Update and why would I buy another TS when I own 5 1/2 weeks already - they usually let me go pretty fast. 12K SPs - Wow! For that I may attend.

I don't bring up issues unless prodded - like a guy at WKORV trying to convince me that WPORV pays for itself in SO-SP conversion alone (he actually yelled at me and left when I shot holes in his fuzzy math with my own).

Let us know if they say anything of interest - unlikely.

 

[aristotlenova]

So funny thing is they originally offered $200 in "sand dollars" -- and I said not interested. Then they said what about 8k SP? I said, look, I'm SPG Plat, and frankly 8k points just isn't even worth $200. If you wanna do 12k points, I'll attend. At which point she (the concierge lady) told me she'd need to call the manager and call me back. 2 min later she calls back and says, sure, we'll gladly do 12k points. Point being, don't settle for whatever they are offering for these SVO presos -- ask for what you want.

 

[jarta]

April 12, 2010 article on St. John property taxes:

http://www.stjohnvirealestateblog.com/?p=1612

... eom

 

[aristotlenova]

Had a good chat with the sales people at WSJ. Asked a few pointed questions about MF increases with the hillside villas. Their perspective is that under Hyatt the hillside villas were run into the ground and had no reserve fund at all. Upgrades were necessary, the place was in shambles (their words not mine) hence the SA and the massive hike in MFs on the whole. When I asked why there was a SA without owner consent, they said they tried twice to get upgrades made, once not enough votes and second time owners voted it down. While I have no clue the accuracy of any of it, it was nice that they addressed it rather than trying to skirt the issue.

They also said that was not going to happen with Bay Vista since they are running it differently and a portion of your MFs are already allocated for reserve fund.

Anyhow, in case anyone is interested in the current pricing, they are selling 2BR + Loft BV villas for $58k during Plat Plus and are offering 200k in SP as incentive. Evidently, that's a $20k discount from what they were selling for last year (don't believe it, but so they say). I was more interested in the pool villas, and for the limited inventory they had, it was $75k for something in week 13 or 14 and 200k in SP. In both cases, I told them resale was like 1/3 of that so it just wasn't compelling. When they tried to dispute that, I happened to have a full listing from the MLS which had every resale on the market at current as well as every sale that has happened over the past 15 months. That ended that part of the convo pretty quickly.

 

[jarta]

aristotlenova, ... I was at WSJ for a week ending April 16th in a 3-br pool villa. We must have been neighbors. I was in 4414 - also in very good shape now.

I was told the same story about Hyatt and the developers who went bankrupt (Great Cruz and St. John Virgin Grand Villas Associates), the lack of a reserve fund and the state of the Hillside units before the special assessment. I don't know how much of it is true. But, I suspect a lot may be true. http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/95/95.F3d.291.96-7288.html

"Hyatt was reticent to commit the "Hyatt" and "Hyatt Regency" names to the resort because of the resort's historically poor performance, its financial structure, and the fact that the quality and consistency of service, facilities, and amenities provided by Great Cruz fell far below Hyatt's quality standards. Thus, Hyatt believed that there was substantial economic and reputational risk in allowing the resort to be known as a "Hyatt Regency.""

Given the size of the structure, the amount of furniture and the private pool area that must be maintained, I am not shocked by the annual MF for the pool villas. If they were much less, I tend to believe more the story about the state of the villas and the lack of a reserve fund before the special assessment. Did you know that the first villas were bought at about $25,000 per week and many were sold in one-month blocks? It's been a good, long run for those owners who now want to terminate Starwood management.

The right to terminate is pretty well established these days, but wrongful termination of a management contract can have expensive side effects. Self-management is tempting, but extremely hard to pull off.

http://transfersmart.blogspot.com/2009/11/transfer-smart-news-timeshare-owners.html

http://www.hotelsmag.com/article/36...f_Hotel_Management_Agreements_In_Workouts.php

At my "owners update" I was offered an annual Platinum Plus 2-br loft in Bay Vista for $55,595. I was told this was "temporarily" down since last October from $89,995. Biennial was $27,798. I was offered 230,000 Starpoints as an incentive. When I asked about the fixed 2-br loft for the holiday weeks (7, 47, 51 and 52), I was told they were still being sold for about $127,000.

The 3-br Platinum Plus in Bay Vista was $60,495 - supposedly down from $84,995. Biennial was $30,278. Same 230,000 Starpoint incentive.

The regular (non-loft) 2-br Platinum Plus was $49,895 - supposedly down from $69,995. Biennial was $24,948. 110,000 Starpoint incentive.

I was told that the pricing and incentives were a "today only" deal. However, the "customer satisfaction" representative offered me a week-long Explorer package for $3,895 in a 2-br Bay Vista that guaranteed pricing for 120 days. I turned it down because I have used Staroptions to reserve another 3-br villa starting this September 25 (hurricane season). The effective cost of the Staroptions was about $1,000. So, I didn't want or need the Explorer offer.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say you are a 5 Star Elite (your Personal Information says you have no TS) and when you say nobody took out the garbage. Except for the mid-week tidy, you don't get housekeeping services unless you pay for them at a Starwood TS. The garbage can is out by the parking area for the pool villas.

The $75K you say you were quoted by Starwood for a week 13 or 14 in a pool villa is just about the same as the current asking price for a week 7 in 4211 (a smaller, older 3-br, 3-ba pool villa). http://www.stjohnproperties.com/details.html?list_number=09-66

Be careful if you decide to purchase on the open market. Aside from the tax situation and those in favor of ousting management, there is a VI stamp tax on transfers and the pool villas have varying floor plans (especially bathroom layouts) that matter and, because they are sold as fixed weeks, the exact week matters - a lot.

Hope you had a nice visit. I sure did. ... eom

 

[jarta]

DavidnRobin, ... "Did you know that SVO gets 4:1 voting to every owner vote (in by-laws) and this will continue until all villas are sold - well guess what?! SVO owns ~10% of units - so thay have ~40% of proxy control."

Fuzzy math.

Assume 10,000 ownership interest weeks and Starwood has 10% or 1,000 interest weeks.

Starwood would have 4,000 votes. The rest would have 9,000 votes. There are 13,000 possible votes. Starwood would have only 30.8% of the votes (4/13).

However, 30.8% of the votes is still very formidable.

BTW, the 4:1 voting rights for the developer applies at Lagunamar, too. ... eom

 

[aristotlenova]

jarta, we were totally neighbors. How funny. I could've picked your brain about TS stuff over a beer had I known. I think we got quoted the same prices, but looks like you got an extra 30k in SP incentives thrown at you. And btw, never said I was 5* elite or whatever that is, but rather SPG Plat (the hotel program).

Also, since you seem to be ardently against the owner sentiment on this board about *wood management at WSJ, what's your thinking? For the 3BR pool villas, how is it even possible for the actual maintenance cost to be 3500 per week per villa? I mean the maintenance fees alone for just the pool villas would be $182k per year for one villa. Even if you had to refurbish every last item in the villa, and you factored in housekeeping and services, I can't imagine how it could possibly run that much.

Since I'm not an owner, I have no idea if what I'm saying is logical or not. Do they share budget information with owners that outlines exactly how the money is spent? If not, and if they control the board, how can anyone feel comfortable with the way in which they manage?

 

[jarta]

aristotlenova, ... Sorry that I missed the SPG Platinum.

How the money is spent is the subject of an annual audited report. It would contain broad categories, but, in the notes and comparison of budget to actual and actual to prior year, would disclose enough to satisfy most people. (Things like number of use weeks, number retained by Starwood, allowance for delinquencies, whether and how much accounts receivable is written off each year, trends in revenue and expenses, length of the management contract, related transactions, etc.)

While I was at WSJ, I poked around the Internet for resales. What I found leads me to believe that more than just repair week is an empty week for many pool villas. If that's the case, the total amount collected would be less. How much, I just don't know.

While poking around the Internet, I came across multiple weeks for sale for the same pool villa. Strangely, for separated weeks, the check in date listed varied widely (sometimes Friday, later Sunday, then, maybe, Saturday). I don't know how you can sell full weeks with apparent overlaps of check in days.

That wouldn't explain all of what you feel may be excessive. But little things add up. The small pools are cleaned twice a week. There are separate thermostats for the upper and lower floors of each villa which tells me there is zoned air conditioning. There is probably twice as much furniture as in a smaller unit. There are golf carts ferrying people to all the remote areas up the hills where the smaller Hillside units and the Bay Vista units are located. The owners do not pay directly for the ferry use, but I assume it is figured in the MF on a per person basis. There are taxis from and to the airport that need to be arranged. There are drinks and cool towels when you arrive. There are larger roof surfaces to maintain. Our unit had 4 separate beds and 3.5 baths and 4 TVs. Cable, wireless and satellite TV are "free" - but nothing is ever free. The concierge and front desk are not separate like they are at most Starwood resorts. The cost of maintaining the workout facilities is probably a shared expense. The walls get nicked and dirtier than a one floor unit from people lugging suitcases up and down the stairs. Sand can get everywhere (mostly from kids) and necessitate frequent fumigation as part of the clean up for the next guests. The individual barbecues and hot tubs occasionally need work. There are exterior walls and entry doors that can need servicing or painting. The salt air makes everything deteriorate more quickly. WSJ just looked to me like a place where the maintenance would be constant and expensive. So, I think that $2,400 per year ($1,000 per year SA ends next year) is not really excessive for a 2,850 sq. ft. villa on an island where everything is shipped in. And, the $2,400 includes a contribution to an actual reserve fund where none existed before. I own a 3-br at Harborside and the 2010 assessment exceeds $2,400 - for far less sq. footage.

As for how anyone can trust the HOA, for 6 years I was on the board of 2 associations where I live. In community living, you give up the freedom to make all the decisions yourself. There is always a small, but vocal, minority that wants things run differently. I did not buy 6 Platinum Plus 2-br (or larger) Starwood weeks because I thought it would come cheaply. I bought on the Starwood track record of having very upscale accommodations and service-oriented staff at them. And, I am not disappointed. To keep the resorts that way, I know money has to be spent so I enjoy my vacations rather than belly-aching all the time about whether $1,100 in annual assessment for a 2-br lockoff in Myrtle Beach is pure banditry. Within limits (which have not yet been reached) I am willing to trust the brand I sought out and purchased.

As for the anti-Starwood attitude of TUG members: The 50 or so TUG members who complain all the time tend to drown out the many (especially 5 Star Elite) TUG members who merely sit back and smile. All you have to do is go to any branded TUG forum to hear complaints. While sitting around the pools at SVO resorts, I rarely hear anyone complaining about the cost of the assessments. Last year everyone here was praising the virtues of Marriott. Starting in June, when the new points system is adopted by Marriott, it will become this year's Starwood. It's the nature of the people who post the most on TUG.

Still, WSJ was a very nice place to visit last week. Depending on how tight trading in with Staroptions becomes after the tax bills go out, the SA ends and the economy comes back, I might want to buy something there - to use, not to trade. GLTY! ... eom

 

[DavidnRobin]

Had a good chat with the sales people at WSJ. Asked a few pointed questions about MF increases with the hillside villas. Their perspective is that under Hyatt the hillside villas were run into the ground and had no reserve fund at all. Upgrades were necessary, the place was in shambles (their words not mine) hence the SA and the massive hike in MFs on the whole. When I asked why there was a SA without owner consent, they said they tried twice to get upgrades made, once not enough votes and second time owners voted it down. While I have no clue the accuracy of any of it, it was nice that they addressed it rather than trying to skirt the issue.

They also said that was not going to happen with Bay Vista since they are running it differently and a portion of your MFs are already allocated for reserve fund.

Anyhow, in case anyone is interested in the current pricing, they are selling 2BR + Loft BV villas for $58k during Plat Plus and are offering 200k in SP as incentive. Evidently, that's a $20k discount from what they were selling for last year (don't believe it, but so they say). I was more interested in the pool villas, and for the limited inventory they had, it was $75k for something in week 13 or 14 and 200k in SP. In both cases, I told them resale was like 1/3 of that so it just wasn't compelling. When they tried to dispute that, I happened to have a full listing from the MLS which had every resale on the market at current as well as every sale that has happened over the past 15 months. That ended that part of the convo pretty quickly.

Thanks for the update - and enjoy yourself.

The WSJ VG (Hillside) issues are diverse - with diverse opinions on all fronts. It can easily get contrived to be something else by all parties involved with a vested interest (and for some reason someone who does not...), and therefore get easily on tangents that are unproductive (as with most complex issues with $ and happiness involved).

I am not looking to get into a lawsuit, nor a purely Owner controlled resort - or some other neferious reason. However, I have a real piece of my own $ and happiness in this resort and its well-being - as everyone who is really involved in this battle.

My personal priority and intent is to get effective Owner-Owner Communication (for those who want it) that will give better transparency in the long run. Simple - huh?

I am looking at having a open partnership between Owners and SVO-WSJ with transparency (if I want it - and I do...)

But do consider that SVO does have a 4:1 voting power and owns ~10% of the VOIs. Of the 5 BODs - 3 are SVO proxies, and 2 are Owners that are doing a tough job, but unfortunately (IMO and others) are not doing a tough job optimally. And given the current state - in a resort like this where the Owners have a large vested interest - you can see and feel the upswell of concerned Owners that want answers - and not those off of a form letter from SVO. No other SVO resort can claim as many Owners that have banded together - both those willing to be involved and those that want to be informed. We have to be at least 700+ VOIs in connection - a drop in the bucket, but a 100-fold increase of where we were.

The issues over the years with MFs (and usage) was why this thread was started a long while back (as a TUG thread) and one of the most read (and mostly by lurkers).

Please go back and scan this thread and keep in perspective of info at the time. You will clearly see my opinion - at the time - with the my knowledge at that time (as not to tangent in perfect hindsight). And you can also see my intent - which is 1st and foremost to share information.

We and another owner even tried to buy a couch once for our villa - out of our own pocket...

Also keep in sight those individuals that have other motivations - as well as those that seem (on the surface) to have no vested interest, but seem to be interesting in creating tangents for some unknown motivation.

WSJ and STJ is a great place - the Owners spend a lot to stay and own there - SVO and Owners have a vested interest in keeping this a 1st class resort (USVI standards apply here) - probably more so than any other SVO resort. I beieve with communication and transparency we can move to that goal.

btw - I didn't send a CIS in - so this is not a election speech... :hysterical:

 

[jarta]

DavidnRobin, ... Has anyone ever asked to get a copy of the annual audit for the association? Every owner at every timeshare resort has a vested interest in how it is run. That's why anyone who doesn't think the HOA board is doing a good job well should immediately get a copy of the most recent audit, read it and publish the contents.

With the audit, you would clearly see if (or if not) there was any reserve fund extant prior to the imposition of the special assessment in 2009. The people on the other side of the existing board would find it infinitely easier to attack that board if the lack of a reserve fund is found out to be a lie.

I find it unusual that the people with a such an overriding vested interest turned down a special assessment (twice) while a responsible guy like you was thinking of buying a new couch for your unit because the old one was worn out. It just doesn't add up. But, this great place to visit has had trouble ever since Hurricane Marilyn in 1996. ... eom

 

[DavidnRobin]

Unrest at the Westin

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2010/04/virgin-islands-st-john-westin.html#comments

Sent to Frank Barnako (News of STJ) from yours truly.

 

[GeneNWendy]

WSJ Owners Do Pay for Ferry Use

Hi Jarta,

I just want to correct a fact you mentioned. WSJ owners now pay $110.00 r/t to use the ferry during their stay. That's the same amount as non-owners. Like anyone else who uses the ferry, it includes unlimited trips to and from St. Thomas during their stay. There used to be a discount of nearly $20.00 for owners, but that's not the case anymore. The bottom line, is that the ferry cost should not factor into any maintenance fee calculation.

aristotlenova, ... Sorry that I missed the SPG Platinum.

How the money is spent is the subject of an annual audited report. It would contain broad categories, but, in the notes and comparison of budget to actual and actual to prior year, would disclose enough to satisfy most people. (Things like number of use weeks, number retained by Starwood, allowance for delinquencies, whether and how much accounts receivable is written off each year, trends in revenue and expenses, length of the management contract, related transactions, etc.)

While I was at WSJ, I poked around the Internet for resales. What I found leads me to believe that more than just repair week is an empty week for many pool villas. If that's the case, the total amount collected would be less. How much, I just don't know.

While poking around the Internet, I came across multiple weeks for sale for the same pool villa. Strangely, for separated weeks, the check in date listed varied widely (sometimes Friday, later Sunday, then, maybe, Saturday). I don't know how you can sell full weeks with apparent overlaps of check in days.

That wouldn't explain all of what you feel may be excessive. But little things add up. The small pools are cleaned twice a week. There are separate thermostats for the upper and lower floors of each villa which tells me there is zoned air conditioning. There is probably twice as much furniture as in a smaller unit. There are golf carts ferrying people to all the remote areas up the hills where the smaller Hillside units and the Bay Vista units are located. The owners do not pay directly for the ferry use, but I assume it is figured in the MF on a per person basis. There are taxis from and to the airport that need to be arranged. There are drinks and cool towels when you arrive. There are larger roof surfaces to maintain. Our unit had 4 separate beds and 3.5 baths and 4 TVs. Cable, wireless and satellite TV are "free" - but nothing is ever free. The concierge and front desk are not separate like they are at most Starwood resorts. The cost of maintaining the workout facilities is probably a shared expense. The walls get nicked and dirtier than a one floor unit from people lugging suitcases up and down the stairs. Sand can get everywhere (mostly from kids) and necessitate frequent fumigation as part of the clean up for the next guests. The individual barbecues and hot tubs occasionally need work. There are exterior walls and entry doors that can need servicing or painting. The salt air makes everything deteriorate more quickly. WSJ just looked to me like a place where the maintenance would be constant and expensive. So, I think that $2,400 per year ($1,000 per year SA ends next year) is not really excessive for a 2,850 sq. ft. villa on an island where everything is shipped in. And, the $2,400 includes a contribution to an actual reserve fund where none existed before. I own a 3-br at Harborside and the 2010 assessment exceeds $2,400 - for far less sq. footage.

As for how anyone can trust the HOA, for 6 years I was on the board of 2 associations where I live. In community living, you give up the freedom to make all the decisions yourself. There is always a small, but vocal, minority that wants things run differently. I did not buy 6 Platinum Plus 2-br (or larger) Starwood weeks because I thought it would come cheaply. I bought on the Starwood track record of having very upscale accommodations and service-oriented staff at them. And, I am not disappointed. To keep the resorts that way, I know money has to be spent so I enjoy my vacations rather than belly-aching all the time about whether $1,100 in annual assessment for a 2-br lockoff in Myrtle Beach is pure banditry. Within limits (which have not yet been reached) I am willing to trust the brand I sought out and purchased.

As for the anti-Starwood attitude of TUG members: The 50 or so TUG members who complain all the time tend to drown out the many (especially 5 Star Elite) TUG members who merely sit back and smile. All you have to do is go to any branded TUG forum to hear complaints. While sitting around the pools at SVO resorts, I rarely hear anyone complaining about the cost of the assessments. Last year everyone here was praising the virtues of Marriott. Starting in June, when the new points system is adopted by Marriott, it will become this year's Starwood. It's the nature of the people who post the most on TUG.

Still, WSJ was a very nice place to visit last week. Depending on how tight trading in with Staroptions becomes after the tax bills go out, the SA ends and the economy comes back, I might want to buy something there - to use, not to trade. GLTY! ... eom

 

[jarta]

GeneNWendy ... Sorry for the mistake about the ferry fee.

I'm just a newbie to WSJ who might consider being your co-association member. But, I'm concerned about the acrimony going on. I understand the MF are high, but if the $1K SA is removed from the mix, the MF for a 3-br pool villa (2,850 sq. ft.) at WSJ will be about $300 less than I now pay at Harborside for my 3-br lockoff (1,446 sq. ft.).

Four questions about your interest in the fight you are organizing against Starwood:

1. How did you vote on the special assessment questions?

2. Would you like to return to running the Hillside association without a reserve fund (or is Starwood lying about the lack of a reserve fund)?

3. Would you rather WSJ be managed by Starwood or have someone else manage it and deal with Starwood without Starwood having a fiduciary obligation to Hillside owners in negotiations for access to hotel amenities?

4. How many unit/weeks do you own and how many do you use yourself or and how many are rented out?

TIA. ... eom

 

[Loriannf]

WSJ Proxy Received

Sorry to start a new thread, but I just received my proxy. 35!! people are running for the 2 owner positions on the board. SVO states that they continue to own 12% of the villas, but will refrain from voting on the owner representatives.

The Bio information is 6 pages long. So at least there are interested owners, but how to best choose 2? If there are any Tuggers running, please identify yourselves here on the board.

Thanks.

Lori

 

[James1975NY]

Sorry to start a new thread, but I just received my proxy. 35!! people are running for the 2 owner positions on the board. SVO states that they continue to own 12% of the villas, but will refrain from voting on the owner representatives.

The Bio information is 6 pages long. So at least there are interested owners, but how to best choose 2? If there are any Tuggers running, please identify yourselves here on the board.

Thanks.

Lori

Do you want to vote for a Tugger or the best candidate?

 

[Loriannf]

Best Candidate

But it would be nice if the candidate were also a TUGGER!

It's really hard to judge the candidates; everyone lists their qualifications, but very few state what they want to do beyond the generic "make communications better, lower fees".

I realize they have limited space, but it would be nice to know their plan.

Lori

 

[Tia]

Best to coordinate and choose just 2 candidates to concentrate your votes, to elect best choices once you all decided.

 

[jerseygirl]

I believe the coordination efforts are being made via the owners' group emails to minimize the "noise" from non-owners.

I'm not aware of any regular TUG posters running ... I was hoping DavidnRobin would run, but David stated he decided not to on another thread the other day.

Reading between the lines of the very short bios submitted, I've been able to narrow my choices considerably. However, I too am hoping for some guidance from the owners' group.

 

[jerseygirl]

I also have to say that after almost 10 years as a Starwood owner, this appears to be the most transparent and fair election solicitation I've ever received from them. I won't speculate on what's behind it -- but it's a huge improvement from my perspective.

Starwood has pledged not to influence the vote for the owner members. As stated above, they will not be casting their votes ... and, for owners who designate the Assoc Secretary as proxy, the votes will be cast "in the same manner as the majority of the owners voting in the election."

Of course, they still hold 3 seats so I guess they can afford to be generous ... but this is a huge step in the right direction.