Westin St John [Master Thread] - Part 2 (June 2014 and forward)

[okwiater]

CV villa

CV villa living area

 

[okwiater]

CV villa

CV villa dining

 

[okwiater]

CV villa

CV villa construction 1

 

[okwiater]

CV villa

CV villa construction 2

 

[okwiater]

CV villa

CV villa construction 3

 

[okwiater]

CV exterior

CV exterior 1

 

[okwiater]

CV exterior

CV exterior 2

 

[okwiater]

CV lobby

CV lobby 1

 

[okwiater]

CV lobby

CV lobby 2

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 1

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 2

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 3

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 4

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 5

 

[okwiater]

Lemongrass

Lemongrass 6

 

[NNerland]

CV MF's

I did talk to my contact at Starwood, as I was a purchaser of the 148,100 resort season. We purchased for flexibility and were able to Retro to get to 5*. We have about 40% the capital usually required to get to 5* because of our BV ownership and retro's we completed. It was a win win for us.

BV is pretty much sold out with the new values, their MF's are so much cheaper and you get really good value for Options and Starwood Points (exchange) relative to the MF's of other resorts.

The new CV is a trust of points, therefore they are able to charge you more appropriately for the season use, where they can't with the deeded property.

So the 148,100 has been sold out since midwinter and the prices for MF's you are seeing to get to 148,100 is done by cobbling seasons together to get you the points you want. Again, they are selling as more of a property to exchange out of, yet have ownership to get in when you can.

It is new, so spendy, and people are apparently paying up. I was just glad to confirm that our 148,100 will start about $2450, I am sure it will go up...but we got rid of Kauai, our first property, because their fees kept going up and their options were less. We LOVE St John and LOVE that we got to 5* and only own 3 1/2 weeks (3 every year + 1 every other) versus the typical 5 weeks it takes to get to 5*

 

[okwiater]

I think CV is going to have a much bigger delinquency problem as compared to the other phases. The MFs are insanely high.

A side question: if I buy 3 packages of points to get to 148,100, is that 3 weeks that I can deposit into II?

 

[DavidnRobin]

It is good to see that they have found way to attempt to even out the MFs between high- and low-season ownership.

The fees for WSJ phases have increased much more than WPORV - all things considered (time as factor) - and the SOs are the same (148.1K) and the SPs also about the same iirc (84K SP for conversion for 148.1K SOs at WPORV w/o 10% bump being 5*).

Even in the low season (high MF/SO) at WSJ - my Gold+ VGV neighbor paid (resale) $9K for 2 weeks worth 95.7K SO per week in 2015.

The SO-SP conversion for VOIs with high MFs (e.g. WSJ, WPORV, WKORV/N HRA...) are not worth it - unless extreme fuzzy math is applied as done by SVO Sales.

Up until recently - for about $20K you could get a resale 3Bd Plat+ VGV (pool) - that is going to have a huge amount of SOs associated with them in 2015 - even the Plat VGV are going to get a 50% bump in SOs.

let's see where this all is (MFs, etc) in 2017-18 - when the CV dust settles.

A 40% discount over what amount? Meaning - all-in-all how much capital was laid out - and what are the total MFs? What the 'book' price is buying from SVO shouldn't even be in the equation. I am sure this bargain it was not cheap, but if you have cash to burn, then why not?

 

[czar]

They do look really nice. Both the external and internal construction looks excellent.

 

[czar]

That's incredibly messed up. They did not reference that at all and completely dodged the question. Hey told me to email with any questions and no answer to that one surprise surprise

They're going to have some ANGRY owners when they find out they're paying $800 more per year for the same SO. It's egregious. Whether it will do anything of not, I'm writing a letter to corporate because I raised the issue and they definitely were less than honest about it.

I did talk to my contact at Starwood, as I was a purchaser of the 148,100 resort season. We purchased for flexibility and were able to Retro to get to 5*. We have about 40% the capital usually required to get to 5* because of our BV ownership and retro's we completed. It was a win win for us.

BV is pretty much sold out with the new values, their MF's are so much cheaper and you get really good value for Options and Starwood Points (exchange) relative to the MF's of other resorts.

The new CV is a trust of points, therefore they are able to charge you more appropriately for the season use, where they can't with the deeded property.

So the 148,100 has been sold out since midwinter and the prices for MF's you are seeing to get to 148,100 is done by cobbling seasons together to get you the points you want. Again, they are selling as more of a property to exchange out of, yet have ownership to get in when you can.

It is new, so spendy, and people are apparently paying up. I was just glad to confirm that our 148,100 will start about $2450, I am sure it will go up...but we got rid of Kauai, our first property, because their fees kept going up and their options were less. We LOVE St John and LOVE that we got to 5* and only own 3 1/2 weeks (3 every year + 1 every other) versus the typical 5 weeks it takes to get to 5*

 

[NNerland]

The SO-SP conversion for VOIs with high MFs (e.g. WSJ, WPORV, WKORV/N HRA...) are not worth it - unless extreme fuzzy math is applied as done by SVO Sales.

I hear this argument ALL the time on TUGG. However, it doesn't take fuzzy math to say it is NOT WORTH IT -- obviously it depends on where you use the points. Do you ever go to New York, San Francisco, St John Westin, Chicago, Iowa City on a Football weekend, etc....many times these rooms are $400+/night and take 7,000 to 16,000 points. St John can run upwards of $1,000/night and in Europe you can save big money too. I wouldn't say using points at a FourPoints makes sense, but you have to admit those who have these timeshares through Starwood aren't usually staying at the Fourpoints. They are investing in the Starwood Brand and higher end properties. I have found that 75% of the time we are saving 50% on rooms when breaking down valuations of points we use. In addition to the close to 750,000 points we got through two purchases, using the AMEX on the purchases - we got some nice perks for the intial investment.

As for 40% discount comment - versus retail. I realize you can buy all you want and go where you want or buy at Mandatory resorts - however we are a family that likes to use our ownership and have flexibility to see the world in a high class way that we could not otherwise afford.

Also - I am referring to Bay Vista MF's -- Virgin Grand have ALWAYS been high and I believe it was a lack of funding for replacement that caused much of this. I believe that the newer SVO's are better run in terms of funding for updates and improvements and many costs have been associated with taxes, utilities, labor and insurance costs...just as many of our OWN PERSONAL HOMEOWNERSHIP COSTS have risen ahead of inflation - not to mention healthcare.

We purchased 2 properties through Starwood Direct and 2 properties on the secondary market - were able to do upgrades and retros to get us to 715,000 Staroptions. We got very lucky with the recent re-valuation of St John and the lowest cost MF's per value received ownership in Bay Vista.

This can all change - but we have a good base to build off of and have many benefits to reap before it becomes more painful.

 

[DavidnRobin]

czar - to my understanding, the MFs bills for CV have not come out. I think the point is how you package the SOs together - results in different MFs for the same amount of SOs - if I understood correctly.

now - more important things - photos of Trunk, Maho, etc...

 

[NNerland]

That's incredibly messed up. They did not reference that at all and completely dodged the question. Hey told me to email with any questions and no answer to that one surprise surprise

They're going to have some ANGRY owners when they find out they're paying $800 more per year for the same SO. It's egregious. Whether it will do anything of not, I'm writing a letter to corporate because I raised the issue and they definitely were less than honest about it.

I do not side with Starwood, often struggle with value of capital tied up and loss of future growth, versus spending along the way; but in this case it is very clear. What you are buying is NOT 148,100 in the sense of 1 week in that season. You are buying 2 lower seasons, each season having a MF's associated with that week. If you want to have enough points you have to do it that way. They split up into so many different seasons/week options - that just like with other properties with Plat Plus, Plat, Gold, Red, etc - you have various options and prices available with each.

I personally would NEVER cobble together with the higher fee, but it is pretty clear.

After reading often on this site - like those who only watch Fox News, MSNBC or CNN - you start to only see things one way and believe what you are programed to believe.

No doubt Developer purchases are expensive - and I would have never gotten to 5* that way -- but you get what you get and those who cobble together in other ways don't get the value and flexibility. That works for some and not for others. But to blanket that one way or the other is the right way for everyone is wrong and misleading.

 

[DavidnRobin]

You hear the fuzzy math argument all the time on TUG because it is true - and born out of years of experience and many sides of the discussion that has gone on for years - you can spin it anyway you want (thus... why it is called fuzzy math). I certainly have my share of SOs and SPs - as well as overpaying - but at the same time - I have some great resorts - and great vacations. If 5* works for you - and you were obviously willing to pay it - more power to you.

Re: MFs - what I meant is the MFs that are being charged now is a reflection of the current state of MFs at BV and CV - as well as VGV. But, overall - the MFs have flattened out at a rate 50% higher than ~2007. You are comparing an already high MF to an upward increase in bringing WPORV into the mix. All I am saying is that they were already high - and the SO-SP conversion (which can obviously can and should be optimized) is a poor conversion - and more so with high MFs.

The SOs for SVN exchanges are truly the gauge that should be considered - and that goes to both upfront costs and annual costs. That is what is the true cost - not some implied discount of paying full-freight - even with the requals. Bringing in the aspect of SO to SP conversion has only flexibility value - a poor one from a financial perspective.

I see you like the comparison to certain News organization - the truth is that the world is not black or white - that is to your point - and that it is not a one-size fits all. As said - if you have the spare money - go for it - someone needs to keep the boat afloat.

I can easily look at my OFD at WKORV - which has a value on SVO sheets of $125K and claim that I got a great deal - but in reality it still cost a lot of cash upfront and in MFs. Is it my fav VOI? Yes. Do I enjoy it immensely? Yes. But at the same time I realize that my vacation monies could go a lot further if I rented down the beach, and certainly do not delude myself that I saved 50%+.

 

[czar]

czar - to my understanding, the MFs bills for CV have not come out. I think the point is how you package the SOs together - results in different MFs for the same amount of SOs - if I understood correctly.

now - more important things - photos of Trunk, Maho, etc...

David,

Weird phone call this morning at 8:45. It was Jason. "You free? A charter just cancelled." "Yeah," I replied. "Be there in an hour."

We were supposed to go tomorrow am.

What's the best thing you've ever done on a vacation? Hands down - Island Roots.