Warning to Timeshare Sellers about Redweek Full Service

[HeidingOut]

I don't know if this is the right place to post my frustration. But, here goes. I've now twice attempted to purchase timeshares via redweek. On both transactions which were "full service" transactions, the Redweek agents were just completely unhelpful or maybe uninformed causing the seller to lose the sale of their timeshare. Last year, it was a Lagunamar contract which we ended up buying off of Ebay. The ebay seller provided Estoppel before I bid.

This time it is a Bluegreen contract. I'm literally on my fourth email asking this agent for a copy of Estoppel with the owner's information blacked out so I can see what's owed, the Trust details, and what we would be actually purchasing. And, for the fourth time the agent has refused to give me those key details instead insisting I make "an offer" before they provide a copy of Estoppel. She has yet to answer any information about the Trust (which is important with a Bluegreen contract).

She has made this transaction so convoluted that I will just find a different contract. Let this be a warning to sellers about Redweek's Full Service service. Unless you really just do not want to sell your timeshare, listing on Tugs yourself maybe a much better way to go.

 

[md8287]

I don't know if this is the right place to post my frustration. But, here goes. I've now twice attempted to purchase timeshares via redweek. On both transactions which were "full service" transactions, the Redweek agents were just completely unhelpful or maybe uninformed causing the seller to lose the sale of their timeshare. Last year, it was a Lagunamar contract which we ended up buying off of Ebay. The ebay seller provided Estoppel before I bid.

This time it is a Bluegreen contract. I'm literally on my fourth email asking this agent for a copy of Estoppel with the owner's information blacked out so I can see what's owed, the Trust details, and what we would be actually purchasing. And, for the fourth time the agent has refused to give me those key details instead insisting I make "an offer" before they provide a copy of Estoppel. She has yet to answer any information about the Trust (which is important with a Bluegreen contract).

She has made this transaction so convoluted that I will just find a different contract. Let this be a warning to sellers about Redweek's Full Service service. Unless you really just do not want to sell your timeshare, listing on Tugs yourself maybe a much better way to go.

I’ve had 50/50 good/bad results with RedWeek full service. The bad all came down to lack of knowledge.
Good advise to sellers to post on TUG or RedWeek self service.

 

[dioxide45]

I tend to shy away from the full service listings when looking for weeks to purchase. The problem is that more and more of their listings are going full service. I check Redweek now and then for to see if they have what I am looking for, but they are no longer the first place I look.

 

[vacationtime1]

What bothers me about Redweek's "Full Service" is the mistakes in the ads; Redweek obviously doesn't independently verify seller-provided information. I frequently see ads offering non-existent combinations of # bedrooms / # baths. I see non-existent seasons, out-of-date MF's, etc.

My initial assumption was that Redweek was marketing to less sophisticated sellers to induce them to list list their TS's by offering sellers the promise of some assistance. Given the lack of real assistance -- Redweek provides the information that the seller provides and little more -- I don't see the purpose other than a money grab.

 

[HeidingOut]

The agents cannot have real world experience selling timeshares. Their complete lack of knowledge or experience in this area is dumbfounding. Would you knowingly pay someone to assist in selling your timeshare who lacks just basic knowledge/experience in timeshares? The agents seem like they have literally just walked off the street and have no idea what I'm talking about concerning basic information in regards to these contracts. Then their refusal to supply Estoppel takes the cake. So, you don't have a clue what I'm referring to, but you refuse to let me look at the document so I could at least help myself.

 

[kukenan]

The agents cannot have real world experience selling timeshares. Their complete lack of knowledge or experience in this area is dumbfounding. Would you knowingly pay someone to assist in selling your timeshare who lacks just basic knowledge/experience in timeshares? The agents seem like they have literally just walked off the street and have no idea what I'm talking about concerning basic information in regards to these contracts. Then their refusal to supply Estoppel takes the cake. So, you don't have a clue what I'm referring to, but you refuse to let me look at the document so I could at least help myself.

I bought a TS on ebay, then the seller referred me to his RedWeek "Full Service" listing, I contacted RedWeek, in about 3 days someone from RedWeek contact me, I asked for the Estoppel to verify what I'm buying, they refuse, I said I'm not buying, they said why, because I need the Estoppel, this is full service and it's already verified by us, I don't buy without estoppel, contacted the seller on ebay to notify I'm not buying because RedWeek "Full Service", the seller told me he already lost 2 buyers when he referred them to RedWeek.

 

[theo]

She has made this transaction so convoluted that I will just find a different contract. Let this be a warning to sellers about Redweek's Full Service service. Unless you really just do not want to sell your timeshare, listing on Tugs yourself maybe a much better way to go.

Sadly, it's a bit of a catch-22. Sellers choose to use Redweek's (alleged) "full service" option in order to minimize their own time, effort and involvement in the process. Unfortunately, this "time saving" choice then necessarily brings a "middleman" into the picture who may (and very often does) know absolutely nothing about the resort or other pertinent details and may also be "considerably less than energetic" in obtaining or providing requested additional information.

I understand your frustration, but respectfully submit that RedWeek is a pretty good site for resales --- it's the involvement (and the ineptitude) of "middlemen" that fouls things up. Too many cooks spoil the soup (...or something like that). IMnsHO, sellers advertising on RedWeek would be better served by making the effort to provide their own "full service".

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks @HeidingOut for sharing your experience. It would be great if you could copy your experience on the Redweek Forums so that Redweek is fully aware of these issues.

I suspect that timeshare brokers don't want this service to succeed because the commission is 5x less than the 15% they take so they will not refer clients to these listings even if they are lower cost than MLS. (buyers should be aware of this when they are searching with a broker because they may get a better deal on Redweek directly.)

We've had a "full service" listing for almost 5 months and have not had a single inquiry. They claim there were a few questions but no offers. On the positive side, Redweek was responsive to update the listing with price changes and correcting listing details we requested.

I have suspected that they are slow/inept in responding because I inquired about a few verified listings and it took several days to get a response if I got a response at all.

Will not renew this service if it is not sold by the time the listing expires.

For those who list on Redweek directly, how many bogus inquiries do you get from scammers? One of the reasons we signed up is that we wanted these screened. But perhaps we should simply take it over since this seems to be a waste of money.

 

[theo]

For those who list on Redweek directly, how many bogus inquiries do you get from scammers? One of the reasons we signed up is that we wanted these screened. But perhaps we should simply take it over since this seems to be a waste of money.

Bear in mind that anyone responding to any RedWeek ad (whether rental or resale) must first pay for a RedWeek membership (regardless of whether responding to a personal listing or responding to a "RedWeek full service" listing). I firmly believe that this membership requirement very effectively repels scammers, who obviously don't want to become identified or leave a "paper trail" behind (in the form of membership payment details) if they are of ill intent right from the git go.

I have successfully bought, sold and rented a half dozen or so timeshare weeks on RedWeek in recent years and I have never been contacted by a scammer on RW while doing so. Tire kickers, bargain hunters and occasional strange inquiries from the innocently "timeshare clueless" --- but no scammers.

 

[theo]

I tend to shy away from the full service listings when looking for weeks to purchase. The problem is that more and more of their listings are going full service. I check Redweek now and then for to see if they have what I am looking for, but they are no longer the first place I look.

My sense is that some RedWeek sellers might (incorrectly, IMnsHO) believe that their listing is somehow "enhanced" by the "full service listing " label.

Inexperienced or uneasy prospective buyers might initially have a higher comfort level with that "full service listing" label, but likely not so much when "full service" is quickly revealed to actually be "poor service" if / when requested details are lacking or inaccurate (or denied when requested) and / or responses to inquiries are inexplicably delayed.

 

[bogey21]

I'm literally on my fourth email asking this agent for a copy of Estoppel with the owner's information blacked out so I can see what's owed, the Trust details, and what we would be actually purchasing.

Back when I was more active I probably bought (and later sold) between 25 and 30 TS Weeks. I never asked for an Estoppel. I considered them to only be as good as the person preparing them so I opted to do my own due diligence believing it to be the only way to be certain what I was buying.

George

 

[HeidingOut]

Well, I am a timeshare novice by all accounts. Only one bought/owned. The process went smoothly. I confirmed everything on the estoppel with the contract before signing.

However, I don't know how I would do my due diligence without the estoppel since I don't have the owner's information. I don't know the unit information. I don't know the trust (again important with Blue Green). Basically, all they would tell me was the price and the closing cost fees that I'm responsible for. I haven't even been given the current MF fees. So, with that limited data would this be something anyone else would bid on? Am I missing something? Is there another way to do due diligence without that key data?

Thanks!

 

[vacationtime1]

Back when I was more active I probably bought (and later sold) between 25 and 30 TS Weeks. I never asked for an Estoppel. I considered them to only be as good as the person preparing them so I opted to do my own due diligence believing it to be the only way to be certain what I was buying.

George

I agree that an estoppel is only as good as the person preparing it. That is why an estoppel prepared by the seller's agent is a waste of time.

Estoppels must come from the HOA. And the buyer must know what the estoppel should look like so s/he can watch out for forgeries (yes, I have seen forged estoppels).

I would never buy without one.

 

[theo]

...I don't know how I would do my due diligence without the estoppel since I don't have the owner's information. I don't know the unit information. I don't know the trust (again important with Blue Green). Basically, all they would tell me was the price and the closing cost fees that I'm responsible for. I haven't even been given the current MF fees. So, with that limited data would this be something anyone else would bid on? Am I missing something? Is there another way to do due diligence without that key data?

When you say "bid on", I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you may be referring to eBay auction listing(s).

If so, keep in mind that all eBay auctions on real estate (...yes, including timeshares) are non-binding. If you submit a bid and "win", you can at that time make a very clear and specific demand for a current estoppel (issued, signed and dated by the resort --- not some lame, worthless document prepared ad hoc by the seller) and any and all pertinent details missing from the listing. If the seller declines to provide that information, you are free to decline to proceed any further and just walk away with no consequences. Whether on eBay or elsewhere, you are certainly entitled to know all details and information pertinent to whatever timeshare it is that you are considering purchasing.

 

[presley]

Interesting. I had 3 full service listings go live yesterday and already 2 have "sold." Using quotes because I just accepted the offers, but it's only been about 10 minutes since I accepted, so we will see how it unfolds. In my case, the resorts are buying the timeshares back. Since they prepared the estoppels, I am sure they know what they look like. Who knows, though. Like I said, the ad only went live yesterday and I just accepted a few minutes ago. I won't count my chickens before they hatch, but at this point, as a seller, I like the full serving listings.

 

[theo]

I had 3 full service listings go live yesterday and already 2 have "sold." Using quotes because I just accepted the offers, but it's only been about 10 minutes since I accepted, so we will see how it unfolds. In my case, the resorts are buying the timeshares back. Since they prepared the estoppels, I am sure they know what they look like. Who knows, though. Like I said, the ad only went live yesterday and I just accepted a few minutes ago. I won't count my chickens before they hatch, but at this point, as a seller, I like the full serving listings.

Yours would seem to be a very unusual and unique situation if it's your own resort buying back several unit / weeks.
If they are indeed sincere, the "full service" listing status would likely be of very little consequence to them anyhow.

I suspect that only very rarely would such an odd eventuality occur for any RedWeek listing, "full service" or not. Just the same, I hope that your two transactions go smoothly and successfully close without any unexpected delay or difficulty.

 

[klpca]

I went to send a question two days ago on a full service Redweek listing that I was interested in. (Don't tell my husband, lol). Immediately there was a pop up mentioning that I had previously sent a message about this ad - in May, 2017. I went back and checked - I never received a reply. I don't think that listing is going to sell.

 

[AJCts411]

Just to add, my limited experience with Red week full service...I made an inquiry for a unit that was listed for an amount plus all closing fees. My inquiry was for the normal information like maintenance fees paid, fist use, liens. Response was that I need an estoppel...they only had 2017 info. And to make an offer. Needless to say. That ended by interest. How does a reputable full service provider not have a current estoppel? I think, ignorance or they know the answers to the questions...deceitful.

 

[HeidingOut]

When I was saying "bid on" I was actually referring to the Redweek Full Service Listing. The agent said I could get a copy of Estoppel once I "placed a bid" on the timeshare. On a different failed transaction recently with a liquidation service. And, that agent/owner also stated she would not provide me a copy of estoppel. She stated that the closing company would obtain that during the closing process. I understand Estoppel's can be forged easily I get that. However, it's at least a starting point to verify details with the HOA/resort and get a pretty good idea as to what your are bidding on/buying if it's a legitimate sale.

I'm not understanding why when trying to sell something you would intentionally withhold something a buyer has requested that costs nothing to obtain.

 

[theo]

Just to add, my limited experience with Red week full service...I made an inquiry for a unit that was listed for an amount plus all closing fees. My inquiry was for the normal information like maintenance fees paid, fist use, liens. Response was that I need an estoppel...they only had 2017 info. And to make an offer. Needless to say. That ended by interest. How does a reputable full service provider not have a current estoppel? I think, ignorance or they know the answers to the questions...deceitful.

I don't believe that the Redweek-affiliated brokers are actually "deceitful", but I do believe they are a bit lazy and quite incompetent.

The "full service" gig is a relatively new "feature" on RedWeek. So far, it seems to be a bust, but one hopes that they will get their act together at some point. I assume that they don't really want to unnecessarily create a population of disgruntled and frustrated buyers or sellers dissatisfied with the RedWeek "full service option".

 

[theo]

I'm not understanding why when trying to sell something you would intentionally withhold something a buyer has requested that costs nothing to obtain.

I'm not going to defend laziness and / or incompetence, but I will note that often there is a cost to obtain an estoppel.
Maybe the brokers / agents are just being lazy and don't want to bother to undertake the effort (or the expense).

In a week I recently advertised and sold on RedWeek (on my own --- no "full service" option even momentarily considered), I believe that VRI charged $75 or $100 to prepare and issue the estoppel for my week. So what? If that's what it takes to give the buyer complete information and unit / week verification and sufficient comfort and confidence in my veracity, I am frankly fine with paying that "cost of doing business" as seller-to-be.

That said, once a valid estoppel is issued, signed and dated, that one document can be used multiple times (for a while, anyhow) while dealing with various prospective buyers. Maybe it's just too much effort for the RedWeek agents to redact owner identity on the estoppel (as they appropriately should, for protection of owner privacy until it's a "done deal" and closing is imminent). Or maybe the RedWeek agents are fearful that if the buyer could somehow identify the owner on their own, they might try to take the transaction "offline" and cut out the "middleman" (i.e., the broker / agent) entirely.
I frankly cannot even begin to fathom their (alleged) thought process.

This RedWeek "full service listing" discussion calls to mind an old saying that a former boss occasionally quoted:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone".

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Interesting. I had 3 full service listings go live yesterday and already 2 have "sold." Using quotes because I just accepted the offers, but it's only been about 10 minutes since I accepted, so we will see how it unfolds. In my case, the resorts are buying the timeshares back. Since they prepared the estoppels, I am sure they know what they look like. Who knows, though. Like I said, the ad only went live yesterday and I just accepted a few minutes ago. I won't count my chickens before they hatch, but at this point, as a seller, I like the full serving listings.

Congratulations on your rapid sales. As someone who is using Redweek Full Service to sell my property (with not even a nibble after 4+ months) it is good to see proof of life responding to buyer queries.

May I ask what properties you sold?

 

[dioxide45]

Interesting. I had 3 full service listings go live yesterday and already 2 have "sold." Using quotes because I just accepted the offers, but it's only been about 10 minutes since I accepted, so we will see how it unfolds. In my case, the resorts are buying the timeshares back. Since they prepared the estoppels, I am sure they know what they look like. Who knows, though. Like I said, the ad only went live yesterday and I just accepted a few minutes ago. I won't count my chickens before they hatch, but at this point, as a seller, I like the full serving listings.

Why didn't you just contact the resort directly yourself and save the full service and other Redweek fees?

 

[presley]

May I ask what properties you sold?

Why didn't you just contact the resort directly yourself and save the full service and other Redweek fees?

I don't want to post all the details until everything is done because I don't want to jinx it. I do plan to post about it, though.

 

[pamearsgb]

I don't know if this is the right place to post my frustration. But, here goes. I've now twice attempted to purchase timeshares via redweek. On both transactions which were "full service" transactions, the Redweek agents were just completely unhelpful or maybe uninformed causing the seller to lose the sale of their timeshare. Last year, it was a Lagunamar contract which we ended up buying off of Ebay. The ebay seller provided Estoppel before I bid.

This time it is a Bluegreen contract. I'm literally on my fourth email asking this agent for a copy of Estoppel with the owner's information blacked out so I can see what's owed, the Trust details, and what we would be actually purchasing. And, for the fourth time the agent has refused to give me those key details instead insisting I make "an offer" before they provide a copy of Estoppel. She has yet to answer any information about the Trust (which is important with a Bluegreen contract).

She has made this transaction so convoluted that I will just find a different contract. Let this be a warning to sellers about Redweek's Full Service service. Unless you really just do not want to sell your timeshare, listing on Tugs yourself maybe a much better way to go.

Join Tug.com ($15.00 a year) and ask. They ar there to help with everything timeshare. TUG=Timeshare Users Group

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