Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

[DeniseM]

Please be aware: Posts that attack this info will be deleted. This is not the COVID Forum!

INSIDER: I read TUG a bit, and just to clarify, Mandatory is no longer a status because VSN is dismantled. Everything is now Abound and therefore what was both mandatory and non mandatory are not in Abound unless they buy additional DP's. The simple reason was mandatory was a status in VSN but that program is gone. Anyone who buys Mandatory [after 8/8] will only be able to use the program they bought, not the full 23 resorts. We will continue to sell Vistana inventory until we run out which in Westin Flex and Nanea's case, will be sooner rather than later. Booking in Abound will start 2023 usage and either late September or early October. I hope that helps

DeniseM: Interesting - please give me an example of how that will work - I own the following:
2 bdm. Westin Ka'anapali (developer/mandatory)
2 bdm. Kierland Villas (resale/mandatory)
1 & 2 bdm. Sheraton Desert Oasis (resale/voluntary/not requalified)

INSIDER:

• Anything purchased before 8/8 that was mandatory, [had Staroptions] will be put in Abound.

• It must be purchased and already in the Vistana system by 8/8. That part can take 45 days, if you have a deed before 8/8 but it wasn't registered with Vistana by 8/8 it would not count

• Voluntary deeds purchased before 8/8 would have had to be put in VSN meaning bought extra to get Abound. (Requalified before 8/8 or buy additional deeds from Marriott after 8/8.)

• So both of your Mandatory deeds, regardless of how you bought, will be in.

• I assume you didn't spend extra to put SDO in so it's not in Abound.

• The point is ANYONE who buys what they think is mandatory, after 8/8 even if they are in the process, will only be able to use home resort or resorts. VSN is no more. Madatory was a term for VSN, VSN is officially expired.

 

[Mowogo]

Will be interesting to see the changes that come, since the full sun setting of VSN is not something we were expecting. Though should be some good trader opportunities to purchase resale when everything settles out after.

 

[Erinaadyn]

Does your insider have any information on what’s happening with Harborside ownerships that we bought from the developer?

 

[cubigbird]

I thought Mandatory was part of the legal CC&R of that resort. How can they just do away with it?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Interesting info if true. My quick take:

So they passify most existing mandatory owners by auto-enrolling them in Abound so they can trade into a larger pool of properties and give the high value WKORV and N one of the highest values in the system to incent Vistana deposits.

This enables MVC to reduce IT by eliminating the Vistana booking system.

But what many owners won't realize is that this move devalues resale values of mandatory by killing mandatory being passed on to the new buyer. This will benefit MVC by lowering resale prices making it less costly for them to ROFR into Abound. This will especially affect IV and some OV. Some of the prime OF VOIs will end up like MOC OF Towers which still have high resale but don't participate in the Abound system over time. Such owners will rent or trade in Interval.

Since I read that Kierland (and possibly SVV and St John mandatory?) have lower points values in Abound than Staroptions. I wonder how those owners will react to not being able to use StarOptions to trade? Those that bought these VOIs specifically to trade in SOs appear to lose out.

Still wondering if they can legally shut-down VSN since it is written into the CC&Rs. Perhaps they are getting around this by offering Abound trading as a VSN substitute. But how are they disabling the VSN feature to offer a trading system to all mandatory owners including resale deeds as written in the CC&Rs? Perhaps they plan to ROFR as much as possible so they can mute mandatory by burying them into the trust?

 

[jabberwocky]

I thought Mandatory was part of the legal T&C of that resort. How can they just do away with it?

I agree with you - Mandatory resorts have to be part of the “club”, but it doesn’t state that it has to be VSN - it could be Abound if you read it liberally. There are a few logical issues I have with what is being suggested. But since I don’t want to risk this post being sent to the memory hole I’ll not state them.

 

[kozykritter]

My first thought was Marriott's sales strategy since the soft launch five months ago has been telling owners of unqualified mandatory resales that they had to requalify in order to participate in Abound, which probably lead to million(s) dollars of sales. If what we just read is true and there was never a need to make an additional purchase, then all of those people who purchased as a result were mislead and likely have some type of legal recourse against the company for potential fraud. The SEC also takes a dim view of fraudulent activities by a publicly traded company. This should be interesting!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@kozykritter Wouldn't be the first time a sales person lied or stretched the truth. There is a clause in the contract that the contract supercedes all verbal representations so this will go nowhere legally.

 

[DeniseM]

I thought Mandatory was part of the legal T&C of that resort. How can they just do away with it?

Nope - it was only part of the "Vacation Club," created by Starwood. Remember, a lot of deeds were actually sold pre-Starwood ownership, by other resort developers.

 

[kozykritter]

@kozykritter Wouldn't be the first time a sales person lied or stretched the truth. There is a clause in the contract that the contract supercedes all verbal representations so this will go nowhere legally.

I don't agree. Think RICO. Where there is a concerted organized effort to defraud or perpetrate fraud. I'm not saying that MVW has done that but contract language won't save you if your actions are fraudulent on their face. Otherwise organized crime would use a tool like that to avoid prosecution.

You don't imagine that one of MVW's corporate sales strategies was to get unqualified Vistana owners to requalify using Abound as the carrot? All an attorney would have to do is establish a prima facie case and get to the initial discovery phase where they could request all those corporate and local sales strategy documents. Again, not saying it is fraud but that is how litigation works in these United States.

 

[DeniseM]

Does your insider have any information on what’s happening with Harborside ownerships that we bought from the developer?

The info posted above applies to all former Vistana resorts - "mandatory" resorts will automatically be in Abound.

 

[cubigbird]

So then if what the insider is saying that they are essentially doing away with VSN / dismantling it, how would one exchange internally within VSN resorts if they choose not elect to elect in Abound? I thought Abound was just an overlay program?

 

[kozykritter]

Does your insider have any information on what’s happening with Harborside ownerships that we bought from the developer?

What the insider said was that all properties that were in VSN as of August 8th would automatically be placed in Abound instead. That would include developer-purchased Harborside.

 

[DeniseM]

Abound, or external exchange companies like II and RCI.

 

[Red elephant]

So then if what the insider is saying that they are essentially doing away with VSN / dismantling it, how would one exchange internally within VSN resorts if they choose not elect to elect in Abound? I thought Abound was just an overlay program?

This is the question I have for those of us not planning to enroll in Abound but want to continue using staroptions in VSN.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I don't agree. Think RICO. Where there is a concerted organized effort to defraud or perpetrate fraud. I'm not saying that MVW has done that but contract language won't save you if your actions are fraudulent on their face. Otherwise organized crime would use a tool like that to avoid prosecution.

Well...to use your logic, I presume the $18 million rescinded by timeshare buyers after finding by TUG and the millions more who were stuck past rescission were not told the truth by sales so can file a class action suit?

 

[DeniseM]

This is the question I have for those of us not planning to enroll in Abound but want to continue using staroptions in VSN.

I think it's pretty clear that Staroptions and VSN are going to be history, once Abound kicks in.

But if you had Staroptions before (mandatory resort) then you will be able to trade in Abound.

If you didn't have Staroptions before, (voluntary resort) then nothing has really changed.

 

[kozykritter]

Well...to use your logic, I presume the $18 million rescinded by timeshare buyers after finding by TUG and the millions more who were stuck past rescission were not told the truth by sales so can file a class action suit?

That is not a concerted corporate strategy like I was mentioning. Not going to argue this with you. Just how litigation works.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We'll just agree to disagree. This is an industry-wide strategy.

 

[cubigbird]

I think it's pretty clear that Staroptions and VSN are going to be history, once Abound kicks in.

But if you had Staroptions before (mandatory resort) then you will be able to trade in Abound.

If you didn't have Staroptions before, (voluntary resort) then nothing has really changed.

@DeniseM My VOIs are all qualified. But what if I don’t want to trade in Abound, and be subject to a “skim” over there? What if I want to take my week of staroptions, 148,100 for example, and book a week at another VSE resort?

 

[dioxide45]

Please be aware: Posts that attack this info will be deleted. This is not the COVID Forum!

I'm sorry, but why is this information from yet another "respected source" not open to the scrutiny that any other information provided by others is? This is a discussion forum after all. Why is your information somehow protected?

 

[Red elephant]

I think it's pretty clear that Staroptions and VSN are going to be history, once Abound kicks in.

But if you had Staroptions before (mandatory resort) then you will be able to trade in Abound.

If you didn't have Staroptions before, (voluntary resort) then nothing has really changed.

Actually this is not clear at all. I thought enrolling in Abound was optional .

 

[kozykritter]

Please be aware: Posts that attack this info will be deleted. This is not the COVID Forum!

INSIDER: I read TUG a bit, and just to clarify, Mandatory is no longer a status because VSN is dismantled. Everything is now Abound and therefore what was both mandatory and non mandatory are not in Abound unless they buy additional DP's. The simple reason was mandatory was a status in VSN but that program is gone. Anyone who buys Mandatory [after 8/8] will only be able to use the program they bought, not the full 23 resorts. We will continue to sell Vistana inventory until we run out which in Westin Flex and Nanea's case, will be sooner rather than later. Booking in Abound will start 2023 usage and either late September or early October. I hope that helps

DeniseM: Interesting - please give me an example of how that will work - I own the following:
2 bdm. Westin Ka'anapali (developer/mandatory)
2 bdm. Kierland Villas (resale/mandatory)
1 & 2 bdm. Sheraton Desert Oasis (resale/voluntary/not requalified)

INSIDER:

• Anything purchased before 8/8 that was mandatory, will be put in Abound.

• It must be purchased and already in the Vistana system by 8/8. That part can take 45 days, if you have a deed before 8/8 but it wasn't registered with Vistana by 8/8 it would not count

• Voluntary deeds purchased before 8/8 would have had to be put in VSN meaning bought extra to get Abound. (Requalified before 8/8 or buy additional deeds from Marriott after 8/8.)

• So both of your Mandatory deeds, regardless of how you bought, will be in.

• I assume you didn't spend extra to put SDO in so it's not in Abound.

• The point is ANYONE who buys what they think is mandatory, after 8/8 even if they are in the process, will only be able to use home resort or resorts. VSN is no more. Madatory was a term for VSN, VSN is officially expired.

That part I find hard to swallow is that they could change the nature of how a resale mandatory ownership can be used without notifying all current owners of such properties before or on the date that they changed it! To allow people to go on making resale purchases thinking they would have StarOptions and access to 22 other properties. Might be legal but certainly is ethically questionable.

 

[Red elephant]

@DeniseM My VOIs are all qualified. But what if I don’t want to trade in Abound? What if I want to take my week of staroptions, 148,100 for example, and book a week at another VSE resort?

My thoughts exactly .

 

[kozykritter]

What appears to be happening is the StarOptions exchange function will still used among those properties in the VSN as of 8/8 but that process will now happen within the Abound exchange platform, still using StarOptions. That would make the most sense since we've been told that converting to DP is a usage option for our ownership and that the internal Vistana system of exchanging wouldn't change. To be able to do the StarOption exchange and DP conversion functions for the same ownership would be most effective if done within the same IT platform. This moving of the system to the Abound platform would explain these frequent planned and unplanned outages.