Vistana Now Part of Marriott Vacations Worldwide

[DannyTS]

I've been to WLR twice. I love the décor. I love the green tiles. I love the off white floor tiles. The whole thing looks/feels fresh, clean, hip, modern and bigger than its actual size. Also, the floor to ceiling windows are amazing. IMHO an amazing property overall.

it seems that it is TravelTime's time to go to Lagunamar

 

[TravelTime]

I looked up the SO charts. WLR is much fewer points in lower season. A 2 BR at WLR is 81,000 SOs in low season, the same as a 1 br in Hawaii. So I suspect MVC would not value Mexico the same as Hawaii and other more expensive locations. It seems like Vistana increased the SOs for WLR for sales purposes. Longer term, this does not make sense to maintain. I see what Ken555 means when he says Vistana has revalued the higher end locations, which effectively devalues the less expensive options.

Also if WLR is a voluntary resort, then it would be less valuable than a mandatory resort. I suspect MVC would give better enrollment options to owners of mandatory resorts because they would be losing the ability to exchange within Vistana. Voluntary owners only get HomeOptions, which are valuable for internal exchanging.

 

[TravelTime]

it seems that it is TravelTime's time to go to Lagunamar

Yes I will go in the next 2 years, for sure! I do like the pool and lobby. I still do not like green and blue tiles, and I doubt a stay there will change my mind about the tiles. But I will probably like the resort overall. I like the interior design of the new Westin in Cancun much better. For me, the deciding factor will be how calm the ocean is. If the ocean is calm and swimmable, I could care less about ugly tiles. LOL I do really like the WLR pool and views. I like the way the pool and ocean join together. I stayed at the Intercontinental’s compound which is so ugly on the outside but loved its beach. Probably the best beach in Mexico outside of Isla Mujeres.

 

[TravelTime]

What if they switch the tiles and put blue tiles in the kitchen and green tiles in the bathroom? Can we all agree on that?

I think they should go back to the original color scheme with green, blue, purple and pink. It reminds me of Temptation Cancun! Okay, time to close off this thread!

 

[DannyTS]

I looked up the SO charts. WLR is much fewer points in lower season. A 2 BR at WLR is 81,000 SOs in low season, the same as a 1 br in Hawaii. So I suspect MVC would not value Mexico the same as Hawaii and other more expensive locations. It seems like Vistana increased the SOs for WLR for sales purposes. Longer term, this does not make sense to maintain. I see what Ken555 means when he says Vistana has revalued the higher end locations, which effectively devalues the less expensive options.

All Vistana resorts except Hawaii have lower number of SOs in the low season. This tells nothing about WLR.
With the rest we are just speculating but i still find it likely for the MVC will put a premium on the beach resorts where there is no overlap with all the other Marriott and Hyatt resorts.

 

[TravelTime]

All Vistana resorts except Hawaii have lower number of SOs in the low season. This tells nothing about WLR.
With the rest we are just speculating but i still find it likely for the MVC will put a premium on the beach resorts where there is no overlap with all the other Marriott and Hyatt resorts.

Just speculation but I do not think MVC will put an equivalent premium on Mexico resorts even if it is beachfront and there is little overlap in the current MVC system. Also WLR and others in Mexico are voluntary resorts so you are not allowed to exchange within Vistana system. You own one resort, correct? Can you exchange into other Vistana resorts?

 

[DannyTS]

Just speculation but I do not think MVC will put an equivalent premium on Mexico resorts even if it is beachfront and there is little overlap in the current MVC system. Also WLR and others in Mexico are voluntary resorts so you are not allowed to exchange within Vistana system. You own one resort, correct? Can you exchange into other Vistana resorts?

I own a mandatory as well (and HGVC but that is besides the point) . We are speculating that they would invite voluntary resorts to enroll as well in the DP. I think that mandatory and voluntary bought from the developer may enroll automatically. As I said before, if they do not or if the enrollment fee is more than a few hundreds i am going to pass. At this moment our problem is that we would like to have more vacation time not that we desperately need DP.

 

[TravelTime]

I own a mandatory as well (and HGVC but that is besides the point) . We are speculating that they would invite voluntary resorts to enroll as well in the DP. I think that mandatory and voluntary bought from the developer may enroll automatically. As I said before, if they do not or if the enrollment fee is more than a few hundreds i am going to pass. At this moment our problem is that we would like to have more vacation time not that we desperately need DP.

Voluntary resort owners own one resort so they do not lose anything with the merger. Only mandatory resort owners are in a points program now. That is why I suspect MVC will make a better offer to high demand mandatory resort owners. I also think MVC will take MFs into account in terms of the various mandatory resorts. Many current owners of the SVV and WKV purshased them as a trader for entree into the VSE network. I do not think resale owners are the target market for MVC.

 

[DannyTS]

By the way, i find the whole discussion about voluntary/ mandatory something that is only found in the TS world. If you are an owner, you should be able to transmit all the features of the contract. If i buy a house with a garage, guess what, i can sell a house with a garage. It is only in this world that they are so cheeky to sell people deeds that are worth next to nothing the next day. I know that the points are only part of the picture but still...

To make the conversation more interesting (for me) I always tell sales people that I would only buy from them if they can guarantee the exact same rights to the potential buyer in case i have to sell.

 

[DannyTS]

Voluntary resort owners own one resort so they do not lose anything with the merger. Only mandatory resort owners are in a points program now. That is why I suspect MVC will make a better offer to high demand mandatory resort owners.

I know you are hinting about Hawaii but it makes little sense since Marriott already has so many resorts there. For the record, i believe that they will want as many Vistana owners enrolled as possible and make money that way.

It is said that TUG has put a $500,000 reward for the closest prediction!
(you know i am joking lol)

 

[TravelTime]

I think St John is the most valuable resort in Vistana. I think Hawaii and Nassau are in the second tier. These are the hardest resorts to book unless you own.

 

[Ken555]

By the way, i find the whole discussion about voluntary/ mandatory something that is only found in the TS world. If you are an owner, you should be able to transmit all the features of the contract. If i buy a house with a garage, guess what, i can sell a house with a garage. It is only in this world that they are so cheeky to sell people deeds that are worth next to nothing the next day. I know that the points are only part of the picture but still...

To make the conversation more interesting (for me) I always tell sales people that I would only buy from them if they can guarantee the exact same rights to the potential buyer in case i have to sell.

This is all part of my earlier comment re purposefully creating confusing systems to benefit (developer) sales.

 

[Ken555]

Just speculation but I do not think MVC will put an equivalent premium on Mexico resorts even if it is beachfront and there is little overlap in the current MVC system. Also WLR and others in Mexico are voluntary resorts so you are not allowed to exchange within Vistana system. You own one resort, correct? Can you exchange into other Vistana resorts?

Those who purchased voluntary resorts from the developer have StarOptions. Those same StarOptions don't transfer to a new owner in the event they sell their week.

 

[TravelTime]

By the way, i find the whole discussion about voluntary/ mandatory something that is only found in the TS world. If you are an owner, you should be able to transmit all the features of the contract. If i buy a house with a garage, guess what, i can sell a house with a garage. It is only in this world that they are so cheeky to sell people deeds that are worth next to nothing the next day. I know that the points are only part of the picture but still...

To make the conversation more interesting (for me) I always tell sales people that I would only buy from them if they can guarantee the exact same rights to the potential buyer in case i have to sell.

This discussion is only relevant to resale owners. Outside of resale, this has no meaning.

 

[TravelTime]

Those who purchased voluntary resorts from the developer have StarOptions. Those same StarOptions don't transfer to a new owner in the event they sell their week.

Yes and they are the most valuable Vistana owners bc they purchased retail. MVC will want to treat them with kid gloves. They are worth a lot more revenue to MVC than I represent!

 

[Ken555]

I think St John is the most valuable resort in Vistana. I think Hawaii and Nassau are in the second tier. These are the hardest resorts to book unless you own.

Um... I don't think we should discuss relative "value" in this thread, since it's either objective based on cost or highly subjective based on any other factor.

 

[TravelTime]

Um... I don't think we should discuss relative "value" in this thread, since it's either objective based on cost or highly subjective based on any other factor.

I do not own at WSJ. However I see it as the most valuable resort for objective reasons. It is the most expensive to purchase and it is the hardest to exchange into. It never appears in II either. Frankly, I have heard that it is not the most beautiful resort on St John and the location is not great, but it is the only real resort on St John. There are some good deals to purchase resale now but that is only due to the hurricane and slow re-building.

 

[Ken555]

Yes and they are the most valuable Vistana owners bc they purchased retail. MVC will want to treat them with kid gloves. They are worth a lot more revenue to MVC than I represent!

Yes, of course. I suspect that if they offer an integration option in the future (and I'm not convinced they will), it will be ~$1000-2000 per week, but it's just a guess just like all others. I also suspect they will admit all weeks, regardless of ownership type or where you purchased it, at least up to a certain date (as Marriott did previously).

Like others, I see zero advantage at this time to convert my weeks assuming my existing ability to trade within the current group of resorts remains. If, on the other hand, Marriott opts to terminate the StarOption club altogether (which they can do) it would be a different story. Naturally, I doubt they would implement such an extreme change as it would only create negativity amongst their good customers.

 

[dioxide45]

if you book a week and the decide you want a different week - no cancellation fee, unemployed Marriott owners pay the fee.

Discriminatory to be charging unemployed people more money. Those are the ones that can least afford it!

You can book at WLR for under $200 a night on Expedia so yes, the market has validated the value.

I think this will probably be one of the biggest reasons that they don't offer up as many DC points for WLR as they would for Hawaii properties. Also consider that another resort in Cancun is online. So WLR isn't the only game in town. Marriott also setup their initial DC point levels based on sales price, not really based on demand. If I understand correctly, they generally took the last known selling price of a season/view and divided it by 10 and that was the DC point value that they offered to owners. Our Grand Vista was offered 2,175 DC points and it roughly sold for $22K when DC came about. Know they may go to a more supply/demand standpoint with any new allocations when they bring new resorts online.

I still simply don't see them offering Cancun as many DC points as they do for any of the Hawaii properties There is so much inventory available in Cancun it isn't funny. Cancun is like Orlando, overbuilt. There are so many options in Cancun, in and outside of timeshare. We do BTW, love Cancun and WLR.

For me, the deciding factor will be how calm the ocean is. If the ocean is calm and swimmable, I could care less about ugly tiles.

It could be considered swimmable, but nothing like Aruba or other parts of the Caribbean. Cancun is open to the Caribbean sea with no real offshore reef to protect it. If you go further south to the Riviera Maya, then the reef helps protect the shore and the ocean isn't as rough.

By the way, i find the whole discussion about voluntary/ mandatory something that is only found in the TS world. If you are an owner, you should be able to transmit all the features of the contract. If i buy a house with a garage, guess what, i can sell a house with a garage. It is only in this world that they are so cheeky to sell people deeds that are worth next to nothing the next day. I know that the points are only part of the picture but still...

To make the conversation more interesting (for me) I always tell sales people that I would only buy from them if they can guarantee the exact same rights to the potential buyer in case i have to sell.

Voluntary/Mandatory is a Vistana thing. Their early properties had the SVN program rules embedded in the condo CC&R documents, thus all owners at those resorts are required to be in SVN/VSN. Then later Starwood realized that they were selling something that they knew later on they wouldn't be able to compete with. So they no longer wrote those SVN rules in to the underlying documents.

 

[TravelTime]

Yes, of course. I suspect that if they offer an integration option in the future (and I'm not convinced they will), it will be ~$1000-2000 per week, but it's just a guess just like all others. I also suspect they will admit all weeks, regardless of ownership type or where you purchased it, at least up to a certain date (as Marriott did previously).

Like others, I see zero advantage at this time to convert my weeks assuming my existing ability to trade within the current group of resorts remains. If, on the other hand, Marriott opts to terminate the StarOption club altogether (which they can do) it would be a different story. Naturally, I doubt they would implement such an extreme change as it would only create negativity amongst their good customers.

You must remember that all pre-2010 Marriott weeks had the same benefits. Not all Vistana weeks have the same benefits. That is the only reason I suspect MVC will value Vistana resorts differently. Also in 2010, MVC had a blank slate and was able to identify “fair” points values across all resorts (Fair in quotes of course). If I were offered the opportunity to enroll my Vistana week for $2000, I would jump at the offer.

 

[Ken555]

I do not own at WSJ. However I see it as the most valuable resort for objective reasons. It is the most expensive to purchase and it is the hardest to exchange into. It never appears in II either. Frankly, I have heard that it is not the most beautiful resort on St John and the location is not great, but it is the only real resort on St John. There are some good deals to purchase resale now but that is only due to the hurricane and slow re-building.

Is it really now the most expensive to purchase? Resale or retail? It's more expensive than resale WKORV OF? Consistently?

 

[TravelTime]

Is it really now the most expensive to purchase? Resale or retail? It's more expensive than resale WKORV OF? Consistently?

No not more than WKOVR Center OF but given the inconsistent views and lack of categories, it is more expensive on average because it is on St John.

 

[Ken555]

No not more than WKOVR Center OF but given the inconsistent views and lack of categories, it is more expensive on average because it is on St John.

Then it seems your value list is already incorrect. I don't think valuing the resorts in this manner is helpful in any way. Some are more difficult trade into. Some have great views. Some are in Hawaii. It's all about variety, which is why many of us bought. For you, WSJ is the most valuable. For me, it's among the least valuable (note I haven't been there).


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[Ken555]

Voluntary/Mandatory is a Vistana thing. Their early properties had the SVN program rules embedded in the condo CC&R documents, thus all owners at those resorts are required to be in SVN/VSN. Then later Starwood realized that they were selling something that they knew later on they wouldn't be able to compete with. So they no longer wrote those SVN rules in to the underlying documents.

I don't recall the details, but I belive earlier (years ago) threads that discussed this issue mentioned some legal reasons why some resorts are mandatory. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if the developer found ways around them.


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[TravelTime]

Then it seems your value list is already incorrect. I don't think valuing the resorts in this manner is helpful in any way. Some are more difficult trade into. Some have great views. Some are in Hawaii. It's all about variety, which is why many of us bought. For you, WSJ is the most valuable. For me, it's among the least valuable (note I haven't been there).


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If I could get a guaranteed reservation at WKOVR center oceanfront, that would be worth many more points to me than WSJ, even though I value St John higher than Hawaii. hence, that is why I think MVC will value things accordingly when they convert Vistana owners to DPs. In general, while I may not be a typical TUGGER, I am somewhat of a typical consumer. I think MVC should add views to WSJ so they can charge more points for units with better views...but that is unlikely due to the trees.