TUG Facebook Group: Question from a person who owns Massanutten because parents added them to the deed. Are they liable for MF's?

[rickandcindy23]

This is a great question. There are some posts saying that if they didn't sign, they aren't liable for fees. Is that true? I don't think so. I think their parents shouldn't have put their names on the deeds.

I am currently trying to reverse some mistakes I made with adding kids to weeks we have owned for 12+ years. No reason to have them stuck with paying fees.

I think there are a lot of "armchair lawyers," on the Facebook group. I would like to hear the truth and not conjecture.

 

[noreenkate]

This is a great question. There are some posts saying that if they didn't sign, they aren't liable for fees. Is that true? I don't think so. I think their parents shouldn't have put their names on the deeds.

I am currently trying to reverse some mistakes I made with adding kids to weeks we have owned for 12+ years. No reason to have them stuck with paying fees.

I think there are a lot of "armchair lawyers," on the Facebook group. I would like to hear the truth and not conjecture.

Exactly why I will not put my kids names on anything...

 

[geist1223]

I would question the Legailty of adding a Person's name to a Deed or Points Account without their consent and them signing some type of Document agreeing and acknowledging.

 

[dioxide45]

In this event the person who is on the deed but doesn't think they should be would need to take legal action to get their name removed.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

In this event the person who is on the deed but doesn't think they should be would need to take legal action to get their name removed.

Yeah, it’s this. From a legal standpoint you cant’ just “add someone to a deed” without their permission / having them sign something, etc. However, as a practical matter, they’d need to bring some kind of action in court (likely against the person who added them to the deed) to get themselves removed.

As an even more practical matter however, @rickandcindy23 if you are just trying to remove kids from the deed, just draft and record new deeds (signed by everyone including the kids) that don’t have the kids on the deed. You can either do this yourself (I know you’ve posted you have some experience there), or you can pay a closing service a few hundred bucks.

 

[GrayFal]

In this event the person who is on the deed but doesn't think they should be would need to take legal action to get their name removed.

Both parents died rather unexpectedly and close together.
The adult children found out when they got MF in dads name and checked the paperwork that they were also on the deed.

Soooooo, no removing them by original owner.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I can remove the names, or I can sell some of them and remove their names without the falderal. We own too many Sheratons. They aren't on many of the Marriott deeds. Would like to sell a few more of those as well. Timeshare resales are not doing well in this economy, and I am competing with ebay.

 

[dioxide45]

Both parents died rather unexpectedly and close together.
The adult children found out when they got MF in dads name and checked the paperwork that they were also on the deed.

Soooooo, no removing them by original owner.

I would think that legal action to get them off the deed would need to be taken within a reasonable amount of time from when they were added to the deed. I suspect that dad thought it would be great to just have his kids put on the deed when he bought the timeshare. They only needed dad to pay the money, the timeshare company didn't care who was on the deed. Dad could also at anytime add anyone to the deed, even without their knowledge. I suspect quiet title could fix this, but the children would need to prove they were unaware they were being added to the deed and it would also be rather expensive legal action.

 

[noreenkate]

. I suspect that dad thought it would be great to just have his kids put on the deed when he bought the timeshare. They only needed dad to pay the money, the timeshare company didn't care who was on the deed. Dad could also at anytime add anyone to the deed, even without their knowledge.

Can that actually happen? I am by know means an attorney but I was under the impression that some sort of consent is actually needed to file the deed.

I have no idea how Massanutten works and what is visible on the owner’s portal.(the resort mentioned in the original post)
Would love to hear from owners there.
What I am curious about is the anonymous participant mentioned that is where they viewed the deed…The deed in the portal showed no signatures not even the parents.

Is that resort actually real deeded property?
Was the op actually viewing a deed on the portal?
Does Virginia ( I think that‘s where it is ) actually allow deeds without signature?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Can that actually happen? I am by know means an attorney but I was under the impression that some sort of consent is actually needed to file the deed.

Consent is absolutely needed. However, as a practical matter, the county clerk doesn’t check to make sure there was consent to accept a deed for filing. So even if there was no consent, the person who is on the deed (but shouldn’t be) would likely need to take some sort of legal action to get their name off the deed. They’d win that legal action, because they never gave consent, but it would still require them to affirmatively do something.

The question that isn’t being asked, but is likely what people are really wondering, is what happens if the person who is wrongfully on the deed just doesn’t do that, doesn’t pay MF, and the resort forecloses? In that scenario, I would bet they could contest having a foreclosure on their credit reports, but I am by no means an expert in this area. They also could successfuly fight a resort that tried to hold them personally liable for unpaid maintenance fees, but resorts don’t really do that anyway, as deficiency judgments are unheard of in timeshare foreclosures.

 

[rickandcindy23]

A perfect stranger can file a deed and pay the resort transfer fee, and you will own that timeshare legally because no signature is required of the new owner. That's how it is in every county so far that I have filed deeds. However, the resort systems do require a picture of the driver's license of the new owner or owners. That is how the resort knows that the deed is valid.

 

[noreenkate]

Consent is absolutely needed. However, as a practical matter, the county clerk doesn’t check to make sure there was consent to accept a deed for filing. So even if there was no consent, the person who is on the deed (but shouldn’t be) would likely need to take some sort of legal action to get their name off the deed. They’d win that legal action, because they never gave consent, but it would still require them to affirmatively do something.

The question that isn’t being asked, but is likely what people are really wondering, is what happens if the person who is wrongfully on the deed just doesn’t do that, doesn’t pay MF, and the resort forecloses? In that scenario, I would bet they could contest having a foreclosure on their credit reports, but I am by no means an expert in this area. They also could successfuly fight a resort that tried to hold them personally liable for unpaid maintenance fees, but resorts don’t really do that anyway, as deficiency judgments are unheard of in timeshare foreclosures.

So I guess my question is more along the lines of is that resort a deeded week vs a trust…
Now again not an attorney not an owner there…
Would a trust still be filed in the local county clerk ect?

Again I was pretty familiar with how things worked with DVC until the Palmetto Trust. With my deeded membership I was able t add an “associate owner” not on the deed but gave the associate ability to make and cancel reservations…is it possible something like that exists with that resort?

 

[sponger76]

So I guess my question is more along the lines of is that resort a deeded week vs a trust…
Would a trust still be filed in the local county clerk ect?

At least with Vistana (Sheraton, Westin) Flex point trusts, a deed is filed with the county exactly the same as with a deeded week.

 

[TUGBrian]

if i found myself in this situation id first reach out to the resort to ask what they would be willing to do to accept this ownership back free and clear....

if they were not helpful, id stop paying and let them sort it out after explaining that I was added to the ownership without my knowledge, permission or signature.

 

[noreenkate]

At least with Vistana (Sheraton, Westin) Flex point trusts, a deed is filed with the county exactly the same as with a deeded week.

Yeah that’s why I asked it seems some do some don’t kinda thing..
I may be wrong but I don’t think Club Wyndham Access points are registered in any particular country clerk…

 

[Nomad420]

As I mentioned on another thread I just sold my TS at Iron Blosam and for what it worth the guy that bought it is putting it in his estate. I have no idea if that would spare the children with getting stuck with paying the MF's if they didn't want it.

 

[MOXJO7282]

A perfect stranger can file a deed and pay the resort transfer fee, and you will own that timeshare legally because no signature is required of the new owner. That's how it is in every county so far that I have filed deeds. However, the resort systems do require a picture of the driver's license of the new owner or owners. That is how the resort knows that the deed is valid.

This is not accurate. There is no way you can make someone financially liable for something without their consent via some contract. You need a signed contract by all parties. If the children fight this they will win. I'd assume a properly worded legal document would make the resort see the error in their position and they would be forced to take the deed back.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is not accurate. There is no way you can make someone financially liable for something without their consent via some contract. You need a signed contract by all parties. If the children fight this they will win. I'd assume a properly worded legal document would make the resort see the error in their position and they would be forced to take the deed back.

I had a person quit claim a week to me that I didn't want, simply because I told him it would be easy to give away. I got the quit claim in the mail and an invoice a month later. It was Polynesian Resort Villas in Kissimmee, FL. If you know my last name, it's not tough to find me. I gave the week away on TUG. This was about 15 years ago. I wrote about it.

The thing is, who is going to fight, should someone does that to another person? How much money are you willing to spend?

Now most companies require a driver's license for transfer into a new owner's name. That's a good thing, but it didn't use to be a requirement. It's a great change.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I had a person quit claim a week to me that I didn't want, simply because I told him it would be easy to give away. I got the quit claim in the mail and an invoice a month later. It was Polynesian Resort Villas in Kissimmee, FL. If you know my last name, it's not tough to find me. I gave the week away on TUG. This was about 15 years ago. I wrote about it.

The thing is, who is going to fight, should someone does that to another person? How much money are you willing to spend?

Now most companies require a driver's license for transfer into a new owner's name. That's a good thing, but it didn't use to be a requirement. It's a great change.

Just because you didn't fight it doesn't mean it wasn't illegal. Not surprising an Orlando TS scammed you. You could've simply said to the resort provide proof of my ownership and they wouldn't have been able to and would've went away had you not accepted the invoice.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Just because you didn't fight it doesn't mean it wasn't illegal. Not surprising an Orlando TS scammed you. You could've simply said to the resort provide proof of my ownership and they wouldn't have been able to and would've went away had you not accepted the invoice.

I asked for advice on TUG, and they said to give it away, so I did. It's all on TUG somewhere.

 

[dioxide45]

This is not accurate. There is no way you can make someone financially liable for something without their consent via some contract. You need a signed contract by all parties. If the children fight this they will win. I'd assume a properly worded legal document would make the resort see the error in their position and they would be forced to take the deed back.

If a resort gets a deed with someone's name on it, they are going to add that person to the ownership in their system. A deed makes you an owner and I am only aware of one state where a buyer needs to also sign a deed. Every other state only requires the grantor (seller to sign). As you mention, it would require the children to fight it to have their name removed, but as previously noted it requires some sort of legal action. Especially in the situation noted where there are multiple other names on the deed.

The deed which is tied to the resort CC&Rs are what makes the contract between owners and the requirement to pay annual assessments.

 

[dioxide45]

Just because you didn't fight it doesn't mean it wasn't illegal. Not surprising an Orlando TS scammed you. You could've simply said to the resort provide proof of my ownership and they wouldn't have been able to and would've went away had you not accepted the invoice.

A resort doesn't require a copy of the purchase contract in order to update their ownership record. A deed is all it takes. They assume the deed is proof of ownership. It would require the grantee to challenge the incorrect deed in order to get their name legally removed. I guess they could also draw up a new deed and assign it back to the prior owner. It could become a merry-go-round of deeds.

 

[jp10558]

It did seem crazy to me that the deeds could be filed without me signing anything - I had to sign a car title to buy it so it's real weird that real property doesn't work that way. But that seems to be the case from the various deeds I've bought or taken over for timeshares. I think so far one required me to click a docusign kind of thing, and only Explora required my drivers license copy and a notarized physical signed form to take over (and I still don't know if that actually went through yet).

 

[WorldT]

A perfect stranger can file a deed and pay the resort transfer fee, and you will own that timeshare legally because no signature is required of the new owner. That's how it is in every county so far that I have filed deeds. However, the resort systems do require a picture of the driver's license of the new owner or owners. That is how the resort knows that the deed is valid.

True! Which begs the question, how did Vacation Village register them without their ID? Or did the parents include a copy of their ID without their knowledge?

 

[WorldT]

I own at two different VV properties and both required an ID to proceed with the transfers.