TUG Facebook Group: Question from a person who owns Massanutten because parents added them to the deed. Are they liable for MF's?

[TUGBrian]

Believe this is one of those situations where neither party wants to go thru the trouble of "making things right"

ie should the children fight to claim they never truly provided permission to be added as owners (no signature, not even any knowledge) this would be a relatively easy win...if not a cumbersome process to go thru for both the resort, and wherever the deed is recorded etc.

also i highly doubt the resort is going to die on this hill knowing full well they were happy to "play along" with a parent who added children to their ownership without their knowledge/consent or signature.

not that ANY of this would ever see a courtroom that is.

 

[dioxide45]

Believe this is one of those situations where neither party wants to go thru the trouble of "making things right"

ie should the children fight to claim they never truly provided permission to be added as owners (no signature, not even any knowledge) this would be a relatively easy win...if not a cumbersome process to go thru for both the resort, and wherever the deed is recorded etc.

also i highly doubt the resort is going to die on this hill knowing full well they were happy to "play along" with a parent who added children to their ownership without their knowledge/consent or signature.

not that ANY of this would ever see a courtroom that is.

While it wouldn't see a courtroom, it still requires one of two things to happen. In the case here as I understand it, they could take it through probate as possibly the easiest solution if there was someone willing to take the timeshare. Then probate along with the children would sign the deed over to whomever is the new owner. If the children don't want it, then it would require quiet title to take their names off the deed. Quiet Title requires a judge to issue and sign formal judgment regarding proper ownership of the deed. Both require the courts.

 

[TUGBrian]

but thats back to the point of neither side willing to jump through those hoops.... if the resort wasnt willing to work with me (assuming im the child here) to clear this up and take it back, they can go jump in a lake and spend their own time/effort/whatever to clean all that mess up and recover the title themselves.

In the original post, none of the siblings wanted the ownership and all were surprised to discover they were listed on the deed as owners.

 

[dioxide45]

but thats back to the point of neither side willing to jump through those hoops.... if the resort wasnt willing to work with me (assuming im the child here) to clear this up and take it back, they can go jump in a lake and spend their own time/effort/whatever to clean all that mess up and recover the title themselves.

In the original post, none of the siblings wanted the ownership and all were surprised to discover they were listed on the deed as owners.

But in order for the resort to take it back, it still requires the first option I mentioned; probate.

Walking away and letting the resort recover the title is an option but that will lead to a foreclosure on the title. The father (deceased) and kids will all be named in the foreclosure. That may or may not matter. The HOA/property can't just magically remove the kids names from the deed.

 

[LeslieDet]

I would think that legal action to get them off the deed would need to be taken within a reasonable amount of time from when they were added to the deed. I suspect that dad thought it would be great to just have his kids put on the deed when he bought the timeshare. They only needed dad to pay the money, the timeshare company didn't care who was on the deed. Dad could also at anytime add anyone to the deed, even without their knowledge. I suspect quiet title could fix this, but the children would need to prove they were unaware they were being added to the deed and it would also be rather expensive legal action.

It isn't a quiet title action; that is done when the person who owns the property finds out that there is some other legal claim to ownership, and thus the owner seeks to quiet title as against the unknown or unwanted person in the owner's name.

If a dad added his adult kids to a deed, they do not need to sign anything, but a gift does need to be accepted. The question in this scenario is what is acceptance? Did dad tell them? Is this all a surprise to them? If it was never legally accepted, then the question becomes when did they learn of the gift? Did dad tell them years ago in passing and they just ignored it; or did it happen recently, years after the deed?

I've never seen the opposite of a quiet title action, but I believe it may be a handled as a declaratory relief action that would be filed against the now deceased father's estate, to make that estate liable for the ownership and costs associated with same. But if that is the estate that the kids whose names are on the title, then they are basically suing their inheritance, and it is probably a waste of money. The good news is that if they were added as a JTWROS then they don't have to probate the estate as it pertains to the timeshare and they can sell, deed back, etc., without seeking court approval. They are just like any other owner who no longer want to own.

 

[TUGBrian]

I agree, but im happy to let them jump through all those hoops ahead of time vs spending a lick of my time/money/effort doing it if I knew full well I never agreed to or gave permission to be added as an owner. It really all depends on how the resort responds to the situation, and IIRC in that post...the resort told them they were on their own to dispose of the timeshare...which i found ridiculous.

Had they said "oh well since you are the only living owners on record and this was clearly some sort of mistake, lets handle the paperwork for you and your siblings to sign to surrender this back and clear it all up" then thats a whole different matter! Heck id probably even pay the cost of the transfer just to be over and done with it as that would be a reasonable ask.

the resort in this equation is the only one that truly wants the ownership in their name and they can pay for that privilege if they are not willing to provide an amicable solution to the mess they created in the first place. Should I eventually be named in a foreclosure (doubt it would happen, vs eventually the resort reaching out to obtain signatures for a deed in lieu)...at that point id begin my defense claim of no signature, no permission, no knowledge, etc.

If I were a betting man this entire ordeal happened during a sales presentation where the parents were "encouraged" to add their kids as owners to "pass on a lifetime of vacations to a new generation".

 

[LeslieDet]

Yeah, it’s this. From a legal standpoint you cant’ just “add someone to a deed” without their permission / having them sign something, etc. However, as a practical matter, they’d need to bring some kind of action in court (likely against the person who added them to the deed) to get themselves removed.

As an even more practical matter however, @rickandcindy23 if you are just trying to remove kids from the deed, just draft and record new deeds (signed by everyone including the kids) that don’t have the kids on the deed. You can either do this yourself (I know you’ve posted you have some experience there), or you can pay a closing service a few hundred bucks.

Gifts of a deeded interest in real property do not have to be acknowledged by the recipient signing something. While gifts need to be accepted to be valid, what qualifies as a legally adequate acceptance depends upon the facts. If dad told adult children, hey kids, I added your name to the ownership for the timeshares, and they nod their heads, without saying no thanks, then that is acceptance of the gift.

 

[TUGBrian]

here was the full post with more info to continue the discussion on:

My parents passed away this year and their timeshares (Massanutten Summit floating week and Woodstone week 6 triennially) have my siblings and me listed as co-owners. I've obtained the deeds and confirmed that we are all listed. I never signed anything agreeing to this, nor did my siblings. The only signatures on the deeds are my parents'. My parents' decision to include our names on the deed was made under pressure from the timeshare...they regretted doing that, but didn't know how to undo it.


The standard response when I’ve reached out to the resort has been that there is no deed-back and the timeshares need to be sold/transferred. The resale market is saturated with people trying to sell their timeshares for Massanutten, most for free or $1. I haven't pursued this option because it seems futile and I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of continuing payment of maintenance fees, especially if that will be taken as an acceptance of ownership of these timeshares.

The timeshares are paid in full (no loans/mortgages)...the only payments are the annual maintenance fees ($1530 total for both). We don't want the timeshare and we don't want anything from the resort except to be released from this obligation.

Has anyone had success in getting Massanutten agree to take back a timeshare?

I’ve contacted the resort fees department, but can’t get past the gatekeepers. How do I find out who the higher ups are to send a certified letter? And what do I need to include in the letter?
This is the last thing I want to deal with after the loss of my parents, any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

and the actual post, should anyone wish to chime in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/timeshareusersgroup/posts/3937633876557448/

 

[Nomad420]

I had a person quit claim a week to me that I didn't want, simply because I told him it would be easy to give away. I got the quit claim in the mail and an invoice a month later. It was Polynesian Resort Villas in Kissimmee, FL. If you know my last name, it's not tough to find me. I gave the week away on TUG. This was about 15 years ago. I wrote about it.

The thing is, who is going to fight, should someone does that to another person? How much money are you willing to spend?

Now most companies require a driver's license for transfer into a new owner's name. That's a good thing, but it didn't use to be a requirement. It's a great change.

Literally today I need to have my signature (as well as the buyer's signature) notarized to transfer the deed of my TS that I just sold. I am transferring it using an agent ($180 fee the buyers is paying and quite honestly money well spent). Prior to this deal I had a buyer (supposedly out of TX) wanted to do the transfer without the required documentation and it was soon exposed as a fraudulent attempt to purchase my TS. I think much of the above posts are either old "rules" or out right nefarious deals.

 

[theo]

I would think that legal action to get them off the deed would need to be taken within a reasonable amount of time from when they were added to the deed. I suspect that dad thought it would be great to just have his kids put on the deed when he bought the timeshare. They only needed dad to pay the money, the timeshare company didn't care who was on the deed. Dad could also at anytime add anyone to the deed, even without their knowledge. I suspect quiet title could fix this, but the children would need to prove they were unaware they were being added to the deed and it would also be rather expensive legal action.

I recently read the "long version" of this matter on the TUG Facebook page. The "offspring" reporting there seemed to already know that the offsprings’ names were on the subject deed as co-owners. In fact, the "offspring" reporting this matter on the FB page overtly indicated that the late father, at some prior point in time, had actually expressed regret at having succumbed to sales hyena pressure to include the offsprings' names on the deed In the first place. This description certainly suggests that the offspring names have likely been on the deed since the initial execution of the purchase contract and not “added” later.

Further compounding that situation was the later alleged "trade-in" of the original timeshare toward some sort of (unspecified) "points product", which was then placed into a trust, but the offspring apparently have no further knowledge (nor any documentation at all) regarding the details of that later development. What a mess!

You have to feel bad for those (and for any other) "involuntary co-owners" of a timeshare that they want no part of, apparently neither now nor previously. Seems to be a real good example of why offspring names should NOT be placed on deeds as co-owners — and most certainly not without their informed and overtly expressed consent.

 

[theo]

I suspect that dad thought it would be great to just have his kids put on the deed when he bought the timeshare.

Having read through the "long version" of this matter on the TUG FB page, I believe that your suspicion is correct and that the offspring names were not "added", but rather were "included" from day one of contract execution.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Literally today I need to have my signature (as well as the buyer's signature) notarized to transfer the deed of my TS that I just sold. I am transferring it using an agent ($180 fee the buyers is paying and quite honestly money well spent). Prior to this deal I had a buyer (supposedly out of TX) wanted to do the transfer without the required documentation and it was soon exposed as a fraudulent attempt to purchase my TS. I think much of the above posts are either old "rules" or out right nefarious deals.

What state, what timeshare company? Was this Hilton, since I see you own Hilton?

The driver's license of the new owner is a requirement that guarantees the new owner knows they are getting the timeshare.