truly can not afford fees

[Passepartout]

Isn't it crazy that the only way out of a Timeshare is to go through ALL of this??

Ride, it isn't just timeshares. It can be any long-term expenditure that we buy. Problem is that timeshares are sold to people as an asset. And it turns out that they are a liability. An ongoing expense that has no underlying value. The only way that timeshares are worth anything is in their use. Once an owner stops using his/her timeshare, it ceases to be an asset and in fact has negative value. I can't think of any other thing we can buy that falls into this category.

What you quoted, though, describes the process of bankruptcy. The forced liquidation of property to give a debtor a second chance. Were it not for the fact that most of us have income or assets to cover these permanent- ongoing- lifetime expenses, many more people would- and will- come to the realization that forced liquidation is the only way out.

As I gaze into my hazy and cracked crystal ball, I can see a time when you can't give away timeshare for free, and BOD's/HOAs won't accept deedbacks. The only way out is to BK out of them or die and force them on our descendents who will default out of them while they say 'Why did (you) buy this miserable thing?'

It's a coming mess.

Jim

 

[shagnut]

Thanks Ron, But I have already tried giving it back. The answer was, "we are not taking back units". The past two years I actually had to make monthly payments to satisfy. The resort had told me that if I paid it before my week they would rent it for me and I would make some money back. So, I paid and they never rented it. (2 years). When I inquired as to why no rent they said "no one wanted to rent that week"! I have owned this unit and always paid for 30 years. Just can't anymore!

You and I are exactly in the same boat. I paid for over 25 yrs until hit with a big assessment. Told them to keep it and sent them the deed and never heard another word. Got another bill adding this years to it. Called again, and explained I had a medical condition and just couldn't do it anymore . I had never been late and had paid all assessments . One girl was sympathetic but the office mgr came on the phone and said a lawyer may contact me. Told her you do what you got to do and I'll do what I have to do. shaggy

 

[Talent312]

I think the big question for a lot of people is when are creditors allowed to garnish wages. I think many would not want things to get that far. I've seen some TUG members state that wage garnishment is possible. Does anyone know for sure? Does it vary from state to state?

A creditor must first obtain a judgment, then ask the court to enforce the judgment by issuing a garnishment order. How much can be garnished depends on state law. Many states exempt wages of the head of a household or protect a certain percentage, unless its for child support. I think the feds prohibit reducing income below minimum wage. In many places, its up to the debtor to assert the exemptions.

 

[MPanto]

Hi - MPanto - I just looked, and you have never posted an Ad on our Bargain Deals Forum (a separate area from the TUG Marketplace/Classifieds.)

More Info. - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509

For optimum exposure, you should re-post to the Ad at least once a week, to keep it active and at the top of the forum.

Giving away a timeshare usually takes a lot of exposure.

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Do you want to GET RID OF YOUR TIMESHARE? Don't want to leave the burden to family members? We have the answer. Contact us by email today. You must answer yes to the following two questions to qualify: 1. Is you timeshare paid in full? 2. Are your Maintenance Fees/Special Assessments up to date? If you have answered YES to both of these questions we have over 1,600 worldwide properties that we are able to accept. Contact us today - or check out our website at www.xxxxxeTakeAway.com 2011/05/29

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954-418-4550* Our Charity Needs Your Timeshare Which would benefit you more? Selling your Timeshare for $___________ Or Getting a $7,000 Tax Write-off for the current Tax year** To learn more visit us at: www.timeshare-for-charity.org *Telephone Number is for Stewart Vacation Ownership Title Agency when you take advantage of this program. **Amount of Average Tax Deductable Donation 2011/08/05

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[TUGBrian]

geez, all of those are spam/scams :/

 

[ace2000]

A creditor must first obtain a judgment, then ask the court to enforce the judgment by issuing a garnishment order. How much can be garnished depends on state law. Many states exempt wages of the head of a household or protect a certain percentage, unless its for child support. I think the feds prohibit reducing income below minimum wage. In many places, its up to the debtor to assert the exemptions.

Is that for maintenance fees being behind or the payments on the original loan? I've still yet to hear of anyone having wage garnishments for being behind on maint fees. Many here claim it has been done, but have yet to hear one case that has happened for real.

 

[Ridewithme38]

A creditor must first obtain a judgment, then ask the court to enforce the judgment by issuing a garnishment order. How much can be garnished depends on state law. Many states exempt wages of the head of a household or protect a certain percentage, unless its for child support. I think the feds prohibit reducing income below minimum wage. In many places, its up to the debtor to assert the exemptions.

Now, i know this is a dumb question...but, your out of the contract at this point right? They're not garnishing your wages for the rest of your life right? What part of the process actually gets you out of the contract? Is the judgement a foreclosure or just a judgement for back payment on an existing contract?

Basically i think what i'm asking(after a big meal and a lot of drinks) is, even after you stop paying, can a judgement be put against you to keep you paying forever and ever

 

[rickandcindy23]

Is that for maintenance fees being behind or the payments on the original loan? I've still yet to hear of anyone having wage garnishments for being behind on maint fees. Many here claim it has been done, but have yet to hear one case that has happened for real.

Lawyers get judgements, and people do get their wages garnished for the debts. It has happened at Twin Rivers, when the attorney found some of the people not paying their fees.

Ironically, every single person that got behind by a year or more got a call from the lawyer first, and she offered to take the deeds back. Almost everyone said they wanted to keep the timeshare, because they paid so much for it and didn't want to lose the week completely. She did get some of their wages garnished through the courts. Additionally, the lawyer sent deedbacks for the owners to sign, when she couldn't find a current phone #, and most didn't bother to send the paperwork back.

 

[Talent312]

Is that for maintenance fees being behind or the payments on the original loan? I've still yet to hear of anyone having wage garnishments for being behind on maint fees. Many here claim it has been done, but have yet to hear one case that has happened for real.

The original loan would likely be held by a finance company, who could sue to foreclose the TS. Typically, the HOA would also sue to foreclose, including unpaid MF's to that point. In theory, the HOA could sue for each MF due, but that'd be silly.

Judgments for $$ do not always follow a foreclosure. In some states, foreclosure is non-judicial or without recourse, meaning that no judgment for $$ is issued and there is nothing to collect.

How often does a judgment for $$ lead to garnishment? It may depend on how far the judgment-holder is prepared to hound the debtor. I heard one collections agent say that they will do everything possible to make a debtors life miserable until some arrangement is made.

...but, your out of the contract at this point right? They're not garnishing your wages for the rest of your life right? What part of the process actually gets you out of the contract? Is the judgment a foreclosure or just a judgment for back payment on an existing contract? ...Can a judgment be put against you to keep you paying forever and ever?

It depends on the type of lawsuit. A foreclosure terminates your interest in the property, and you have no further obligation. They could sue for each payment, and keep you on the hook. But that'd be absurd.

Generally, garnishments can only cover what's due in a particular judgment, and does not encompass unstated amounts.

 

[MPanto]

Is that for maintenance fees being behind or the payments on the original loan? I've still yet to hear of anyone having wage garnishments for being behind on maint fees. Many here claim it has been done, but have yet to hear one case that has happened for real.

It only maintenance fees. As I had stated in an earlier I own this unit for 30 years and had paid off the loan after the first 5 year. I have been paying my MF's every year without even a late fee until the last 2 years. But still paid the MF before my week was due. I haven't used my TS for the past 12 years. Tried to exchange through RCI but when I was working my vacation week was difficult to match with RCI because it would be short notice and didn't make economic sense. I have always put my week up for rent through the Resort but they never rented it. As far as wages, have none. I try to do side jobs for some income. Don't get me wrong, I work enough to pay health insurance for my family and food, taxes, but we are at bare minimum on spending.

Please, I'm not looking for sympathy and certainly not looking for criticism for something I did or didn't do. Just trying to find a solution. Thanks

 

[Phydeaux]

It only maintenance fees. As I had stated in an earlier I own this unit for 30 years and had paid off the loan after the first 5 year. I have been paying my MF's every year without even a late fee until the last 2 years. But still paid the MF before my week was due. I haven't used my TS for the past 12 years. Tried to exchange through RCI but when I was working my vacation week was difficult to match with RCI because it would be short notice and didn't make economic sense. I have always put my week up for rent through the Resort but they never rented it. As far as wages, have none. I try to do side jobs for some income. Don't get me wrong, I work enough to pay health insurance for my family and food, taxes, but we are at bare minium on spending.

Please, I'm not looking for sympathy and certainly not looking for criticism for something I did or didn't do. Just trying to find a solution. Thanks

I'm not an expert in the timeshare world, but this one jumps out at me. Stop doing this. Rent it out on your own. At my TS, people wonder why it never rents. Simple, the resort has it's own inventory and that takes a much higher precedence than yours. It's like taking your used camera into a photography store and wondering why it doesn't sell.

 

[ace2000]

I'm still waiting to hear from one person that has suffered a wage garnishment for only owing maintenance fees. I really would like to hear from someone that has gone through this. Forgive me for being skeptical.

To the OP, good luck with your situation.

 

[Tia]

... I have always put my week up for rent through the Resort but they never rented it. ...

Are you positive they never rented it? I know one mgmt group rent mine and didn't notify me, funny bookkeeping. Try to rent it yourself as someone else said.

 

[tschwa2]

I'm still waiting to hear from one person that has suffered a wage garnishment for only owing maintenance fees. I really would like to hear from someone that has gone through this. Forgive me for being skeptical.

While I don't see it happening for most people who have MF in the $500-$2000 per year for a single resort, I could see a developer like Shell, Diamond, Wyndham, etc. going after the folks with the giant contracts who pay $1000 or more per month in MF's alone.

 

[ace2000]

While I don't see it happening for most people who have MF in the $500-$2000 per year for a single resort, I could see a developer like Shell, Diamond, Wyndham, etc. going after the folks with the giant contracts who pay $1000 or more per month in MF's alone.

That's exactly my point.

 

[geekette]

but quite likely you are not going to find such a person on tug. If you've been thru the ringer and finally gotten out from under, I think it unlikely you'd hang around on a timeshare board.

 

[BocaBum99]

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018007502029 If you would like this timeshare off of your estate or out of your name we can help. We accept unwanted timeshare for a small fee. Special price for TUG listings, the fee is equal to your next years maint fee, no closing cost. Take a look at the website for more details. www.EasyTimeshareDonation.com 800 750 2029 Thank you, 2011/04/13

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Do you want to GET RID OF YOUR TIMESHARE? Don't want to leave the burden to family members? We have the answer. Contact us by email today. You must answer yes to the following two questions to qualify: 1. Is you timeshare paid in full? 2. Are your Maintenance Fees/Special Assessments up to date? If you have answered YES to both of these questions we have over 1,600 worldwide properties that we are able to accept. Contact us today - or check out our website at www.xxxxxeTakeAway.com 2011/05/29

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As you can see, you are not getting any useful advice on TUG because the TUG conventional wisdom states that if you can't find someone to take over your maintenance fee liability, YOU OWN IT FOREVER. That's right. YOU OWN IT FOREVER. Notice that they are saying, do not take "no" for an answer on deedbacks or giving it away. But, at every turn, that's all you get. There is no practical way for you to get anything but a "no." What they have not yet acknowledged is that your HOA has let you down. They should take a deedback, but they won't because it will cost the remaining owners money and they have seen the resale value of your timeshare go to zero under their watch. They should all resign. You should lead the charge. I agree, they should take it back.

If the HOA won't take your timeshare back and you cannot give it away, your only option is to pay someone to take it out of your name. The cheapest ones I have seen will charge around $1000 to get you out of it. I am not going to recommend any and please do not email me for references or recommendations because I do not want to be accused of being a shill for any of these guys, but they are out there. And, if you find one, what I would recommend is start a thread about it. Post everything they ask you to do. People like me will give you the details of what we think they are saying and are likely to do and where you are likely going to get scammed. After being given all the input for those here, you decide on your own whether or not to pull the trigger and pay the roughly $1000 bill. I recently did it for 2 of my worthless timeshares mostly to see what was going to happen. It wasn't pretty. But, it worked. The last thing you want is to be taken in by another scammer. They are out there. But, many of them work. TUG should be here to help you through the decision process.

Good luck.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm still waiting to hear from one person that has suffered a wage garnishment for only owing maintenance fees. I really would like to hear from someone that has gone through this. Forgive me for being skeptical.

To the OP, good luck with your situation.

So as a timeshare BOD member at a small resort, you don't think my statement is valid? Come on, Ace!

This is not something I am making up. Truly. We have an attorney that is shared by many resorts in Colorado, all independent resorts (Twin Rivers, Pines at Meadowridge, Val Chatelle, Indian Peaks, Silverado, etc.). Madeline, our attorney, has gotten judgements, and wages have been garnished. That's what you can do in Colorado, when you get a judgement against someone. Maybe it's different elsewhere. These small resorts use Madeline instead of collection agencies. I doubt she is all that effective, to be honest.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Boca, I wish every resort had a list of people who would take timeshares others don't want, but most truly do not have such a list. I don't know what is to happen to small resorts with owners who are deeding back. It's going to be more and more of a burden on the owners who remain, sadly.

Seeing this problem in person, as a board member, gives one a different perspective. I had an owner ask me, "Where is your consideration for those owners who are left, when you are taking deeds back so easily?" I had no answer for her.

Fortunately, Twin Rivers has very few "blue" weeks. We put into place a program at Twin Rivers where owners in good standing can rent the blue weeks for a much-reduced amount. We also have a program where owners can pay $360 per week and deposit into their RCI accounts, if they wish. These weeks are no longer getting fees but still in the former owners' names. That gives me 53,500 RCI PFD Points for $360, so I take advantage.

These programs were put into place by Philip and yours truly. We are no longer on the board, so I hope they don't give up on the programs. They did stop taking deeds back after we left, unless someone is already in arrears.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Boca, I wish every resort had a list of people who would take timeshares others don't want, but most truly do not have such a list. I don't know what is to happen to small resorts with owners who are deeding back. It's going to be more and more of a burden on the owners who remain, sadly.

Seeing this problem in person, as a board member, gives one a different perspective. I had an owner ask me, "Where is your consideration for those owners who are left, when you are taking deeds back so easily?" I had no answer for her.

Fortunately, Twin Rivers has very few "blue" weeks. We put into place a program at Twin Rivers where owners in good standing can rent the blue weeks for a much-reduced amount. We also have a program where owners can pay $360 per week and deposit into their RCI accounts, if they wish. That gives me 53,500 RCI Points, so I take advantage.

These programs were put into place by Philip and yours truly. We are no longer on the board, so I hope they don't give up on the programs. They did stop taking deeds back after we left, unless someone is already in arrears.

The thing is, if enough people are deeding TS's back to make an impact on others MF's, its a sign the HOA/POA/BOD's should be stepping in, in a major way to fix the problem...Every resort is different and they all have different reasons the MF's are going up...some should really only be open 1-2 seasons a year, others have too many buildings open and being maintained for the amount of owners, still others don't have the amenities and extras that are needed to keep owners interested...what ever it is, if people are walking away it should be obvious to the HOA/POA/BOD what they are doing wrong to cause it

The HOA/POA/BOD's need to stop looking at a Timeshare contract as a Ransom that are holding people against their will and look more towards keeping people around because they WANT to be around

BTW Cindy those programs sound like a great idea to help make up for people walking away...the problem is, you are treating the Symptoms and not the cause...until you treat the cause the resort will never be able to fully recover

 

[TUGBrian]

also note in your correspondance to the resort, that you have been contacted by a number of organizations that will deed the week out of your name for a fee.

All resorts are going to have to wake up to the fact that more and more people are doing this when they have no other options....the resort will most certainly be better off in the long run taking it from a willing owner, vs having to fight an LLC they will have no way to go after or communicate with.


*note - not that I am in any way suggesting you take this route, as knowingly signing over your deed to an LLC you know is going to abandon it, is indeed fraud. However I also feel its wrong for resorts to have no options for owners who are completely stuck, and unable to find a way out under any legal circumstances.

 

[hypnotiq]

Maybe Im missing something but why fight with someone that is trying to deed back a TS? Im sure in most cases, they are to the point, that for whatever reason, they can no longer afford to keep it.

At least if you take the deed back, you can attempt to get rid of it on the resale market or whatever rather than fighting legally to get blood from a turnip in most cases?


To me, it seems like it costs the HOA/whatever more in the long run to try and go after them for not paying their MF fees, etc then it would to take the property back.

From the way I see it, once someone is ready to deed back, youre past the point youre going to get $ from the person.

Maybe Im wrong...

 

[bogey21]

Maybe HOAs should take a page out of the PCC's playbook and agree to take deed backs in exchange for multiple years MFs. For example the Resort could accept a deed back today if (1) the 2012 MF has been paid, and (2) the owner giving up the week would pay a similar amount to cover the 2013 MF. This would give the HOA "room" to work out the situation without getting involved with the courts.

George

 

[TUGBrian]

its certainly one step forward into fixing this mess for sure....I am regularly amazed at why resorts do not at least attempt this more often than not.

 

[DeniseM]

Maybe Im missing something but why fight with someone that is trying to deed back a TS? Im sure in most cases, they are to the point, that for whatever reason, they can no longer afford to keep it.

At least if you take the deed back, you can attempt to get rid of it on the resale market or whatever rather than fighting legally to get blood from a turnip in most cases?


To me, it seems like it costs the HOA/whatever more in the long run to try and go after them for not paying their MF fees, etc then it would to take the property back.

From the way I see it, once someone is ready to deed back, youre past the point youre going to get $ from the person.

Maybe Im wrong...

Based on the posters who come to TUG, a lot of people who want to dump their TS's do not have financial problems - they just don't want them any more. The resort would rather have those people continue to pay their MF's, rather than taking the deed back and having to find a new owner. They are betting that a person who can pay, will pay, rather than risking their credit rating by defaulting. The resort would rather have a dues paying owner on the hook, than have the expense of reselling the unit, in a weak market.