Today’s Confusing HRC and Welk Announcement [merged]

[Kal]

If my last name was Pritzker, and I still owned Hyatt, I'd send a team consisting of a Hyatt reservations exec; a broker (probably from Key West) and an owner (probably you) to each Welk property to assign point-levels. I'd make sure this team was stingy. We can always bump people up later -- nobody ever complains going from Bronze to Gold -- but anything in the other direction would result in mutiny.

Bam. Every Welk property is now interchangeable with Hyatt. And as any Hyatt owner knows, a Bronze week and 1300 points is plenty to dip a toe in the water. It won't get Christmas in Colorado. But they'll be able to travel.

Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for. Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers. Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest. So now we have Hyatt punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back. Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.

 

[Mongoose]

I was relieved that it keeps the systems separate for now. I'm sure there are Welk resorts that we'd enjoy, but there wasn't anything I'd exchange into immediately and I wasn't looking forward to the increased competition.

I'm sure at some point they will integrate the systems, but I am guessing that it will require a purchase of some sort from the legacy HRC owners as well as Welk owners.

Agree, it will prevent Welk from diluting HRC availability. I just thought there would be more access at the 180 or 60 day point. Heck, this could just be technology delays.

 

[Mongoose]

Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for. Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers. Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest. So now we have Hyatt punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back. Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.

Let’s remember it’s not really Hyatt anymore, but Marriott.

 

[ScoopKona]

Let’s remember it’s not rally Hyatt anymore, but Marriott.

But the system is still in place. If that changes, I'm out. I could quitclaim my week and walk away from it and I don't feel it owes me anything. I also don't care about this new "pay for points" scheme they have worked up to wring more money out of people -- as long as they're not minting points out of thin air, my points are worth precisely what they were 15 years ago.

And I don't mind the Welk owners accessing the system as peers. As long as the week/unit assignments are as fair as the Hyatt week/unit assignments have been, that's fine. I don't see competition as much as I see opportunity. Welk has a great many interesting properties. I'd rather go to most of them than Coconut Plantation.

What I don't want is two Hyatts, with two systems, and loads of confusion. That's "star-bellied Sneeches vs. not-star-bellied" from Dr. Seuss.

 

[alameda94501]

Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for. Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers. Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest. So now we have Hyatt punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back. Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.

I understand, although besides Welk Northstar (zero availability on Interval International as of yesterday's announcement) I hadn't been excited by the formerly-Welk resorts. (Luckily our family nabbed Hyatt Northstar for the first time this month!)

The moral of this story is that it really seems hard for Hyatt management to grow their (original) system - HRC or HPC. Every single time I see the sales people I ask whether there are actual plans to grow the system, as that would give them an incentive. Every time they say "yes", citing actual locations (last time it was Oregon). And so every time, I say "Ok, let's see if there's progress next time I'm here."

So far, no progress after Maui (and when was the resort before Maui?) I don't count expansion of Wild Oak Ranch and Coconut Plantation, especially when those resorts already had many unsold units.

Also luckily, we love their current resorts. But growth would be nice.

 

[ScoopKona]

Every single time I see the sales people I ask whether there are actual plans to grow the system, as that would give them an incentive. Every time they say "yes", citing actual locations (last time it was Oregon).

When I worked there, being caught saying "yes" was a sure way to get fired. We knew about Maui for years. We weren't allowed to talk about it until ground was broken. When I left, there wasn't even any corporate scuttlebutt about new resorts in the pipeline. Hyatt has land holdings all over the place. But all of these places are in difficult-to-develop areas, apparently.

I agree 100% that the molasses-slow growth of the system is not doing the Hyatt resort brand any favors. I wouldn't want them opening a new resort every year, either. But there must be a happy medium that keeps the system boutique.

My guess is that after getting the system up and running, the top execs came to the conclusion that timeshares are not the cash cow that renting hotel rooms out every night are -- and they put the entire system on the back burner. Why build a resort that is hard to sell, needs constant marketing, and provides dwindling profits over time? Build a hotel, slap the Hyatt name on the door, and watch guests shove money in their direction every night without having to put them up for free to "see how they like it."

 

[ivywag]

Are "eligible" owners the ones who bought Developer points? That'd be amazing if Resale Platinum owners could get the World of Hyatt exchange!

It’s always been the case that only HRC units purchased from the developer were eligible for the World of Hyatt exchange. I’m not sure how it works with points, but I think that they, too, must be purchased from the developer for WOH exchange.

 

[ivywag]

The exchange for WOH isn’t very good anyway.

 

[dannybaker]

Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for. Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers. Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest. So now we have Hyatt punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back. Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.

Wow we feel so abused, we haven’t heard anything from Welk at this point. We own two two bedroom lock off units. we haven’t even been given a interval account as of today. We already have multiple Marriott weeks with a interval account, all we want to do is exchange both weeks into the Marriott system and we will be happy.

 

[RunCat]

The message is clear that Hyatt is being very careful not to cause issues with the HRC owners. That's a good thing. However, if I were a Welk owner, I would not be happy with this structure. At the onset, a Welk owner would likely believe the buyout would result in a full integration of all Welk properties into the HRC/HPC. They would have unlimited access to all Hyatt resorts. What a deal! So now owners of 8 Welk resorts are in a tiny pool where they hope Hyatt owners will take interest in those properties. IMHO, there's not much of an incentive for me to even think about tipping my toe in those waters.

as a Welk owner, I am not disappointed at all. My ownership and the perks that are associated with it were unaffected. And in the process I gained a) status with Hyatt Hotels, b) eventual access to Hyatt hotels via our ownership c) Experiences by Welk is now free rather $200/yr. and d) reduced pricing for II exchanges into HRC resorts, if any are available. IMO, these things are all additions to what I own and I gave up nothing.

 

[RunCat]

Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for. Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers. Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest. So now we have Hyatt punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back. Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.

I suspect that there are too many issues to synchronize the programs. Primary would be the reconciliation between HRC, which is a weeks system, and HVCPP, which is a predominantly points system. Further, the reservations for a Priority 1 member can be made 22 months in advance for any resort (a non-priority member can make a reservation at 15 mos.) I personally have a reservation already in place for Cabo for the week of Dec 30, 2023. Making a reservation that far in advance does not exist in the HRC system. Nor does allowing every HVCPP owner access to every resort in the system. I'm not sure how to make this work.
Albeit, HVC may change the program. But, as others suggest, any consolidation will probably need to be a redesigned program that will require a buy-in.

 

[Kal]

The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties". There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe. Anything new will be under Portfolio. Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either. They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy. Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.

 

[Mongoose]

The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties". There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe. Anything new will be under Portfolio. Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either. They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy. Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.

Based on this there really isn’t access.

 

[Oscar923]

The primary reason I bought into Welk is Northstar. I am grateful that my usage is unaffected by this name change. As Runcat pointed out, now I gain the Discoverist status with Hyatt hotels.

 

[alameda94501]

The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties". There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe. Anything new will be under Portfolio. Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either. They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy. Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.

Thinking of Maui, I wonder if a new Developer would have a choice, though between HRC and HPC. My guess is that the highest margin for an independent Developer is to go with HRC at least until the honeymoon of new buyers dries up.

After that point, HPC may make sense to get rid of the dregs. I think they probably suffer a big discount on their revenue/margin selling to HPC but then get their maintenance fees all taken care of.

I don't think HPC is successful at organically earning enough for a new resort as a Developer itself. In fact, Hyatt is having to bail the HPC members out by refunding their Club Fee these days. So they would need to double down on their own to get a new Portfolio resort.

The other downward trend for Portfolio is that while they are successful in pulling in hybrid owners from Legacy with 660 point purchases, they have very few new point-only owners. Having a compelling product for new owners is important to have Portfolio develop successfully. People dropping $40k-$50k for Marriott somewhat makes sense because of the scope of that club. The same sense for Hyatt doesn't seem to scale.

 

[ScoopKona]

Based on this there really isn’t access.

Bingo!

I think what I want, and what Kal has said he wants too is the best way forward. (I do not claim to speak for him. But I think we're aligned on this one.)

Hyatt should say "welcome aboard" to Welk owners and start assigning point values. It is very likely that Welk resorts will be under-valued at first if this happens. But Hyatt has always been good about making it right. I'm one of the beneficiaries of this -- my week was bumped up two levels, free, when they decided my week was undervalued.

The only way this really works is if everyone is a peer. Even the Branson owners -- who should at least get Copper points (1100 per year) because it gets them in the system. If it turns out there is demand for Branson that I did not see coming, that can be adjusted later.

But get everyone together and see how it goes. Welk has some nice properties that fit well with the current system. Bring everyone on board and let them dip a toe in.

 

[Kal]

Bingo!

I think what I want, and what Kal has said he wants too is the best way forward. (I do not claim to speak for him. But I think we're aligned on this one.)

Hyatt should say "welcome aboard" to Welk owners and start assigning point values. It is very likely that Welk resorts will be under-valued at first if this happens. But Hyatt has always been good about making it right. I'm one of the beneficiaries of this -- my week was bumped up two levels, free, when they decided my week was undervalued.

The only way this really works is if everyone is a peer. Even the Branson owners -- who should at least get Copper points (1100 per year) because it gets them in the system. If it turns out there is demand for Branson that I did not see coming, that can be adjusted later.

But get everyone together and see how it goes. Welk has some nice properties that fit well with the current system. Bring everyone on board and let them dip a toe in.

Agree! If I were a Welker, I would not be at all happy with Hyatt's solution. "If they want us, let us in!" It's really like table scraps

 

[Mongoose]

Agree! If I were a Welker, I would no be at all happy with Hyatt's solution. "If they want us, let us in!" It's really like table scraps

To be fair, there really are no big “winners or losers”. It’s 98% status quo. A Welk owner said they felt abused, not sure how that is the case. I had hoped for some advantages, but there is no free lunch.

 

[Mongoose]

Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.

 

[Kal]

To be fair, there really are no big “winners or losers”. It’s 98% status quo. A Welk owner said they felt abused, not sure how that is the case. I had hoped for some advantages, but there is no free lunch.

Rarely do things go well when a company gets bought out. All you can hope is things don't go backwards. So in this case Welkers get a little access to HRC properties which they didn't have before. I've been involved in the wrong end of a buy out and it can get incredibly ugly.

 

[Kal]

Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.

Hyatt saw the future many moons ago and sold the whole package. Typical to Hyatt, they retained the naming rights for a continuing cash flow and even kept their finger in the pie by insisting on quality standards to "protect their fine name". That's good for Hyatt but the cost is borne by the timeshare owners. Thank you to the Pritzkers?

 

[ScoopKona]

Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.

This is the problem.

In the world of timeshares, Hyatt is different. You don't see many people coming here and posting how awful the system is. In fact, most of us are very happy with our week(s). And the reason for that is that Hyatt created a system which works. The fact that every point is backed by a unit with known demand (whatever that demand might be -- high or low) means that the system is equitable. Diamond owners can leverage their week for lots of vacations elsewhere. Or they can do an even trade for another diamond week elsewhere. Or they can use what they own. And it's the same with Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze. They all work just fine.

We can debate forever what's the best bang for the buck. And I've heard people say it's too complicated. (But why would anyone want to go back to "trade a week for a week -- even if you're trading a unicorn week for a mediocre one?")

But what this system does, it does well.

If the Welk owners aren't folded into the system -- we have a program that works better for some than others. And that is a big problem. Hyatt would no longer be "the timeshare system that actually keeps its promises." Welk owners may have been promised one thing when they bought. But Hyatt owners were promised something more. And if Hyatt doesn't find a way to integrate the system, it will be the first major instance of them acting like all the rest of the timeshare companies.

 

[Kal]

This is the problem.

In the world of timeshares, Hyatt is different. You don't see many people coming here and posting how awful the system is. In fact, most of us are very happy with our week(s). And the reason for that is that Hyatt created a system which works. The fact that every point is backed by a unit with known demand (whatever that demand might be -- high or low) means that the system is equitable. Diamond owners can leverage their week for lots of vacations elsewhere. Or they can do an even trade for another diamond week elsewhere. Or they can use what they own. And it's the same with Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze. They all work just fine.

We can debate forever what's the best bang for the buck. And I've heard people say it's too complicated. (But why would anyone want to go back to "trade a week for a week -- even if you're trading a unicorn week for a mediocre one?")

But what this system does, it does well.

If the Welk owners aren't folded into the system -- we have a program that works better for some than others. And that is a big problem. Hyatt would no longer be "the timeshare system that actually keeps its promises." Welk owners may have been promised one thing when they bought. But Hyatt owners were promised something more. And if Hyatt doesn't find a way to integrate the system, it will be the first major instance of them acting like all the rest of the timeshare companies.

Remember it's not Hyatt but Marriott. Let's see how this new package of 3 systems under one banner fits the Marriott approach. My guess is Marriott would love to eliminate the legacy HRC. They just can't eliminate the challenge of deeded units. My guess is Marriott couldn't turn away ILG's bail out price and saw the buy as a step toward "world domination".

 

[ScoopKona]

Remember it's not Hyatt but Marriott. Let's see how this new package of 3 systems under one banner fits the Marriott approach.

I get that -- the Marriott buy out. And I'm also not demanding that Hyatt do something with Welk right the [censored] now. The ink is barely dry on the contracts. These things take time -- although this is your wheelhouse, not mine.

It would go a long way towards mollifying the owner base if whoever runs the actual Hyatt system now, announces what they hope to accomplish when integrating the two systems. Because so far, it looks like they're slinging pizzas at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Kal]

I get that -- the Marriott buy out. And I'm also not demanding that Hyatt do something with Welk right the [censored] now. The ink is barely dry on the contracts. These things take time -- although this is your wheelhouse, not mine.

It would go a long way towards mollifying the owner base if whoever runs the actual Hyatt system now announced what they hope to accomplish when integrating the two systems. Because so far, it looks like they're slinging pizzas at the wall to see what sticks.

They are fully aware of the issues, but took the easy path of kicking the can down the road. All the while getting a cash flow from each Welk/Interval transaction. What a deal! Step right up for a discount. If there was a demand, why the need for a discount?