Timeshares never came back after the recession of 2008. Resales are not recovering value.

[PcflEZFlng]

Regarding cars (a few posts up). One of my cars broke down in June and it was not worth the $$ to fix. Called a local charity and they towed it away. Done.

 

[dagger1]

I have several friends who had zero problems getting rid of their timeshares: they simply stopped paying their Mf’s. I still see them, they have suffered zero ramifications from their actions, or so they say. I’m sure they took some kind of credit hit, but a credit score in the mid 700’s vs mid 800’s doesn’t seem to have effected their lifestyles.

 

[OldGuy]

I have several friends who had zero problems getting rid of their timeshares: they simply stopped paying their Mf’s. I still see them, they have suffered zero ramifications from their actions, or so they say. I’m sure they took some kind of credit hit, but a credit score in the mid 700’s vs mid 800’s doesn’t seem to have effected their lifestyles.

That's good to hear.

I've been asking for firsthand reports.

For some people, who may be strapped, or have enough to deal with already, it's hard to see the burden of an unwanted timeshare being worth a few FICO points.

But, then, I guess I/we did it for a number of years, but I was able to deal with it, so the burden was more one of inconvenience, something that should not have been necessary.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

All of the major TS brands have some sort of deedback or selling program now:

https://responsibleexit.com/

Even if it involves helping to resell your unit or a fee it shouldn't take years of lost MF anymore so your risk is capped. The hotel branded timeshares don't want to risk their brand reputation so they are actively supporting. As I mentioned HGVC offered to buy back one of our units for $15k no strings attached but it was a good property which holds resale value and they are actively selling (location, location, location). (We decided to keep for now because we enjoy visiting and the MF are reasonable.)

Independent resorts HOA may not afford to have such a program so risk is higher for those resorts.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

To the original post, why haven't values recovered? (We're in a booming economy for almost a decade). I guess it is a combination of factors including new options (VBRO, AIRBNB etc), booming hotel construction with more options (suites in some brands), busier people who don't take week long vacations, the change in air travel (it's not fun anymore), and the internet which has made resources like this readily available and shine light on the industry. The good news is that a timeshare is a better option for most folks than an RV (I own one but use it quite a bit) or a 2nd home. ...I simply don't consider timeshares a very user friendly option (fixed week or points or banking week) for most folks. The complexity of many of these systems is mind numbing.

I think you nailed it. The reason resales have declined is that the systems are complex by design and it's not a sure bet. Most people don't want to invest the time to figure this out for a vacation, they cannot afford the cash to pay for a resale, it's not a fit, or they are completely risk averse.

Many Tuggers have found rewarding resales to hack value but it involves research (location, season, max point value/MF) and keeping up with the changing rules to hack the system. Like credit card points, it is a hobby, but it is important to hedge bets and manage exposure so if everything fails, there is not a significant financial burden...even so you are WAY ahead of anyone who bought developer, or a new boat or RV.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

But I'm not sure it's a better option than booking resorts and hotels (or renting a TS) on an "as needed" basis. Timeshare "owners" are passive. The management can generally charge whatever they want. The legal and professional fees (all part of your MF) are very high due to the extreme complexity of these entities. And the complexity added to one's estate (I'm 58) is definitely a factor folks need to take into consideration.

On your first point, YMMV based on location and your situation. Anyone traveling with teens would find hotel studios without a kitchen an uncomfortable and expensive solution (feeding hungry teens while traveling). Most free hotel breakfasts are continental for two unless you are fine with a Hampton Inn for vacation (I am not). Even then there is lunch and dinner at restaurants...the most expensive meals of the day.

Hotel renters are not assured of the best units and don't know if they are upgraded until check-in. So they roll the dice every trip. When I vacation on beachfront in Hawaii, or a view of central park with lounge access in NYC I want preference to get the best unit and view within the category I booked. I get that with my timeshares.

On your second point, your concerns are inflated. Not a big deal. Either the MF is economically viable or not. Your heirs can reject a timeshare.

 

[SabresFan]

I think you nailed it. The reason resales have declined is that the systems are complex by design and it's not a sure bet. Most people don't want to invest the time to figure this out or risk profile only supports a sure thing. They've also heard the horror stories where it was not a financial, lifestyle fit.

Many Tuggers have found rewarding resales to hack value but it involves research (location, season, max point value/MF) and keeping up with the changing rules to hack the system. Like credit card points, it is a hobby, but it is important to hedge bets and manage exposure so if everything fails, there is not a significant financial burden...even so you are WAY ahead of anyone who bought developer.

A huge part of the problem is that the whole thing is extremely opaque. You can't get a logon to RCI or II until after you own a timeshare, so you have no idea what is even possible with trading. Even buying from the developer, the amount of info you can get ahead of time is nowhere near enough for such a high dollar purchase.
I did months of research before buying resale. Very few people are willing to invest more than 15 minutes in research for big ticket purchases. The game isn't worth the candle

 

[Gypsy65]

There is no doubt that by giving up TS’s you save a lot of money. But this only works for folks who stop traveling. Staying at home is always much cheaper for us than traveling with family and friends. But for those of us who travel, TS’s save us a lot of money. We don’t have to rent 2-4 hotel rooms and we can have a lot of family meals in (which saves us a lot of time as well.). But I totally agree, it makes zero sense to keep TS’s and never use them.

Absolutely
Well put

 

[Gypsy65]

@OldGuy Your timeshare must have been pretty bad. I am sorry you had so much trouble. I've had two cars recently that I could not sell.

1) Tried the side of the road (actually several places plus craigslist) - bunch of tire kickers and no shows - what a waste. Finally took it to Carmax and we were able to recoup a proration of our 5 year service agreement when we bought it there for our teen a few years back - hows that for a deedback? It was a nice mustang convertible 2012 with leather seats and ran well. Took a big hit $ to get it off of our hands;

2) a car that would cost more to fix than it is worth. Trying to figure out how to get rid of that one now.

Agree
The old man has complained about his crap TS in almost every thread
Sure his Gold Crown rated FL resort trumped most other trades but did you read his post? Back in the day!!

If they were still great and worth all that he wouldn’t have spent a lifetime trying to end that relationship now would he

Buy that $500,000 RV and tell me when you lose all value
Sure. Might get a stack of hundreds from the trailer owner but that $500,000 is gone as is all that fuel. Insurance. Maintenance. Storage

 

[rickandcindy23]

In a word "eBay".

The auction site revealed that most timeshares are worth $1 or less. It is like the Stock Exchange where everything there is to know about the timeshare market is priced at any given moment. And timeshares are nothing more than penny stocks.

Every informed buyer does their own value analysis. I paid more than $1 for my timeshare, because my personal dividend rate is more than 50% versus renting equivalent accommodations. These dividends have more than paid for the timeshare purchase over the last 10 years.

I believe that for the sellers of my timeshare purchases, the timeshare must have represented a loss each year, and they were happy to be freed from the annual maintenance fees, which I find to be a bargain that keeps on giving. Win-win.

Yes, eBay is a factor, and timeshare exit companies have hurt us all with their negative ads on TV and radio. They are just trying to make $3-5K off of every owner, then sell the good ones for a good amount of money. It's been detrimental to our ownership.

Even our friends say, "Really? You own timeshare? I went to a presentation once, and it looked like a bad deal, very high pressure, even tried to make me feel guilty." Or, "I have a friend who has a timeshare and can never book it for when they want to use it."

My answer is always, "Timeshare is great, if you buy resale and learn to use it as intended."

I keep hoping timeshare will get a better reputation, but there are new companies starting up all of the time who make a living by talking down timeshare.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Agree

Buy that $500,000 RV and tell me when you lose all value
Sure. Might get a stack of hundreds from the trailer owner but that $500,000 is gone as is all that fuel. Insurance. Maintenance. Storage

Boat and RV annual storage, insurance, and maintenance can add up to $2,500 a year = Marriott MF. If it were a larger yacht, one would also have to pay dock and dry dock/barnacle cleanup/bottom painting fees which can run several thousand a year. What's the boat or RV worth compared to new? Not much.

What's worse is that you cannot easily rent out your boat or RV to offset the annual costs.

 

[OldGuy]

A huge part of the problem is that the whole thing is extremely opaque. You can't get a logon to RCI or II until after you own a timeshare, so you have no idea what is even possible with trading. Even buying from the developer, the amount of info you can get ahead of time is nowhere near enough for such a high dollar purchase.
I did months of research before buying resale. Very few people are willing to invest more than 15 minutes in research for big ticket purchases. The game isn't worth the candle

You don't know what you need to know until way after you need to know it.

 

[OldGuy]

. . . . even tried to make me fee guilty."

Freudian slip.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

BTW...the problem with the car/boat/rv donation sites is that IRS has put restrictions so you only get a writeoff if they are able to sell the car and they may take a long time to sell, or not work hard at selling so you risk getting close to zero.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Freudian slip.

Yes, I think so.

 

[Gypsy65]

We have people over quite often as we have a big outdoor bar/grill/kitchen area

We usually furnish everything. Food. Drinks. Etc
And I don’t ever recall adding up what we spent
Why? Because for us the value was in the association whether it was family or friends and being able to host or give

Same exact value we get from our TS
We have had friends come along at times and when they see how we travel they usually say something to the effect that we know how to do it right

Sure. There’s a cost factor but there is a cost for everything unless you sit at home doing zippo

Our kids? We get zero financial return on those investments. The value is in them

Not everything in life needs to have a financial return
Who’d want to live like that??

 

[Gypsy65]

I think the biggest issue depressing timeshare prices now is the existence of the condo rental market (airbnb, VRBO,flipkey, etc.). There are a ton of people who still see the value of staying in a condo vs a hotel but why purchase a timeshare when you can go on the web and easily find condo rentals for any location you are interested in without the ongoing obligation of ownership? Many of these condos have similar amenities as timeshares

Also the over-supply of timeshare rentals in many locations results in timeshare owners renting their units at prices equal to or less than maintenance fees which is another reason resale prices are so low. Again, why buy when you can rent at a reasonable price?

Correct me if I’m wrong as I have never rented out my TS
But doesn’t this forum dictate the amount you ( or I ) can rent out our weeks for? Such as a maximum of $800 or something?

If so. Is that not also holding value down?
If I have a unit that should rent for $2000 and posting it here is easy but I can only do the max here of $800 does that not create a depressed market value and therefore give reason to the rent don’t buy theory?

I see rental deals that should bring more $$ but I feel as if the person offering it figures something is better than nothing


Hope that makes sense

 

[Luanne]

Correct me if I’m wrong as I have never rented out my TS
But doesn’t this forum dictate the amount you ( or I ) can rent out our weeks for? Such as a maximum of $800 or something?

If so. Is that not also holding value down?
If I have a unit that should rent for $2000 and posting it here is easy but I can only do the max here of $800 does that not create a depressed market value and therefore give reason to the rent don’t buy theory?

I see rental deals that should bring more $$ but I feel as if the person offering it figures something is better than nothing


Hope that makes sense

You can only post rentals in a certain time period with that maximum amount. If you want more for your rental you can post it in the Marketplace, or on Redweek.

 

[Gypsy65]

You can only post rentals in a certain time period with that maximum amount. If you want more for your rental you can post it in the Marketplace, or on Redweek.

Thanks for that info

 

[frank808]

DVC bought resale and direct (VGF was last purchase) and Marriott Grand Residence are worth anywhere from 25% to 300% more than what we paid. Now the HGVC and other Marriott weeks are worth the same or a little less than what we paid resale.

 

[sail27bill]

I totally agree that the recession of 2007-2008 helped depress the value of timeshares. But VRBO, Homeaway, etc. plus the internet did as well. Deals can be had as witnessed in the Last Minute Forum, on places like Redweek, Ebay, Craigslist and II getaway weeks. Who doesn't love a deal? I have picked up a number of getaway weeks or rented units cheaply if I found a great deal. I have gotten discount hotel rooms in fabulous hotels using priceline name your price tool which made staying in an area much, much cheaper than owning a timeshare (but with less room).

However I feel the biggest issue surrounding timeshare value is the negative perception caused by people who either don't understand what they bought, fail to educate themselves about their ownership and how the process works, don't use it (and blame others for their lack of use), bought but couldn't afford it, travel on the spur of the moment so there are no units available for them, like hotel amenities etc. These people depress values by trashing the concept of timeshare ownership everywhere they can on the internet, sell them for pennies on the dollar which depresses the resale market, fail to pay maintenance fees which make it expensive for other owners (who in turn may default on their maintenance fees and continue the downward spiral), blame others for them buying retail (I bought 2 retail and I don't regret it--I have taken wonderful vacations) even though they signed the contract, etc. This perception continues to weaken the market immensely and allows scammers a ripe opportunity to take advantage of these people which further deteriorates timeshare resale values because the term scam is now attached to timeshare ownership on internet google searches.

I wish that management of these timeshare facilities would have an ownership forum where people could list their weeks for sale cheaply or list them for free and other owners were given the first choice of purchasing these greatly reduced weeks. You would have to be an owner already, so it wouldn't necessarily hurt their bottom line and they could make broker dealer fees off of it. Also some loyalty perks might go a long way to keep owners happy and thus in turn, elevate timeshare ownership perception.

The new generations are internet savvy and the increase of other models popularity (Homeaway or VRBO, etc.) just gives timeshares an older generation perception. Not to mention the concern of a lifetime of maintenance fees. If I were Marriott, I would use their hotel sites (Vistana and Westin) to market not only their hotel rooms, but aggressively market their ownership of timeshares and their ownership of II. Listing all the great places II has to offer when you go to book a hotel room might peak interest and gain new owners and a legitimacy that is sorely missing. Making deals with internet travel sites to increase traffic highlighting their timeshare models would be another way to promote timeshare ownership legitimacy. They would just have to list the positives without soliciting them over the internet. Who knows, maybe it could help a little....(Or maybe it is my positive thinking kicking in).

Anita

 

[OldGuy]

When it comes to the collapse of the resale market, there's sooooooooooo many reasons.

Yet, when you see some areas where there are many older resorts with a stable and realistic resale market, with the resort or a local RE agents actively marketing weeks, you've gotta think that high on the list is location, that some locations are just not popular enough to support the number of timeshares.

Then, even in those areas where there is a stable and realistic resale market, it's not all the weeks, something that has always been an inherent problem with timeshare.

Then there's places like Apple Valley, the only timeshare in Ohio, nice, rural setting, decent spacious units, adjacent to an excellent golf course and private lake, convenient to major metropolitan areas, located in a regional tourist area . . . and it just never clicked.

Like it was just never meant to be, which could be an explanation for others.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...forclosure-choices.240131/page-3#post-2325111

 

[Gypsy65]

I totally agree that the recession of 2007-2008 helped depress the value of timeshares. But VRBO, Homeaway, etc. plus the internet did as well. Deals can be had as witnessed in the Last Minute Forum, on places like Redweek, Ebay, Craigslist and II getaway weeks. Who doesn't love a deal? I have picked up a number of getaway weeks or rented units cheaply if I found a great deal. I have gotten discount hotel rooms in fabulous hotels using priceline name your price tool which made staying in an area much, much cheaper than owning a timeshare (but with less room).

However I feel the biggest issue surrounding timeshare value is the negative perception caused by people who either don't understand what they bought, fail to educate themselves about their ownership and how the process works, don't use it (and blame others for their lack of use), bought but couldn't afford it, travel on the spur of the moment so there are no units available for them, like hotel amenities etc. These people depress values by trashing the concept of timeshare ownership everywhere they can on the internet, sell them for pennies on the dollar which depresses the resale market, fail to pay maintenance fees which make it expensive for other owners (who in turn may default on their maintenance fees and continue the downward spiral), blame others for them buying retail (I bought 2 retail and I don't regret it--I have taken wonderful vacations) even though they signed the contract, etc. This perception continues to weaken the market immensely and allows scammers a ripe opportunity to take advantage of these people which further deteriorates timeshare resale values because the term scam is now attached to timeshare ownership on internet google searches.

I wish that management of these timeshare facilities would have an ownership forum where people could list their weeks for sale cheaply or list them for free and other owners were given the first choice of purchasing these greatly reduced weeks. You would have to be an owner already, so it wouldn't necessarily hurt their bottom line and they could make broker dealer fees off of it. Also some loyalty perks might go a long way to keep owners happy and thus in turn, elevate timeshare ownership perception.

The new generations are internet savvy and the increase of other models popularity (Homeaway or VRBO, etc.) just gives timeshares an older generation perception. Not to mention the concern of a lifetime of maintenance fees. If I were Marriott, I would use their hotel sites (Vistana and Westin) to market not only their hotel rooms, but aggressively market their ownership of timeshares and their ownership of II. Listing all the great places II has to offer when you go to book a hotel room might peak interest and gain new owners and a legitimacy that is sorely missing. Making deals with internet travel sites to increase traffic highlighting their timeshare models would be another way to promote timeshare ownership legitimacy. They would just have to list the positives without soliciting them over the internet. Who knows, maybe it could help a little....(Or maybe it is my positive thinking kicking in).

Anita

You nailed it

I’ve been saying that for 25 years

 

[OldGuy]

However I feel the biggest issue surrounding timeshare value is the negative perception caused by people who either don't understand what they bought, fail to educate themselves about their ownership and how the process works, don't use it (and blame others for their lack of use), bought but couldn't afford it, travel on the spur of the moment so there are no units available for them, like hotel amenities etc. These people depress values by trashing the concept of timeshare ownership everywhere they can on the internet, sell them for pennies on the dollar which depresses the resale market, fail to pay maintenance fees which make it expensive for other owners (who in turn may default on their maintenance fees and continue the downward spiral), blame others for them buying retail (I bought 2 retail and I don't regret it--I have taken wonderful vacations) even though they signed the contract, etc. This perception continues to weaken the market immensely and allows scammers a ripe opportunity to take advantage of these people which further deteriorates timeshare resale values because the term scam is now attached to timeshare ownership on internet google searches.

So, the demise of some timeshares can be blamed on people who bought timeshares. That is a novel take.

 

[hurnik]

So I didn't think of this until the other night, but:

So far, I'm not seeing any data points to even support the theory/assumption that *prior* to the recession that timeshares "held their value" better than post recession. (Although OP was simply asking if things had held their value, so not busting on the OP).

I think I'm one of the few that actually posted real numbers (post recession), but I did all my resale purchasing post-recession (can't remember when my first developer purchase was--before I found TUG. Wanna say maybe 2007?)

In other words:
Let's pretend that pre-recession one bought an HGVC 7,000 point Platinum in Vegas resale for say, $15,000 in 2000.
Then in 2005 that was "worth" say, $10,000

Then we'd need to compare a post-recession purchase resale, of same thing and see what it's worth later.

At least in my mind, to be able to adequately answer the original question.