Timeshare sales still saying points raids weeks

[Madge]

Do I read between the lines that the Weeks' system is getting the point leftovers that are at risk of going unused? These must certainly not be the best traders in desired areas or at peak time periods either as they must all have been taken already or do I understand this incorrectly?

​

Would you please explain this a little further, Madge. Thank you.

iconnections,

I've given you an incorrect impression. The "leftovers" are not provided to pay back the Weeks system for vacations confirmed by Points members. They are provided as additional inventory. It's also important to mention that the "leftovers" from Points are very different in Points and Weeks. Points members do not always reserve the largest units available - these require more points. In Weeks, there is no disincentive to accept the largest units, so, many of the Points units left available on shorter notice are larger units at Gold Crown resorts.

When the Points system does pay back the Weeks system, it pays back units that are comparable to those taken using the same Trading Power guidelines that operate within the Weeks system - or like for like.

 

[Madge]

Cendant, which owns RCI, also owns Fairfield. Why in the world are they not able to control what is said there????? That is, if they really want to!

Carolinian,

Fairfield is a separate company; however, we do report these incidents when we hear of them. Timeshare sales staff sell a product that they don't serve, and RCI serves a product we don't sell. This leaves room for gaps in communication, but we continue to address them as they happen.

spoody,

Please forward as many details as you can remember about your experience at Fairfield-Bonnet Creek to feedback@rci.com and enter TUG in the subject line. The Communications Team can be sure that this is addressed with the resort.

 

[taffy19]

Madge, thank you for your reply but I do not understand it all. Here is another question for you. When will RCI also have the feature that we can search first before depositing a week like II has? To be honest, I am very hesitant to deposit a week first and not knowing what I may get. If RCI had this same feature, you would get more deposits. JMHO.

 

[Madge]

Madge, please explain why.

Judy,

Weeks members do not have access to Points space generally, because Weeks resorts cannot accommodate partial week stays. The resorts that can (those affiliated with RCI Points) need to be held for Points transactions that might involve partial week stays. Where the supply is great enough that some of these units are likely to go unused, space is added to the Weeks system for Weeks members to confirm in full weeks.

Providing members with more flexibility was the reason we created the Points program. It does offer some advantages over the Weeks program. However, many members are perfectly happy with RCI Weeks and will stay there. The Weeks program is still the meat & potatoes of our business, so we have every intention of keeping it around.

If I've left anything unanswered for anyone, please let me know. This thread got very busy!

 

[bogey21]

I really don't understand the confusion here. Points Members have a better deal. They have access to both Weeks and Points resorts. Weeks Members most of the time only have access to Weeks Resorts. Some don't like it. Some call it unfair. Some say Points raids Weeks. Whether you like it or not, this is the way it is!!

GEORGE

 

[sfwilshire]

When will RCI also have the feature that we can search first before depositing a week like II has?

I'm not sure this is something I would encourage, even if RCI were willing. No real question here, but I just wanted to express my opinion to Madge FWIW.

While I often use and enjoy II's search first feature, it definitely causes their deposits to come in later. I usually find something with RCI before II has anything available. It stands to reason that changing this would cause RCI to also get a lot of their deposits later. I prefer more time to plan.

JMHO.

Sheila

 

[Carolinian]

Let me ask this question again, which was not answered some time ago.

When you say you put weeks back in Weeks for those taken by Points members, are these one for one or done in groups? If one-for-one, are they from the same area, same size, same quality, or do you give Orlando back to replace London? Shouldn't RCI clear the air by making a full and complete disclosure of these swaps? Some of the comments by RCI employees on other boards about RCI's practices in this area are disturbing to say the least.

Also, why does RCI not send a strong signal to those making such statements by putting offending resorts on probation at the first confirmed report, and cutting off sales at the second? When there was a great stir on this issue, based on the efforts by Street Talk, RCI promised to look into it, but it appears that no meaningful corrective action was taken. Even Cendant-owned Fairfield is brazenly doing it.

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

I would agree with Carolinan here as I had read what Madge had previously said about replacing inventory with like for like. I would like to believe that is defined as Gold Crown summer Southern California coast taken by points from weeks resort, Gold Crown summer Southern California coast week put back in from a points resort into weeks. Otherwise, it is a meaningless statement. What upset me was the salesmen using this a way to discredit weeks and sell points.
Liz

 

[slabeaume]

points members are weeks members

When I was trying to get an exchange into Hawaii, I was waitlisted for both weeks and points since as a points members, I have both memberships. Therefore, I had a better change of getting the exchange than someone who just has weeks. A weeks exchanger can , theoretically, only get a weeks exchange. Since most resorts are going to points now, there are fewer weeks exchanges out there. Especially for Hawaii whose point values are so much higher than most anywhere else---and most of their resorts are on the point system. Example: If you give up your 2 bedroom Gold Crown resort in Orlando, you might have enough points for a 1 bedroom in Hawaii. If you can get a weeks exchange into Hawaii, consider yourself very lucky---but your 1 bedroom will exchange for a one bedroom and your 2 bedroom will exchange for a 2 bedroom! I did actually get the exchange---with my Worldmark RCI Points----something totally different then either plain RCI points or weeks! But I sure was confused while I was waitlisted!!!---each department is separate and they kept telling me to check with the other ones. I had no idea who I was calling half the time. I thought you'ld call one number and that would be it, but that's not so.

 

[Carolinian]

I suggest you look at California timeshare industry veteran Byron Wiegand's article a couple of months ago in Timesharing Today entitled ''Points Revisited''. He states that resorts switching to RCI Points in California has ground to a virtual halt with most resorts remaining weeks-based and that many of the points conversion broker were getting out of the business because they had already reached those susceptible to conversion.

Also, why should RCI make us Weeks members subsidize the aministrative costs of Points members ''free'' Weeks membership?????? RCI is ripping us off for Points benefit every time we turn around.

When I was trying to get an exchange into Hawaii, I was waitlisted for both weeks and points since as a points members, I have both memberships. Therefore, I had a better change of getting the exchange than someone who just has weeks. A weeks exchanger can , theoretically, only get a weeks exchange. Since most resorts are going to points now, there are fewer weeks exchanges out there. Especially for Hawaii whose point values are so much higher than most anywhere else---and most of their resorts are on the point system. Example: If you give up your 2 bedroom Gold Crown resort in Orlando, you might have enough points for a 1 bedroom in Hawaii. If you can get a weeks exchange into Hawaii, consider yourself very lucky---but your 1 bedroom will exchange for a one bedroom and your 2 bedroom will exchange for a 2 bedroom! I did actually get the exchange---with my Worldmark RCI Points----something totally different then either plain RCI points or weeks! But I sure was confused while I was waitlisted!!!---each department is separate and they kept telling me to check with the other ones. I had no idea who I was calling half the time. I thought you'ld call one number and that would be it, but that's not so.

 

[Carolinian]

I would agree with Carolinan here as I had read what Madge had previously said about replacing inventory with like for like. I would like to believe that is defined as Gold Crown summer Southern California coast taken by points from weeks resort, Gold Crown summer Southern California coast week put back in from a points resort into weeks. Otherwise, it is a meaningless statement. What upset me was the salesmen using this a way to discredit weeks and sell points.
Liz

Let's take the example I gave. The blue inland Points owner gets a prime summer oceanfront OBX Gold Crown through the crossover grid from Weeks. To be fair, RCI owes the Weeks system a summer Gold Crown oceanfront OBX week of the same size back, BUT there are no resorts that qualify in the RCI Points system. So what does Weeks get back - something from overbuilt Orlando or Williamsburg or a much lower demand week from their off the beach GC Points resort on the OBX??? Or nothing at all, as at least one RCI employee has stated on another board? Any way you slice it, Weeks is getting screwed.

Most people try to maximize their advantage, so it is a good bet that most Pointers are using the crossover grids to take the prime weeks rather than pink weeks from Weeks. That means that RCI owes Weeks a lot of prime inventory, and in many cases they are only getting back doggy Points weeks
like the one in my example to make up for them. If RCI is fairly compensating Weeks, they have to be bleeding value in Points. This to me makes it just not credible that RCI is fairly compensating Weeks. Given their blatant preference for Points, which system is it that they are going to choose to bleed value in??? Is it credible at all that it would be Points???

I have asked before whether RCI did these swaps between the systems on a one for one, like for like basis or in groups. They would not answer, and I thing we can all glean from that what the likely answer is. By swapping in groups, they can give a bunch of doggy weeks back to Weeks for every good week they give to Points.

All of this really needs to be out in the open, and it would be such a breath of fresh air if RCI would voluntarily do that. I'm not holding my breath for that. however!

 

[slabeaume]

Also, why should RCI make us Weeks members subsidize the aministrative costs of Points members ''free'' Weeks membership?????? RCI is ripping us off for Points benefit every time we turn around.

Actually, Points members don't get "free" Weeks memberships! We had to pay a hefty conversion fee, plus our membership fee is more than Weeks membership fee.

 

[timeos2]

How many ways can you say Like for Like?

Let's take the example I gave. The blue inland Points owner gets a prime summer oceanfront OBX Gold Crown through the crossover grid from Weeks. To be fair, RCI owes the Weeks system a summer Gold Crown oceanfront OBX week of the same size back, BUT there are no resorts that qualify in the RCI Points system. So what does Weeks get back - something from overbuilt Orlando or Williamsburg or a much lower demand week from their off the beach GC Points resort on the OBX??? Or nothing at all, as at least one RCI employee has stated on another board? Any way you slice it, Weeks is getting screwed.

Quote from earlier in this thread:

When the Points system does pay back the Weeks system, it pays back units that are comparable to those taken using the same Trading Power guidelines that operate within the Weeks system - or like for like.
__________________
~ Madge

Like for like.

That is your answer. It can't be resort for resort or unit for unit since if there was an exact match there would be no need to cross over. A similar unit will be returned for a unit taken. It may not fit the sometimes warped view of relative values presented here (as in a dog blue week should be entitled to a good red week because they exist) but it is a like for like replacement. It is at least as fair, if not more so, than simply giving up a full week for whatever week you get back. At least they are trying to make a similar trade rather than a simplistic one for one.

Beyond that they don't have to say, aren't going to say I'd guess and that should end the debate. Unless something happens to change things this is how the systems operate and interchange time. If you don't like it go eslewhere for your exchanges. It works well for me and I'll stay with RCI thank you.

 

[Dani]

Many of the posts contained within this thread are inappropriate and do not comport with the Rules of the "ask RCI" board. Many should have been posted on another board here at TUG. As such, if these inappropriate comments continue, I will split this thread and place all posts that do not comport with the Rules of this board on an appropriate board.


If you have a question for Madge relating to the issue and/or issues raised by the OP, please feel to post it here. If you are posting a comment in an attempt to try to clarify a point relating to a question raised, fine. Otherwise, please start another post here on the Ask RCI board if it is appropriate to do so.

 

[Carolinian]

Let me renew a question. I asked this on the old board, Madge said she would get an answer, and then the thread got closed before she came back with one.

In these swaps between the systems, is it done on a one week for one week basis or a group of weeks for a group of weeks basis?

 

[Madge]

slabeaume,

When I was trying to get an exchange into Hawaii, I was waitlisted for both weeks and points since as a points members, I have both memberships. Therefore, I had a better change of getting the exchange than someone who just has weeks. A weeks exchanger can , theoretically, only get a weeks exchange.

Since most resorts are going to points now, there are fewer weeks exchanges out there.

The vast majority of RCI's affiliated resorts (Over 3,300 Weeks versus 744 Points) still operate as Weeks-only. Correspondingly, the majority of our members are still using the RCI Weeks program, depositing their weeks and confirming exchange vacations.

Especially for Hawaii whose point values are so much higher than most anywhere else---and most of their resorts are on the point system.

Again, there are 71 Weeks-only resorts in Hawaii as compared with just 30 Points resorts.

Example: If you give up your 2 bedroom Gold Crown resort in Orlando, you might have enough points for a 1 bedroom in Hawaii. If you can get a weeks exchange into Hawaii, consider yourself very lucky---but your 1 bedroom will exchange for a one bedroom and your 2 bedroom will exchange for a 2 bedroom! I did actually get the exchange---with my Worldmark RCI Points----something totally different then either plain RCI points or weeks! But I sure was confused while I was waitlisted!!!---each department is separate and they kept telling me to check with the other ones. I had no idea who I was calling half the time. I thought you'ld call one number and that would be it, but that's not so.

If you are an RCI Points member, you should always call the RCI Points number, 877/968-7476. Those Guides can help with either of your accounts. However, for Worldmark, you will need to call 877/526-2496 or 877/526-2496. You should not need to call different numbers for different requests. I'm sorry to hear that you did not receive consistent information or service.

 

[Madge]

Madge, thank you for your reply but I do not understand it all. Here is another question for you. When will RCI also have the feature that we can search first before depositing a week like II has? To be honest, I am very hesitant to deposit a week first and not knowing what I may get. If RCI had this same feature, you would get more deposits. JMHO.

Emmy,

RCI requires that you deposit a week before accessing other exchange inventory. However, our Guides work with member accounts all day, every day, and they have a pretty good idea of what's likely to become available. Keep in mind that most of the space not available in Extra Vacations is likely not going to be immediately available anyway - it is more likely to match later as new deposits are received.

 

[Madge]

Let me renew a question. I asked this on the old board, Madge said she would get an answer, and then the thread got closed before she came back with one.

In these swaps between the systems, is it done on a one week for one week basis or a group of weeks for a group of weeks basis?

Carolinian,

I responded to another request for specific information about the Weeks-Points reconciliation process posed by Alanmj shortly after I joined TUG in the Ask RCI forum. Following was my response to Alan, which I feel also applies here:

We use Trading Power to determine comparable value between Weeks and Points. Quality is one component of Trading Power, and is considered in that respect.

RCI cannot "prove" the equitable nature of our space reconciliation without giving out proprietary operational information, just as we cannot "prove" that Trading Power works the way we say it does without giving out the formula.

Our operational practices are audited, so we are accountable for them. However, much of the specific information will simply not be shared. I will share what I can -- and I will dig for answers. I think you must have seen that in my posts.

I cannot provide specific scenarios or numbers with regard to space reconciliation. However, I will continue to address questions about philosophy, policy, history, and guidelines, providing the most accurate information and clearest explanations possible.

I will verify my understanding of the issue you raised and find out if RCI wishes to share the answer to your question.

 

[bogey21]

I suggest you look at California timeshare industry veteran Byron Wiegand's article a couple of months ago in Timesharing Today entitled ''Points Revisited''. He states that resorts switching to RCI Points in California has ground to a virtual halt with most resorts remaining weeks-based and that many of the points conversion broker were getting out of the business because they had already reached those susceptible to conversion.

Sounds to me like a good reason to join Points. The fewer Points choices there are, the longer RCI will allow Points Members to access ("raid" in your lingo) Weeks!!

GEORGE

 

[geekette]

Sounds to me like a good reason to join Points. The fewer Points choices there are, the longer RCI will allow Points Members to access ("raid" in your lingo) Weeks!!

GEORGE

problem is, you can't Just Join - you have to either pay to convert a week you own or go buy one already converted.

 

[Dani]

Sounds to me like a good reason to join Points. The fewer Points choices there are, the longer RCI will allow Points Members to access ("raid" in your lingo) Weeks!!

GEORGE

Again. A reminder. If anyone wishes to add to this comment or respond, please start another thread in the appropriate forum outside of the "Ask RCI" board. Any responses or comments regarding this post or others similar to it will be moved along with the previously discussed comments that belong elsewhere.

 

[Carolinian]

Carolinian,





I will verify my understanding of the issue you raised and find out if RCI wishes to share the answer to your question.

This is an issue that causes a lot of concern among Weeks members, and is has going all the way back to the Sing Li article before GPN was ever even rolled out. The more upfront RCI could be about it, the better. The more secretive, the more cause for continuing concern.

 

[cbogan]

Hi all, am new to this board.
Own in Europe. Have had no end of problems in getting an exchange in the last few years. For instance, year before last I requested a exchange and couldn't get one! Ended up on a package holiday - never again! Last March I requested an exchange to the US - this was eventually confirmed in June although I could only get a 1BR. Weeks inventory is getting squeezed by Points - I also attended a presentation and was told that this is definitely the case. I am absolutely fed up with RCI - in addition, I'm led to believe that they are actually renting out deposited weeks!!
Very disillusioned........

 

[Madge]

cbogan,

Please see below:

Own in Europe. Have had no end of problems in getting an exchange in the last few years. For instance, year before last I requested a exchange and couldn't get one! Ended up on a package holiday - never again! Last March I requested an exchange to the US - this was eventually confirmed in June although I could only get a 1BR.

There are any number of reasons you may not be successful with your requests, from Trading Power, to VEP, to old fashioned supply & demand. The best way to judge potential success with an exchange request is to start an ongoing search and allow it to run for one or two months. If no match occurs, then broaden the request to allow for more possibilities. Most searches in our program are filled within the first 14 days.

Weeks inventory is getting squeezed by Points - I also attended a presentation and was told that this is definitely the case.

Please see my answers to this issue earlier in this thread. Units taken from the Weeks system by Points members are paid back by the Points system.

I am absolutely fed up with RCI - in addition, I'm led to believe that they are actually renting out deposited weeks!!

RCI offers units as Extra Vacations when they were used for non-exchange products, such as cruises or Points Partners. RCI also acquires some units directly from resorts. Other prime exchange inventory is held for Weeks exchange requests.

 

[Madge]

When you say you put weeks back in Weeks for those taken by Points members, are these one for one or done in groups? If one-for-one, are they from the same area, same size, same quality, or do you give Orlando back to replace London? Shouldn't RCI clear the air by making a full and complete disclosure of these swaps? Some of the comments by RCI employees on other boards about RCI's practices in this area are disturbing to say the least.

Carolinian,

I was able to confirm with our Inventory Management staff that X units from Points are moved to pay back X units in Weeks, and we do approach it from a value-for-value or Trading Power perspective. If it wouldn't be a fair exchange within the Weeks system, it wouldn't be considered a fair payback from Points to Weeks.

We are audited annually to be sure that we are keeping to our stated policies; however, detailed operational information about Points-Weeks inventory reconciliation is proprietary and will not be shared publicly. This has been the case with Trading Power for more than 20 years.