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Timeshare sales still saying points raids weeks

Liz Wolf-Spada

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Hi Madge, We recently went to a presentation for Pahio on Kauai and were told by their representative, Bill, that points could take weeks units from weeks resorts, but weeks couldn't get weeks from points resorts. I was pretty sure this was wrong, based on your previous explanations, but he insisted that this was correct and that he had been told this by the RCI rep on site. He got upset when I begged to differ and stormed off in a huff. Probably not a very successful salesman. But, either I have misunderstood what you have said or RCI is till being misrepresented by timeshare developers.
 

spoody

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I was told the same thing at a Fairfield-Bonnett Creek presentation. He said eventually the weeks program would go away.
 

JeffV

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I'll bet he was trying to sell points, right? If his lips were moving, he was lying. :)
spoody said:
I was told the same thing at a Fairfield-Bonnett Creek presentation. He said eventually the weeks program would go away.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

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You bet he was trying to sell points and not doing a real good job anyway.It's just this contradicted what Madge has been saying so I thought it was interesting to report.
Liz
 

Madge

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Liz,

I can see how this could have been a confusing conversation. In a sense, the salesman was perfectly correct -- RCI Weeks members cannot make RCI Points reservations and RCI Points members can make RCI Weeks exchanges. This goes back to the fact that Points members have access to both systems; whereas, Weeks members do not.

However, when discussing the nuts & bolts of inventory reconciliation (which resort sales staff would almost certainly not try to do) we do know that RCI Points inventory finds its way into the Weeks system to be confirmed by Weeks members. This happens as a result of Points paybacks to Weeks and Points inventory that is moved to Weeks because it is at risk of going unused.

So, the salesman was correct - but so were you.

The sales staff who say that the Weeks program is being phased out are simply wrong.
 

taffy19

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Do I read between the lines that the Weeks' system is getting the point leftovers that are at risk of going unused? These must certainly not be the best traders in desired areas or at peak time periods either as they must all have been taken already or do I understand this incorrectly?
:confused:
Would you please explain this a little further, Madge. Thank you.
 
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GeorgeJ.

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iconnections said:
Do I read between the lines that the Weeks' system is getting the point leftovers that are at risk of going unused? These must certainly not be the best traders in desired areas or at peak time periods either as they must all have been taken already or do I understand this incorrectly?
:confused:
Would you please explain this a little further, Madge. Thank you.

I think it's pretty clear. RCI Points members can pull out weeks from the RCI Weeks system (apparently any week that is available). RCI Weeks members only get the left-over weels from RCI Points that RCI decides to move over to Weeks from Points (they cannot go into Points inventory, while Points members can do the reverse). In other words, Weeks members are getting the short end of the stick in this deal...Right Madge?

While Weeks may not be going away, if this trend continues, there won't be much inventory worth reserving years from now...

Wouldn't it be more fair to Weeks members to actually return LIKE FOR LIKE weeks to the Weeks system? And I don't mean RCI's definition of Like For Like (which seems to mean that a prime 2-br Gold Crown Hawaii unit can be pulled from Weeks and an off-season Orlando unit can be returned to Weeks as a Like For Like; maybe not even a 2-br since Like For Like in RCI's definition may just mean a unit for a unit).

If a prime unit is pulled out of RCI Weeks, a PRIME same-size, same area, unit should be returned to Weeks. That's the only fair way to do it.
 
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Judy

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Madge said:
RCI Weeks members cannot make RCI Points reservations and RCI Points members can make RCI Weeks exchanges. This goes back to the fact that Points members have access to both systems; whereas, Weeks members do not.
Madge, please explain why.
 

timeos2

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Judy said:
Madge, please explain why.

I would ask if you were kidding but I know you're not.

The RCI Points system, like Fairfield, Sunbterra, Hilton, Starwood and on and on is a premium style membership. You pay more (although maybe not much more) to be a part of of it. Like those other systems, which RCI Points was established to give RCI an equal shot at those owners, members can use points or weeks to find what they want. In the end a use period does travel from the "points" ledger to the "weeks" inventory but, as you guessed, it will be the minimum level required. The big difference isn't between points and weeks but if you as an owner know what the minimum is that can obtain the trade you desire. In points it's easy - open the chart & look. In weeks you deposit and wait while the black magic of VEP and seasons and the phase of the moon detirmines if you get something or not. RCI knows what the minimum value is so it's easy for them to take that from the points side & put it back in weeks. For weeks owners that value is a guess at best so whatever shows up you have to assume was considered equal.

Weeks is basically trust based barter while points is a published system of values. I prefer to know what I have and can get thus I prefer points. The mechanics of the two systems both work - choose the one you prefer.
 

taffy19

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Some of us would like a reply from Madge as Madge represents RCI. I'll bet, we will not get a reply as I did not get a reply on my pm to Madge either but I read later that she went on vacation so could understand that the pm got lost somehow. We will never get the true scoop from RCI. I hope Madge can prove me wrong here. :eek:
 

timeos2

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iconnections said:
Some of us would like a reply from Madge as Madge represents RCI. I'll bet, we will not get a reply as I did not get a reply on my pm to Madge either but I read later that she went on vacation so could understand that the pm got lost somehow. We will never get the true scoop from RCI. I hope Madge can prove me wrong here. :eek:

I'm not going to be able to point you to a particular post but I know Madge has answered the question in the past. My guess is the answer will still be the same if she answers again. In summary "Thats the way it was set up".
 

Carolinian

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spoody said:
I was told the same thing at a Fairfield-Bonnett Creek presentation. He said eventually the weeks program would go away.

Cendant, which owns RCI, also owns Fairfield. Why in the world are they not able to control what is said there????? That is, if they really want to!
 

Carolinian

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GeorgeJ. said:
I think it's pretty clear. RCI Points members can pull out weeks from the RCI Weeks system (apparently any week that is available). RCI Weeks members only get the left-over weels from RCI Points that RCI decides to move over to Weeks from Points (they cannot go into Points inventory, while Points members can do the reverse). In other words, Weeks members are getting the short end of the stick in this deal...Right Madge?

While Weeks may not be going away, if this trend continues, there won't be much inventory worth reserving years from now...

Wouldn't it be more fair to Weeks members to actually return LIKE FOR LIKE weeks to the Weeks system? And I don't mean RCI's definition of Like For Like (which seems to mean that a prime 2-br Gold Crown Hawaii unit can be pulled from Weeks and an off-season Orlando unit can be returned to Weeks as a Like For Like; maybe not even a 2-br since Like For Like in RCI's definition may just mean a unit for a unit).

If a prime unit is pulled out of RCI Weeks, a PRIME same-size, same area, unit should be returned to Weeks. That's the only fair way to do it.

I agree completely. There should also be full and detailed DISCLOSURE of all swaps between systems. Back before RCI had even rolled out GPN (predecessor to RCI Points) Sing Li did a front page article on it in Timesharing Today and pointed out one of the problems would be what he termed ''magic balancing'' of moving inventory between the systems. How right his prediction was!

How can RCI Points really put back like for like when they undervalue Weeks inventory on the crossover trade grids? For example a 2BR blue week 12 at inland RID Sandcastle Village II in New Bern, a points resort, is awarded 44,000 points. For 41,500 of those points, he can take a prime red oceanfront Gold Crown 2BR July 4th week at Outer Banks Beach Club, the highest demand resort on the Outer Banks and a Weeks resort, courtesy of the crossover grids. To add insult to injury, they even have ''change'' left over!

At least for Europe, RCI's grids say ''FROM'' x number of points, so that they can charge more points for more demanded weeks and more demanded resorts that they take from the Weeks system. Will RCI also do that for the US and Caribbean???
 
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Carolinian

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iconnections said:
Some of us would like a reply from Madge as Madge represents RCI. I'll bet, we will not get a reply as I did not get a reply on my pm to Madge either but I read later that she went on vacation so could understand that the pm got lost somehow. We will never get the true scoop from RCI. I hope Madge can prove me wrong here. :eek:

There are unofficial but knowledgable RCI employees who will answer your questions candidly on www.timeshareforums.com and www.timesharetalk.co.uk

Sometimes, you have to get the candid talk rather than the corporate spin to get the straightest answer.
 

JeffV

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Feel better?
Carolinian said:
I agree completely. There should also be full and detailed DISCLOSURE of all swaps between systems. Back before RCI had even rolled out GPN (predecessor to RCI Points) Sing Li did a front page article on it in Timesharing Today and pointed out one of the problems would be what he termed ''magic balancing'' of moving inventory between the systems. How right his prediction was!

How can RCI Points really put back like for like when they undervalue Weeks inventory on the crossover trade grids? For example a 2BR blue week 12 at inland RID Sandcastle Village II in New Bern, a points resort, is awarded 44,000 points. For 41,500 of those points, he can take a prime red oceanfront Gold Crown 2BR July 4th week at Outer Banks Beach Club, the highest demand resort on the Outer Banks and a Weeks resort, courtesy of the crossover grids. To add insult to injury, they even have ''change'' left over!

At least for Europe, RCI's grids say ''FROM'' x number of points, so that they can charge more points for more demanded weeks and more demanded resorts that they take from the Weeks system. Will RCI also do that for the US and Caribbean???
 

spoody

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Points really seem like the way to go but none of my timeshares are participating in the points program.
 
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Carolinian

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spoody said:
Points really seem like the way to go but none of my timeshares are participating in the points program.

There is a certain logic in getting on the bandwagon in order to raid Weeks while you can, but this is just a short to medium term proposition. After RCI's manipulation of the system by such means as the unfair generic points grids destroys Weeks, all you have left is a really crappy reservation system. No thanks!

Most resorts are not joining Points. And think about it. How long will resorts continue to be kicked around being made second class affiliates through the unfair generic points grids before they wake up and find another exchange company to serve their members? Some, such as the Seasons chain in Europe, already have. While it takes a while for the word to get very far in timesharing, resorts are already hearing the grumbling of owners who have woken up to the points problem and the rentals problem. That can only get louder as the word gets out more.
 

JeffV

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I feel fine, thanks, but that really bothers you, doesn't it? :p
Carolinian said:
Maybe you would feel better if you would tell us what blue week it is that you own(ed).
 

taffy19

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Maybe, we should address this question to the legal department of Cendant as Madge is not going to reply or she would have done so already. JMHO.
 

Carolinian

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iconnections said:
Maybe, we should address this question to the legal department of Cendant as Madge is not going to reply or she would have done so already. JMHO.

...or state Real Estate Commissions and Consumer Protection Divisions of state Attorney Generals.
 

geekette

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my understanding is that Madge answers the oldest first, so the more we comment on Madge not commenting, the longer it will take for her to comment. or not...

:confused:
 

Madge

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geekette said:
my understanding is that Madge answers the oldest first, so the more we comment on Madge not commenting, the longer it will take for her to comment. or not...

:confused:
geekette,

Right you are -- this moved to the end of the line with every added post. Sorry for the delay.
 
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