[ Thread is unlocked ] Megarenter Rap Lawsuit

[chapjim]

I would count your blessings that you didn't receive a formal cease and desist letter then, as whatever you are doing doesn't qualify based upon whatever unknown thresholds were used to define MR activity - at least for now. Doesn't mean that might not change in the future - there could be multiple waves planned. We really don't know either way - nor will Wyndham ever share such confidential information with anyone publicly - given it impacts only a very small minority of the ownership base as previously covered.

I was one of many who thanked you and Richelle for your efforts on behalf of the Wyndham Forum. I stand by that.

However, it seems you've taken on the mantle of Emperor of the Forum and appointed yourself judge, jury, and executioner in addition to having the gift of clairvoyance. Out with the old! In with the new!

In other words, you're getting carried away with yourself.

 

[dgalati]

I was one of many who thanked you and Richelle for your efforts on behalf of the Wyndham Forum. I stand by that.

However, it seems you've taken on the mantle of Emperor of the Forum and appointed yourself judge, jury, and executioner in addition to having the gift of clairvoyance. Out with the old! In with the new!

In other words, you're getting carried away with yourself.

Sorry Jim you had your run at working the system to your advantage but it would be easier if you faced the reality that the status quo is over. @HitchHiker71 thank you and @Richelle for everything you have done to help level the playing field for all owners to book for personal use!

 

[am1]

Sorry Jim you had your run at working the system to your advantage but it would be easier if you faced the reality that the status quo is over. @HitchHiker71 thank you and @Richelle for everything you have done to help level the playing field for all owners to book for personal use!

Someone will always find away to get the best reservations at the lowest price and rent them out of they choose.

At the moment just need a few platinum accounts that you own and then find other owners that want you to manage their accounts. I use to rent points from other owners for cheaper then the guest confirmation would be. I think 2 nights at Skyline Tower for New Years during the week was 10 500 points. I would pay them $5.5 or $6/1000 or so and would avoid the 10 night limit per account and have the room rented for $3 or $400. I also did the 3 bedroom and 4 bedroom presidential units for the same amount of points but would keep them in my accounts.

Wyndham is eliminating the competition so prices will rise.

 

[dgalati]

Someone will always find away to get the best reservations at the lowest price and rent them out of they choose.

At the moment just need a few platinum accounts that you own and then find other owners that want you to manage their accounts. I use to rent points from other owners for cheaper then the guest confirmation would be. I think 2 nights at Skyline Tower for New Years during the week was 10 500 points. I would pay them $5.5 or $6/1000 or so and would avoid the 10 night limit per account and have the room rented for $3 or $400. I also did the 3 bedroom and 4 bedroom presidential units for the same amount of points but would keep them in my accounts.

Wyndham is eliminating the competition so prices will rise.

Not very Likely. Wyndham sold millions of points owners can not use for personal use. This should keep prices low. Supply and demand sets the price low.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I was one of many who thanked you and Richelle for your efforts on behalf of the Wyndham Forum. I stand by that.

However, it seems you've taken on the mantle of Emperor of the Forum and appointed yourself judge, jury, and executioner in addition to having the gift of clairvoyance. Out with the old! In with the new!

In other words, you're getting carried away with yourself.

If that is how I’m coming across then all I can say is it’s not my intention. I don’t speak on behalf of Wyndham or anyone else other than myself. I do often have strong opinions and my personality leans heavily toward intuition and judgment styles (INTJ) so I’m not at all surprised to see this characterization by you and/or others. I also happen to have a matter of fact style that can sometimes portray statements made as somewhat factual when what I’m stating is really just my personal observations when connecting the dots so to speak. I do try to avoid this by actually stating that I’m making a factual statement, but I’m not perfect and it is sometimes difficult to remember to differentiate myself in this respect when on public forums like TUG. I am who I am at the end of the day. You be you - I will be me.

I do feel that there’s a transition in play both within Wyndham and here on TUG as well. We are all attempting to navigate this transition together. However I can be of assistance - that’s my goal. Work with TUG Wyndham owners and work with Wyndham to improve ownership experiences for the majority of owners.

The inherent difficulty with this thread is that MRs don’t represent the majority - so if it seems like I’m coming across as somewhat judgmental toward this extremely small minority of the ownership base - that is feasible despite my best efforts to avoid doing so. I’ve said exactly that on other threads as well. With respect to this point - thanks for bringing this to my attention - it is most appreciated. I will endeavor to do better.


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[Eric B]

If that is how I’m coming across then all I can say is it’s not my intention. I don’t speak on behalf of Wyndham or anyone else other than myself. I do often have strong opinions and my personality leans heavily toward intuition and judgment styles (INTJ) so I’m not at all surprised to see this characterization by you and/or others. I also happen to have a matter of fact style that can sometimes portray definitively when what I’m stating is just my personal observations when connecting the dots so to speak. I am who I am at the end of the day. You be you - I will be me.

I do feel that there’s a transition in play both within Wyndham and here on TUG as well. We are all attempting to navigate this transition together. However I can be of assistance - that’s my goal. Work with TUG Wyndham owners and work with Wyndham to improve ownership experiences for the majority of owners.

The inherent difficulty with this thread is that MRs don’t represent the majority - so if it seems like I’m coming across as somewhat judgmental toward this extremely small minority of the ownership base - that is feasible despite my best efforts to avoid doing so. I’ve said exactly that on other threads as well. With respect to this point - thanks for bringing this to my attention - it is most appreciated. I will endeavor to do better.


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Not all that surprising; I came up IXTJ the last several times I got stuck taking Meyers-Briggs. Bear in mind it reveals personality preferences, not personalities.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Not all that surprising; I came up IXTJ the last several times I got stuck taking Meyers-Briggs. Bear in mind it reveals personality preferences, not personalities.

Curious did you mean ISTJ? Or do you straddle the N/S line and that’s what X signifies? I’ve used the MB system for many years for team building exercises along with the DiSC system. INTJs account for roughly 3% of the population so I know I’m an oddball from the outset.


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[Eric B]

Straddle

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Curious did you mean ISTJ? Or do you straddle the N/S line and that’s what X signifies? I’ve used the MB system for many years for team building exercises along with the DiSC system. INTJs account for roughly 3% of the population so I know I’m an oddball from the outset.
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Straddle

sound's like this could be a good thing if you want TS reservations at peak demand times.

 

[Rolltydr]

I was one of many who thanked you and Richelle for your efforts on behalf of the Wyndham Forum. I stand by that.

However, it seems you've taken on the mantle of Emperor of the Forum and appointed yourself judge, jury, and executioner in addition to having the gift of clairvoyance. Out with the old! In with the new!

In other words, you're getting carried away with yourself.

Well, I appreciate @HitchHiker71 and @Richelle efforts on behalf of most Wyndham owners, not just the megarenters and their supporters here on TUG. I find their actual knowledge of the system, and Wyndham contacts, refreshing and extremely helpful. They actually try to accomplish positive results for us instead of those that just bitch about how terrible Wyndham is, while breaking every rule they can get away with.

Your post is ridiculous and you sound like a petulant politician who the voters kicked out of office!

 

[HitchHiker71]

sound's like this could be a good thing if you want TS reservations at peak demand times.

Complex systems fascinate me on multiple levels. Probably why owning a timeshare works well for me and my family.


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[VacayKat]

Curious did you mean ISTJ? Or do you straddle the N/S line and that’s what X signifies? I’ve used the MB system for many years for team building exercises along with the DiSC system. INTJs account for roughly 3% of the population so I know I’m an oddball from the outset.


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Hahah- ok so this is why I get you some. I’m primarily an ENTJ, though as I age the J is less obvious.

that’s right - let us take this thread on another tangent!

 

[troy12n]

Your post is ridiculous and you sound like a petulant politician who the voters kicked out of office!

Nailed it...

 

[am1]

Not very Likely. Wyndham sold millions of points owners can not use for personal use. This should keep prices low. Supply and demand sets the price low.

Rentals prices will rise. The spread between using an owners VIPP account and rentals prices will increase. A small time VIPP owner cannot command a high price or have a list of clients. But a broker can easily do that. The new megarenter will be using other VIPP accounts more then before. A direct cause of Wyndham no longer giving VIP benefits to resale accounts. I dabbled in booking in others account but I had hundreds of millions of my own points in my accounts. Never got an exact total.

 

[troy12n]

Rentals prices will rise. The spread between using an owners VIPP account and rentals prices will increase. A small time VIPP owner cannot command a high price or have a list of clients. But a broker can easily do that. The new megarenter will be using other VIPP accounts more then before. A direct cause of Wyndham no longer giving VIP benefits to resale accounts. I dabbled in booking in others account but I had hundreds of millions of my own points in my accounts. Never got an exact total.

Hundreds of millions of points, lol... lots of "friends and family". Hard to see why Wyndham wants rid of people like you.

Also, "rental prices will rise" is not a concern for owners. Who cares. Irrelevant.

 

[Richelle]

Mega Renter John Doe: The Wyndham sales guy said I could rent my points, so I have a right to rent them!

Also Mega Renter John Doe: If a Wyndham sales guy's lips are moving, they are lying.

True story.

 

[Richelle]

Here’s an honest question to the rental business scenario: if Wyndham truly is against owners renting their points, should owners be allowed to rent via Extra Holidays?

IMO, this is where Wyndham loses some of its traction: “no, you cannot rent unless you rent through us allowing us to earn a commission.” There cannot be a double standard. Either renting is okay, or it’s not.

I have been a part of many “updates” where the sales person used renting “extra” points to cover MFs as a sales tactic. We all know what the official position of Wyndham is, however, when a sales person contradicts that official position and encourages you to make reservations at high demand resorts and list them for rent on EH, isn’t that a conflict of interest, at a minimum?

I am enjoying reading everyone’s thoughts on this. I will be sticking around to see what everyone has to say.

Blessings!

Wyndham never said they are not ok with renting. Wyndham is ok with the "occasional" rental. I've been told that by someone who is higher up and NOT in sales. What they are not ok with, is the level of renting they deem as megarenting. I don't know what those measurements are, but I would imagine hundreds of guest certificates or thousands of entries in a single year in their transaction history might trigger a red flag. The occasional rental is what EH is meant for. Despite what some salespeople may have said, it was never meant to be a way to profit from your timeshare. So there is no double standard in that regard. One can argue their profiting from EH rentals is a double standard, but the difference is, EH is a service to the owner. Mega renting doesn't service the owner. It services the megarenters and NON-owners.

Thanks to Wyndham enforcing the policy, I guess I don't have to worry about that anymore

I'm sorry to say that won't be the case. As Ron so aptly pointed out years ago, there are 10 more people waiting for that same reservation he just booked. I don't know that it is actually 10, but his point was that even if you take out the mega renters, there will still be more demand than supply for weeks like bike week or Mardi Gras. You will still need to be up at 12 am to have the best shot at getting that two-bedroom. With that said, at least it's 5 owners getting those 5 rooms, instead of one owner renting five rooms to non-owners for profit.

 

[am1]

Hundreds of millions of points, lol... lots of "friends and family". Hard to see why Wyndham wants rid of people like you.

Also, "rental prices will rise" is not a concern for owners. Who cares. Irrelevant.

No a few friends and family and lots of happy renters. I was always gotten rid of.

 

[Richelle]

Yes, that's what I said. I understand that there will be more "regular" owners in total, as some number of megarenters will be replaced by some (presumably much greater) number of "regular" owners. Thus, a greater number of "regular" owners will be able to book reservations. However, I'm still up against the same total number of points chasing the same amount of availability, so I don't see how any existing current "regular" owner is any better off once we've replaced some megarenters with regular owners. In fact, because we can assume each megarenter is replaced by numerous regular owners, for instance at 13 months, instead of one megarenter trying to snatch up 10 reservations at a lucrative location but who has to do so consecutively, I'm up against multiple regular owners who can all book right at midnight simultaneously.

So again, I don't see how I, as an individual existing regular owner, gets any benefit in terms of availability once the points from megarenters have made their way into new "regular" owner hands.

I'm still catching up on this thread, so if this point was already made, I apologize. There will always be more demand than supply on some of these weeks. There is no arguing that. However, one megarenter may have used millions of points on prime season reservations. When they dump those millions of points on the resale market, the new owners won't be booking the same exact rooms the mega renter did. Those millions of points would be used on reservations booked across multiple resorts throughout the year. So some might be booking low season and some might book high season. That leaves more prime inventory available to owners who are looking for it. It will not fix the supply problem, but it will mean more owners that actually want that prime week has the ability to book it, because you don't have one mega renter taking multiple rooms.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm still catching up on this thread, so if this point was already made, I apologize. There will always be more demand than supply on some of these weeks. There is no arguing that. However, one megarenter may have used millions of points on prime season reservations. When they dump those millions of points on the resale market, the new owners won't be booking the same exact rooms the mega renter did. Those millions of points would be used on reservations booked across multiple resorts throughout the year. So some might be booking low season and some might book high season. That leaves more prime inventory available to owners who are looking for it. It will not fix the supply problem, but it will mean more owners that actually want that prime week has the ability to book it, because you don't have one mega renter taking multiple rooms.

I'm not sure I'm completely sold on this because it depends on assumptions about how megarenters book. I kind of think I'm a regular owner, so I'm more likely to compete against other regular owners like me in terms of booking patterns rather than a megarenter, but who can say? But as Ron has long said, when he was a megarenter he might have had the goal of booking 10 units with ARP or at 10 months, but he had to do so consecutively, one after the other. If that megarenter was replaced with 10 or 25 or 50 regular owners, now I'm against multiple regular owners all trying to book the second it opens. So I'm not convinced I'm better or worse off with that replacement.

Further along in my saga of understanding you'll find I came to the realization that if this change helps me (as an individual existing regular owner) at all, it's that with many new "regular" owners replacing a much smaller number of megarenters, that some of the new regular owners are going to be like the people who join the gym but never use it. Some of the new owners are going to flake on their ownership and never or rarely book. (Whereas regardless of their patterns, I think we can assume megarenters use very close to every single point.) And that's where real new availability comes from - other people not using their owned points.

 

[markb53]

I am not a mega renter. I am also not a VIP. I am a regular owner. I have 182k CWA I purchased from Wyndham and I also have a Panama City Beach 210k EOY-E that I purchased on the resale market in order to reduce my average point cost. I have been an owner for over 10 years. I have never had a problem getting reservations I want for the date I need. I never use ARP. I generally book at 10 months. But sometimes at 4 to 5 months. I have never tried to get bike week at Daytona or Mardi Gras at New Orleans so maybe that’s why I havev’t had a problem. I have booked a 3BR presidential at Bali Hai over Christmas at 10 months. I have stayed at over 20 different resorts during prime weeks, since until recently I could only travel during school holidays. I have no particular feelings one way or the other about the mega renters in general since it doesn’t seem like they have had any effect on my ability to use my points when I want and were I want. When I first purchased from Wyndham I was pretty upset when I discovered the lies I was told. And I have to say that it was finding TUG back in 2011 and reading the posts by Ron and others that calmed me down and showed my how to use what I purchased including how to buy some resale points to make my ownership more useful.

Just my 2 cents.

I know I’m quoting my own post but I just wanted to add that I do feel that what wyndham is doing will help non MR owners. There should be more availability at 10 months for those of us who book at 10 months. For the most popular resorts at popular dates, I will be surprised if it changes at all. At those resort all the good stuff will still be gone at 10 month by 1:00AMET. Someone who gets on the computer at 7:00AM the next morning will still not find what they want. I hope I am wrong about that. The other thing that should improve is the availability at 60 days since there will be fewer VIP and probably no Mega-Renters grabbing inventory. Which will be good for the rest of us.

 

[VacayKat]

I'm still catching up on this thread, so if this point was already made, I apologize. There will always be more demand than supply on some of these weeks. There is no arguing that. However, one megarenter may have used millions of points on prime season reservations. When they dump those millions of points on the resale market, the new owners won't be booking the same exact rooms the mega renter did. Those millions of points would be used on reservations booked across multiple resorts throughout the year. So some might be booking low season and some might book high season. That leaves more prime inventory available to owners who are looking for it. It will not fix the supply problem, but it will mean more owners that actually want that prime week has the ability to book it, because you don't have one mega renter taking multiple rooms.

While I get this theory, without knowing exactly where the megarenters were booking and for what time frames, it is hard to say for sure one way or the other. For e.g. in 2020 I had a 2-bed BC rental that upgraded for spring break and I can not imagine I booked that at 10 months- probably 6ish, at most 8. I would have presumed that time to be high on rental demand and megarenters snapping it all up so no one could get it after the 10 month mark.
Personally, I would presume 10 regular owners to be more competition for the resorts I actually want to book at prime times because I’m not going where EVERYONE else is going to be. Which makes my reservation chances harder and my vacations more crowded.

I know I’m quoting my own post but I just wanted to add that I do feel that what wyndham is doing will help non MR owners. There should be more availability at 10 months for those of us who book at 10 months. For the most popular resorts at popular dates, I will be surprised if it changes at all. At those resort all the good stuff will still be gone at 10 month by 1:00AMET. Someone who gets on the computer at 7:00AM the next morning will still not find what they want. I hope I am wrong about that. The other thing that should improve is the availability at 60 days since there will be fewer VIP and probably no Mega-Renters grabbing inventory. Which will be good for the rest of us.

Given Wyndham can also grab that inventory at 60 days, not so sure about that. If they can rent it versus giving discounts on it - they are going to rent it. Capitalism 101 right there.

 

[paxsarah]

The other thing that should improve is the availability at 60 days since there will be fewer VIP and probably no Mega-Renters grabbing inventory.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a similar number of VIPs (in terms of number of people), but fewer points that those individuals will be using inside 60 days. (Even if your average VIP with a few resale contracts keeps them, there's no longer any reason for them to use those resale points specifically inside 60 days.)

 

[paxsarah]

If they can rent it versus giving discounts on it - they are going to rent it.

They have always had the capability to do this and they generally haven't (at least such that we noticed - people are still booking and getting discounts inside 60 days). They certainly could change and decide to do this in the future, but I just don't know what we expect to happen that would make them make that change.

 

[VacayKat]

They have always had the capability to do this and they generally haven't (at least such that we noticed - people are still booking and getting discounts inside 60 days). They certainly could change and decide to do this in the future, but I just don't know what we expect to happen that would make them make that change.

Yes, but I would guess not everyone who could have are - if they take 30% of the leftovers, and most of the larger units then that means fewer upgrades and fewer options for discounts on. Did not say they took it all.