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There Goes My retirement Plan!

WinniWoman

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The loss of the file-and-suspend mechanism is big news - - I wish this thread had a more informative title to bring it to people's attention.

Even before this change, two-earner couples received very little in return for the social security taxes that the lower-earning working spouse paid.

In the traditional couple model, one goes to work and the other stays home. They pay one set of social security taxes and collect 150% in benefits.

In the two-earner couple, if the second earner is in a lower pay bracket, or does not work for all of the maximum 30 years, they pay two sets of social security taxes and their benefit may be no better for it.

At least file-and-suspend gave the second earner a shot at getting something for that second set of taxes paid (because by waiting to age 70 the benefit on her own record might bring her something more than the 50% benefit that every spouse gets). Now even that will be gone!


We were never big earners- just middle class 5 figure salaries that put together helped us to do well. My husband and my incomes are not way far apart, but when I think of it I see that a woman who never worked and can claim 1/2 of her husbands SS is better off than me who has always worked full-time! I always hated working and now I see what an idiot I was!
 

vacationhopeful

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Did they change the Federal government rules for collecting retirement employees' benefits ... for the law makers and employees?

Don't worry ... those effected by this will just get MORE UNHAPPY as they are facing down WHAT this has done; the closer and closer they get to retirement.

I wonder how many 'equal' higher income married couples will get divoriced to "double dip" for a bigger (but personally earned) share of retirement income?

Here is the NEXT possible social security "revision" area: My sister gets to collect on HER first's husband (divoriced) of more than 10 years SS benefit; collects again on her DEAD husband (again more than 10 years) and finally, on HER income of maximum benefits plus her executive stock. She retired at 55 years old .... as a widow.
Of course, the 1st marriage did cost her a division of assets (no pre-nup.) The deceased 2nd husband had NO WILL or pre-nup. I think she had now brought her home 3 times: when she moved into it, after the 1st husband (end of marriage) and after her deceased husband (settling of his estate in a community property state).
 

WinniWoman

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Maybe time to do away with spousal benefits and everyone gets paid based on what they pay in? Not everyone has the need for one to stay home. Maybe spousal benefits for those who have raised children only. No having dogs would not count as having children.

Considering all this that is happening, I think SS should be for people that work and pay into it period, with the exception of if a parent dies and some going to dependent minor children until they reach age 18.

For a non-working spouse to get SS on her husband or wife's SS it should be only if he/she dies.
 

WinniWoman

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Did they change the Federal government rules for collecting retirement employees' benefits ... for the law makers and employees?

Don't worry ... those effected by this will just get MORE UNHAPPY as they are facing down WHAT this has done; the closer and closer they get to retirement.

I wonder how many 'equal' higher income married couples will get divoriced to "double dip" for a bigger (but personally earned) share of retirement income?

Here is the NEXT possible social security "revision" area: My sister gets to collect on HER first's husband (divoriced) of more than 10 years SS benefit; collects again on her DEAD husband (again more than 10 years) and finally, on HER income of maximum benefits plus her executive stock. She retired at 55 years old .... as a widow.
Of course, the 1st marriage did cost her a division of assets (no pre-nup.) The deceased 2nd husband had NO WILL or pre-nup. I think she had now brought her home 3 times: when she moved into it, after the 1st husband (end of marriage) and after her deceased husband (settling of his estate in a community property state).

Good points.

My friend has been very lucky as she liked working and just now is retiring at age 71. She was able to collect on her divorced husbands SS for years and now will switch to her own, which will be much higher. She used that money to upgrade her first floor condo in Old Greenwich, Connect. and she is all set.
 

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I can't say I'm very surprised by this development. This was a loophole that seemed destined to be targeted eventually. If I understand the linked articles correctly, no one over 62 should be impacted. If people over 62 who were already using this strategy were to lose it, I'd find that highly unfair.

This is a good reminder that the rules can change at any time. Right now, 401k contributions are tax deductible (up to about $20k). There's no guarantee that will continue. Right now, Roth withdrawals are tax free. Again, no guarantee that will continue. In my state, Michigan, pensions used to be essentially tax free. That changed in 2011.

Is it fair? Of course not, but I was raised by people who repeatedly drilled the phrase "life's not fair," into me … and they're often proved correct.
 

bogey21

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Full disclosure, I am retired with a Pension (Defined Benefit Plan) from my last employer. However, IMO the problem started with Employers being incented to first create, then switch to Defined Contribution Plans. Yes, I know it facilitates employee mobility, etc. but it puts too much pressure on Social Security (which should be a back-up) and is going to cause a train wreck down the road when younger generations reach retirement age. Many in this generation are unwilling or unable to save for retirement partially because they will spend much of their lives paying off Student Debt. In addition allowing employees to borrow against or close out 401ks for instant gratification should never have been allowed. Thus, although well intended authorizing 401ks in their current form and facilitating the expansion of student debt are doing more damage than good.

George
 
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Conan

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We were never big earners- just middle class 5 figure salaries that put together helped us to do well. My husband and my incomes are not way far apart, but when I think of it I see that a woman who never worked and can claim 1/2 of her husbands SS is better off than me who has always worked full-time!

Your benefit won't be less than hers, if that's any comfort.
"If your spouse qualifies on his or her own record, we will pay that amount first. But if he or she also qualifies for a higher amount as a spouse, they'll get a combination of benefits that equals that higher amount."
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/yourspouse.html#&a0=0

Of course, the social security taxes you paid got you nothing....
 
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SMHarman

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Maybe time to do away with spousal benefits and everyone gets paid based on what they pay in? Not everyone has the need for one to stay home. Maybe spousal benefits for those who have raised children only. No having dogs would not count as having children.
The went this model in the UK a while back. Same time they abolished joint tax returns.
 

am1

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As long as you are happy with your decisions. That is all that matters. Everyone plays it differently. It is great that you know you are going to lose money on the renovations but do them anyways.

Yes. Worth it as we are using it NOW. People said what you said to me 4 years ago when I started the house updating. Well, my first rooms- the master bath and our bedroom- are now already 4 years old and guess what? We have been using those rooms! Other 2 bathrooms 3 years old. Central hall and bonus room just completed this past spring. My kitchen- now already two years old and I love it! We have two rooms left (living room and study) and I am finishing up this spring hopefully. Just got rid of our 35 year old couch. I feel that if we have to work for another 5 or 6 years I am going to enjoy our home that we worked so hard for. When we come home from a hard day's work we want to be comfortable and happy with our house NOW. It really needed upgrading. We, of course, have to pay the labor- painting refinishing floors- for our living room- will buy furniture. All big $$$.

We can't move right now because of our jobs. Once we retire we have to give ourselves some breathing room to plan our move to another area. It will take a while to sell our home. (FOR SALE: Saltbox. Sunny. Big 2 car garage. It is only 2 bedrooms and no basement. Master bath has a steam shower. It does have a bonus room with big skylights, and a study (with direct access to garage) and 3 bathrooms. Whole house generator (propane) and central air. Large dog pen attached to garage with doggy door. Small screened porch with outside stamped concrete patio off that and long ground level deck with 2 sets of Marvin glass terrace doors from kitchen and dining room. Ground floor washer and dryer off the kitchen. Not an open plan house and simple- no fancy moldings or architecture or anything. Huge walk up attic. Vinyl siding. 8 year old roof. 8 year old System 2000 oil boiler. Outside above ground tall oil tank.10.5 wooded acres. Paved (twice)700 ft driveway which includes a bridge over a stream. House set way back- totally secluded. Good school district. Very well-maintained and clean by an OCD owner! Some local issues going on as well) The other thing is that despite the market here, new houses have sprung up around us that we will have to compete with. (Not that they are selling). In fact, a builder just bought the 2 lot property next to ours. So having an already somewhat updated house will help a little, although by the time we sell it everything we have just done will already be mostly 10 years old!!

Crazy! Lived here 28 years as of yesterday. We know we will lose on our home. When all is said and done, I think we will have put at least $200,000 into this $200,000 home over the 28 years. Market value - 4 years ago according to 3 realtors- when only the master bathroom was done- was $247,000 and they told us even with redoing the kitchen it wouldn't help too much because of the market/area. Trust me when I say this is a really nice house- such a shame. Not Better Homes and Gardens, but really nice. In other markets- like near NYC or in California or someplace like that this house and property would easily be a million dollars or more.

No way can we change jobs. When we leave these that will be it. Don't have it in us to look for jobs anymore. In rural areas like this- you have to commute no matter what. Part time jobs aren't worth the gas and wear and tear on our cars and bodies. (Heck- the full time ones are barely worth it! Lol!)

We only have one kid and he lives in NH (who is not financially stable) and we have no other family nearby. My brother (who lives about 1.5 hours from here) will probably end up in Florida) No close friends nearby either. So- the plan is to most likely move to NH, although who knows what we will be able to afford there? I told hubby no way am I going into a mobile home park!! We shall see!
 

Tia

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Really? Wow:ponder:

..........

Here is the NEXT possible social security "revision" area: My sister gets to collect on HER first's husband (divoriced) of more than 10 years SS benefit; collects again on her DEAD husband (again more than 10 years) and finally, on HER income of maximum benefits plus her executive stock. She retired at 55 years old .... as a widow.
Of course, the 1st marriage did cost her a division of assets (no pre-nup.) The deceased 2nd husband had NO WILL or pre-nup. I think she had now brought her home 3 times: when she moved into it, after the 1st husband (end of marriage) and after her deceased husband (settling of his estate in a community property state).
 

WinniWoman

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Your benefit won't be less than hers, if that's any comfort.
"If your spouse qualifies on his or her own record, we will pay that amount first. But if he or she also qualifies for a higher amount as a spouse, they'll get a combination of benefits that equals that higher amount."
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/yourspouse.html#&a0=0

Of course, the social security taxes you paid got you nothing....



LOL! I'm the female!;)
 

WinniWoman

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As long as you are happy with your decisions. That is all that matters. Everyone plays it differently. It is great that you know you are going to lose money on the renovations but do them anyways.


Yes. Not everything we do is based on making money off of it. Same with buying a car, or A TIMESHARE! LOL!

I love my house. I could drop dead tomorrow and never even make it to retirement. It's all about balance.
 

Tia

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Had wondered before how many x's can make a claim ONE persons SS? If someone has 3 x-spouses can all three be collecting SS off the one?
 

rapmarks

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Had wondered before how many x's can make a claim ONE persons SS? If someone has 3 x-spouses can all three be collecting SS off the one?
yes, if married ten or more years. probably not the third as I would imagine yui get it if married when spouse dies.
 

WinniWoman

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I believe you can claim on you divorced spouse as long as he/she has already filed and you were married at least 10 years and I believe it doesn't matter how many ex's you have had- they can all claim. I think the ex that is claiming off the divorced spouse can't be married, but not totally sure, but it is ok for the divorced person you are claiming off of to be married.
 

Talent312

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Is it fair? Of course not, but I was raised by people who repeatedly drilled the phrase "life's not fair," into me … and they're often proved correct.

How do we know that "life is not fair?" Well, think about it...
If life was fair, then /this/ (waving hand in circle) is what fairness is thought to be.
Wouldn't that be a hell of a note. -- unknown comedian
.
 

vacationhopeful

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Had wondered before how many x's can make a claim ONE persons SS? If someone has 3 x-spouses can all three be collecting SS off the one?

Yes, I was dumb-founded when she explained it to me. And she is VERY knowledgeable in this area ... from experience.
 

Sugarcubesea

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I can't say I'm very surprised by this development. This was a loophole that seemed destined to be targeted eventually. If I understand the linked articles correctly, no one over 62 should be impacted. If people over 62 who were already using this strategy were to lose it, I'd find that highly unfair.

This is a good reminder that the rules can change at any time. Right now, 401k contributions are tax deductible (up to about $20k). There's no guarantee that will continue. Right now, Roth withdrawals are tax free. Again, no guarantee that will continue. In my state, Michigan, pensions used to be essentially tax free. That changed in 2011.

Is it fair? Of course not, but I was raised by people who repeatedly drilled the phrase "life's not fair," into me … and they're often proved correct.

I live in Michigan and when I retire in 13 years (can you tell I'm counting down) I'm going to see what the laws are at that point and then decide if my choice of wanting to retire in either Arizona, Utah, or South Carolina still makes sense. No matter what I'm out of MI when I retire, I can't take the winters any more
 
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dsmrp

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Friend of mine made a spreadsheet of all the states to find the cheaper ones for retirees to live in. There were some online articles on the same thing.
She quit working nearly 20 years ago before her first child was born, and they lived off her husband's salary. They made some good stock investments and he retired early last year, and their eldest is still a senior in high school. I don't know how else they can afford it. But they live semi-frugally.

I never thought when I was younger, that the last 10+ years before retirement was going to feel as LONG as it does :(
 
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Sugarcubesea

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Friend of mine made a spreadsheet of all the states to find the cheaper ones for retirees to live in. There were some online articles on the same thing.
She quit working nearly 20 years ago before her first child was born, and they lived off her husband's salary. They made some good stock investments and he retired early last year, and their eldest is still a senior in high school. I don't know how else they can afford it. But they live semi-frugally.

I never thought when I was younger, that the last 10+ years before retirement was going to feel as LONG as it does :(

I made a similar spreadsheet… I have selected only warm states to move to…That is how I feel, like I am going to drag through these next 13 years
 

isisdave

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and me at 65 (so I could get Medicare)

I am sure you know that you do not have to stop working or file for SS benefits in order to get Medicare. Almost everyone is eligible at 65.

Depending on your employer, the size of the company, and any plan they have, it might be better to continue theirs. You don't HAVE to get Part B then if you're working, and there's no penalty for waiting in that case . This is what I did until retiring at 66 years, 7 months. [Employer's insurance was wonderful, but I'm healthy and Medicare would have been fine. But my wife and child couldn't be covered by the employer unless I took it for myself. That restriction cost my employer $1100 per month for 19 months.]

Since I retired in January, DW has been running on my employer's COBRA at $515 per month; next month she'll be 65 and change to Medicare at whatever price they finally agree on.

In any case, part A (hospital coverage) is free at 65 if you are eligible for SS benefits, whether or not you claim those benefits.

Incidentally, our plan is your plan ... I had to file at 62 due to unemployment, but after 5 months got a job with earnings that suppressed all benefits until FRA. Then I suspended. DW'll take spousal at FRA and we'll both collect at 70. In the meantime, we're dipping into the IRA.
 
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SMHarman

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Depending on your employer, the size of the company, and any plan they have, it might be better to continue theirs. You don't HAVE to get Part B then if you're working, and there's no penalty for waiting in that case . This is what I did until retiring at 66 years, 7 months. [Employer's insurance was wonderful, but I'm healthy and Medicare would have been fine. But my wife and child couldn't be covered by the employer unless I took it for myself. That restriction cost my employer $1100 per month for 19 months.]

Since I retired in January, DW has been running on my employer's COBRA at $515 per month; next month she'll be 65 and change to Medicare at whatever price they finally agree on.

Most employers self insurer so the 1100 goes into their bank account.
 

Blues

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What is the benefit of him filing and suspending now that the law changed?

Actually, my DW is at FRA (I'm not!), and we've been planning to file and suspend for her, even though I won't file a restricted application until she files for real. What's the advantage, you ask? Just one -- if she gets sick before the age at which we've planned for her to file, the file-and-suspend acts as a do-over. At that point, we can tell the SSA to undo the "suspend" part and pay us back-benefits for the intervening years. It acts as kind of an insurance policy in case your health status changes.

We had just been talking about making an appointment at the local SSA office to do that. I guess we'd better call in quick.

Bob
 
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