The Devastated Travel Industry

[WalnutBaron]

@Cornell, thanks for opening this new thread of discussion. I think @heathpack said it quite well: the impact of this insidious virus is unevenly felt by different strands of our society. Some of us have been able to continue working straight through while others have lost their jobs and have no idea when they will even be able to look for another job; some are retired and financially secure while others are raising young families with a mortgage to pay and wondering what the future holds; some of us live in rural places and can easily "spread out", making social distancing rather easy, while others live jam-packed in apartment buildings with hundreds of other people. So we don't all face the same impacts from this thing--that's for sure. With regard to the impact on children--whether very small or teenaged children--it's a real tragedy. All of the constructs that they had--their classroom and teacher(s), seeing their friends everyday, playing together or participating in spring sports, participating in spring prom--all of those things are suddenly gone, with not even the chance to have slowly eased them into their new reality. For those parents dealing with this, it's hard because our children and grandchildren have so many questions that often don't have good, clean answers, and often the questions only lead to more questions.

My oldest son has a 6-year-old daughter. Noticing how much she misses being with her friends at school, he and his wife decided to take matters into their own hands in a creative way: they baked cookies with their daughter, encouraged her to draw pictures of her favorite things to do with her friends when they were together, and bought Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs at Rite Aid. They put all of these, along with a homemade card, into about ten different baskets that they made with construction paper and then went around to the homes of each of her friends. She ran up to the front door, rang the doorbell, and then ran back to the car. Then she watched to see if the door would open. Most did, because most of her friends were home. She waved to them and watched them pick up the basket and told them to read the card. The card said, "I miss you. I hope you like the goodies. Let's meet on Zoom at 2:00 pm." Then my son set up a Zoom party for his daughter and her friends. They loved seeing each other, talking about the baskets, eating cookies while they talked and laughed. It was a bright light in the midst of the clouds.

By contrast, we learned last week of the tragic loss of two teenage girls in our small town. All we knew is that they were found by the river, which led, of course, to all kinds of speculation. Drowned? Kidnapped and raped? What could have happened? This week, the truth emerged: they each shot themselves. They left notes for their parents explaining that they could not handle the isolation and saw no reason for hope because there was no telling how long it would be before they would get their old lives back. It was just easier to end it all. How utterly tragic.

In other posts on this board, I have stressed that we cannot afford to look constantly inward during these uncertain times. When we choose to look outward and upward, we actually do much more for ourselves when we give ourselves away to others. They are blessed, and we are blessed by their gratitude. It gives us a positive sense of purpose and shields us from fear because we are focused on something other than ourselves. I hope this doesn't come across as "preachy". I certainly don't mean it that way. But, speaking for myself, this has been the perfect prescription for what ails all of us as we struggle through this historic and much different reality we all are dealing with.

 

[Cornell]

@WalnutBaron beautifully written . Thank you. And the suicides of the teen girls .... I just can’t.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Although times like these are traumatic, especially for kids, it does build character. Good times are nice but usually what results is everyone feels entitled. They take the good times for granted.

Throughout history, the Great Depression, wars, plagues and other tragedies were not pleasant but did build a sense of community, humility and a renewed feeling of gratefulness in good times.

All of us will get through this and perhaps build character from this. Tragedy can end up being a good thing in the end.


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[bnoble]

This is going to have a devastating ripple effect beyond what anyone can imagine I think.

I’m an advisor to (and former President of) a Board for a non-profit organization that holds a number of major in-person professional conferences each year. The Board had already been talking about reducing travel due to climate impact--flying is one of the larger ways that we as individuals contribute to CO2 concentrations. This moment has given the Board the chance to radically re-think how many in-person events we hold. That has serious revenue implications for the organization, but if they get in front of it, they can manage that transition rather than have the transition manage them. But, if the Board goes in the direction I have recommended, members of our scholarly community will cut back from 2-4 annual trips of up to 4 nights each to one trip of at most 5.

I am sure that organization is not the only one having these conversations. And if those conversations are as prevalent as I suspect, Monykalyn is right: there is going to be some major restructuring along the entire travel ecosystem.

 

[bbodb1]

@WalnutBaron - there is a useful discussion to be had about the two girls in general. For the most part, we have been (somewhat) isolated for about 30 days (give or take). What could have occurred in the course of 30 days to cause these girls to come to such a sad and tragic conclusion?

30 days.

Realize how brief a time that is and if their notes were a true representation of their feelings, what are we doing wrong in a society where we seem to be producing such fragile kids?

The previous may sound like a heartless question - it is meant as exactly the opposite.

 

[Fredflintstone]

@WalnutBaron - there is a useful discussion to be had about the two girls in general. For the most part, we have been (somewhat) isolated for about 30 days (give or take). What could have occurred in the course of 30 days to cause these girls to come to such a sad and tragic conclusion?

30 days.

Realize how brief a time that is and if their notes were a true representation of their feelings, what are we doing wrong in a society where we seem to be producing such fragile kids?

The previous may sound like a heartless question - it is meant as exactly the opposite.

I don’t think you are heartless at all.

Tragic events in time always have casualties. It doesn’t lessen the heartbreak of the loss, but it’s a sad reality of tragic events itself.

I feel bad when I see kids can’t even play in a playground. Here, all the playgrounds are taped up. That’s hard on kids.

All we can do is love and support our kids. This is out of everyone’s control. No different than the great wars or depression.

However, human beings are overall resilient. Most kids are resilient. As long as they are loved, most will get through this fine and with a different world view.

In life, I have always found that the worst things that have happened to me turned out to be a good thing in the end. When my daughter died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 12, I was devastated. I took up drinking for a bit. Now, my memories sustain me and I am glad her suffering is over and boy did she suffer. Her last words to me while I held her hand were, “ I will always love you daddy.” I will always love her too and have comfort in that.


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[PigsDad]

@WalnutBaron - there is a useful discussion to be had about the two girls in general. For the most part, we have been (somewhat) isolated for about 30 days (give or take). What could have occurred in the course of 30 days to cause these girls to come to such a sad and tragic conclusion?

30 days.

Realize how brief a time that is and if their notes were a true representation of their feelings, what are we doing wrong in a society where we seem to be producing such fragile kids?

The previous may sound like a heartless question - it is meant as exactly the opposite.

I think you also need to focus on the outlook, and what we see in the news reports. Think about it -- these girls probably had read or heard of many of the stories that fill our news stating that this "thing" will be around for 1 to 2 (or more) years. Heck, many here are saying we need to be shutdown until there are zero cases, and that could take many months! To a teenager, that can feel overwhelming. I'm just so sad these girls didn't seek out help and instead, chose the option they did.

Kurt

 

[Glynda]

Thank you for saying that. My high school senior is ending her year without all the "fun" stuff that they worked years for. She had bought her prom dress back in February...My college senior is graduating into an absolute mess. She has grad school lined up but if things are still shut down then the government needs to step in and mandate higher level education is FREE. The government likes to coddle the 1%-how about taking care of everyone else for a change?

Oh that hurts my heart too! I adore so many of the residents I get to see, and I do AL visits once a quarter too. Looking through a window or on a screen isn't the same...

My granddaughter has gone to the same private girls school since she was 2. She's a senior this year and has long waited for the privileges that come with that status at her school. Silly things...a different skirt for the uniform, The Shell House, an old garden house only for a senior hangout. Prom. Every year since she was in middle school she's been required to wear a white dress and attend the graduation ceremony. A sea of girls in white celebrating the graduation of the seniors, big sisters, also dressed in white. When we bought her dress for last year's graduation, she said, "Well, at least next year it will be us they are wearing white for." No, it won't be happening. I hate it for her but you know what she says? She says that it's OK. That she would rather everyone be safe. She doesn't want to lose her at risk parents and grandparents or the families of friends of a lifetime thus far. She doesn't want anyone to go through this virus because of her. Anne Frank and others hid for two years from the Germans in an attic and we think this is bad??? Good grief.

 

[WalnutBaron]

@WalnutBaron - there is a useful discussion to be had about the two girls in general. For the most part, we have been (somewhat) isolated for about 30 days (give or take). What could have occurred in the course of 30 days to cause these girls to come to such a sad and tragic conclusion?

30 days.

Realize how brief a time that is and if their notes were a true representation of their feelings, what are we doing wrong in a society where we seem to be producing such fragile kids?

The previous may sound like a heartless question - it is meant as exactly the opposite.

Thanks, @bbodb1, for your thoughtful questions. Of course, there are no answers. I don't personally know these girls or their families, but our neighbors across the street who have two children in high school do know them. The families, as one can imagine, are completely devastated and asking the same questions. How could their daughters' lives spiral to such depths in such a short time that they would feel so desperately isolated? From what I understand in talking with our neighbors, the girls were not "bad kids". They did, however, belong to a close circle of girlfriends--what we used to call "cliques" when I was in high school--and the clique had been sinking lower and lower via social media as they tried to deal with their new reality. As I said, there are no answers--just an incredible sense of loss.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Thanks, @bbodb1, for your thoughtful questions. Of course, there are no answers. I don't personally know these girls or their families, but our neighbors across the street who have two children in high school do know them. The families, as one can imagine, are completely devastated and asking the same questions. How could their daughters' lives spiral to such depths in such a short time that they would feel so desperately isolated? From what I understand in talking with our neighbors, the girls were not "bad kids". They did, however, belong to a close circle of girlfriends--what we used to call "cliques" when I was in high school--and the clique had been sinking lower and lower via social media as they tried to deal with their new reality. As I said, there are no answers--just an incredible sense of loss.

Humans are social beings. There is mental pain when we are isolated. I can sure attest to the unbelievable pain a parent feels when they lose their child. It’s a hell I wish on no one regardless of whether they are deemed as good or bad kids. The pain remains. I know, in my case, I had to stop alcoholism, endured a divorce, had many years I couldn’t even talk about it. It took years for me to have the courage to clean out her room. It’s been 18 years and sometimes I still have pain but faith in God and good memories help.

But, saying that, I did become stronger as a person. I am grateful everyday now and yes have humility because I know how precious life is and how little control I have sometimes except my attitude and determination. I never take anything for granted anymore either.


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[Monykalyn]

@Fredflintstone I cannot even imagine your loss, and time does give perspective - very true. It is just harder for kids to understand that perspective. I do think someday they will have an appreciation and understanding that is difficult see now.
@WalnutBaron really appreciated how you wrote that post. And tragic for those families. I don't think the girls who died were "fragile" but we tend to dismiss that kids are really having issues with this. I'm thankful everyday my daughter chose to call a suicide hotline vs actually attempting-as scary as it was to be woken at 2 am with a call from them my daughter is here, with me.-this happened way before the pandemic. She is a "good" kid, volunteers, straight A's in honor program, accepted to every college she has applied to - including into their honors programs, has lots of friends including etc. Outwardly she should be on top of the world. Depression is scary.

Grieving takes different forms, and over different things. I would never presume to tell someone how to handle their grief over losing something they were looking forward to. I think some think this should be a competition by comparing how bad things were in different era's. Dismissing concerns - no matter how petty or insignificant they may be to you-doesn't lead to instant healing. I may be more sensitive to the issues others are dealing with due to the situation with my kid. I also think we are going to see much worse re:mental health with this pandemic the longer this lockdown goes on, and it won't go away when things start resuming. People are going to be hurting-socially, mentally, financially-and that can't be dismissed with a "at least you survived" attitude, thereby dismissing what their very real feelings are. The travel industry is a big part of that iceburg that is now melting away at an incredible rate.

 

[TravelTime]

Thanks, @bbodb1, for your thoughtful questions. Of course, there are no answers. I don't personally know these girls or their families, but our neighbors across the street who have two children in high school do know them. The families, as one can imagine, are completely devastated and asking the same questions. How could their daughters' lives spiral to such depths in such a short time that they would feel so desperately isolated? From what I understand in talking with our neighbors, the girls were not "bad kids". They did, however, belong to a close circle of girlfriends--what we used to call "cliques" when I was in high school--and the clique had been sinking lower and lower via social media as they tried to deal with their new reality. As I said, there are no answers--just an incredible sense of loss.

It is very sad to me to hear this story about the two teenage girls. The families must be devastated and overwhelmed with confusion, sadness, grief and "what ifs." I am so sorry that two young lives have been destroyed by the isolation and depression the girls must have felt.

One thing to keep in mind is that a large percentage of teens and adults had fragile mental health before this begun. Mental health experts have been warning about the additional suicides that will result from the SIP/SAH since the beginning. I have been very worried about how this will affect people's mental well being. Not just having to stay home but also the fear of the virus itself, job losses, lack of food, pressure to pay bills, uncertainty about the future, loneliness, isolation, broken dreams, etc. will put tremendous strain on people's mental health, especially those with pre-existing mental health conditions. But it can also affect anyone even without underlying mental health conditions.

This is a once in a lifetime, unprecedented event. It is affecting everyone worldwide in some way. We really can't be the judge of what is worse. For many people, the risk of getting sick and dying is less scary than the shut downs and losses resulting from the SIP/SAH orders. This is especially true when we are being told this could go on for years until there is a vaccine. We do not know what "hell on earth" means for some people. I think that is what drives suicide. Life becomes unbearable and they see suicide as a solution. It is easy for those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to safely SIP/SAH to judge others about how bad their behavior is. We can lecture about how great we all are for "saving lives" by staying home. For some people, "saving lives" will happen when the SIP/SAH orders are lifted and they can go back to living.

 

[PigsDad]

We can lecture about how great we all are for "saving lives" by staying home. For some people, "saving lives" will happen when the SIP/SAH orders are lifted and they can go back to living.

Well stated, and I completely agree. I feel that way too many people are focusing on the first sentence and not giving any attention or credibility to your second sentence, even to the point of calling people "selfish" for having the opinion that SIP/SAH can at some point be more dangerous to many vs. relaxing the orders.

Kurt

 

[SteelerGal]

As a mother of 5 young children, we talk about “The Virus” and the changes that are needed. No more park but we go on bike rides. No more school but they see their teachers/classmates during the week. Our organized extra curricular activities are now online. We can’t travel to the beach or hotels but we have learned about Australia and have decided we should go. Thanks to FaceTime, we still see all of our family. We still do fun activities but it only includes our family and is local. Honestly it’s how I grew up.

We were a large family in a small CA town too poor to do many activities. School friends were school friends while home friends were family and/or close family friends. Everyone went Church on Sundays. And weekends were for visiting.

For our family, except for the closing of the schools and mini vacations, it’s really the same.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I must applaud most for doing SIP. It tells me they do care about others. I suppose they also don’t want to risk themselves.

The one thing that really bothered me was when others selfishly hoarded TP, sanitizers and disinfection products. I watched one lady at Walmart tell the stocker to just place all the sanitizer in her cart. The stocker said there are people behind you who want some too. She turned around and looked. Then she said, “I don’t give a flying *** about them.”

If this progresses, there will be other challenges for many. I think the unemployment is now at 22 million in 3 short weeks. This will mean many will have financial stress. We may need to teach our kids how to make due, be glad you have a roof over your head and food on the table. Again, good for some kids to learn. We may not be the land of plenty as supply chains continue to be disrupted and money gets tight. Just try to buy Lysol wipes right now and you will know what I mean. How many people can survive on half or less their regular income?

Although tough times, it can be the best of times as people understand all that matters is good relationships, memories and character.

God does things for good reasons and never gives us something we cannot handle.


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[Monykalyn]

. We may need to teach our kids how to make due, be glad you have a roof over your head and food on the table. Again, good for some kids to learn.

Completely agree!
Probably good for some adults to learn as well

 

[TravelTime]

We may need to teach our kids how to make due, be glad you have a roof over your head and food on the table.
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This reminds me of what my mother used to say.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I think children are more adaptable than we give them credit for. What throws them off is when they see the adults around them freaking out, and then they deduce that they should be freaking out as well.

I bend that way in my thought because I grew up being taught what we should do if the air raid sirens went off because a nuclear-tipped warhead was headed our direction and we had about an hour to respond. Looking back at it now, one might be tended to think that must have been terrifying for the children. But it wasn't, because it was treated and presented to us as a matter of fact. It was important that we should know what to do. Somewhat the same level as looking both ways before you cross the street.

It was simply part of life. Unfortunate perhaps, but then life always includes unfortunate elements, and you learn to accept that and move on.

 

[mav]

One of my daughters is a high school teacher. The teachers are in very close contact with the students with classes on line, etc. She said most of the them have the attitude that they would rather the restrictions then be possibly dead. One of the students there already was battling cancer and was out sick , and one had passed away last year with cancer. That was shocking to the students and they already had a fear of death's reach at a young age. She is also teaching at a probably 95% minority school, and the Covid 19 death rate is reported to be shockingly high in minorities. Todays students also have the burden of school shootings which when I was in school was absolutely unheard of. I truly feel for todays students.

 

[Cornell]

One of my daughters is a high school teacher. The teachers are in very close contact with the students with classes on line, etc. She said most of the them have the attitude that they would rather the restrictions then be possibly dead. One of the students there already was battling cancer and was out sick , and one had passed away last year with cancer. That was shocking to the students and they already had a fear of death's reach at a young age. She is also teaching at a probably 95% minority school, and the Covid 19 death rate is reported to be shockingly high in minorities. Todays students also have the burden of school shootings which when I was in school was absolutely unheard of. I truly feel for todays students.

I find this reaction of the students to be upsetting. There is an almost zero fatality rate for children with coronavirus.

 

[heathpack]

I find this reaction of the students to be upsetting. There is an almost zero fatality rate for children with coronavirus.

Yes, but they legitimately may worry about their family and people they know in their community. It’s pretty traumatic to lose your grandmother, your parents, your aunt, your pastor, your coach, etc.

A colleague of mine at work was telling me that her 14 year old daughter was hard hit by the COVID death of her Dean of Students. She goes to a small private girl’s middle school and this is the woman who the girls would go to with any kind of personal or academic problem. The daughter is a little crushed but also freaked out because the woman who died was in her 40s. Not really on a tween’s radar to think that person might die.

It’s a tough thing to process.

 

[geist1223]

Why is the students wanting to live upsetting?

 

[Cornell]

Mav's post said that the student's were worried about their OWN deaths, not the deaths of older family members. Big difference. I feel that children should be motivated to comply with SIP directives by talking about the collective health of their community. But the fact that they have the notion that they themselves are going to die is an irrational fear.

Lots of people love to compare the fragility of today's kids vs. children of earlier generations. I don't want to debate that . But part of that fragility could be coming from the fact they today's kids have an onslaught of information (much of which is wrong) from social media.

A responsible teacher / adult would be sitting these kids down and explaining that the chance of their own deaths is practically zero, rather than letting them continue with these irrational fears.

 

[SteelerGal]

I am not surprised by their concerns because many community members may have underlying health conditions that make them more susceptible. Also many of their parents, guardians, etc maybe essential workers which increases risk.

 

[Monykalyn]

bend that way in my thought because I grew up being taught what we should do if the air raid sirens went off because a nuclear-tipped warhead was headed our direction and we had about an hour to respond.

Where did you grow up?? I grew up in Minot North Dakota-dad was civilian tech on AFB after he got out of Air Force. Grew up with the knowledge if USSR decided to send missiles our area would be one of the first hit. Even as a child I thought hiding under the desk was silly. I've also been around tornadoes whole life and the actually did-and still does-frighten me more as could see death/destruction first hand and immediately after. Doesn't mean I'm freaked out by tornadoes but do take warnings seriously-and so do our kids-they have a drill when sirens go off-dress quickly, shoes, phone, pillow or blanket they can grab easily and get thy hineys to tornado shelter. WE have flashlights, fresh batteries, fully charged phones and portable chargers. I also have a stash of cash and grab my purse with cash/ID.

One of my daughters is a high school teacher. The teachers are in very close contact with the students with classes on line,

While I hope the online stuff doesn't extend til fall, I must say our teachers are doing a really fantastic job keeping in touch with the kids. My sister teaches at a charter school in St Louis, and yes, the population there has a different outlook/?attitude? not sure of word but fear is maybe too strong.