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The 1.5 hour presentation...

change the model .....


no more tours......


but preaching to the choir


this audience wouldn't (a second time) buy from the developer



my dignity is not worth the gift

price the product fairly and deceotive sales practices would no longer be needed
 
100% Agreement Here -- But Till The Biz Model Changes, I Might Still Go For Freebies.

change the model .....

no more tours......

but preaching to the choir

this audience wouldn't (a second time) buy from the developer

my dignity is not worth the gift

price the product fairly and deceotive sales practices would no longer be needed
I've been advocating an all-new timeshare biz model based on Wal*Mart for "new" timeshares & CarMax for resale timeshares.

I am not holding my breath.

Meanwhile, The Devil just might make me sign up to go on timeshare tours for freebies now & then.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 
I bought 2 resale with Fairfield. Have never been on sales presentation. Who pays for the gifts? Nothing is free.
 
Freebies Are Not Free.

Who pays for the gifts?
I always assume the cost of the freebies is part of the timeshare company's overhead.

Overhead expenses ultimately are paid for out of the money the company absorbs from the customers.

So if you're somebody who paid full freight for a timeshare, thank you very much.

The freebies are greatly appreciated.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



 
We went on an owners tour of the Marriott in Palm Beach. It took 20 minutes at the most. All we did was look at pictures and left with 15,000 Marriott Reward Points.
 
I went on a Fairfield presentation in Florida about 5 years ago, when I was staying there on an RCI exchange. The manager came in toward the end, explaining how I could use non-Fairfield weeks we already owned in their "PIC" program. I was about to be late for a luncheon date, so I did not absorb much of what she was saying. She turned from "sweetie pie" to "witch" when I politely insisted on receiving the freebie and leaving now.

Over the past year I have bought Fairfield Points packages at rock bottom prices through Ebay (at another southeast Florida resort). I got the "owner update" invite when I picked up the parking pass at check-in last February. I haven't gone on a presentation in years--just too annoying and time-wasting. But I decided to go on this one because I wanted to learn more about FF Points. I knew there had been many changes in the PIC program. And I wanted to find out if a fixed/deeded off-season week I've owned for over 10 years at a FF resort in Arkansas could be converted to FF Points at a reasonable cost.

At the presentation, the female manager (very well dressed, attractive, age 30-ish, acting quite sophisticated and friendly) got involved when my salesman could not find my Ark. week in their computer system. She had to call down to the resort to obtain the details of what I owned. Then she said that she was trying to work out a good deal for me. She popped back and forth alleging that she was trying to "pull some strings" to get me a great deal.

After much phony drama, she presented me with what she proudly proclaimed to be "the deal of the century" (NOT!). She said it would cost only XXX dollars a month but she wouldn't show me the long form on which she had written all the numbers. I told her firmly that I needed to leave in 5 minutes for an appointment and that I just needed to see the form and analyze it myself. I was sure it would be way too expensive but I just wanted to know.

I was totally shocked when I saw the ridiculous figures. Basically she wanted me to purchase 77,000 every other year developer points (at crappy Palm Aire, not even the much nicer Pompano property where I bought the Ebay Points) in order to bring in my Ark. week for 77,000 annual points. And the price: $19,500. !!!!!!!!!! I told her that I would never pay that kind of money for such a small amount of points. She wanted to start negotiating down but I had no interest in wasting anymore time so I told her to "forget it, just let me get my gift and get out of here." I was speaking in a calm, polite but firm voice.

Quite unexpectedly, she began shouting at me, accusing me of of being there just for the gift, and saying how dare I waste her time negotiating a "great price" for converting the Ark. week. She then said it's a damn shame that I'm "so hard up" I have to "stoop to this sleezy level" to get a free gift.

Well that did it! I stood up and yelled back at her, saying she had some nerve accusing me of doing something sleezy. I had just come for "an owner's update." On the other hand, she and her colleagues engage in sleezy tactics day in and day out trying to sell weeks or points to niave people at exorbitant prices. I yelled that the 77,000 EOY points she tried to sell me for $19,500 could be bought on Ebay for $1.00.

There were about 40 other potential "victims" in the room and they were all watching the shouting match. Some of them even climbed up on chairs to get a better look. The salespeople were sitting by silently, some holding their foreheads as if they had a headache. (I guess they saw their chance of making a sale evaporate). I repeatedly yelled that they should go on Ebay and not buy anything from these salespeople. At one point I feared that the manager was going to assault me. But I didn't care. I would have loved to see her get arrested, sued, and lose her job. That's how angry I was. And those of you who know me know that I'm a very calm, easy-going, peaceful person.

A male employee in a suit and tie rushed over and asked me in a very polite way to follow him so that I could get my gift. He asked if he could get me something to eat or drink (no thanks) or if he could pay for a cab to bring me back to the other resort where I was staying (no thanks, my car is parked outside). He did not offer an outright apology for what had happened but his actions and words were very kind and concilliatory.

I'm glad I had the unexpected opportunity to warn the other people attending, but I don't think I'm interested in attending any more "owner updates" or sales presentations, no matter how tempting the gift is.
 
Wow, Jennie, that must have been something! I wonder how many people did buy that day. ;)

Sue
 
Sending A Mild Mannered Person Over The Top.

I stood up and yelled back at her, saying she had some nerve accusing me of doing something sleezy.
By me, you did exactly the right thing.

And I can tell you were prepared to keep it polite from beginning to end, right up till the timeshare seller crossed the line by going way beyond hard-sell & clear on over to insults & accusations.

By me, management needed to take that timeshare seller to the woodshed after the timeshare seller pushed a customer's buttons so badly that the ensuing uproar attracted unfavorable attention from customers all through the sales room.

That wasn't your fault. The overaggressive timeshare gets all the blame for that.

Still, hats off to you for letting'm have it out of both barrels once they crossed the line so badly.

Freebies forever !

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 
Knowing the Pompano Beach set up and exactly were you where and where you were staying, I was told I didn't qualify for the free gift as I as had attended an "owner update" within the last 16 days ... this was in Mar08. The VP/manager has "looked" it up on the computer.

So, I dragged the new sales woman downstairs, to the parking ticket woman who asserted that I had NOT been a guest at a Wyndham property for over 5 weeks. Been in the Pompano area, but not staying with Wyndham. Told the new sales lady it was BS to NOT give me a gift - after hassling me to attend.

The VP had refused to kick me off the top floor in person. I guess I am on his "no freebies" list. The sales staff was not doing so good in the Feb-Mar timeframe with the regular winter snowbirds, according to my info. I can only imagine what has happen to their sales numbers (and commission checks) in the past 6 months.

Did get a couple of Danishs, an apple and the good juice ... as I know where the food is stashed.:p
 
That's why I don't go any more. Is the freebe gift worth that emotional hastle?

Never in my experience.

Don't go to the timeshare presentation, you'll have a better vacation.

Practice your full nelson headlock along with the body flip and power slam to the carpet. That gets their attention every time and you get out sooner than 90 minutes. :D

Sterling:hysterical:
 
In Mexico they ask you before they begin if you have any other obligations that day...LOL.

We get our free gifts, we get to see the resorts we may buy resale or even just exchange into and sometimes we get out of there quicker than other times depending on how many questions we ask, which of course depends on our interest in possibly buying resale at their resort..

They are relentless i Mexico though, but we pretty much take it in stride, have some fun with their stories or fabrications and then tell them we own over 8 timeshares and if we have to we tell them the best priced resale we ever bought...which was $1.75!!!! They know they are done then....LOL.

We do not usually go to a presentation for under $400. US, so we do not mind spending more than 90 minutes.....2 or 3 hours is equal to $200 - $133. per hour not a bad take with breakfast included LOL.

We also have more flexibility with ur vacation time I guess since we do go on 10-12 vacations per year, all timeshare, so what is a few hours I guess.....we have been given the rude attitudes and the name calling and such but we actually laugh at it all...makes them even madder....

Mind you we have some timeshares we did buy developer before we knew better and we also have one we bought a penthouse in Ixtapa, not available resale and had to have...so we do buy...just we know for the most part better now....for some reason they always offer to buy our timeshares off us and give us credit towards a purchase at their resort....no way Jose, we like what we have...LOL
 
Tactic #1-- tell them what you know:
1. Just lay your cards out there and outsmart the salesperson. I was out in less than an hour after the salesperson told me the RCI Weeks system is on its way out... in a 3 minute, rationale, factual, indisputable diatribe I explained why that's not possible. Then I explained how I got all my other timeshares in other conversation. He quickly realized he has nothing to offer me.
 
Tactic #2-- negativity
With everything they show you, be negative or disagree with your spouse. "that view sucks!" "We hate packing" "Hawaii is too humid" "Palm Springs is too cold."
The salesman is always looking for that glimmer of hope... the thing that you like or enjoy that they can work up in your mind as a possible reason for buying. Take it all away by being negative.

It can be fun if you step outside yourself and know it's all a game.
 
I went on a Fairfield presentation in Florida about 5 years ago, when I was staying there on an RCI exchange. The manager came in toward the end, explaining how I could use non-Fairfield weeks we already owned in their "PIC" program. I was about to be late for a luncheon date, so I did not absorb much of what she was saying. She turned from "sweetie pie" to "witch" when I politely insisted on receiving the freebie and leaving now.

Over the past year I have bought Fairfield Points packages at rock bottom prices through Ebay (at another southeast Florida resort). I got the "owner update" invite when I picked up the parking pass at check-in last February. I haven't gone on a presentation in years--just too annoying and time-wasting. But I decided to go on this one because I wanted to learn more about FF Points. I knew there had been many changes in the PIC program. And I wanted to find out if a fixed/deeded off-season week I've owned for over 10 years at a FF resort in Arkansas could be converted to FF Points at a reasonable cost.

At the presentation, the female manager (very well dressed, attractive, age 30-ish, acting quite sophisticated and friendly) got involved when my salesman could not find my Ark. week in their computer system. She had to call down to the resort to obtain the details of what I owned. Then she said that she was trying to work out a good deal for me. She popped back and forth alleging that she was trying to "pull some strings" to get me a great deal.

After much phony drama, she presented me with what she proudly proclaimed to be "the deal of the century" (NOT!). She said it would cost only XXX dollars a month but she wouldn't show me the long form on which she had written all the numbers. I told her firmly that I needed to leave in 5 minutes for an appointment and that I just needed to see the form and analyze it myself. I was sure it would be way too expensive but I just wanted to know.

I was totally shocked when I saw the ridiculous figures. Basically she wanted me to purchase 77,000 every other year developer points (at crappy Palm Aire, not even the much nicer Pompano property where I bought the Ebay Points) in order to bring in my Ark. week for 77,000 annual points. And the price: $19,500. !!!!!!!!!! I told her that I would never pay that kind of money for such a small amount of points. She wanted to start negotiating down but I had no interest in wasting anymore time so I told her to "forget it, just let me get my gift and get out of here." I was speaking in a calm, polite but firm voice.

Quite unexpectedly, she began shouting at me, accusing me of of being there just for the gift, and saying how dare I waste her time negotiating a "great price" for converting the Ark. week. She then said it's a damn shame that I'm "so hard up" I have to "stoop to this sleezy level" to get a free gift.

Well that did it! I stood up and yelled back at her, saying she had some nerve accusing me of doing something sleezy. I had just come for "an owner's update." On the other hand, she and her colleagues engage in sleezy tactics day in and day out trying to sell weeks or points to niave people at exorbitant prices. I yelled that the 77,000 EOY points she tried to sell me for $19,500 could be bought on Ebay for $1.00.

There were about 40 other potential "victims" in the room and they were all watching the shouting match. Some of them even climbed up on chairs to get a better look. The salespeople were sitting by silently, some holding their foreheads as if they had a headache. (I guess they saw their chance of making a sale evaporate). I repeatedly yelled that they should go on Ebay and not buy anything from these salespeople. At one point I feared that the manager was going to assault me. But I didn't care. I would have loved to see her get arrested, sued, and lose her job. That's how angry I was. And those of you who know me know that I'm a very calm, easy-going, peaceful person.

A male employee in a suit and tie rushed over and asked me in a very polite way to follow him so that I could get my gift. He asked if he could get me something to eat or drink (no thanks) or if he could pay for a cab to bring me back to the other resort where I was staying (no thanks, my car is parked outside). He did not offer an outright apology for what had happened but his actions and words were very kind and concilliatory.

I'm glad I had the unexpected opportunity to warn the other people attending, but I don't think I'm interested in attending any more "owner updates" or sales presentations, no matter how tempting the gift is.


Incredible. I envy you the opportunity to tell these shysters off. Well done!!!:banana:
 
Don't need a stopwatch

We have never set a timer. Generally speaking, we stay as long as we keep asking questions.

Here are the parameters we attend sales presentations under:
· Upper level TSs Only (Marriott, Starwood, Hilton, etc.)
· Only TSs that we would actually be interested in buying someday
· When we have seen the property and have enough info to feel we are fully informed, we stop asking questions.
· When they start making offers, we firmly state we now have all the info we need and we are not ready to make a decision.
· When they make a different offer or restate the existing offer in some other way, we say we are not ready to make a decision and stand up. That is their queue to give us the points or incentive. Since we are not there for the incentive, per say, we are free to walk out. We have always received the incentive.

We primarily attend Marriott presentations. Possibly because we are multiple Marriott owners, they usually assign us a different level of sales person. They are low pressure, informative and skip all the introductory type of information knowing we are already up on Timeshares (little do they know we are well informed TUGers). Since they have a high percent of new sales with multiple owners, they seem less resistant to our response. Better to spend their time on the next presentation…

We would never use up part of our vacation time to attend a sales presentation for a property we are not potentially interested for an incentive. Life is too short for that.
 
Tactic #1-- tell them what you know:
1. Just lay your cards out there and outsmart the salesperson. I was out in less than an hour after the salesperson told me the RCI Weeks system is on its way out... in a 3 minute, rationale, factual, indisputable diatribe I explained why that's not possible. Then I explained how I got all my other timeshares in other conversation. He quickly realized he has nothing to offer me.

One reason you can give for RCI weeks not being on the way out.......

RCI will not allow any resort to become a points resort that isn't at least Silver Crown. 90% of RCI's inventory of timeshares aren't Silver Crown. I know this for a fact because Twin Rivers just affiliated with RCI (we were exclusive to II for 27 years), and we were interested in becoming a points resort. We were told we couldn't because Twin Rivers doesn't qualify.

Jennie, you did what I have wanted to do several times, even at a Marriott presentation, when the salesperson outright lied to us. I was angry. I was actually turning red, according to Rick and our son, when I asked the guy to clarify his lie and explain what he meant. The guy kept to his story. Scumbag timeshare salespeople. :( Too bad they cannot take "no" for an answer.
 
On Kauai, when we checked in, the Pahio desk people asked if we would go to a presentation. I said no, and she began to list what we could get for free. When she said an adult and a kid free trip - for a cruise that we really wanted to take on the boat we'd planned to book anyway - - I figured why not?
She gave us vouchers for a free adult and a free kid - would have been charged about $200 for these tickets if we had to pay (I forget exact price but it was big, at least that much). She just wanted to get her numbers up for the presenters and could care less about my negative attitude..

When we got to the sales office, I told the salesman right away there was no way I'd ever buy, he kept asking what price it would take and I kept saying FREE is the only price.
After nine minutes of this -- yes nine minutes - a personal best! -- he said "ok, leave, I don't need to practice on you". (He was quite angry) Out we went. We already had the vouchers as I said and the 'big closer' had to sign off on them which he did in about 30 seconds after our 'salesman' told him to.

My kids (9+11) were mad because they hadn't eaten enough cookies - they thought they'd be there a while and could pace themselves lol - I just glared and said take some to go, we've got to leave, and out we went!

Oh yes, I scheduled the t/s tour for 9AM so we didn't really miss any beach time. A good deal to me. Sometimes it's worthwhile.
I did feel slimy afterwards and vowed not to do it again, but that has worn off with time. Under the right circumstances and for the right gift, I"d do it again.
Just be persistent, have a story that they can't punch holes into, and stick to it.
 
Jennie, you did what I have wanted to do several times, even at a Marriott presentation, when the salesperson outright lied to us. I was angry. I was actually turning red, according to Rick and our son, when I asked the guy to clarify his lie and explain what he meant. The guy kept to his story. Scumbag timeshare salespeople. :( Too bad they cannot take "no" for an answer.


I'm interested. What did he/she say? Marriott may be interested in your experience. I had one sales guy in Marriott tell us that if we bought resale our week would be worthless in a couple of years. I called and spoke with Marriott Customer Relations after this tour because he used scare tactics on us and because what he said was simply not true. I don't know if he did anything but I felt better for the telling.
 
We were told that the sales presentation at the Coral Resorts would be 1 hour for owners, so we went. The booker told us to give an excuse as soon as we sat down that would limit the tour to an hour. So we did.

The salesman stood up, I think he was a giant, and yelled, "YOU'LL LEAVE WHEN I SAY YOU CAN LEAVE" all puffed out like a peacock and ten feet tall.

We stood up and demanded a manager. The manager agreed with the guy (since I'm sure he was afraid of him)

We marched into the sales office, and in front of all the prospective tour takers, we repeated the line the salesman said "YOU'LL LEAVE WHEN I SAY YOU CAN LEAVE"

Several prospects left the tour office before they scuttled us out the door. They gave us a check for $100 immediately. The sales giant showed up at the tour office and started yelling at me again but this time he was cursing as well.

We ran away. When we got home I read an article in Timesharing Today about this guy. It seems he was a convict before he was a timeshare salesman. They found this out AFTER he beat up the sales manager.

Morale, what goes around, comes around.... even in timeshare sales!!!
 
1.5 Hour Presentation

I just wanted to check on prices and availablity of units on the beach in NC so we went to the big office and went upstairs.
Chatted with a nice salesman and got around to asking about prices and availability of units on the beach.
He sais he would have to check with his boss.
This was after about a half hour of nice talk.
He came back with his boss who immeadatily said just give me a credit card and I'll check.
I said all i want is to know if you have any units available and prices-you don't need a credit card for that.
He said they need a credit card in order to check their inventory.
I said no problem it's not that important to know about your units and started to leave with my girlfriend and our other friend who was with us.
He got next to me and pushed me back down in my chair and said you don't want to leave yet.
I said you don't want to do that again and got up and we started to leave and he stood in the door and said just hang on a minute and I said your minute was up 5 minutes ago and we left.
That was the worst one I have ever been to
 
I just wanted to check on prices and availablity of units on the beach in NC so we went to the big office and went upstairs.
Chatted with a nice salesman and got around to asking about prices and availability of units on the beach.
He sais he would have to check with his boss.
This was after about a half hour of nice talk.
He came back with his boss who immeadatily said just give me a credit card and I'll check.
I said all i want is to know if you have any units available and prices-you don't need a credit card for that.
He said they need a credit card in order to check their inventory.
I said no problem it's not that important to know about your units and started to leave with my girlfriend and our other friend who was with us.
He got next to me and pushed me back down in my chair and said you don't want to leave yet.
I said you don't want to do that again and got up and we started to leave and he stood in the door and said just hang on a minute and I said your minute was up 5 minutes ago and we left.
That was the worst one I have ever been to

OMG! I can't even imagine that.

Edited to add...What resort was that at?
 
Another shirt

My husband likes to ask lots of questions about resale, specifically eBay. He also happens to have a very deep voice that carries well. We have joked about having tshirts made that read something like "buy timeshare resale save thousands" and reveal them underneath a top shirt at the 90 minute mark. Can they govern what we wear?

My shirt is "friends don't let friends buy timeshares" English on front Spanish on back.:)
 
We just went to the "owners update" at Wyndham Kingsgate/Governors Green. We had a salesperson whose name I think was Chris. Very Professional, didn't try to give us a load of BS.

I explained that I have purchased resale and asked why I should pay full price versus 5 cents on the dollar. He told me "there is no reason" He then asked some questions about our expierence at the resort and sent us off to the "closer". The closer met us in a open room full of sales people meeting perspective suckers, er.... customers. I told him the same thing in my naturally loud voice, and he pretty much said he had something else to take care of and we should go collect our gift.

We were out of there in under 25 minutes for which we recieved a $100 visa gift card.

I wish they were all that way!

Joe
 
We do not usually go to a presentation for under $400. US, so we do not mind spending more than 90 minutes.....2 or 3 hours is equal to $200 - $133. per hour not a bad take with breakfast included LOL.
Before we went to Cabo in August, the highest amount that I had ever heard was being offered in Cabo was $300 at the Grand Mayan in San Jose. (I would never go to a presentation with that outfit no matter what they offered.)

But, we met another Tugger couple who arrived the day before we left and we had a nice visit with them at the marina. They mentioned that when they checked into the Finisterra that afternoon, they were invited to do a presentation at Playa Grande for $100 and some activity discounts. I told them they could probably get a better deal if they asked for more cash.

They went back to the gal who had signed them up, presented her their invitation, and said they wouldn't do it for just $100. She asked if they would they do it for $400, and they said yes. That's what they got and they said it covered their lunches, drinks, and a couple of dinners for the rest of the week. The presentation was definitely worth it to them, and it would be to me, too.

We had a little tiff with the salesman at Cabo Villas at the end of the presentation we did there. He was bemoaning the fact that since the Grand Mayan had come to town, they were having to offer more and more cash to get people to attend presentations. And since we knew what presentations were like, we really shouldn't even be there.

That really ticks me off when they start berating people for coming to the presentations when their outside contacts beg, pester, and cajole us with cash and gifts to get us in there. It is their own business model to get prospects this way--we didn't come up with that scheme--and if it's not working for them they should find some other way to do it. But, as long as they are going to make it worthwhile (and with the high prices in Cabo, it really does make it more affordable to go down there), we'll go.
 
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