Sweden has the highest daily coronavirus death rate in the world – and it’s getting worse

[amycurl]

New Zealand has basically irradicated the virus. So there are clearly more or less successful strategies to be had.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Brett]

New Zealand has basically irradicated the virus. So there are clearly more or less successful strategies to be had.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

sure, a successful strategy.
New Zealand is a Pacific island nation that took very aggressive actions -

"aggressive” contact tracing measures and "strict level four lockdown" with a "14 day quarantine" in separate detention centers to anyone flying to the island

"New Zealanders didn’t complain, they didn’t protest, they simply followed the rules" (set by a female national leader)

 

[SmithOp]

Easy to do in NZ when the population is around 5 million.

UK is about the same size area-wise but the population is around 65 million, big difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Rjbeach2003]

Wow, it seems that some here would have liked to go Sweden's path and suffered thousands of more cases and deaths. I come down on the side of fewer deaths because of this virus. When I posted Friday, using the same rate as Sweden in the US, the death toll would be 130,000. As of yesterday it would have been 145,000. Today's figures haven't been posted yet. Sweden is now #8 in the world in deaths/million. All indicators show continued rise in Sweden. It is sad, but not a model. BTW herd immunity hasn't occurred anywhere, and it's not sure that it will.

 

[Ken555]

This video shows a perspective of how Australia compared to Sweden. It's meant to be somewhat amusing, so take it as intended. And Sweden released results from the first quarter a couple days ago that show they did well (expanded by 0.1%) but they are expected to enter a recession nonetheless.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=257216362060299

 

[davidvel]

As long as the virus is not gone, no model is successful. We shall count at the end.

Exactly what many are missing. Until there are relatively few new cases everywhere, only then can we look back and see if we can determine if the shutdowns/lockdowns (as opposed to other less draconian measures) made a sufficiently meaningful reduction in death to justify the crushing of our economy, the many resultant non COVID19 deaths, loss of jobs and housing. Too soon to know.

 

[Yellowfin]

This video shows a perspective of how Australia compared to Sweden. It's meant to be somewhat amusing, so take it as intended. And Sweden released results from the first quarter a couple days ago that show they did well (expanded by 0.1%) but they are expected to enter a recession nonetheless.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=257216362060299

A recession is inevitable when the whole world has been frozen but at least not a depression like in many other countries.

Today Sweden announced no Covid related deaths for the first time since March 13th

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/31/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

 

[Brett]

A recession is inevitable when the whole world has been frozen but at least not a depression like in many other countries.

Today Sweden announced no Covid related deaths for the first time since March 13th

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/31/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

recession - depression --- Wall Street Journal ---- June 1 2020

 

[Yellowfin]

recession - depression --- Wall Street Journal ---- June 1 2020

View attachment 21570

Big disconnect between Main street and Wall street. The Fed is buying a lot of securities.
But look around what is happening in the big cities where a lot of people are unemployed.

 

[Brett]

Big disconnect between Main street and Wall street. The Fed is buying a lot of securities.
But look around what is happening in the big cities where a lot of people are unemployed.

"main street" needs to put their government unemployment and stimulus checks into Wall Street then everyone will be rich

or be a socialist welfare state like Sweden

 

[Rjbeach2003]

View attachment 20648View attachment 20649

Easy to do in NZ when the population is around 5 million.

UK is about the same size area-wise but the population is around 65 million, big difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Your statement makes no sense. The UK is an island, with more people, connected by ferry, chunnel as well as airlines. with Europe and the rest of the world.

This video shows a perspective of how Australia compared to Sweden. It's meant to be somewhat amusing, so take it as intended. And Sweden released results from the first quarter a couple days ago that show they did well (expanded by 0.1%) but they are expected to enter a recession nonetheless.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=257216362060299

Australia's total today if it had the same death rate at Sweden would be 10,886. Numbers get outdated so fast. If the US had the same rate as Australia we'd have 1320 deaths.

 

[davidvel]

Your statement makes no sense. The UK is an island, with more people, connected by ferry, chunnel as well as airlines. with Europe and the rest of the world.


Australia's total today if it had the same death rate at Sweden would be 10,886. Numbers get outdated so fast. If the US had the same rate as Australia we'd have 1320 deaths.

What do you mean by death rate? Deaths per million pop?

 

[Yellowfin]

you mean this Denmark?

https://www.thelocal.dk/20200601/danes-flock-to-parks-and-beaches-on-sunny-monday-off

 

["Roger"]

A not so rosy look at Sweden's experiment (and I fully understand that others will find the glass half full or even better)...

While it really is a virtual tie, today Sweden barely passed France in the number of deaths per million. That would seem to indicate that the countries are doing equally well, but you have to remember that France (along with Italy and Spain) were at the epicenter of the first outbreak of coronavirus outside of China. It is also the number one tourist destination in the world meaning that they had tons of travellers (including large numbers of Chinese) travelling to their country.

The fact that the countries named above were at the epicenter of the initial outbreak gave other countries at least a window of opportunity to prepare. The other Scandanavian countries chose to lockdown, Sweden (and initially England) chose not to. As noted often, the other Scandanavian countries (which not only had the opportunity to react, but share a culture more common to Sweden than most counties) have done much better with regard to deaths per million.

As far as Sweden benefitting (economically and socially) from being more open, France is entering stage two of its opening up. That includes restaurants outside of Paris being allowed to reopen. (In Paris, the restaurants are limited to serving at sidewalk cafes.) Middle schools are reopening and many other of the same conditions that Sweden allows (but not all) are now available to the French. For more on stage two of France's reopening, see below. So, has Sweden really done all that well?

I realize that others will have different views, but I think that the one above is worthy of discussion...

France begins 'Phase II' of easing lockdown measures as coronavirus abates

France began a second phase of easing lockdown rules on Tuesday as official figures show the novel coronavirus outbreak continuing to diminish in the country following an initial loosening of restrictions…

www.france24.com

 

[normab]

Personally I think it’s too soon to make any of the conclusions/comments because the disease is still so active.

I think we have to wait until the disease rate slows down, whether naturally or via vaccine. I’d like to see the numbers tallied retrospectively.

 

[Ken555]

you mean this Denmark?

https://www.thelocal.dk/20200601/danes-flock-to-parks-and-beaches-on-sunny-monday-off

Sad. We’ll probably see an increase in infections there soon.

But, this is nothing new. We are having the same experiences in the USA, especially in the last two weeks, so this shouldn’t surprise anyone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Yellowfin]

A not so rosy look at Sweden's experiment (and I fully understand that others will find the glass half full or even better)...

While it really is a virtual tie, today Sweden barely passed France in the number of deaths per million. That would seem to indicate that the countries are doing equally well, but you have to remember that France (along with Italy and Spain) were at the epicenter of the first outbreak of coronavirus outside of China. It is also the number one tourist destination in the world meaning that they had tons of travellers (including large numbers of Chinese) travelling to their country.

The fact that the countries named above were at the epicenter of the initial outbreak gave other countries at least a window of opportunity to prepare. The other Scandanavian countries chose to lockdown, Sweden (and initially England) chose not to. As noted often, the other Scandanavian countries (which not only had the opportunity to react, but share a culture more common to Sweden than most counties) have done much better with regard to deaths per million.

As far as Sweden benefitting (economically and socially) from being more open, France is entering stage two of its opening up. That includes restaurants outside of Paris being allowed to reopen. (In Paris, the restaurants are limited to serving at sidewalk cafes.) Middle schools are reopening and many other of the same conditions that Sweden allows (but not all) are now available to the French. For more on stage two of France's reopening, see below. So, has Sweden really done all that well?

I realize that others will have different views, but I think that the one above is worthy of discussion...

France begins 'Phase II' of easing lockdown measures as coronavirus abates

France began a second phase of easing lockdown rules on Tuesday as official figures show the novel coronavirus outbreak continuing to diminish in the country following an initial loosening of restrictions…

www.france24.com

I read that Sweden had the spring break very early, mid February. The Swedes went on vacation to Italy, France, Spain, other countries and this may also explain the higher numbers. If you look at their curve, they had more cases than Denmark and Norway right from the beginning. At their time their neighbors were not in lockdown either. Of course when you start from a larger basis you would have more cases overall. Like other mentioned, we shall see the tally at the end.

 

["Roger"]

I read that Sweden had the spring break very early, mid February. The Swedes went on vacation to Italy, France, Spain, other countries and this may also explain the higher numbers. If you look at their curve, they had more cases than Denmark and Norway right from the beginning. At their time their neighbors were not in lockdown either. Of course when you start from a larger basis you would have more cases overall. Like other mentioned, we shall see the tally at the end.

This seems like a very credible response (honestly I do mean that), but when I look at the data for Norway, it doesn't seem to square up.

(I only looked at Norway and perhaps that is part of the problem. I wasn't trying to cherry pick, I just chose the first of the other Scandanavian countries that came to mind. Perhaps, Denmark and Finland square up more with what you wrote.)

In any case, Sweden (at least according to what you wrote) had its spring break mid February. Norway locked down on March 12. On March 11, Norway had 626 reported cases while Sweden had 500. (I should mention that Sweden has a bigger population.)

Finally, while you might think otherwise, I am not rooting against Sweden. I think it would be wonderful if what they did was a success. Things might still change in the long run, but as a data driven person, I have to admit at present it does not look good.

 

[Yellowfin]

In any case, Sweden (at least according to what you wrote) had its spring break mid February. Norway locked down on March 12. On March 11, Norway had 626 reported cases while Sweden had 500. (I should mention that Sweden has a bigger population.)

You will see in this list that the spring break ended between February 15th to March 6th. Most importantly the winter break in Stockholm ended February 28th. Because not a lot of tests were done at the time, because the results were delayed by 7-10 days, most of those that returned to Sweden with Covid by the end of February would not be part of the numbers you mention.
Also, who travels during the spring break? Typically young families with kids and and college students. When they came back sick, they probably only had minor symptoms or no symptoms at all so they would not be tested. You would need a second hand transmission to the elder population to register in the statistics what the young people caught during the spring break.

Sweden School Holidays in 2024 (Full List)

Sweden School Holidays in 2024 / National Holidays / Government Holidays / Official Academic Holidays as per Department of Education / Download & Print

www.edarabia.com

 

[cman]

You will see in this list that the spring break ended between February 15th to March 6th. Most importantly the winter break in Stockholm ended February 28th. Because not a lot of tests were done at the time, because the results were delayed by 7-10 days, most of those that returned to Sweden with Covid by the end of February would not be part of the numbers you mention.
Also, who travels during the spring break? Typically young families with kids and and college students. When they came back sick, they probably only had minor symptoms or no symptoms at all so they would not be tested. You would need a second hand transmission to the elder population to register in the statistics what the young people caught during the spring break.


View attachment 21604

Sweden School Holidays in 2024 (Full List)

Sweden School Holidays in 2024 / National Holidays / Government Holidays / Official Academic Holidays as per Department of Education / Download & Print

www.edarabia.com

Guys, any comparison between these two countries is useless without taking into consideration the percentage of the population that was actually tested. Sweden is testing about 27K/mil of their population. Norway is testing about 46K/mil of their population. You see where this is going? If Sweden is testing a lower percentage of their population, all things being equal you'd expect "less" cases, right? But, even though they have a lower rate of testing, they have more cases. I guess my point is, that there are other factors that need to be considered before making direct comparisons.

 

[Rjbeach2003]

A recession is inevitable when the whole world has been frozen but at least not a depression like in many other countries.

Today Sweden announced no Covid related deaths for the first time since March 13th

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/31/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

What do you mean by death rate? Deaths per million pop?

Today US death rate/million is 326 for a total of 108,009 deaths, Sweden's is 443 for a total of 4468. With the US population of 330 million, if we had the same rate per million as Sweden we would have 146,190 deaths. If we had the deaths rates of it's two closest neighbors Denmark and Norway we would have 33,000 using Denmark and 14,500 using Norway. All of these countries are different from the US so that comparison's aren't as relevent, but Sweden, Norway and Denmark are very much alike so the comparison is apt.

 

[Ken555]

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

Sweden’s top epidemiologist says more should have been done in his country to tackle Covid-19 at the start of the outbreak, in order to keep the death rate down.

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes — Bloomberg

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

apple.news

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

["Roger"]

Interesting discussion.

Just a couple of other numbers. On March 31, three weeks after Norway decided to do a lock down and four weeks after the spring break for Stockholm, Norway still had a higher number of reported cases (4641) than Sweden (4435). So it took a while for the Swedish numbers to take off. (The spring break for northern Sweden came a week later, but the number of people living there is small, borders between the Scandanavian countries up there are very loosy goosy, and this is not where Sweden is experiencing its greatest outbreak.)

Norway apparently has been more aggressive testing. Perhaps that is a good thing.

It need not be all or nothing on the shut down. Even one of the leaders of Norway wonders if they might have considered keeping the schools open but doing the other things that they did.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

For comparisons to the USA, the country that is the closest match both geographically and culturally, is Canada. We had similar dates of first infection by Covid-19. Most of our cases also initially came from Europe, so the more densely populated eastern areas of both countries have not fared as well as the western areas. Many of our initial infections also originated in the US, from snowbirds and other spring-break visitors returning to Canada. That was just unfortunate timing, but it is what it is.

The USA does not have the worst death rate in the world and we don't have the best. Both countries made mistakes, especially early on. We did not fully learn the lessons soon enough that were being played out in places like Germany and Italy. We could probably have done better. In Canada, our biggest weakness was long-term care and nursing homes. Over half of our Covid-19 deaths have been in these facilities. Large food-processing plants were probably the next worst area. Government inquiries are underway to figure out what needs to be improved for the future.

We started to lockdown at about the same time as the USA, but the initial response was slow and late in both countries, IMO. I think the one big difference is that we generally had a more coordinated approach at both the provincial and federal levels, and any lockdowns tended to be more severe and consistently applied and followed. That was probably the biggest contribution to the different results.

The current US death rate is 327 per million of population. With Canada's current death rate of 196 per million, US deaths to-date would be closer to 65,000 versus the actual 108,000. It is too late to undo what has already been done, but there are potential lessons to be learned by both countries for the future.

We are also both better than Sweden, at least so far!! However, only time will truly tell.