SVO Management

[StarwoodCanadafan]

In a US where the Economy is crumbling...

... don't you find it remarkable that SVO doesn't care more then ever about customer service.

One of my first bosses told me something which stuck with me all this time. "Treat everyone from the secretary (yes, long ago), janitor through to the executives and their assistants with the same respect and integrity. You never know when one of them moves to a different place where they can influence your life. " After a while of conciously trying, it comes naturally to you in the course of people that you touch day to day. Word of mouth is such a powerful thing, even if you don't believe in Karma. (I am such a strong believer in Karma.. but, don't need to preach to those here..).

The words 'Their time is coming..' is such a powerful statement, and one which should be full of worry to those reading this from SVO. One unhappy customer can cause more business loss then what you gain from 100 happy customers. I know this for a fact.

So, how many unhappy people are there here SVO?

SWcanadian: You put it in words exactly how a lot of us feel. Their time is coming -- I know I never would buy another SW. I am a happy owner of 6 other timeshare companies.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Great info Ken555!

tHANKS FOR THIS!

Great thread - good to see a summary of our issues with SVN.

Changes in elite status over the last couple of years have squashed my plans for buying more SVN properties with intent to requalify and purchase direct. I sympathize with all of you who are in the process of gaining 5* only to see SVN pull the rug out from under your feet. And, I sympathize with those who are 5* and see their benefits slowly erode over time.

SVN's lack of timely and accurate communication with its members is appalling. Their discourtesy to existing owners by changing policies without notice or discussion is an insult to all of us who have supported and advocated their program. While they may have the right to make unilateral changes, doing so in the manner in which they have will only create discontent among the very people who are their best natural supporters (and source of additional sales).

I have a number of issues with SVN, some less important than others (several of these have already been posted in this thread):

1. Reservations are more difficult and costly than necessary by not having a real-time online reservation system (preferably with ability to request room/building location, etc).

2. Lack of transparent decisions which affect owners. A prime example of this is the special assessment confusion at Vistana Resort. Difficulty in obtaining Board minutes and decisions in a timely manner, and in ways other than via marketing or financial disclosures. Inherent in this is the obvious top-heavy makeup of the HOA Board's by SVN personnel, even though they may officially only represent themselves. It would be nice and appropriate for Board meetings to be recorded and posted on MSC for us to watch and comment (but they don't want our involvement, so...).

3. "Owner's Updates" are anything but. Would be nice to have a real "Owner's Update" when visiting a resort - perhaps they should simply offer them in a group session strictly related to program updates and new resort info, etc. Then again, they don't want owner's talking in groups, and they see these as prime sales opportunities. I don't want to waste anyone's time, but their sales staff often doesn't know more than I about the status of the program and it ends up wasting my time. If they insist on continuing this method of updates/sales, the least they should do is train their staff better. Of course, accuracy in sales is contrary to common t/s sales tactics.

4. Relationship with SVN and SPG seems inequitable. Not just the value of the conversion of your developer week into SPG points, but that SPG members can now exchange points to reserve a room at SVN properties and the resort HOA does not receive any funds for those rentals. This includes paid rentals at the resort as well. I am amazed that this is true, and if the HOA Board was truly independent this policy would never stand. Of course, given that it's available, I will certainly try to take advantage of it...

I may continue to buy and recommend SVN properties as a great way to travel, but fully with the qualification to buy resale and with realistic expectations. I believe my value out of my resale purchases have been fantastic, both direct with SVN and via II. I don't personally feel as burned as others here, since I haven't bought direct (well, I did once, but was able to rescind because SVN couldn't get the property built even over a year after they started sales). At this point, I see no advantage in buying direct under almost any circumstances.

My goal for the coming months is to learn more about the Marriott, Hyatt, and Hilton programs. I may rent at one next year to test the waters elsewhere again (it's been a few years since I've stayed at a Marriott). I expect my next purchase will not be Starwood.

 

[calgarygary]

... don't you find it remarkable that SVO doesn't care more then ever about customer service.

One of my first bosses told me something which stuck with me all this time. "Treat everyone from the secretary (yes, long ago), janitor through to the executives and their assistants with the same respect and integrity. You never know when one of them moves to a different place where they can influence your life. " After a while of conciously trying, it comes naturally to you in the course of people that you touch day to day. Word of mouth is such a powerful thing, even if you don't believe in Karma. (I am such a strong believer in Karma.. but, don't need to preach to those here..).

The words 'Their time is coming..' is such a powerful statement, and one which should be full of worry to those reading this from SVO. One unhappy customer can cause more business loss then what you gain from 100 happy customers. I know this for a fact.

So, how many unhappy people are there here SVO?

Starwood made a decision just over a year ago that customer service wasn't a priority. I found it incredible at the time when they hired a CEO who had 0 experience in the hospitality industry but managed to control costs for Coors & Nike. Frankly, I believe that the board/shareholders are reaping what they have sowed with stock currently trading at $28 - if I recall, there was a thread at the start of the year that expressed concern when Starwood had dropped from $75 to $43 during 2007.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Hey Calgary Gary!

Fellow Canadian eh?

Interesting info.... though, as some have pointed out, the SVO side seems to have a lot more issues then the Hotel side. I assume the CEO is in charge of both sides?

This brings an interesting thought. At this price, is Starwood at target for acquisition? Are they 'shoring' up some things in anticipation of being bought?

Starwood made a decision just over a year ago that customer service wasn't a priority. I found it incredible at the time when they hired a CEO who had 0 experience in the hospitality industry but managed to control costs for Coors & Nike. Frankly, I believe that the board/shareholders are reaping what they have sowed with stock currently trading at $28 - if I recall, there was a thread at the start of the year that expressed concern when Starwood had dropped from $75 to $43 during 2007.

 

[LisaRex]

This brings an interesting thought. At this price, is Starwood at target for acquisition? Are they 'shoring' up some things in anticipation of being bought?

I've speculated that for a few months, based on two main things:

a) Sales are way below projections
b) There's a lack of new developments, which is the lifeblood of timeshares. Given that it takes 2-3 years to get a resort built, there's nothing to sustain SVO in the near and mid-term.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

.. also..

.. perhaps try to squeeze those who you think have money.. ie, the ones trying to get up to 5* for more sales?

... I wonder how the sales people are being incented to stay if there isn't really too much to sell. Inventory seems to only exist in a few small pockets, plus the Vistana..

I've speculated that for a few months, based on two main things:

a) Sales are way below projections
b) There's a lack of new developments, which is the lifeblood of timeshares. Given that it takes 2-3 years to get a resort built, there's nothing to sustain SVO in the near and mid-term.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

What about Westin Riverfront I have been reading about.. isn't that new?

... just want to make sure we are being fair here...

I've speculated that for a few months, based on two main things:

a) Sales are way below projections
b) There's a lack of new developments, which is the lifeblood of timeshares. Given that it takes 2-3 years to get a resort built, there's nothing to sustain SVO in the near and mid-term.

 

[BLUE AYES]

When Lagunamar was first sold pre-build, no sales reps or customers were told of plans to sell weeks 51/52 as super premium. I purchased premium plus which one would think covered those weeks. When week 51/52 of 2007 rolled around and owners called to reserve 51/52 of 2008 every unit was alledgedly booked. In fact, not a single unit was reserved, Starwood had removed every unit from the market in hopes that they would get sold as event weeks. Here's the kicker at that time they hadn't sold a single event week.Kick in the ass #2 they (against all bylaws) moved week 7 into event week as well.
They did resolve some of these issues to my satisfaction but only after threatening a lawsuit and trying to get a class action certification.

 

[clsmit]

When Lagunamar was first sold pre-build, no sales reps or customers were told of plans to sell weeks 51/52 as super premium. I purchased premium plus which one would think covered those weeks. When week 51/52 of 2007 rolled around and owners called to reserve 51/52 of 2008 every unit was alledgedly booked. In fact, not a single unit was reserved, Starwood had removed every unit from the market in hopes that they would get sold as event weeks. Here's the kicker at that time they hadn't sold a single event week.Kick in the ass #2 they (against all bylaws) moved week 7 into event week as well.
They did resolve some of these issues to my satisfaction but only after threatening a lawsuit and trying to get a class action certification.

We also never heard of weeks 7/51/52 as super premium when we purchased. Nor did we hear of pure ocean view, as is listed when properties are listed on Westin's website to rent there. Our week is titled as "PlatinumPlus", but it's not any of these weeks!

 

[LisaRex]

What about Westin Riverfront... just want to make sure we are being fair here...

Well, okay, but one development isn't sufficient to sustain an entire organization, especially one that only has a few months of high-demand weeks.

All other new business are expansions. Los Cabos was announced and then....nothing. Aruba was announced and then....nothing. WKORV-NN was announced and then....nothing. Have they even broken ground on WK expansion? The Atlantis expansion?

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

This certainly is a good piece of info for this thread..

The pile gets deeper...

When Lagunamar was first sold pre-build, no sales reps or customers were told of plans to sell weeks 51/52 as super premium. I purchased premium plus which one would think covered those weeks. When week 51/52 of 2007 rolled around and owners called to reserve 51/52 of 2008 every unit was alledgedly booked. In fact, not a single unit was reserved, Starwood had removed every unit from the market in hopes that they would get sold as event weeks. Here's the kicker at that time they hadn't sold a single event week.Kick in the ass #2 they (against all bylaws) moved week 7 into event week as well.
They did resolve some of these issues to my satisfaction but only after threatening a lawsuit and trying to get a class action certification.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

OK thanks.. I just want to make sure that this thread is unbiased and fair to SVO..

I want the SVO folks who are reading this to know we all here are being fair..

Well, okay, but one development isn't sufficient to sustain an entire organization, especially one that only has a few months of high-demand weeks.

All other new business are expansions. Los Cabos was announced and then....nothing. Aruba was announced and then....nothing. WKORV-NN was announced and then....nothing. Have they even broken ground on WK expansion? The Atlantis expansion?

 

[Troopers]

Well, okay, but one development isn't sufficient to sustain an entire organization, especially one that only has a few months of high-demand weeks.

I agree.

All other new business are expansions. Los Cabos was announced and then....nothing. Aruba was announced and then....nothing. WKORV-NN was announced and then....nothing. Have they even broken ground on WK expansion? The Atlantis expansion?

Were these publicly announced or did Tuggers come across this info via goggle that was not intended for public knowledge?

 

[Troopers]

...In a US where the Economy is crumbling...don't you find it remarkable that SVO doesn't care more then ever about customer service.

IMHO, it's not that SVO doesn't care but SVO has had to find ways to reduce costs because of the crumbling economy. Almost every industry is suffering. How can SVO sustain or increase service levels if their revenues are decreasing? My guess is that every SVO operation impacts customer service levels. Something has to give perhaps you would have voted for something else to give.

 

[LisaRex]

Were these publicly announced or did Tuggers come across this info via goggle that was not intended for public knowledge?

1) Here is the Aruba announcement dated June 13, 2006
http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/june/0613-05t.htm

WHITE PLAINS, NY -- Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE:HOT) and Belfonti Capital Partners announce an agreement to re-flag Belfonti's newly-acquired 478-room Aruba Resort Spa & Casino as The Westin Aruba Resort & Spa. The property will raise the Westin flag in late 2006 upon completion of a renovation to further enhance the property's AAA Four Diamond rating. The hotel also features the 12,000 square-foot Casablanca Casino, one of the Caribbean's premier gaming destinations. Belfonti, which owns the entire property, will manage the casino while Westin will manage the hotel under a long-term agreement.

In addition, Starwood Vacation Ownership, a division of Starwood, plans to launch the first Westin-branded vacation ownership resort on Aruba. This vacation ownership resort will be located on land adjacent to the hotel and plans call for 154 two-bedroom villas. Sales are scheduled to commence by early 2007."

We found out the Aruba TS was being scrapped after a TUGger announced it here. Starwood confirmed it, but never put out any official communication to its members. They quietly removed it from the SVO public website and (I guess) hoped we wouldn't notice.

2) WKORV-NN announcement is still on MSC:
https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo/CMSContent/Sites/MSC/News/NewsItems/Newsitem8

It is supposed to open in fall 2011, which is 3 years away, though they haven't broken ground yet.

3) The Maui expansion, as well as the others are still included on SVO's public website:

http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/salesgallery/expansion.jsp

I know that the WSJ actually happened. But what about the others? Here's what they have to say about Westin Kierland on their website right now:

"Construction on the resort's final phase will be completed this year, with 54 two-bedroom lockoff villas. Opened in 2004, the resort will have a total of 158 villas upon completion."

Did they even start a final phase in 2008? If so, it's news to me.

4) Los Cabos. Here is a quote from an April 2007 press release:

http://www.resortdeveloper.com/rd/newsroom070403.jsp

“We are excited to extend our presence in Mexico and build another Westin Vacation Ownership resort adjacent to the renowned Westin Resort & Spa in Los Cabos,” said Sergio Rivera, president of real estate development, Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. “As Starwood is one of the oldest and most prominent hotel companies in the country, Mexico is an important market for us. A vacation ownership resort is a natural complement to The Westin Resort and offers guests the benefit of owning a piece of one of the world’s premier destinations.”

Los Cabos does not appear on StarwoodVacationOwnership.com. If they're not marketing it yet, then it's either off the table altogether or it's several years out. Who knows? They certainly didn't send out a press release giving an update. They just said....nothing.

***
See what I mean? They have all these grandiose plans and then they pull the plug on them for one reason or another. If they needed to pare back because the economy is in the toilet, then you'd think they'd at least mention a delay "due to rising construction costs and a faltering economy." Something. Anything. Throw us a bone, Starwood! Pretend that we matter! Let us know what's going on in the organization that we've invested a lot of money in.

I'm shouting to the wall.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

LisaRex.. this is just terrific info..

Thank you very much for digging this up!

1) Here is the Aruba announcement dated June 13, 2006
http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/june/0613-05t.htm

WHITE PLAINS, NY -- Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE:HOT) and Belfonti Capital Partners announce an agreement to re-flag Belfonti's newly-acquired 478-room Aruba Resort Spa & Casino as The Westin Aruba Resort & Spa. The property will raise the Westin flag in late 2006 upon completion of a renovation to further enhance the property's AAA Four Diamond rating. The hotel also features the 12,000 square-foot Casablanca Casino, one of the Caribbean's premier gaming destinations. Belfonti, which owns the entire property, will manage the casino while Westin will manage the hotel under a long-term agreement.

In addition, Starwood Vacation Ownership, a division of Starwood, plans to launch the first Westin-branded vacation ownership resort on Aruba. This vacation ownership resort will be located on land adjacent to the hotel and plans call for 154 two-bedroom villas. Sales are scheduled to commence by early 2007."

We found out the Aruba TS was being scrapped after a TUGger announced it here. Starwood confirmed it, but never put out any official communication to its members. They quietly removed it from the SVO public website and (I guess) hoped we wouldn't notice.

2) WKORV-NN announcement is still on MSC:
https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo/CMSContent/Sites/MSC/News/NewsItems/Newsitem8

It is supposed to open in fall 2011, which is 3 years away, though they haven't broken ground yet.

3) The Maui expansion, as well as the others are still included on SVO's public website:

http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/salesgallery/expansion.jsp

I know that the WSJ actually happened. But what about the others? Here's what they have to say about Westin Kierland on their website right now:

"Construction on the resort's final phase will be completed this year, with 54 two-bedroom lockoff villas. Opened in 2004, the resort will have a total of 158 villas upon completion."

Did they even start a final phase in 2008? If so, it's news to me.

4) Los Cabos. Here is a quote from an April 2007 press release:

http://www.resortdeveloper.com/rd/newsroom070403.jsp

“We are excited to extend our presence in Mexico and build another Westin Vacation Ownership resort adjacent to the renowned Westin Resort & Spa in Los Cabos,” said Sergio Rivera, president of real estate development, Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. “As Starwood is one of the oldest and most prominent hotel companies in the country, Mexico is an important market for us. A vacation ownership resort is a natural complement to The Westin Resort and offers guests the benefit of owning a piece of one of the world’s premier destinations.”

Los Cabos does not appear on StarwoodVacationOwnership.com. If they're not marketing it yet, then it's either off the table altogether or it's several years out. Who knows? They certainly didn't send out a press release giving an update. They just said....nothing.

***
See what I mean? They have all these grandiose plans and then they pull the plug on them for one reason or another. If they needed to pare back because the economy is in the toilet, then you'd think they'd at least mention a delay "due to rising construction costs and a faltering economy." Something. Anything. Throw us a bone, Starwood! Pretend that we matter! Let us know what's going on in the organization that we've invested a lot of money in.

I'm shouting to the wall.

 

[tlpnet]

1) Here is the Aruba announcement dated June 13, 2006
http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/june/0613-05t.htm

[Deleted]

We found out the Aruba TS was being scrapped after a TUGger announced it here. Starwood confirmed it, but never put out any official communication to its members. They quietly removed it from the SVO public website and (I guess) hoped we wouldn't notice.

I'm not sure what happened in Aruba. My guess would be that maybe the hotel in Aruba may not have done as well as expected. I can also say that when I was searching on II each morning for a Carribbean exchange, I would "select all" and then uncheck Aruba and DR because each of those two had about 3 pages of exchanges available and I didn't want to see the same availability every day. I know many folks here wanted an SVO resort in Aruba, and don't hate me, but possibly there are two many TS's in Aruba already. What's the real issue - lack of communication.

2) WKORV-NN announcement is still on MSC:
https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo/CMSContent/Sites/MSC/News/NewsItems/Newsitem8

It is supposed to open in fall 2011, which is 3 years away, though they haven't broken ground yet.

I am looking at WKORN-N over the top of my laptop. Since I've been here, they have drawn long PVC pipes through the trench and appear to be seeding and watering it. IMO, in a month, the ugly pit off my balcony will probably be covered in beautiful wavy grass, and construction will be on hold until the economy improves. I can tell you that the salespeople here (and I'm told that this is the biggest sales office - it is huge) think that sales are going to start soon, so who knows.

3) The Maui expansion, as well as the others are still included on SVO's public website:

http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/salesgallery/expansion.jsp

I know that the WSJ actually happened. But what about the others? Here's what they have to say about Westin Kierland on their website right now:

"Construction on the resort's final phase will be completed this year, with 54 two-bedroom lockoff villas. Opened in 2004, the resort will have a total of 158 villas upon completion."

Did they even start a final phase in 2008? If so, it's news to me.

I can't speak to Kierland because I neither own there nor have been there. I own up the road in Sedona. There are alot of WKV owners here - maybe an owner can speak to any word they have received of the expansion there - my guess - construction put on hold - lack of communication.

4) Los Cabos. Here is a quote from an April 2007 press release:

http://www.resortdeveloper.com/rd/newsroom070403.jsp

[Deleted]

Los Cabos does not appear on StarwoodVacationOwnership.com. If they're not marketing it yet, then it's either off the table altogether or it's several years out. Who knows? They certainly didn't send out a press release giving an update. They just said....nothing.

Regarding Cabo, SVO has this webpage on StarwoodVacationOwnership.com. It was updated September 2008, and in brief, it says that they have made progress with the legal tie-ups, but that there are some more agreements that must be in place before they can begin construction. This is the oddity in the bunch. September 2008 is actually pretty recent communication, although you didn't know it existed because you had to search for it. Come on - look at MSC - did you know that two weeks ago they added the ability to convert your week to SP's to the website. Anyone that can wade through the website and find it within 15 minutes wins a prize. International deals are a little different especially in Mexico - I wouldn' be entirely surprised if once the final hurdles are crossed on this one, they might actually start construction.

***
See what I mean? They have all these grandiose plans and then they pull the plug on them for one reason or another. If they needed to pare back because the economy is in the toilet, then you'd think they'd at least mention a delay "due to rising construction costs and a faltering economy." Something. Anything. Throw us a bone, Starwood! Pretend that we matter! Let us know what's going on in the organization that we've invested a lot of money in.

I'm shouting to the wall.

Here's my opinion, the economy sucks, and everyone has to pay more attention to money that they spend both on capital projects and on expenses. Although Sergio Rivera was a SVO co-president and was in charge of the real estate side of SVO (so he better than anyone at SVO knows the answers to your questions), I for one, have high hopes for his recent promotion to President. Co-presidencies can be really tough, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, changes at the top are usually made for a reason. Sergio comes from the timeshare world, so given some autonomy to run SVO, could effect positive change, both to the company, and hopefully to the owners.

Sergio, if you're reading this, we REALLY REALLY like communicaton. A monthly email newsletter would be nice (even if it's at the bottom of an advertisement for current promotions). We want to know of the exciting new "better ways to see the world" that are forthcoming, or if SVO has put all construction projects on hold pending improvments in the economy. We want to know that we as owners matter to you.

That's all for now. The sun is up, and I've had my coffee.

-tim

 

[oneohana]

What about the new one in the Palm Springs area?

 

[tlpnet]

What about the new one in the Palm Springs area?

I purchased there and watched the construction taking place before my eyes. My gut feeling is that Phase I will open on schedule. I've got week 52 reserved at WMH - I'll check out the construction progress and report back.

-tim

 

[LisaRex]

Here's my opinion, the economy sucks, and everyone has to pay more attention to money that they spend both on capital projects and on expenses.

Which begs the question: How does an organization that sells timeshares, and only sells timeshares, sustain itself when the economy is in the toilet and there are limited prospects for new revenue in the foreseeable future?

 

[clsmit]

Which begs the question: How does an organization that sells timeshares, and only sells timeshares, sustain itself when the economy is in the toilet and there are limited prospects for new revenue in the foreseeable future?

They have to break the sales into smaller and smaller buckets to get any sales at all -- more EOY sales, more 1BR sales, more silver season sales... And pushing harder to get those.

What concerns me more about the management is the lack of a large pipeline. We want properties to go to and they want properties to sell. I'm not seeing too many of these right now.

 

[vacationtime1]

Which begs the question: How does an organization that sells timeshares, and only sells timeshares, sustain itself when the economy is in the toilet and there are limited prospects for new revenue in the foreseeable future?

Exercise ROFR and re-sell at a profit.

Some resale prices on Starwood properties are so low that Starwood's acquisition cost would be far lower than building new. And some of those bargain resale prices are competing directly with the few, new developments Starwood does have in progress (eg. SBP Phase I competes with SBP Palmetto; Mission Hills competes with Desert Willows).

How can Starwood allow an SBP on resale to transfer for $2,500 when they are selling something new next door for about ten times as much (or at least trying to sell something new next door for ten times as much)?

I understand that it is hard to sell anything right now, but it is even harder if the same thing can be bought for 10% - 25% of the developer price rather than the historic 50% - 60%.

 

[Troopers]

See what I mean? They have all these grandiose plans and then they pull the plug on them for one reason or another. If they needed to pare back because the economy is in the toilet, then you'd think they'd at least mention a delay "due to rising construction costs and a faltering economy." Something. Anything. Throw us a bone, Starwood! Pretend that we matter! Let us know what's going on in the organization that we've invested a lot of money in.

I'm shouting to the wall.

Thanks LisaRex. I get where you're coming from.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Complaints either way. Maybe they felt that there would be less of a backlash if they kept their mouths shut.

 

[Troopers]

Which begs the question: How does an organization that sells timeshares, and only sells timeshares, sustain itself when the economy is in the toilet and there are limited prospects for new revenue in the foreseeable future?

Reduce costs.

 

[tlpnet]

Which begs the question: How does an organization that sells timeshares, and only sells timeshares, sustain itself when the economy is in the toilet and there are limited prospects for new revenue in the foreseeable future?

Exercise ROFR and re-sell at a profit.

Some resale prices on Starwood properties are so low that Starwood's acquisition cost would be far lower than building new. And some of those bargain resale prices are competing directly with the few, new developments Starwood does have in progress (eg. SBP Phase I competes with SBP Palmetto; Mission Hills competes with Desert Willows).

How can Starwood allow an SBP on resale to transfer for $2,500 when they are selling something new next door for about ten times as much (or at least trying to sell something new next door for ten times as much)?

I understand that it is hard to sell anything right now, but it is even harder if the same thing can be bought for 10% - 25% of the developer price rather than the historic 50% - 60%.

I totally agree. ROFR is a positive first step, and I absolutely would like to see that used for the good of Starwood and it's owners.

Oddly enough, WDW and WMH although less than 10 miles apart, seem like unrelated resorts to me. We'll see what happens when it opens, but the location and artist renderings are magnificent. Hopefully, Starwood is out there prospecting new locations that they can pick up for a deal while the economy is bad because you are right, without new resorts (or excising ROFR to gain inventory), they don't really have big revenue opportunities (or maybe the management revenue they collect from the resorts is sufficient for their existence).

As for it being hard to sell, maybe a lot of people are saying no, but when I was doing my owner's update, the sales office here in Maui was like a summer day at Disneyland with people doing sales tours.

-tim