Svacationman just disappeared off ebay!!

[Carolinian]

You might also want to complain to the State Real Estate Commission, which in most states is the agency with regulatory authority over timeshare sales and to the State Bar over the alleged ''attorney review''.

John I do appreciate the advise that I have been given but I really do believe that we are not looking at a series of unfortunate mistakes and as the amount involved is not substantial, I am willing to do what is necessary to first have the contract honoured but more importantly to teach both of the companies involved a strong lesson for future reference. The reasons I believe that this is not an unfortunate mistake:

• 
  Attorney review was advertised but obviously could not have been provided

• 
  Resorts Access Network has participated in over 200 transactions in the Orange County market, processing a deed for Orlando in St. Lucie County had to be a huge red flag

• 
  Timeshare Freedom Inc. indicated that there were no comparable or better properties available when in fact there were several

• 
  The ebay listing was allowed to stand at a time when R.A.N. knew we would not be returning the deed.

I believe in the end that I will be successful not just because unlike what some have suggested, there was a contract. Although I will likely be placing a complaint about the business practices of TF with Georgia and the failure of Tammy to perform her due diligence as a NP (usually wouldn't have been an issue but Tammy received the contract) will be noted with White County; the real leverage I have is the relisting of the timeshare where I believe that involves a $10,000 fine with the State of Florida. Some might consider this fighting windmills, I think of it as entertainment and justice.

 

[ttt]

His inventory comes from Time No More, Inc.

 

[olliemom]

thanks

Thanks Steve and Bill - Thankfully I haven't paid yet. However, he has a $195 cancellation fee. And, yes, I was double-thinking the silver membership after taking a look at the RVC calendar matrix.

At this point, I think I will pay the $195 just to get out of this deal, and wait to see if a Gold membership comes up eventually at a good price. What is the going rate for one? An estimate...

Also, how would you compare worldmark and RVC? I know that I keep hearing RVC is complicated, but it doesn't seem that complicated once you know your gem level and have a calendar matrix... am I missing something?

Patty

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Thanks Steve and Bill - Thankfully I haven't paid yet. However, he has a $195 cancellation fee. And, yes, I was double-thinking the silver membership after taking a look at the RVC calendar matrix.

At this point, I think I will pay the $195 just to get out of this deal, and wait to see if a Gold membership comes up eventually at a good price. What is the going rate for one? An estimate...

Also, how would you compare worldmark and RVC? I know that I keep hearing RVC is complicated, but it doesn't seem that complicated once you know your gem level and have a calendar matrix... am I missing something?

Patty

I advise people to not purchase a Raintree membership at any level below the platinum level. When we purchased I debated gold or platinum and decided platinum. After owning I asked myself what I was thinking even considering gold. I really should have been debating platinum vs sapphire.

 

[barndweller]

Cancelation fee????What's with that?

Olliemom
E-bay timeshare auctions are not binding agreements. Your winning bid is only deemed an interest to purchase or something to that effect. The guys with all the legal expertise here please step in. I wouldn't give this guy the time of day, much less $195. Just say you have changed your mind after doing your research and have decided not to go through with your non- binding bid. The worst that can happen is a negative feedback. And you can place an explaination for all to see. A negative feedback for the seller will be a bigger deal & he doesn't want that if he can avoid it. Don't pay the fee.

 

[calgarygary]

Olliemom, obviously I am going to suggest that you stay far away from ttimeshareman and/or svacationman. You have done your research, the red flags are flying, and should he post a negative on ebay you could always counter with a negative for his failure to provide proof of ownership. I wish I had taken that step.

ttt, I am a newbie to timeshares and not sure what you meant when you said that he gets his inventory from Time No More Inc.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Time No More, Inc., is another one of the postcard companies. They send postcards informing timeshare owners of meetings at nearby hotels, where they tell you all of the negatives to timeshare ownership, such as ongoing maintenance fees, assessments and RCI and II membership fees, then they are happy to take your timeshare off your hands, if you pay $3,495 or 7 years of maintenance fees in advance, whichever is less. Then they resell the weeks on ebay through various resellers.

My conscience will not allow me to buy anymore timeshares from these guys. The problem is, they are hard to spot because there are so many of them on ebay now.

 

[calgarygary]

How does Time No More Inc transfer the ownership of timeshares to Resorts Access Network without a paper trail? I am proceeding with legal action and want to have as much background info. as possible.

I'm editing this post to mention that with a little research, did come up with the connection and how they work it. Time No More Inc, indicates in their marketing material that they are not a listing company - which they are not. Their listings are transferred to RAN and RAN uses Timeshare Freedom, Inc for escrow. 3 companies, with Sarah Turner being an officer of all 3!

 

[Carolinian]

Another place to complain on these sleaze operations is the state Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division.

 

[JamminJoe]

I am all worried now. I am closing on a timeshare I bought in January from this person, at the time he had many transactions completed (hundreds)and a 98.5 rating. I have also read here on Tug that some have bought from him without any problems. How in fact do I find out if the deal is really going through or if I have been scammed. I have paid by credit card $1,700.00 to be held in escrow by Timeshare Freedom, Inc. Should I be concerned? What can I do to ensure this is a legitimate sale?

 

[calgarygary]

I would request a copy of the deed be faxed to you so that you may verify information. If they are unable to do that, if the timeshare you purchased is in the U.S., google the county and registry and you should find the online site for viewing county records. Search in the county records for Resorts Access Network and you should be able to find the timeshare that you have purchased. If it is not what you have purchased, contact your credit card immediately.

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Joe,

I have done several transactions with them without any issues.

While I empathize with Gary, these guys typically have decent reviews on TUG.

John

 

[JamminJoe]

Thanks Gary. They did reserve this years week which I paid for as part of the sale and I am going there Friday. I have called to confirm the reservation which is under the sellers name and my name as well, the sellers name is NOT Patel. I was told the deed has been sent out for recording and they are awaiting it back at which time they will forward the original to me and a copy to the Resort. So, if a look in the records should it be under my name or the sellers name I am looking for? My guess is it will be under the sellers name until I receive the deed back, in anycase I will look for both. Thanks for the suggestion.

John, thanks for the input. I bid on the item based on previous sellers experience and he did have a high rating so I was a bit suprised by the chatter going on here. I was feeing pretty confident until I started reading some of these posts, thanks for the reassurance.

 

[calgarygary]

Joe, didn't mean to scare you but rather to do your homework, which you have done. Although I believe that the sellers (ttimeshareman and svacationman are one and the same) have generally good ebay ratings, they have sufficient, legitimate complaints to make buyers very concerned.

John, I am glad that you and others have experienced good dealings with them but my research has now indicated that Timeshare Freedom Inc is in contravention of the law in Florida. Under the Florida Vacation Plan and Timesharing Act, an escrow agent must be independant and as described by the act:

(20) "Independent," for purposes of determining eligibility of escrow agents and trustees pursuant to s. 721.03(7), means that: (a) The escrow agent or trustee is not a relative, as described in s. 112.3135(1)(d), or an employee of the developer, seller, or managing entity, or of any officer, director, affiliate, or subsidiary thereof.

As Sarah Turner is an officer of Time No More, Inc., the sole officer of Timeshare Freedom Inc, and an officer of Resorts Access Network, the lack of independance is obvious.

Some may consider this a minor point, but it is apparent that a number of conflicts can arise and in some cases, do.

 

[Carolinian]

The varying state laws is one reason I have always been leary of these all state ''one size fits all'' firms.

North Carolina, for example, has a very broad definition of ''developer'' which would almost certainly encompass such eBay sellers, but I doubt any of them have registered as developers with the North Carolina Real Estate Commission, even though the NCREC has been known to go after out of state ''developers'' who are selling North Carolina timeshares.

There are also potential unauthorized practice of law problems for their layman-drafted deeds.

Joe, didn't mean to scare you but rather to do your homework, which you have done. Although I believe that the sellers (ttimeshareman and svacationman are one and the same) have generally good ebay ratings, they have sufficient, legitimate complaints to make buyers very concerned.

John, I am glad that you and others have experienced good dealings with them but my research has now indicated that Timeshare Freedom Inc is in contravention of the law in Florida. Under the Florida Vacation Plan and Timesharing Act, an escrow agent must be independant and as described by the act:
As Sarah Turner is an officer of Time No More, Inc., the sole officer of Timeshare Freedom Inc, and an officer of Resorts Access Network, the lack of independance is obvious.

Some may consider this a minor point, but it is apparent that a number of conflicts can arise and in some cases, do.

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Gary,

If you read that passage literally, it is referring to escrow agents used by the developer of a Florida timeshare. A reseller, who first deeds everything into his own name is neither a broker or developer. He is acting as am unregulated principal (individual). And individuals always have the right to name the escrow agent they desire, regardless of relation. Especially if disclosed up front.

However, it is still the unwavering responsibility of the escrow agent to be a fiduciary to both sides of the transaction and protect the buyers interests. If that is not done, it is almost always a criminal offense, more than just a civil issue. That applies to the entire world of escrow accounts, not just those used in timeshares.

However, if my interpretation is incorrect, you should be able to shut down 2/3 of the Ebay sellers. That should help resale prices improve a bit.

To give you new ammo, most of the Ebay escrow agents release the funds to the seller as soon as the transfer paperwork is put in the mailbox to the resort.

I consider that improper. In my opinion, the escrow funds should not be released until the buyer has been acknowledged by owner at the new resort and thier financial account established with a zero balance (unless something else was agreed to in the sales contract). Because until that point, the buyer still has financial risk in the deal and that is the definition of what escrow is supposed to protect.

That's how I run my escrow account for my clients. But I'm fully independent.

John

PS. Some states, particularly NC, try to label resellers, even principals as developers. The only case I know of where that succeeded (or was even pursued) was against a company that bought out many dozen units from a single NC HOA to resell. That angle is a dry well IMHO.

 

[Carolinian]

John -

Actually, it is more than one. Indeed, one entity that the NC Real Estate Commission threatened to rule was a ''developer'' was RCI Points until RCI Points made the changes in its program that the commission demanded.

The North Carolina General Statutes (NCGS 93A-41(2)) defines ''Developer'' as follows:

''Developer'' means any person or entity which creates a time share or a time share project or program, purchases a time share for purpose of resale, or is engaged in the business of selling its own time shares and shall include any person or entity who controls, is controlled by, or is in common control with the developer which is engaged in creating or selling time shares for the developer, but a person who purchases a time share for his or her occupancy, use and enjoyment shall not be deemed a developer''

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Carolinian,

My read from researching the web is the NC is under pressure from the US Department of Justice to enter into a consent decree concerning many sections of it's "brokerage" and "practice of law" codes as too reaching. Even the NC Bar admitted about 2 months back that things need to be re-written.

Doubt they are doing any enforcement of this until they are out from the Fed's ire.

John

PS. This issue also specifically addressed the ability of lay persons to draft deeds being OK.

 

[calgarygary]

John, I do understand that the provision is for a developer but under the Florida Statutes:

"(d) The term "developer" does not include:

1. An owner of a timeshare interest who has acquired the timeshare interest for his or her own use and occupancy and who later offers it for resale; provided that a rebuttable presumption shall exist that an owner who has acquired more than seven timeshare interests did not acquire them for his or her own use and occupancy; "

If I have understood this paragraph correctly, then Resorts Access Network, which has been involved in 278 transactions in Orange County alone, is most definitely a developer under Florida Statute.

 

[Carolinian]

It looks like Florida takes something of the same approach as North Carolina.
I wonder how many other states do. The Florida statutes are the model for the timeshare statutes of many states.

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Gary,

It would be very interesting to see how traditional realtor's are treated under this. In many states, realtors maintain escrow accounts for customer deposits. and many Florida realtors sell timeshares. Some focus on it like GMAC/International Properties as one example. But many just do it as another offering. GMAC/IP does inhouse escrow for example, not even with a different corporate shell. They are huge and one of many. Wonder what the rest do.

If your interpretation is correct, many dozens (or hundreds) of florida realtors are "developers". I suggest you dig a little in the FL real estate brokerage laws and regulations as this doesn't sound right.

Pretty much forget NC as an example to follow, take a read of some recent NC Bar Association newsletters and you'll see for yourself what a mess they are in with the US Department of Justice over their constitutional questionable regulations and attempts to "unfairly" close the NC market to competition.

Keep digging, never know....

You will probably also need to recruit a Florida state or county prosecutor to your cause, as an individual, even one "damaged" by such a situation, probably does not have legal standing outside of seeking damages in their particular situation. The government is typically the only entity with legal standing to pursue "broad" administrative law violations.

Either way, interesting stuff...

John

 

[Carolinian]

John -

You are taking a narrow issue and trying to apply it to others. The NC Bar Association is NOT a regulatory body, BTW. The NC State Bar is the regulatory body. But the issues we are talking here are NOT based on rules or regulations of any agency. They are based on state law duly adopted by the legislature. And the extremely sloppy work of many of these out of state timeshare closing companies using laymen drafting defective deeds shows a strong need for such consumer protection. While drafting deeds is not all that complicated, these people seem to screw up way too many of them.

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Carolinian,

I agree that many of the work products of these large closing companies can have mistakes, I also agree that they are often not experts. Frankly, the average clerical which many companies have doing the closings has no legal education or experience and 250 folders sitting on their desk to be closed. Thus the delays too.

But I don't like the parochial approach NC has taken to attempt to remedy the situation.

The more difficult to achieve but "better" situation for the protection of the consumer is a regulated, open, competative market. Go after and penalize the incompetents out there, while permitting competent players free access to the markets. This reduces consumer cost and increases freedom of choice.

Every State's Bar is closely connected with and influenced by the desires of the State Bar Association. Since the State Bar rarely publishes discussion papers, only regulations, the Bar Association is a very telling indicator of the concensus thought in that jurisdiction IMHO.

But time tells all, we'll see what changes actualy take place.

John

 

[bnoble]

On a related note: it looks like svacationman also does all of his/her own closings---without even the shell of a "separate" company to handle escrow. Is it just me, or does that seem like just asking for more trouble than a bargain timeshare might be worth?

 

[calgarygary]

Maybe they are acknowledging the way it really is on ebay but it would be interesting to attend a Time No More meeting to see if they continue to claim that they do not sell timeshares. Who knows if ttimeshareman and svacationman are really Dharmesh Patel. What I do know at this point, is Resorts Access Network (various ebay identities), Timeshare Freedom Inc. (the escrow part of the business), and Time No More Inc. are all controlled by the same individual but it is not Sarah Turner as she is an employee also. I have made some headway hopefully in clearing up my problem (as described in the what a quagmire thread) and will keep the board posted whether Mr. Darren Gibson, the owner of these companies, can provide a resolution.

Funny how my last letter to Tammy quickly moved through the chain of command to the real decision maker.