Sticky - Mexican Timeshare Presentation Boot Camp

[Vera V Christopher]

Why does anyone suppose that the BBB has given the Grupo Mayan the lowest rating?


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Wonder why these Grupo Mayan people have received such a low rating from the BBB in the US?!

Anyone any suggestions?

THE TITLE HAS "BBS" INSTEAD OF "BBB", [corrected] AN REPUTABLE GOVERNMENT AGENCY TOO.

 

[DeniseM]

Vera - I am confused: If you are negotiating a settlement with Grupo Mayan, why are you still posting? Don't you want to get your money back?

Also - remember not to start new threads (topics.) If you have more to add, post it in THIS thread, by going to the last post and clicking on "post reply."

In other words - do NOT use the "new thread"button.

 

[mikenk]

Vera,

It is very simple. Grupo Mayan has bad ratings because:
- They sell to a huge amount of people
- People don't like high pressure sales, particularly when not expecting it and not prepared
- People don't like to be told things that don't get written into the contract.
- Because GM is very effective at getting people signed up who then are mad that they did so and want out.

I have no clue as to what your particular issues are but I would guess that you have burned the bridges with GM contract services for any resolution.

Mike

 

[Vera V Christopher]

Mayan Has Been Renamed By Its Unhappy Customers As The "lyin", For Good Reason!!!

Vera - I am confused: If you are negotiating a settlement with Grupo Mayan, why are you still posting? Don't you want to get your money back?

Also - remember not to start new threads (topics.) If you have more to add, post it in THIS thread, by going to the last post and clicking on "post reply."

In other words - do NOT use the "new thread"button.

There is nothing to negotiate with the Mayan. That was all done last year and the year before that! And a lawyer acting as escrow tried, and no satisfaction has been achieved. They simply have not kept their word, but gone back on it......!

You speak as though they were reasonable people, well they are not. They are proud and arrogant and not used to doing things the honest way and straightforward way. They have asked for my bank details and they have them all. It is a matter of putting their money where their mouth is and returning my money, that is all, in full, then I can "pull the plug out", send back their settlement contract all duly signed, sealed and delivered. Otherwise how can I send back a settlement contract when they have not settled yet! And I have no intention of receiving only half of my money back which was what they called for last Saturday by phone over the week end to try and achieve. They are clearly "ruffled" to do that, as officially their offices are not working at the week end. That is only official though. As usual I was spoken at and not to, the lady just rattled off a ready made speech then immediately went on the websites to say that I have agreed and then not cooperated with them. This is something I am getting used to.....it is nothing new. I told them that as they claim to be "transparent" and are "not playing games" that to avoid misunderstanding they can keep to our communications in writing. But they have not kept to that.

I have bent over backwards to reach a settlement, but to get only half the money, send back the "settlement" when the matter has not been settled is ludicrous! They say that they need the settlement signed before they can pay the rest of the money to me. Well, I have no assurance that this will happen, and I am not going to expose myself a third time to this deception. They claim that they have no assurance that I shall send back the settlement once they pay in full. It defies logical thinking to think that way, as the matter will have been "settled" when they pay what is owed and there would be no logical reason for me to spend my precious time and energy writing posts etc. once the money is in my bank account. But they are interested only in themselves it seems and how they can keep me "over a barrel" as they say here in the UK. Well that time is gone forever, there are not more barrels over which I shall be kept! If they want to have a settlement they must settle the matter by returning the money owed to me. And for a multi million company that they are it seems strange that they should be hanging so tightly on to four thousand and seventy five measly dollars, not even having been charged interest on nearly three years of keeping this money in their bank!!!! It is an insignificant amount of money for such a large enterprise but pride has gotten in the way and we all know what that is followed by.....the fall!

THERE IS NOTHING CONFUSING ABOUT THIS MATTER UNLESS YOU WANT TO MAKE IT SO DELIBERATELY!!!

 

[Vera V Christopher]

deleted

Post deleted--complaints about moderators decisions should be addressed by private message

 

[Vera V Christopher]

deleted

deleted--see same explanation in post above

 

[Vera V Christopher]

You Are "skirting The Issue" Here, Mike. Dishonesty Is The Main Reason! Cheating!

Vera,

It is very simple. Grupo Mayan has bad ratings because:
- They sell to a huge amount of people
- People don't like high pressure sales, particularly when not expecting it and not prepared
- People don't like to be told things that don't get written into the contract.
- Because GM is very effective at getting people signed up who then are mad that they did so and want out.

I have no clue as to what your particular issues are but I would guess that you have burned the bridges with GM contract services for any resolution.

Mike

Having studied quite a few websites now about the Grupo Mayan it is the dishonesty that that people are complaining about more than anything. They have been deceived, and many are very upset about it. Naturally so. They have been lied to....plain and simple! People react when the have been deceived, when the company has misrepresented itself and called itself a "cheap trip" travel agents, then a "hotel promotion" company, and finally "vacation!" something but never "timeshare"!!! This is where it's at. I speak form EXPERIENCE NOT FROM HERESAY. That is why I do believe what I read about the other people's experiences concerning them for the most part, as I know what they are like..........and so does the BBB and so do the Mexican Authorities!...........but so far nothing has been done to prevent all this deception, misrepresentation, and extortion!!!! The Law is not effective in Mexico. It is of no use to anybody on paper only! I read about so many trying to rescind within the five day period, which is a terribly short length of time, and even so the money is not returned to to them!!!

SKIRTING AROUND THE ISSUE IS NOT BEING HELPFUL TO THE TUG MEMBERS.

 

[mikenk]

A request / question for moderators:

- Since this boot camp thread was intended to help people learn how to deal with timeshare presentations, and it has been hijacked to actually show the opposite, is there anyway to restore it to being meaningful?

- By allowing the continual repetitive rants from Vera whose singular stated goal is to extract money from GM, is there a point of complicity that TUG really wants no part of? In reality, only Vera and Grupo Mayan really know the story of this particular situation; personally, I believe there is way more to it than meets the eye. I am not sure TUG should be appearing to take sides by being her negotiation arm.

- It would also seem to me that those who want to make sure the Grupo Mayan sales tactics are exposed (as if they aren't already) would also want these Vera rants stopped. Her ramblings do not make a good spokesperson for that cause.

Mike

 

[K&PFitz]

If I'm reading this right, GM wants a signed agreement and Vera wants a check, but neither wants to act first. Could both parties deposit the items with a third party escrow agent, an attorney for example, and put this to rest? It seems simple to me.

 

[DeniseM]

How can you put all these complaints under "Bootcamp". What bootcamp, put them under the "Mayan" and be straightforward.

Vera - Please read this carefully:

1) It is TUG policy to put posts on the same topic in the same thread. It's a logical way to organize info. I has nothing to do with you personally, or Grupo Mayan - it is simply an organizational tool.

2) I understand that you are trying to blast Grupo Mayan into submission with your posts, but remember that TUG is not your private platform for your campaign, and you have to cooperate with the forum rules.

3) You are not making any friends here by criticizing others for not jumping on your band wagon.

Have you considered creating your own webpage where you can post anything you want? You can do it for free. I use www.webs.com and like it a lot. Just sign up for the free version and you can post away.

 

[california-bighorn]

Post #104 Above

Vera, when reading your comments in the above (#104) I thought your comments were pretty much to the point and you presented your position well without the non-constructive comments of previous posts. I think you will be more likely in obtaining your final goal of a refund by proceeding in a manner like this. Best of luck!!!

 

[Passepartout]

Maybe I'm just thinking out loud- or not, but I agree with Mike. Enough already. First one non-member poster ranting on one thing, then ironically another non-member with yet another axe to grind.

Vera and her predecessor, Ms.13, were allowed their soapbox to expound upon for way too long.

I sympathize with their cause, but in both cases, it's personal and while cautionary at first, declined into blame of others (TUG's paying MEMBERS and Mods) for not being helpful to the cause.

While I would be hesitant to restrict anyone from posting, at some point it needs to be recognized that continuing to be a platform actually hurts the cause the posters are trying to affect.

Please, Vera, follow Denise's suggestion of opening your own website, or blog spot and rant to your heart's content. I wish you well, and truly hope you and Grupo Mayan can come to some agreement.

That G.M. has aggressive sales tactics is, and has been known to TUGgers for some time. We're sorry that you didn't know that before your paths crossed. Both you and G.M. would have been better served.

Now go and pursue your 'justice' privately and on your own.

Jim Ricks

 

[Vera V Christopher]

That Has Already Been Done But To No Avail. Just Before Xmas Mayan "lyin" Pulled Out

If I'm reading this right, GM wants a signed agreement and Vera wants a check, but neither wants to act first. Could both parties deposit the items with a third party escrow agent, an attorney for example, and put this to rest? It seems simple to me.

Mayan are not interested, or so it would seem, to do anything by the book. And why should they since they have got away with so much, non refund of depoist of so many people within the five day cooling off period etc.

You are calling my posts "rants" but they are factual accounts. And really what can I call some comments I see here "apologies for the Mayan"? It works both ways, you know!

No stone has been left unturned. And no the whole story is out. What more do you want to be "hidden" within all of this, by now it would be out, we are talking of three years, not three weeks!

HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF....HAVE DONE EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK AND HAVE MET WITH OPPOSITION ALL THE WAY FOR THE RIGHT, NOT FOR THE WRONG. AND WHAT IS MOST TRUE IN ALL OF THIS I AM ONE OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER IN THE SAME BOAT.

You would do better to read all my posts to know the facts instead of speculating online.

 

[DeniseM]

You are calling my posts "rants" but they are factual accounts.

You would do better to read all my posts to know the facts instead of speculating online.

Vera - K&PFitz did NOT call your posts rants, and they made a very good suggestion.

You need to tone it down and keep it impersonal.

 

[Vera V Christopher]

Thank You For The Constructive Comments And Praise For Being Concise And To The Point

Vera, when reading your comments in the above (#104) I thought your comments were pretty much to the point and you presented your position well without the non-constructive comments of previous posts. I think you will be more likely in obtaining your final goal of a refund by proceeding in a manner like this. Best of luck!!!

Thank you for the positive feedback. I very much appreciate it. I am trying to put forward the point that all avenues to reaching an agreement with the Mayan have been exhausted so far and have failed. It is not a question of being difficult on my part. I showed good will last Autumn when I took off all the posts of the past as I genuinely believe that that was their condition in returning the money that they owe to me. And it is not just a question of money but principle. I was honest in that I did as they asked, and then got an escrow for their second demand i.e. the signing of a "settlement" contract stating that I shall never say anything negative about them again.

Well, if I were in their position I would have settled with someone who did as I asked, showed good will and was only asking for what was rightfully hers. The contract is cancelled. So now they are creating new difficulties to add insult to injury, as they say, just aggravating the situation not to pay out. My lawyer thinks that they never intended to pay. What they actually write down and what they do are two different things. They are very unpredictable, and disrespective of any norms in dealings. I have never come across all this before for a large "company". It is too dishonest.

 

[Vera V Christopher]

You Seem To Be Unduly Nervous About The Exposure Of The Mayan

A request / question for moderators:

- Since this boot camp thread was intended to help people learn how to deal with timeshare presentations, and it has been hijacked to actually show the opposite, is there anyway to restore it to being meaningful?

- By allowing the continual repetitive rants from Vera whose singular stated goal is to extract money from GM, is there a point of complicity that TUG really wants no part of? In reality, only Vera and Grupo Mayan really know the story of this particular situation; personally, I believe there is way more to it than meets the eye. I am not sure TUG should be appearing to take sides by being her negotiation arm.

- It would also seem to me that those who want to make sure the Grupo Mayan sales tactics are exposed (as if they aren't already) would also want these Vera rants stopped. Her ramblings do not make a good spokesperson for that cause.

Mike

Interesting how on the one hand you are saying that you agree that "sales tactics" are OK to be exposed but you have decided that my "goal is to extract money from GM" like a sort of blackmail and are saying that YOU KNOW (I wonder where from) THAT THERE IS A LOT MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE IN THIS MATTER. So what are the Mayan trying to do in your opinion? You seem to be repeating the words of the Mayan themselves regarding the "extraction of money" making it sound like I want something which I have not paid to them or to the escrow to make certain that they get their signed settlement and I my deposit and payments back. I am asking for what belongs to me, the deposit and the payments to date....it has been gained through misrepresentation from start to finish before we even (my companion and I) stepped foot in the Mayan Palace! I was never told that it is timeshare as mentioned before....so I do not see how you are defending the Mayan this much as an "innocent party". It makes no sense to me that you should be speaking of instructing people to deal with presentations! This sounds very hollow to me since you have made these statements. It really does. There is a lot to you that is not meeting the eye by what you are saying and implying.

Will you care to inform the readers what YOU think is happening here? We are allowed to speculate by what I see is happening on the website anyway!

 

[mikenk]

I have no clue and have no interest in speculation; I'm just tired of it all.

One thing I have learned over the years if someone tells you something that impacts their personal finances, take it with a huge grain of salt - that includes timeshare people, used car salesman, in fact any sales people, relatives, and even people on forums.

Mike

 

[pjrose]

Denise,

The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.

Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???

However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico? The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?

PJ

 

[Tropical lady]

good suggestion....

Pjrose made an excellent point.
The presentation thread is applicable to all timeshares in all locations. I agree that the titles should be changed to reflect a thread on "how to prepare" and another thread for "problems after" and not be company, region, country specific except perhaps in the first posting.
The thread for "the problems after" might request the poster to "outline" the problem so that possible solutions could be offered point for point and the whole purpose would be more contructive and helpful. Once the problem is described, no need to repeat unless there is a question or clarification. Maybe a few guidelines would discourage the continuous postings which we have experienced here. The right to an opinion is important, but the forum and others' credibility seem to be in question by the poster. A moderator should not have to justify a comment or spend large amounts of time moderating improper posts.

 

[easyrider]

Vera's posts are meant to get the attention of Grupo Mayan and to educate those who don't know about Grupo Mayan's sales tactics. Knowing what she knows now she probably wouldn't fall for it again.

"Providing the TRUTH about timeshares to owners for 17 years"

http://tug2.net/tuginfo.html

Do you really think she is just making up the entire story when there are thousands of others who have a similar experience with this same company ?
http://www.mycollector.com/mayanclassactionpaisola.pdf


I would believe Vera over Grupo Mayan any day of the week.

This has nothing to do with your pleasant holiday at a Grupo Mayan property but the money that was not rightfully returned. Maybe it is because she is a woman so they think they can appease her with offering half her money back. From my experience "Hell has no furry as a woman scorned" so Grupo gets what they get.

 

[pjrose]

Easy,

I don't doubt the credibility. Certainly people should use TUG to post problems with Timeshares and to ask for help. In this case the problems have been posted - and posted - and posted - and posted - and we have offered suggestions.

The repetition is not constructive and is annoying. Also, combining threads, and perhaps eventually having to delete all the posts if/when a solution is reached, makes a lot of work for our volunteer moderators.

As pointed out way above, TUG is not someone's personal forum for their fight/vendetta/rant about something.

:deadhorse:

 

[CatLovers]

I get where Ms. Christopher is coming from!

Folks, to be fair to Vera V Christopher, she was attacked by a few posters on this forum pretty much right after her first post. Her version of the events, as well as her credibility and her intelligence were questioned. True, she was not as eloquent as some others on this board, but it was no reason to demean and belittle her, particularly given that this is not the first time we have heard this sort of complaint about Grupo Mayan.

Gosh darn it, I myself had no idea what a firestorm I was wandering into when in January I posted what I thought was a "review" of my very negative experience at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138295). And my negative experience was not just with their sales process; unfortunately it was also with their customer service and amenities which some vocal TUGgers absolutely rave about! As a timesharer for over 10 years, and a long-time TUGger, I have contributed many reviews and posts here and participated in some great respectful dialogues, so I was more than a little taken aback by the venom and some of the "attacking" posts that followed my review. I was called foolish, a ranter, absurd and childish, implied that I wouldn't know what a high-class resort was, and my integrity and credibility were questioned. I was particularly surprised because I have "no skin" in the game -- I did not buy from Grupo Mayan, I will likely never stay at one of their resorts again -- so my only reason to review the resort was to provide a description of MY experience, and hopefully help others avoid having the same negative experience that we did. Good thing I have such a thick skin (and I am at a point in my life where comments by a handful of strangers on a bulletin board do not bother me one iota )! Since then, I have followed this whole Grupo Mayan saga closely, even going as far as to blog about them on my leadership practices blog. I have also observed that there are about six or seven TUGgers who just "love" the Grupo Mayan resorts and I can understand and respect that. But I have found that they also can be vocal, and sometimes, quite disrespectful to those whose experiences do not mirror theirs.

But back to the topic, I can understand why a newbie such as Ms. Christopher who already clearly feels wronged by the company, would react defensively, and in her case, by posting over and over again (and lashing out at others). I suspect that the moderators understand some of her anguish and that's why so many people have also tried to offer her unbiased and non-judgmental advice. So perhaps we could try to ease up on her a little bit ... (Btw, I am not suggesting that she be allowed to break any BB rules)

I think this thread that refers specifically to timeshare presentations in Mexico is VERY APPROPRIATE because these are far more "high pressure" than others in any other region of the world. And I think the reason Grupo Mayan is getting so much "air time" is because at least in this arena, they win the prize! I have attended many timeshare presentations before (including a couple in Mexico), but I have never felt the need to describe them as the "experience from hell" until this one.

 

[Tropical lady]

whoa easyrider.....

Unless you are referring to someone else's post, I never said anything about the credibility of her posts. In fact no one did. Incredible....yes! I did say in my last post here that the poster has questioned the moderator, taken much of the moderator's time and alluded to the credibility of TUG with statements that some web sites are getting $'s from Mexican resorts.
The forum is not an appropriate place for a personal vendetta. If the situation had been posted clearly and concisely with rational thought and no comments made about being drugged, a chorus of reps singing to her, but on the other hand the toilets were impressive, it could have achieved the results she wanted. But all this has had the opposite effect IMHO.
Since I cannot think of another constructive response that anyone could give to her.....no response may end the situation.

 

[John Cummings]

Denise,

The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.

Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???

However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico? The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?

PJ

Though the issues may apply elsewhere, the vast majority of complaints are about Mexican timeshares. They are able to do things without consequence in Mexico. Grupo Mayan is not the only Mexican timeshare developer that uses the same tactics.

 

[Karen G]

Denise,

The original idea of a "Bootcamp" thread was a good one, but this thread turned into something else.

Maybe a "Before The Sale - Learn About Presentations" and an "After the Sale - Problems or Second Thoughts"???

However, then I was thinking why here, in Mexico? The issues apply to other geographic areas as well - perhaps "Before - About Presentations" and "After - Second Thoughts?" - fit "Buying, Selling, Renting"?

PJ

There already is a sticky about "after the sale" issues--Know Your Rights of Rescission... with information specific to Mexico.

Since laws and business practices are different in Mexico, I think it's appropriate to have this thread in this forum. Certainly a similar thread could be posted in other forums relative to timeshare presentations in the U.S. or anywhere else.

It's incendiary enough to discuss just Mexican resorts without throwing other places into the mix as well.