Sticky - Mexican Timeshare Presentation Boot Camp

[tatmtr7]

leery of offer in Bucerias

Okay we were approached today by the Grand Lux salesman at Mega in Bucerias. The offer is $200 usd for 90 min which we know we can go and stay for our time and leave. We have done many a tour and declined. The offer that came after that was 500 if we have 2 different credit cards and go to a different presentation in Bucerias at some new place that the name sounds like "Tranquilities". The 2 different credit cards required makes me very apprehensive. We can sit for a morning and can say NO but the other offer is a different situation.
Thanks

 

[pjrose]

I'd be concerned if they want to take your cards and run them through.....
I wouldn't do it, but if you do, I suggest making sure that you have IN WRITING that it will take xxx minutes, that you will get the $ after xxx minutes, and that they will not charge your card for anything without your signature.

And then, DON'T SIGN ANYTHING!!!!!

 

[easyrider]

I don't see how it would matter how many cards you brought to a presentation as you don't let them have them unless you buy. All the presentations we attended we just showed our card without it ever leaving our sight.

Grand Lux is about a four hour dealio even if you say no no no. And no.

 

[Tropical lady]

don't think so......

A Grand Luxxe sales person would not be at the mega at Bucerias, a street corner, or the airport. They are at the resort. The resort has warned everyone about these people in addition to the ones at the airport who say they are there to take you to the resort then turn around and charge for the transportation. The GL transportation from the airport is complementry. I agree....do not give any credit cards unless you want to buy and only then. Why two?? I think Tranquilities was mentioned in a previous TUG post. You say you have been to other presentations, so you probably are prepared, but don't go unless you have an interest.

 

[Barbeque]

A Grand Luxxe sales person would not be at the mega at Bucerias, a street corner, or the airport. They are at the resort. The resort has warned everyone about these people in addition to the ones at the airport who say they are there to take you to the resort then turn around and charge for the transportation. The GL transportation from the airport is complementry. I agree....do not give any credit cards unless you want to buy and only then. Why two?? I think Tranquilities was mentioned in a previous TUG post. You say you have been to other presentations, so you probably are prepared, but don't go unless you have an interest.

Tropical Lady, The Salespeople for the Mayan resorts are all over the Puerto Vallarta and Nuevo Vallarta area They are so plentiful you might compare them to cockroaches. We have traded into the Grand Mayan twice (Through SFX) in Nuevo, We have also stayed at the Club Regina twice and Paradise Village. When we stayed at the Grand Mayan they had us wear a Grand Mayan Bracelet they said it was for security and maybe it was partly but it is also to tell the OPC (Which I think means Off Premises Contact) that we were staying at the Mayan. The salesman in town will leave you alone if you have on a bracelet as a owner or exchanger in the Mayan Resorts. This is why you dont see them. The letter is a ploy to keep you away from the other competitors we have seen the letter too. I would say in the times we have been to the area we have seen more Mayan salespeople on the streets than any other resort.
WE are not brave enough to take a tour of the Mayan resorts but they are very nice to stay at.
One of my favorite stories we were in Marina Vallarta and were approached by an OPC for the Mayan resorts who asked "How about a short tour of the Mayan Resorts?" I told him that we had been there almost a week and a tour of the Mayan Resorts is one thing I really wanted to do but no one asked us all week. I told him we were going home in the morning. I thought he would drop his teeth he was speechless. It was a hoot :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[CatLovers]

Tropical Lady, The Salespeople for the Mayan resorts are all over the Puerto Vallarta and Nuevo Vallarta area They are so plentiful you might compare them to cockroaches. We have traded into the Grand Mayan twice (Through SFX) in Nuevo, We have also stayed at the Club Regina twice and Paradise Village. When we stayed at the Grand Mayan they had us wear a Grand Mayan Bracelet they said it was for security and maybe it was partly but it is also to tell the OPC (Which I think means Off Premises Contact) that we were staying at the Mayan. The salesman in town will leave you alone if you have on a bracelet as a owner or exchanger in the Mayan Resorts. This is why you dont see them. The latter is a ploy to keep you away from the other competitors we have seen the latter too. I would say in the times we have been to the area we have seen more Mayan salespeople on the streets than any other resort.

Unfortunately, Barbeque is 100% correct. We were wearing Grand Mayan bracelets and we wondered why we were not harassed while several of our companions were. The two sharks came right out and said "Oh, because you are already staying there." We asked how they knew ... the bracelets of course! Plus the "warning" the Mayan folks give you is quite hilarious. It's bright neon yellow and they give you two versions in your "Welcome" packet. I'll try and attach a copy to this post, but if I can't, here is the short version:

They are deeply concerned about the unethical hysterical tactics used by other resorts in the area to persuade their members and guests to attend their timeshare presentations. Blah, blah, blah. It ends with "If you have accepted one of these invitations, please contact the Hostess Desk in the main lobby area and we may be able to honor your invitation. :hysterical: Right, trade in one piece of hell for another!

 

[rpennisi]

MP owner's update experience

When we checked in (Jan 8th), getting our bands at the MP, we were asked by Jorge to take the update...no...10% disc, approx. 50% off trips, and 1000 pesos...no...2000 pesos...no...2500 pesos...no...When asked again and again why not, we stated we didn’t want the pressure and the stress with 90 minutes becoming hours. That’s when Jorge told us we can leave after 90 minutes (beginning with breakfast time), and importantly...he would give us the discounts, etc. to our account..not the salesmen. We reluctantly agreed and guess what?...there was no pressure...no stress.
We stayed 45 minutes beyond the 90 minute time, but that was because I wanted to get our “equity” numbers and an offer. After I got that, I said “no thank you, and we are leaving now”...no hard sell, just thank you for coming and we walked out.
Several points:
Right off, I mentioned to our saleswoman, that I am on TUG, Yahoo MP owners group, TripAdvisor and a top 10 RCI contributor and loved trading with RCI.
I have been to more Mayan properties than she, and knew more about the layouts and changes to those properties over the years.
I was told that they no longer use the high pressure tactics, that they are salaried and not dependent on commissions. This may be true for current owners, maybe not for non owners.
Most of our time was spent: going to breakfast, eating, walking through the models and then walking back to the GM.

The numbers used to calculate the future MF’s and 5 yr extra MF were very inflated (I didn’t argue them). And, they calculated the 5X MF renewal after 25 years (will not happen)....to come up with a 20K+ cost for my 1 and 2 Bdrm MP contracts. Their offer: $10,800 cost to me for 3 weeks GM usage per year (they really want to get rid of MP weeks and VF weeks). I would pay only the MF's for what I used each year. I would also give up my MP contracts. I like using my split up 2 bedroom MP on RCI to get 2 weeks non Mayan trades. I said, “No thanks” and that was it.

PS We got everything we were promised initially.

 

[Tropical lady]

For someone who is about to go to a Mexican resort and be exposed to the presentation process, most of the posts here give good, detailed information from different experiences. No need to repeat.
Most, if not all resorts, have people trying to interest you in their resort. You will find them everywhere tourists are. In my opinion they are not sales people, their goal is to get you to a presentation. I don't recall any contracts being signed on a side street or in the Mega. Obviously, if you have a bracelet indicating a particular resort they are not going to spend time trying to get you there.
Just be aware that there have been tourists who gave deposits for a tour, etc, as part of a presentation "gift" and the tour never showed up to get them and they were out money. This happened to others we spoke with during our stay in NV and this is one of the reasons our resort put out warnings.....yes on bright yellow paper. Also, people were conned out of the complimentry transportation from the airport, then charged a high amount. It certainly does not hurt to be made aware if this is happening.
It comes down to....if interested go to the presentation armed with info, if not....don't go! If I'm not interested I'm not going to give the street hawkers 2 seconds of my vacation time and less than that complaining about them.

 

[BradC]

If you end up buying they'll make a big to-do about your purchase with lots of fanfare, maybe pop open some champagne, all for the show for other prospects in the vicinity to see that someone has made a purchase.

My favorite timeshare sales presentation moment was at Club Regina. Throughout our presentation, we were surprised at how many champagne bottles were being popped all around us. Each time, right after the POP, every salesperson in the room would applaud, and we were really surprised at how many people were actually buying.

When we finally said NO enough to be released, they brough over a bottle of champagne and offered a glass as a final thank you.

Sure enough: POP! Clapclapclapclap.

We couldn't stop laughing.

 

[Vera V Christopher]

Complaint About The Grupo Mayan And The Reneging Of Their Promise To Return Money

[FONT="Georgia"]:annoyed: [/FONT]

THE GRUPO MAYAN ARE HANGING ONTO MY MONEY AFTER PROMISING TO RETURN IT TO ME. THEY HAVE SENT DOZENS OF EMAILS PROMISING THAT THEY WOULD RETURN TO ME THE MONEY OWED AND INSTEAD WHEN I ERASED ALL THE COMMENTS ON THE DIFFERENT WEBSITES EXPLAINING MY SITUATION THEY RENEGED ON THEIR PROMISE TO GIVE BACK THE MONEY PAID TO THEM. THEY CANCELLED THE CONTRACT AND PROMISED TO GIVE BACK THE MONEY AS SOON AS ALL THE COMMENTS MADE ABOUT THEM WERE REMOVED. THEY HAVE NOT BEHAVED CORRECTLY AT ALL.

SINCE MAY OF 2008 I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR MY MONEY AND EVEN WHEN ALL THE COMMENTS WERE ERASED THEY DID NOT RETURN IT. INSTEAD THEY CAME UP WITH ANOTHER CONTRACT TO SAY THAT I SHALL PROMISE NEVER TO WRITE ANY COMMENTS OR SAY ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THEM OF A NEGATIVE NATURE. WELL, THEY LET ME DOWN BADLY AND REFUSED TO CONTACT THE LAWYER WHO ACTED AS ESCROW AGENT TO ENSURE THAT THEY WOULD NOT RENEGE ON THEIR PROMISE. TO NO AVAIL. THEY RENEGED.

WHAT TO DO WITH SUCH A COMPANY? IS THIS WHY THEY HAVE MOVED TO MEXICO? THERE WERE A LOT OF COURT CASES IN THE U.S. AGAINST THEM. I HAVE SEEN SO MANY COMMENTS FROM DISGRUNTLED AND CHEATED CUSTOMERS. I BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THEY HAVE DEFRAUDED ME OF THIS MONEY WHICH IS NEARLY FOUR THOUSAND U.S. DOLLARS AND IT NEEDS TO BE PAID BACK WITH INTEREST PLUS THE FEE OF MR. STEPHEN BOYD (£350) SHOULD BE COVERED BY THEM.

THEY HAVE BEEN VERY UNFAIR TO ME. WHEN I WENT TO THEM TWO DAYS AFTER THE INITIAL RIP OFF THEY SIMPLY PLAYED IT ALL DOWN AND GAVE ME BACK NOTHING. THEY JUST THREW AT ME "WHY DID YOU SIGN". THE COFFEE THAT I WAS SERVED SEPARATELY FROM THE BUFFET BREAKFAST WHICH WAS "FREE" AND ALL "FIVE STAR!" WAS NOT KOSHER. HOW IS IT THAT I COULD NOT STAND UP PROPERLY AFTER DRINKING THE "COFFEE". I WAS UNABLE TO WALK WITHOUT SITTING DOWN EVERY SO MANY FEET. IT WAS AWFUL AND MY EYELIDS WERE CLOSING ALL THE TIME EVEN THOUGH I HAD HAD A FULL NIGHT'S SLEEP AFTER OUR JOURNEY FROM LONDON. I AM ALONE, AND HAVE NO FAMILY TO SHARE A STUDIO WITH THEM. IT WAS MISREPRESENTATION ON THEIR PART. THEY NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE TIMESHARE AT ALL. NEVER USED THE WORD ONCE. THEY USED JARGON THAT I HAD NEVER HEARD BEFORE. I WAS NOT SURE THAT THAT WAS ALL ENGLLISH, IT IS ALL MADE UP EXPRESSION FOR THIS "BUSINESS" THAT THEY ARE RUNNING. AND ALL TO GET YOU INTO A FLUSTER AND CONFUSION.

THEY HAVE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN THIS MONEY OWED. IT BELONGS TO ME AND NOT TO THEM. THERE IS NO DEAL AND NEVER WAS ONE IN REALITY. IT WAS ALL MISREPRESENTATION FROM THE BEGINNING. THEIR REPS AT CANCUN AIRPORT WERE SELLING "CHEAP TRIPS" AROUND MEXICO NOT TIMESHARE. MY COMPANION BOUGHT TWO TICKETS AND I ENDED UP HAVING THESE TWO REPS AT OUR HOTEL THE NEXT MORNING AT NINE A.M. THEY HAD PARKED JUST OUTSIDE IN THE ALLEYWAY BY THE SIDE OF THE HOTEL. THEY DID NOT PARK IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING WHERE WE WERE STAYING AND WHERE ALL THE OTHER CARS PARKED. THEY WERE THERE AT THE SIDE LIKE HIDING. WHEN I ASKED THEM WHY THEY HAD PARKED LIKE THAT THEY SAID THAT THE HOTEL STAFF WOULD BE "JEALOUS"! BECAUSE OF THE SUPERIOR ACCOMMODATION THEY HAD TO OFFER...!!! WELL IF THAT IS NOT A STORY. THEY MUST HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE AND THE HOTEL STAFF WOULD RECOGNISE THEM AND TELL US NOT TO BE INVOLVED WITH THEM.

ANYWAY, THIS WHOLE EPISODE HAS BEEN VERY UNPLEASANT. THE MONEY NEEDS TO BE RETURNED IN FULL WITH INTEREST DUE TO SUCH A LONG TIME IN WAITING FOR IT TO BE RETURNED. PLUS THE ESCROW AGENT, THE LAWYER IN THE U.K. WHO WAS DEALING WITH THEM, THEY IGNORED THEM AND SIMPLY DISAPPEARED.

SO WHAT ARE THEY TO SAY NOW? THEY ARE HIDING IN MEXICO WITH PEOPLE'S HARD EARNED MONEY. THIS IS NOT RIGHT. IT IS A SERIOUS ABUSE. THE LAWS IN MEXICO ARE NOT RESPECTED BY THEM EITHER AND THE COOLING OFF PERIOD IS NOT RESPECTED BY THEM.

I HAVE BEEN VERY PATIENT BUT IT IS REALLY RUNNING OUT NOW. IT HAS DRAGGED ON FOR TOO LONG.

 

[mikenk]

This was an earlier reply from a Grupo Mayan representative on similar issues. i would suggest you contact her.

Mike
--------------------------------

"We invite you all to contact us regarding your experience with us, as part of our daily quest for improvement and high regard for customer satisfaction.

We assure you that each situation will be analized to be able to resolve any pending issues you may have with us.

We hope to continue this dialogue by having you all contact us directly at 1 (800) 292-9446 or by email at: grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com.

We are a team of devoted Customer Care workers and we take pride in hosting at our resorts thousands of happy clients that can safely attest to our dedication to our members and guests. We would like you all to be satisfied members as well.

Sincerely,
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative."

 

[Grupo Mayan]

we are happy to be given a chance to share our side of the story

Dear Ms. Christopher (and readers):

We are truly committed to customer satisfaction. Our members and our guests are our highest priority and we work hard day and night to make sure your vacations in Mexico are amazing each and every time.

We often monitor blogs in an extra effort to satisfy any customer that for some reason did not call us but decided to complain online. In rare occasions, we come across blog posts like these, and we are happy to be given a chance to share our side of the story. We take any slander against our hard working team very seriously and we work hard to ensure our reputation and the jobs of thousands of individuals that work diligently to please all our guests is not put at risk by false and unrestrained accusations such as these.

Despite Ms. Christopher´s false accusations, we actually attempted to work things out with her numerous times in the best possible manner for all parties involved. We can safely confirm that we have resolved many cases in good will, after being approached by dissatisfied clients. As Customer Service advocates, we appreciate the opportunity to make our clients happy and by establishing a direct route of communication, we get the chance to analyze each case individually and find the most suitable solution.

Unfortunately, we exhausted every possible way available to us to reach an agreement with her without reaching a solution. Beyond reason, we were asked to provide her legal team with several free services on our behalf, we were also asked to reimburse a long list of alleged expenses unrelated to her visit, and finally her accusations are completely false and utter fabrications in an attempt to obtain resources from the company.

Ms. Christopher has another post online where she complaints about a resort in Turkey: http://www.badhap.com/i_was_ripped_off/ms_vera_v_christopher.aspx . We do not have any information to verify her story.

Therefore, our position stands and we will be more than happy to resolve any pending issues with Ms. Christopher as long as it is within the legal boundaries and resolution dispute agreed upon in writing in her contract with us. Ms. Christopher, once again, if you have any further complaints we would like to address them directly via phone with you. We will no longer continue to monitor this blog or any further replies by you. We will not continue entertaining libel online. We are true to our commitment to excellence, integrity, and above all your satisfaction.

For all other readers of this blog, please remember that the only way to assure that we get your message and follow-up, is to contact us at grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com or by telephone at 1-800-292-9446.

We truly appreciate your time.

Sincerely,
Karen Rose
Customer Support Representative.

 

[am1]

If they have wronged you, you should not take what you wrote online down if it is true. Others deserve to know how the resort operates.

Good luck in your fight.

 

[Tropical lady]

Hmmmmm......

Just to clarify......are you saying that this has been going on for almost 3 years? With all the emails they sent to you about returning your money, your lawyer should have no trouble resolving this.

 

[CatLovers]

After a recent very negative experience with Grupo Mayan, I googled them and discovered that words such as “con-men”, “cheaters”, “swindlers”, “scam artists”, “liars”, “crooks”, “dishonest”, “corrupt”, and “fraudulent” were only just a few of the epithets used repeatedly to describe this organization. The Better Business Bureau in the U.S. gives this company a rating of F, the lowest possible given by the BBB.

In fact, I was so disgusted with the behavior of their salespeople that I blogged about them on my leadership practices blog.

Fortunately, I did not get "sucked" in to purchasing anything from them, but my heart goes out to you for what you say you've had to live through. Don't give up, and good luck!

 

[pjrose]

You'll have a better chance if you lay out the facts in chronological order, with as much evidence as possible. If you indeed have emails saying that the money would be refunded, then as Tropical Lady points out, there shouldn't be an issue.

I suggest that you keep your complaint to the specifics of what happened, what you were told, when, by whom, and copies of the dozens of emails.

Skip the ALL CAPS, the comments about the coffee (unless you are claiming it was spiked with alcohol? - and if so, can you verify that?), whether you are alone, where they were parked, and anything else that is not specific to the purchase and promises made and broken.

 

[mikenk]

Realistically, no one really has a clue as to what really went on in this particular situation - I suspect a lot more than reported. Of course, we all assume whatever we want.

We all know about the Grand Mayan reputation for high pressure sales, However, I also know from personal experience that the signed contract is fully and fairly administrated by the GM member services people. It would appear that this is some sort of contract dispute as opposed to the general case of people wanting out of the deal.

I believe the OP would do much better by calling Karen Rose and doing so with a level head than shouting here.


Mike

 

[Passepartout]

I just thought it is interesting that after the OP posted her rant, 3 1/2 hours later there was a reply/retort (from Grupo Vidanta), complete with what appear to be background and additional info about the OP's posts from other sources. They obviously monitor the blogosphere and many forums for mentions of their name in less than flattering light.

Many times we've seen retractions of allegations against Grupo, and I've suspected they are a condition that must be met before a refund will be issued. Some retractions and pleading with Mods to remove an offending post have thinly veiled comments that it was 'necessary to achieve desired results'.

Comments above in the reply from Grupo lead me to wonder if the OP just didn't remove all her iterations of dissatisfaction from every place they got posted.

I agree that she should follow up by phone, clearly, without emotion or threat. While it would have been better if she had not made the Grupo purchase, we all know how difficult it is to get away from their salesrooms.

I wish her well and hope she can achieve satisfaction. It doesn't seem likely.

Jim Ricks

 

[pjrose]

Jim and Mike, I agree. However, note the OP says she went to them two days after the original purchase - well within the five days grace period.

Anyway, without a more clear description of the specifics, we really don't know what's going on.

I recall another unclear complaint a month or so ago that we couldn't figure out. We try to help, but can't if the posts aren't clear.

 

[Tropical lady]

Hmmmmmmm....

I wonder if we are ever going to get a reply, update, or whatever? Mexico and Turkey (interesting review of the hotel) will obviously not be included in future vacation plans.

 

[Vera V Christopher]

No Money In Bank From Grupo Mayan, No Stopping With Exposure On Internet

If they have wronged you, you should not take what you wrote online down if it is true. Others deserve to know how the resort operates.

Good luck in your fight.

Thank you for the moral support in getting my hard earned money back from the Grupo Mayan. Yes, until the money is in the my bank account there will be no removal of any comments on the internet. And yes, if anyone is in doubt as to their validity just consider how much time and energy was spent in writing the whole account of what happened in Mexico and afterwards here in London seeking advice and getting to know about the whole timeshare system etc. I did not know that we were dealing in some sort of timeshare until we were in the glass auditorium at the Mayan Palace! And even then they were calling it something else. My companion and I thought that we were being taken to a hotel like any other five star to look at and consider for the next year as a place to stay for two weeks. I thought that the two men taking us to the Mayan Palace were local travel agents. Nothing more than that! And I would not have gone in the first place had not my companion insisted that she wanted to see this "out of this world place!" The scenery was pretty but we were feeling uncomfortable with all this sales pressure and hype...so many people there too!..I had no idea that they would ask me how much money I spent on the vacation I was on, and then they say you can pay the same again as a deposit. That is how it is calculated! All of this was new to me. In England timeshare has a very bad name, and people keep away from it for the most part.

Anyway, the long and the short of this story is that there will be no surrender, this is a battle to the finish....the money has to be put into my bank account before any comments made over the internet can be erased. People should be forewarned. "To be forewarned is to be forearmed!", as they say. My experience has been very frustrating and stressful. In fact if this case were brought before a judge in a courtroom I would most probably have compensation for a ruined holiday. When I returned to England I had to get antibiotics for the asthma and bronchitis that I suffered upon my return. I was in poor health. I was at home for some three weeks not able to function properly and it was warm in London, summer time. I do not recall ever returning from a holiday like that, not ever!!!! Shame, as I like a lot about Mexico. One day I hope that I really have a proper vacation there to enjoy and to remember in a good way. Perhaps where it is dry, as Cancun is rather humid, especially in May with the rainy season being on, and the mosquitoes are legion there at that time of year.

THANK YOU FOR THE MORAL SUPPORT, FRIENDS!

 

[John Cummings]

I did not know that we were dealing in some sort of timeshare until we were in the glass auditorium at the Royal Mayan Palace!

I thought that the two men taking us to the Royal Mayan Palace were local travel agents.

Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.

Exactly where were you?

 

[pjrose]

Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.

Exactly where were you?

I agree. Ms. Christopher's comments slander The Royal Mayan.

Ms. Christopher, please correct all of your posts - here and in the Cancun Airport thread - so that you are warning people about the organization with which you had problems. Your posts lose credibility when you are inaccurate, and unfairly hurt the reputation of a different resort.

I believe your problem was with Grupo Mayan, and you were taken to the Mayan Palace. You were NOT at The Royal Mayan. The Royal Mayan has no glass auditorium, and does not operate in the manner you have described.

Thank you, though, for unlocking the caps lock key

 

[Karen G]

Why do you keep calling it Royal Mayan? The Royal Mayan is one of the Royals resorts and has absolutely nothing to do with the Grupo Mayan resorts.

Exactly where were you?

I've corrected the resort name for her.

 

[california-bighorn]

Give back incentive?

I am certainly not going to defend the Grupo Mayan (Mayan Palace) as we were feed their lies and deceit at a presentation in PV years ago and are aware of their well deserved reputation.
What was the incentive to get you to come to the presentation? Was it somewhere around 200-400 Pesos and a blanket? I know most will probably disagree with me, but, to start I would tell them you will return anything and everything they gave you to take the presentation when the contract is cancelled. That would show good faith on your part and might show you in a good light with your bank where you are attempting to get the refund. Just a thought.
Being ingorant (way before our TUG days) when we took the PV presentation, we bit and bought. But, after getting back to our room and re-reading the contract and finding they removed some of the promises they made from the contract, I walked into the Sales Manager's office and returned the incentives they gave us and told them we were recinding. Still went thru the process described in the contract to recind to be sure, but it probably didn't hurt that I mentioned we had returned everything they gave us to attend.