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Sticky - Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation

Belle76

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Thanks for all the good advice. I found TUG just in time to rescind on a $20,000 timeshare at Pueblo Bonito Sunset, even though they had me sign a waiver to prevent the cancellation. I contacted Profeco and they were very helpful. My credit card company refunded the deposit. It has been 40 days and so far they have not tried to resubmit the charges and have not contacted us. Hopefully, this will be the end of it. Wish I had the sense to research prior to attending the presentation, but never thought I would ever sign up for it. Got caught up in the moment like so many others. I will go back to PB as a renter of someone else's timeshare, as it is really a beautiful place.
 

Karen G

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Belle76, congratulations! So glad you found TUG in time.
 
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There is relief after 5 days

Just so you know mostly all mexican timeshare contracts are voidable, even after 5 days because most of them are only in english and they are rarely ever translated into spanish. [Advertising is not permitted in this forum.
 
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These guys will say anything to get you to sign. I did and regret it. They told my wife and I a bunch of lies and we believed them. When I went to book my first vacation, I was told that it does not work the way they sold it to me. They then ignored my emails and phone calls for months. I filed with PROFECO and they no showed the first 2 hearings.
I tried to be resonable thinking I could eventually contact an ethical person in the company. They refuse to give you any mangement names because they have so many irrate customers.
This company is a scam and they know it. Do not stay at their resorts or attend there seminars. They will lie and then try and tell you they're not like they gave done to me and others.

You can still fight back. Most mexican timeshare contracts are done in english only wich makes the contract voidable under mexican law. Whenever anyone wants to cxl a contract generally they run to profeco and are heart borken to find out they only had. 5 days to rescind the contract. Profeco will not go through every aspect of your contract to find a way out for you. [no advertising]
 
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Passepartout

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Just so you know mostly all mexican timeshare contracts are voidable, even after 5 days because most of them are only in english and they are rarely ever translated into spanish. [advertising deleted.

Oh Please! Oh Please! Include details! Is there an upfront fee? What is your success ratio? Which resorts have you had success with? There are thousands of potential clients right here, but without some details you will be branded a scam like so many other upfront fee outfits. I don't think that the fact that the contract is in English has any bearing on whether or not it can be voided after the Federally allowable 5 days rescission period. A few TUGgers have had some success with Profeco in cancelling contracts when there was fraud on the part of the resorts. Some have come back and asked that all of their derogatory posts be removed as a condition of making amends with Grupo Vidanta.

I Googled your username and came up empty. Forgive us for being skeptical, but this isn't our first dance.

Jim
 
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A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V. Is this place on the up and up? Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse. Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.

They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.

Thanks...
 

DeniseM

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A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V. Is this place on the up and up? Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse. Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.

They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.

Thanks...

1. Sometimes these "trade-ins" are never taken out of the owners name and they end up with 2 maintenance fees.

2. You can acquire timeshares in Mexico for absolutely free.

3. Does she have the "penthouse" thing in writing? Timeshare sales people in Mexico are infamous for making false verbal promises which aren't in the contract and aren't enforceable.
 
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Thanks Denise M.... I'm not sure what she has in writing. I will ask. I didn't like to tell her that I found the exact same timeshare on Ebay for $1.00.

They enjoyed the location very much, so hopefully they will be able to go there when they want. They traded in an Oregon timeshare and had to pay this year's MF's upfront.

Resort CLosings are handling all the paperwork.... are they OK too?
Thanks, :)
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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A friend has just bought EOY week at Paradise Village in Neuvo V. Is this place on the up and up? Apparently, all she has to do is book now and can choose the size of room up to a Penthouse. Doesn't have to pay MF's unless she goes.

They took a timeshare in trade, and she paid $$ too.

Thanks...

1. Sometimes these "trade-ins" are never taken out of the owners name and they end up with 2 maintenance fees.

2. You can acquire timeshares in Mexico for absolutely free.

3. Does she have the "penthouse" thing in writing? Timeshare sales people in Mexico are infamous for making false verbal promises which aren't in the contract and aren't enforceable.
The "trade in" program at Paradise Village in the past has been handled through Sumday. One time I posted that I thought it was a scam because the contract they give you to sign does not say they are taking title to your timeshare. Sumday himself contacted me later and assured me that they do take over title. Take that with whatever assurance or skepticism you want.
 

MsAndi

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Getting out of Pueblo Bonito timeshare

I wanted to say thank you to everyone on this board and share my story in the hopes that maybe it will help someone else.

I purchased a Pueblo Bonito timeshare based on my interest in the 6 weeks enticement they (aka Dirk) gave me for Pueblo Bonito Premier. It was easy to envision quick getaways and long vacations all over the world for ridiculously low fixed weekly rates of $199-$399. First lesson: If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

I guess I never felt totally comfortable about the purchase, because my first day home (Day 5 after purchasing, but a Saturday) I started googling Pueblo Bonito scam. I found this and other websites and discovered that my deal probably was too good to be true. I called the number for Pueblo Bonito Premier and was informed that the rates are dependent on the property and the time of year and that the low rates I was quoted might be available on a last minute basis, although his "might" seemed rather skeptical.

I immediately called the credit card company where I charged the "non-refundable" deposit to alert them and started putting together all my documentation for them.

I was kind of freaking out and kept googling till I found out about the 5 day rule (Thank you Jason!). After following more links, I learned that the 5 day rule refers to 5 business days (i.e. Monday to Friday) so that if I cancelled by Monday, I would be within the timeframe. This was a huge relief!

I emailed my cancellation notice, copied Prefeco, the US consulate in Mexico and a few other agencies and prepared my letter to send first thing Monday morning.

In response to my email, I heard from Profeco first thing Monday morning telling me that email and fax were OK as a backup, but that I should definitely send a letter by some sort of mail service that has a return receipt service, e.g FedEx or UPS.

Note: Due to customs, even the quickest and most expensive FedEx service wasn't going to get my letter to Mexico until Thursday (Day 8), but Profeco assured me that it was the date of sending, not that date of receipt that mattered...another big sigh of relief. They also told me that they cannot cancel the contract for me, but they would do everything to help me.

I spent countless hours working on this and pretty much ruined my first weekend home and got to work late today but I am so grateful that I found out about in enough time to get my cancellation letter in on day 5.

I haven't gotten a reply from them yet, but with all I have learned and with Profeco's support, it seems unlikely that they will not be forced to cancel my contract and refund my deposit.

Thanks again!
 

Karen G

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Tugger successfully gets out of a fraudulent contract

Here is information from a Tugger that might be useful to others who have been defrauded by buying a timeshare in Mexico:


I had never been to Mexico, knew nothing about timeshares or TUG until it was too late. I will skip the details of how the grifters tricked me, you have heard that all before. The names and dates have been omitted to protect the guilty. What follows is a very condensed version of the whole story but I am reporting what is important to everyone who has been scammed by TS grifters.
I got a copy of the Mexican Consumer Federal Protection law, about 100 pages and studied it.

All TS contracts are adhesion contracts and have to be registered with Profeco. I got a copy of the registered Spanish contract from Profeco and compared it to the English contract. The English contract was not the same and illegal because of Article 86.

ARTICLE 86 quater. Any difference between the text of the adhesion contract registered with the Federal Consumer Protection Agency and the adhesion contract used to the detriment of consumers shall be rendered null and void.

Profeco did not discover this when I first filed my complaint, I did. I had to contact a different department in Profeco, the contract division. They confirmed that my English contract was indeed a violation of 86 and illegal. They suggested I make my Profeco representative aware of this.

It is my opinion that once Profeco declared the contract illegal it would be fraud for the resort to keep my money. That is a criminal offense in Mexico and the US. At any rate at this point I got almost all my money back.

Legal proceedings in Mexico are different than in the US. In the US if you are completely right you expect to win completely and win big. In Mexico it very much about compromise even if you have the other guy dead to rights. So I gave up a few hundred dollars to get back several thousand.

Profeco actually has no authority to make the resort pay the money back (even after they said the contract was illegal). You would have to sue in the courts and Mexican justice is an oxymoron (again my opinion). Profeco can make their life miserable though because they approve the contracts and they can sanction them for violations. That is the big stick they have.

Let’s see what else may be of interest. I confronted the credit card company with this evidence...nothing. I filed arbitration and they immediately gave me my money back (damages for breach of contract). My take on credit card companies is that they are in it for the money and side with the merchant. They know perfectly well you are being cheated but unless you have irrefutable proof they will keep the money. I know some people feel otherwise, just my opinion from this one experience.

They said they could not charge the merchant back. I don't believe that, they just did want to offend the money maker. I however continued to pursue the Profeco case I had filed. After many months the contract division of Profeco agreed the contract was illegal and said so in writing. I negotiated a settlement with the grifters and got more money back (damages for the fraud). So after two years and a lot of work (I have left out a lot of details) I got my money back.
The American Embassy said they have never heard of anyone doing what I have done. So I wanted to tell my story so maybe it can help others.
------------------
I'll be making this a sticky later to keep it at the top of the Mexico forum.
 

buceo

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...Legal proceedings in Mexico are different than in the US. In the US if you are completely right you expect to win completely and win big...

I've certainly read here about all the problems with ts in MX, I just haven't experienced them, though we own 7 weeks there. One major reason we bought in MX is the above quote; really we see it just the opposite (likely we didn't buy from the same resort the OP did). Here in the US we continually sue each other for any reason, I'm not referring to the OP, it's us as a culture, but you just you can't have it both ways. It raises prices here enormously. The US, plain and simple is expensive, insurance and litigation is a big part of that. The OP does point out that MX is "different" than the US, yes that is why we bought there and would do it again in a heart beat. Where we bought IN MX is just not any different, in practice for us, than the US, unless there is a slippery floor/ loose rug, we get hurt and sue and they say "hasta luego".
footnote: Probably the resort to which the OP refers is loved by traders and renters. A great vaca "just don't buy". You can't have said resort(s) without people buying from the developer...to point out the obvious.
 

Karen G

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Glenn, I agree with you and we've enjoyed our Mexican timeshare immensely over the last 15 years. But, there have certainly been a lot of changes in how things are done in the timeshare world since we bought ours--not only in Mexico but around the world.

I'm very happy that the person was able to get his dispute resolved, and I hope his experience can be useful to others in his situation.
 

eakhat

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When we were in Mexico in 2007, we ended up buying a small vacation package. After the purchase I spent time researching what we purchased, and I found lots and lots of negative reviews. My husband and I immediately went back to the sales area, and they told us it was too late to rescind. After doing more research, we decided it wasn't too late. We typed a formal letter and delivered to the sales office.hen we returned home,
 

eakhat

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2nd half of message--the 1st half accidentally posted on me.

When we returned home, I contacted our credit card company, and they were wonderful. I faxed all the negative information I found. In about 2-3 months, the charge was taken off our account.

On an interesting note, I keep getting e-mails regarding our use of the membership, Great Vacations Club, and early this morning, someone from GVC called to say our resort certificates are about to expire. We are still listed as members.
 

buceo

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Glenn, ...I'm very happy that the person was able to get his dispute resolved, and I hope his experience can be useful to others in his situation.

I agree. What I don't agree with is the poster not making the issue about the resort, the OP says, "The names and dates have been omitted to protect the guilty." What? What's the real story? It took a lot of work certainly as admitted to in part because no homework was done in advance, but it was all settled...eventually. I'd like to see the resort and people at the resort called out, not the country.

Not: "...useful to others who have been defrauded by buying a timeshare in Mexico"
But instead, useful to others who have been defrauded by resort company X". Seems MX came through better than the US cc company.

If the OP signed something protecting the resort, I don't think the whole country should be the fall back, like I said, lots of personal experience, none like the OPs one time experience.
 

tonyg

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Most people who post details on the internet get pressure to remove such posts in order to get a settlement. This has happened many times with several Mexican resorts.
 

Karen G

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I'd like to see the resort and people at the resort called out, not the country.
His experience was specific to Mexico because of their consumer protection rules.




He didn't have to agree to anything about disclosing the resort name, but I believe his main point was that the Spanish version of his contract, which was registered with Profeco, was different from the English version which he was presented with by the timeshare sales people. That was what constituted fraud based on the Mexican consumer protection rules.
 
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buceo

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...I got a copy of the registered Spanish contract from Profeco and compared it to the English contract. The English contract was not the same and illegal because of Article 86.

ARTICLE 86 quater. Any difference between the text of the adhesion contract registered with the Federal Consumer Protection Agency and the adhesion contract used to the detriment of consumers shall be rendered null and void...

Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>? It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud? I didn't read it that way. I read it that the OP wanted out of the purchase (why was that, the scam part, "the usual" you can rent for a small fortune claims etc?) and because the contracts were different he could get out of it. Did I get that wrong, wouldn't be the first time? I'm not seeing in his reported instance why fraud (defrauded) and Mexico are in the same sentence referring to the contracts. "Illegal" yes because they were somehow different & that's protected against, but not fraudulent? It's not real important that I understand this, I just don't. Thanks.
 

Karen G

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Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>? It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud?

Here is some further information from the person who got out of the contract:

The message is to study the Mexican consumer protection laws and use then to your advantage. In my case the main one (not the only one but the main one) was the violation of article 86. The English contract was different than the official Spanish contract and it was done so to deceive the consumer. Clear violation of 86. At that point I had them dead to rights. Even then Profeco cannot make them give the money back. They said I would have to sue in a Mexican court. That is very risky because US law is case law and Mexican law is based on Napoleonic Law. Here is quote from one of the many resources I used in my research.

NEGOTIATING A SETTLEMENT

Regardless of the type of legal documentation you have to support your claim, Mexican courts are unpredictable at best and justice is often illusory. Thus, if you are able to come to a “middle ground” with your Mexican debtor and recover at least part of the debt, you will be much better off than you would be with a judgment for the whole debt but payment of nothing. Therefore, the importance of reaching out to your adversary and coming to a reasonable settlement, if possible, cannot be overstated.

Mexican courts are VERY slow, the resorts have lawyers who know how to delay this until you die.

Having said all this there is much to be admired about Mexican law vs. US law which can be very litigious. Mexican law avoids a lot of that and forces the parties to come to a compromise. So I agree with the responder that expressed a preference for Mexican law vs. US.
So to reiterate, my point is Mexican law is different (not worse or better but different) than what we are used to in the US. You are playing on their ground by their rules so you have to understand them.


Someone wanted to know the identity of the resort, “call them out”. That is not necessary, my method is applicable to any adhesion contract in Mexico. That is my message.


I am not picking on Mexico. In fact it is ironic that most of the grifters are Americans (and a few Canadians) cheating mainly American and Canadian tourists. The resort is owned by Americans and the sales staff are American. The only people that really helped me were Mexicans.
 

buceo

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...The English contract was different than the official Spanish contract and it was done so to deceive the consumer...

...Someone wanted to know the identity of the resort, “call them out”. That is not necessary...

Very interesting what you went through, no doubt exhausting. Glad it turned out reasonably well. However what I think are the two most valuable pieces of information to help others are left out? What was in the contract that was fraudulent, people could easily watch for that and what resort is practicing fraud in their contracts? For others to have to pursue what you did is extremely difficult, as you know. If they could just watch for these two items, who is defrauding and how, they could avoid completely what you went through.

It's also interesting why you wanted out in the first place, what started this over "several thousand dollars"?

And thanks for this summary, maybe it's just me, but I didn't get this from the earlier posts:
Having said all this there is much to be admired about Mexican law vs. US law which can be very litigious. Mexican law avoids a lot of that and forces the parties to come to a compromise. So I agree with the responder that expressed a preference for Mexican law vs. US.
So to reiterate, my point is Mexican law is different (not worse or better but different) than what we are used to in the US. You are playing on their ground by their rules so you have to understand them.
 

MuranoJo

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I am not picking on Mexico. In fact it is ironic that most of the grifters are Americans (and a few Canadians) cheating mainly American and Canadian tourists. The resort is owned by Americans and the sales staff are American. The only people that really helped me were Mexicans.

We met a couple of U.S. guys in PV a few years ago who were sly timeshare salesmen. They worked the Malecon and would chat up the tourists, posing as fellow tourists who were living there for an extended vacation. Very good at suggesting dining and touring suggestions, then gradually working in a suggestion to do a t/s presentation.

Karen, thanks for posting this on behalf of the other TUGger. Interesting to hear of the MX vs. English versions of the contracts. I doubt many know of this.
 

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Mexican Resorts

are notorius for being crooks. They will skin you alive while talking to you and you won't even know it. Thousands have been scammed. :hysterical:
 

Passepartout

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Hard enough to prove fraud, but when it involves one contract in Spanish, approved by Profeco and another- presumably just an English translation- that differs materially would be hard to chase down.

Great legwork on the part of the OP! Who'd'a thought.

Jim
 

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Fraud? So there was intentional deception made for personal gain in the contracts of the <not to be named resort for some reason>? It wasn't that the two contracts in two languages read differently, there was actually fraud? I didn't read it that way. I read it that the OP wanted out of the purchase (why was that, the scam part, "the usual" you can rent for a small fortune claims etc?) and because the contracts were different he could get out of it. Did I get that wrong, wouldn't be the first time? I'm not seeing in his reported instance why fraud (defrauded) and Mexico are in the same sentence referring to the contracts. "Illegal" yes because they were somehow different & that's protected against, but not fraudulent? It's not real important that I understand this, I just don't. Thanks.

Is it your contention that Mexico timeshare resorts don't lie to prospective buyers? Really? You are surprised that a TS might be engaging in fraud?

Heaven forbid!! :rofl:
 
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