Starwood gave drunken man her room key, resulting in assault

[DeniseM]

The accuser has already discredited him by accusing him of such a sick and disgusting crime...Personally, i believe(Though know it'll never happen)that if false allegations are proven in cases like this...The same sentence that would have been put against the accused should be set against those that made the false allegation....i think it is WAY too common for women to falsely accuse men of this and there should be MAJOR consequences to this behavior...When charges like this come up the FIRST thing people should be thinking is...."What does she have to gain from this false allegation"

Before Ride gets anyone too "stirred" up, just remember that he is:

 

[SueDonJ]

The accuser has already discredited him by accusing him of such a sick and disgusting crime...Personally, i believe(Though know it'll never happen)that if false allegations are proven in cases like this...The same sentence that would have been put against the accused should be set against those that made the false allegation....i think it is WAY too common for women to falsely accuse men of this and there should be MAJOR consequences to this behavior...When charges like this come up the FIRST thing people should be thinking is...."What does she have to gain from this false allegation"

That still doesn't answer my question which is, why do you find it necessary to immediately find a reason to discredit an accuser, in order to allow a presumption of innocence for an accused? What you're saying is that unless you're able to personally discredit the accuser then you're not able to presume the accused is innocent. That presumption is not for you to bestow! It's granted legally. So you either give every accused person the benefit of the doubt, which is what our system requires, or you don't.

As far as what we all should be thinking when these types of accusations are made, well, I disagree with your FIRST order of business in this case. I'm not comfortable with dragging a possible rape victim through hot coals, at least not until it's been proven that s/he isn't actually a victim. But that doesn't mean that I automatically presume guilt of the accused - it only means that judgment is reserved until the facts are known.

 

[DeniseM]

My first concern is 1) what the hotels policy is, and 2) if it was followed...

 

[SueDonJ]

My first concern is 1) what the hotels policy is, and 2) if it was followed...

And 3) did they both get rewards points and access to the Concierge Lounge?

 

[Ridewithme38]

As far as what we all should be thinking when these types of accusations are made, well, I disagree with your FIRST order of business in this case. I'm not comfortable with dragging a possible rape victim through hot coals, at least not until it's been proven that s/he isn't actually a victim. But that doesn't mean that I automatically presume guilt of the accused - it only means that judgment is reserved until the facts are known.

I think the difference in our views is who we perceive is the victim in these cases...99 out of 100 times(made up on the spot) the man accused of rape has done nothing but get involved with a jadded women who believes they are almost required to yell 'sexual assault' at any man that looks at her wrong....the other 1% are the sick-o's who should be dismembered and abused children...Yes i'll grant there are men in jail who have been judged guilty of 'sexual abuses' it is a shame that they were unable to get a good lawyer so they could prove how innocent they were...cases where the man was unable to prove the truth only further the stereotype that women can get away with this behavior

 

[DeniseM]

I think the difference in our views is who we perceive is the victim in these cases...99 out of 100 times(made up on the spot) the man accused of rape has done nothing but get involved with a jadded women who believes they are almost required to yell 'sexual assault' at any man that looks at her wrong....the other 1% are the sick-o's who should be dismembered and abused children...Yes i'll grant there are men in jail who have been judged guilty of 'sexual abuses' it is a shame that they were unable to get a good lawyer so they could prove how innocent they were...cases where the man was unable to prove the truth only further the stereotype that women can get away with this behavior

99% of the time? :hysterical:

Please document that number for us!

 

[Ridewithme38]

99% of the time? :hysterical:

Please document that number for us!

haha, ok i may have gone a little far with that post....

 

[SueDonJ]

haha, ok i may have gone a little far with that post....

A little far? It was so far over the line into Ridiculous Town that it made me laugh right out loud. :hysterical:

 

[sb2313]

And 3) did they both get rewards points and access to the Concierge Lounge?

How could you forget elite night credit??
Kidding aside, it sounds like a lapse in hotel security to say the least!

 

[jarta]

"it sounds like a lapse in hotel security"

Exactly. And, that's all it is - a lapse. No murder. No rape. Not even an attempted rape. Seems it never got that far.

Unfortunate and could have escalated, but it happens from time to time. And, when it does, the hotel chain pays. Starwood will pay.

No hotel chain has a policy of handing out keys to persons who do not belong in the room. Every hotel chain has procedures to prevent persons from getting into hotel rooms they do not belong in. If the allegations are correct, the procedures failed.

More shocking is that all this happened a year ago at the most prestigious hotel in Helsinki and the man has not been charged criminally.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...unken-pervert-amp-i-m-suing-article-1.1003425 ... eom

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

Epilogue

Epilogue:

Women collects $8 million settlement. Few weeks later, on a dark stormy night, the perpetrator and the women meet at a mountainside cabin in Montana to split up the money. Then they open up an expensive bottle of wine, and carry on the unfinished business from Helsinki.

 

[ondeadlin]

Last year my wife and I stayed at the hotel portion of a Starwood resort that also has timeshares. We were on the first floor. We went out and had a very nice dinner, and when we returned we were locked out of our room. The deadbolt was on.

The staff called someone from engineering, who - as he worked the lock - explained that sometimes this just happens, the door malfunctions and the deadlock triggers.

Thankfully, he was still there putting away his tools when we walked inside and found a 20-year-old woman passed out on our bed in only her panties. She was passed out and very intoxicated.

The engineer immediately called security, who immediately called the manager on duty, who immediately called the manager. They were horrified.

It took security and the manager 10 minutes to get her up and talking.

She claimed she was staying in the hotel and used her key to enter the room. Her clothing was scattered everywhere, from the front door to the bathroom to the window area.

The hotel vehemently denied this could have happened. They bought us drinks and dessert as they changed all the bedding and towels and then the manager came to talk to us. He said they had run an electronic history on the door and it did not show any entry from around 6 p.m. - when we left for dinner - until when we returned. He theorized we had either left the door ajar or left the patio door open (again, because we were on the first floor - to be fair, we never tried the patio door and the previous guest MIGHT have left it unlocked).

But, again, she said she used her room key to enter.

What really happened? Guess we'll never know, but it was certainly a weird deal.

 

[DeniseM]

At the Westin Ka'anapali, on our 2nd trip, we were given the key to a room at check-in and walked in, only to find it occupied, by the rightful guest, who also had a key. They meant to give us the attached studio, and they assigned us to the already occupied 1 bdm. instead.

We did not attempt to get in bed with them.

 

[jarta]

"But, again, she said she used her room key to enter.

What really happened?"

She knew she was in trouble and she lied. ... eom

 

[ondeadlin]

"But, again, she said she used her room key to enter.

What really happened?"

She knew she was in trouble and she lied. ... eom

Jarta, I value your contributions to TUG - and even your determination to challenge others' viewpoint - but man, sometimes you are your own worst enemy. You are stereotyped on the board as someone who will always, right or wrong, take Starwood's side, and here you play right into that stereotype.

She lied? Really?

We both have no idea what the truth is. Maybe she did lie. She may have told the truth. The only thing you or me can say definitively is that we don't know what the truth is.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Thankfully, he was still there putting away his tools when we walked inside and found a 20-year-old woman passed out on our bed in only her panties. She was passed out and very intoxicated.

Being a 31yr old single male....I may have reacted differently then you did

 

[6scoops]

I was in Las Vegas, at Planet Hollywood, someone did use a key to open the door to my room! Luckily for me I always use the chain on the door! I was awake when it happened, it scared the me. I let the front desk know about it in the morning. They claimed to have know Idea who had a key to my room in the middle of the night. I think maybe it was a employee. The person took off, as soon as they realized they couldn't get in. I don't understand why everyone wouldn't use the deadbolt or chain on a hotel door, so many employees have access to room keys, it's scary!

 

[Catira]

Two years ago we went to the Grand Mayan Riviera and then the Mayan Palace Riviera Maya. When we tried to check in for our second week of vacation at the Mayan Palace front desk could not find our reservation. I gave the lady my RCI confirmation and then she said she had found our reservation.

Later that night, at around 2 am my daughter came running to my room claiming someone was trying to open the door to her side of the lock off unit. I tend to always put the door latch and lock the door at night. My daughter had forgotten to lock her door that night.

Sure enough, a woman with her children had keys to the door and the only thing that stopped her from going into the room was that the door latch was on. Immediately called front desk and was informed the computer system had not been updated and they had assigned her our room by mistake!!

 

[DeniseM]

Being a 31yr old single male....I may have reacted differently then you did

Wait - first, you defend the guy who crawls in bed with the unwilling woman, and now you would do the same thing yourself? :hysterical:

 

[Ridewithme38]

Wait - first, you defend the guy who crawls in bed with the unwilling woman, and now you would do the same thing yourself? :hysterical:

'Unwilling' is such a grey area!

 

[jarta]

"You are stereotyped on the board as someone who will always, right or wrong, take Starwood's side, and here you play right into that stereotype."

I was replying to someone who was willing to believe that the woman used her own room key to unlock a locked door, tore off most of her clothes and passed out on the bed. He seemed to doubt Starwood's word that no key was used to electronically unlock that door.

Right now the probable killer from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot, is on trial for killing a 2nd woman in Peru. The evidence against him was provided by the hotel where the murder occurred. The videotape shot in the hall shows both going in together and him leaving alone. The tape also shows nobody else going in or out. Of course, maybe the tape was doctored by the hotel.

Starwood keeps records of the use of electronic keys to unlock a door. Each beep unlocking the door is recorded. If Starwood says the records show no key entry, I certainly can doubt that the drunk lady used her key to open that door. You can believe what you will.

As for the OP on this thread, I have posted (twice) that Starwood likely screwed up and will pay for it. ... eom

 

[Mjpierce]

'Unwilling' is such a grey area!

That you would think that this comment is amusing, or would be amusing to others is disturbing.

However, I've posted things before without fully thinking them through. Everyone puts their foot in their mouth sometimes.

I'm sure that you were not meaning to endorse this type of sad, but historically all to common defense of sexual assault.

I'm sure that you did not think about the fact that your "unwilling is such a grey area" comment was connected to a story about a semi-nude woman drunk and passed out in a bed.

This is a message board for adults, not a frat party.

A simple apology and retraction of this statement would be the polite thing to do.

 

[scrapngen]

Wait - first, you defend the guy who crawls in bed with the unwilling woman, and now you would do the same thing yourself? :hysterical:

'Unwilling' is such a grey area!

and if we look earlier in this thread:

I think the difference in our views is who we perceive is the victim in these cases...99 out of 100 times(made up on the spot) the man accused of rape has done nothing but get involved with a jadded women who believes they are almost required to yell 'sexual assault' at any man that looks at her wrong....the other 1% are the sick-o's who should be dismembered and abused children...Yes i'll grant there are men in jail who have been judged guilty of 'sexual abuses' it is a shame that they were unable to get a good lawyer so they could prove how innocent they were...cases where the man was unable to prove the truth only further the stereotype that women can get away with this behavior

Ride, I think you are hoist by your own petard! Obviously, you think the woman is NEVER a victim - and, well, I think (well, I think a lot of things that I can't say...) you're trying to stir the pot as Denise says, but even you should realise that this is NOT funny.

 

[ampaholic]

'Unwilling' is such a grey area!

Ride, the correct response now is duck and cover.

 

[JudyS]

Ride, if you are joking, you are not funny. And if you are not joking, it's even worse.

First you say that women frequently make up claims of rape, then you imply that if you came across an unconscious woman, you would have sex with her -- which IS rape. And then you add that "consent is a gray area."

Think about it -- you claim that women make "false accusations" all the time, yet you imply that even if a woman is unconscious or didn't give consent, it's still OK for a man to have sex with her. You know what? If a woman says "no" (or is unconscious and doesn't say anything), and a man has sex with her, the woman can report the man for rape and she isn't making a false allegation, because she has, in fact, been raped.

People on this thread had tried to give you graceful opportunities to back down, and instead you have just made worse and worse claims. You are coming very, very close to claiming that men are entitled to rape women, and that women should be punished for reporting being raped. You don't belong on TUG.