Startling news regarding Destination point system [merged]

[suzannesimon]

[2 duplicate threads were merged, which resulted in this post being out of order - it should come after the 2nd post in this thread. - DeniseM Moderator]

If it's true, then it's outrageous. I can't believe it. Don't they need our legacy points to give the Destination Club access to the sold-out resorts?

 

[barbg]

Startling news regarding Destination point system

(this was also posted in the "Poll" section a few minutes ago but I reposted it here since it seems more appropriate as a new thread).

Ok...maybe I'm an idiot and didn't realize this upfront, but we just attended an "update" presentation at the Maui Ocean Club (where we are owners) and had startling news in our presentation. Just so you are clear, we own in Maui and in Kauai (Beach Club). Last year we enrolled in the Destination points program while visiting Maui. Well last week we were in Kauai and attended an "update" presentation and then this week we are in Maui and today attended their "update" presentation. At today's presentation we were told that ONLY TRUST POINTS OWNERS (not enrolled week owners) will be able to use Destination Points in to NEW Marriott timeshare properties!!! Am I the last one to learn this?????? I thought my "enrolled owner" Destination Points would allow me to stay in ANY Marriott timeshare... but today we were told that going forward ALL new Marriott timeshares will only allow Trust Points Owners to book there. This is the THIRD points presentation we have attended (one last year while we were here and two this time) and this is the FIRST presentation to tell us this. They have been pushing in these "update" presentations how critical it is to have "TRUST DEED" destination points. When we expressed shock at this new information limiting which timeshares we can book, our host even offered to reimburse us the $695 enrollment fee that we paid last year because he said they are finding that there was alot of confusion when the program was first explained last year. I came back to my room and have been searching the Marriott website and have found nothing to back this claim so I thought I would post this and see if this is the case. Can someone enlighten me?????? BTW, our presentor also is a legacy weeks owner and said that he wasn't happy about this either but has come to accept this... and he has been selling Marriott timeshares for 10 years so he is not a newbie.

 

[brigechols]

There was a lot of discussion on this board about legacy versus trust points. Here is one thread.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

(this was also posted in the "Poll" section a few minutes ago but I reposted it here since it seems more appropriate as a new thread).

Ok...maybe I'm an idiot and didn't realize this upfront, but we just attended an "update" presentation at the Maui Ocean Club (where we are owners) and had startling news in our presentation. Just so you are clear, we own in Maui and in Kauai (Beach Club). Last year we enrolled in the Destination points program while visiting Maui. Well last week we were in Kauai and attended an "update" presentation and then this week we are in Maui and today attended their "update" presentation. At today's presentation we were told that ONLY TRUST POINTS OWNERS (not enrolled week owners) will be able to use Destination Points in to NEW Marriott timeshare properties!!! Am I the last one to learn this?????? I thought my "enrolled owner" Destination Points would allow me to stay in ANY Marriott timeshare... but today we were told that going forward ALL new Marriott timeshares will only allow Trust Points Owners to book there. This is the THIRD points presentation we have attended (one last year while we were here and two this time) and this is the FIRST presentation to tell us this. They have been pushing in these "update" presentations how critical it is to have "TRUST DEED" destination points. When we expressed shock at this new information limiting which timeshares we can book, our host even offered to reimburse us the $695 enrollment fee that we paid last year because he said they are finding that there was alot of confusion when the program was first explained last year. I came back to my room and have been searching the Marriott website and have found nothing to back this claim so I thought I would post this and see if this is the case. Can someone enlighten me?????? BTW, our presentor also is a legacy weeks owner and said that he wasn't happy about this either but has come to accept this... and he has been selling Marriott timeshares for 10 years so he is not a newbie.

I don't think this is anything new. However I don't think it's anything to worry about with 50 some odd existing properties to select from. Also, I don't see a lot of new properties coming on board (although a lot of chatter).




.

 

[ocdb8r]

(this was also posted in the "Poll" section a few minutes ago but I reposted it here since it seems more appropriate as a new thread).

Ok...maybe I'm an idiot and didn't realize this upfront, but we just attended an "update" presentation at the Maui Ocean Club (where we are owners) and had startling news in our presentation. Just so you are clear, we own in Maui and in Kauai (Beach Club). Last year we enrolled in the Destination points program while visiting Maui. Well last week we were in Kauai and attended an "update" presentation and then this week we are in Maui and today attended their "update" presentation. At today's presentation we were told that ONLY TRUST POINTS OWNERS (not enrolled week owners) will be able to use Destination Points in to NEW Marriott timeshare properties!!! Am I the last one to learn this?????? I thought my "enrolled owner" Destination Points would allow me to stay in ANY Marriott timeshare... but today we were told that going forward ALL new Marriott timeshares will only allow Trust Points Owners to book there. This is the THIRD points presentation we have attended (one last year while we were here and two this time) and this is the FIRST presentation to tell us this. They have been pushing in these "update" presentations how critical it is to have "TRUST DEED" destination points. When we expressed shock at this new information limiting which timeshares we can book, our host even offered to reimburse us the $695 enrollment fee that we paid last year because he said they are finding that there was alot of confusion when the program was first explained last year. I came back to my room and have been searching the Marriott website and have found nothing to back this claim so I thought I would post this and see if this is the case. Can someone enlighten me?????? BTW, our presentor also is a legacy weeks owner and said that he wasn't happy about this either but has come to accept this... and he has been selling Marriott timeshares for 10 years so he is not a newbie.

You know the saying...if the salesperson's lips are moving, they are likely lying. In this case, they twist the truth to try to scare you into buying.

The reality - all new resorts will be 100% owned by the trust (so we assume, ANYthing could happen, but this is the expectation). As a result of being 100% owned by the trust, "enrolled owner" points (to use the term you used) will not be able to access the new trust resorts until Marriott opens up availability based on TRUST POINTS OWNERS trading into non-trust inventory (like the weeks you own and have given up in a given year in exchange for points).

Basically, what is true, is that the TRUST inventory and "enrolled weeks" inventory sits in two separate buckets. When an owner in one bucket wants to access the inventory in another bucket, Marriott must effectively swap inventory between the two buckets. That means there may be times when it is difficult to access 100% TRUST OWNED inventory with points from the "enrolled owner points" bucket.

However, the reality of the situation is this 1) Who knows when there will be a new resort, 2) Once there is, there will be so much inventory at the resort that Marriott will likely freely allow swaps in the new resort just to get it filled, 3) there are likely to be many TRUST POINTS owners trying to access "enrolled weeks" as time goes on and more points are sold....as a result Marriott will have to swap inventories to meet demand.

Now, one real concern I have is that for high demand weeks you are likely only to be successful at reserving within whatever bucket you own in. Marriott is likely to be flexible with inventory at a shorter time notice than we have been used to reserving and with less in demand weeks.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

as a follow up to ocdb8r >

theyre never going to have units where the trust owns all 365 nights.

 

[windje2000]

(this was also posted in the "Poll" section a few minutes ago but I reposted it here since it seems more appropriate as a new thread).

Ok...maybe I'm an idiot and didn't realize this upfront, but we just attended an "update" presentation at the Maui Ocean Club (where we are owners) and had startling news in our presentation. Just so you are clear, we own in Maui and in Kauai (Beach Club). Last year we enrolled in the Destination points program while visiting Maui. Well last week we were in Kauai and attended an "update" presentation and then this week we are in Maui and today attended their "update" presentation. At today's presentation we were told that ONLY TRUST POINTS OWNERS (not enrolled week owners) will be able to use Destination Points in to NEW Marriott timeshare properties!!! Am I the last one to learn this?????? I thought my "enrolled owner" Destination Points would allow me to stay in ANY Marriott timeshare... but today we were told that going forward ALL new Marriott timeshares will only allow Trust Points Owners to book there. This is the THIRD points presentation we have attended (one last year while we were here and two this time) and this is the FIRST presentation to tell us this. They have been pushing in these "update" presentations how critical it is to have "TRUST DEED" destination points. When we expressed shock at this new information limiting which timeshares we can book, our host even offered to reimburse us the $695 enrollment fee that we paid last year because he said they are finding that there was alot of confusion when the program was first explained last year. I came back to my room and have been searching the Marriott website and have found nothing to back this claim so I thought I would post this and see if this is the case. Can someone enlighten me?????? BTW, our presentor also is a legacy weeks owner and said that he wasn't happy about this either but has come to accept this... and he has been selling Marriott timeshares for 10 years so he is not a newbie.

Suppose you own a week at Ocean Watch. If the salesperson said the week you own at Ocean Watch will not entitle you to RESERVE a week at SurfWatch, you'd say of course - I don't own there. I would have to exchange for it.

It is anticipated that the new resorts (believe them when I see them) will be owned by the Trust. You have to exchange your Ocean Watch for them. Same as exchanging Ocean watch for Surfwatch.

Ask the salesperson if the Trust Points owners will be able to RESERVE non trust owned weeks/days at any property.

Answer - no. The Trust Point owners have to exchange for them.

Don't let him pee on your leg and tell you its raining.

 

[dioxide45]

Ummm, do you really expect any new properties any time soon?

 

[Karen G]

(this was also posted in the "Poll" section a few minutes ago but I reposted it here since it seems more appropriate as a new thread).

That other post was deleted as duplicate posts are not allowed. Keep all replies in this thread, please.

 

[l2trade]

First - I think Marriott may add new trust weeks to the system, simply by absorbing other existing resorts & hotel rooms, and/or portions thereof. Look at the recent news with Hilton and westgate ph towers in vegas... I think the Marriott point trust is designed to absorb 'new' locations, without necessarily building anything new.

Second - I am happy to hear a $695 refund was offered. It is my sincere hope that a healthy percentage of owners will stay or go back to weeks only, as I chose for myself, so that exchange choices for all of us weeks owners will remain flexible, diverse and robust. II available Marriott exchange inventory appears to me to be a fraction of what it once was without the level of developer, bulk banks and other deposits.

 

[Ron98GT]

Don't let him pee on your leg and tell you its raining.

:hysterical: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hysterical:

 

[BocaBoy]

You know the saying...if the salesperson's lips are moving, they are likely lying. In this case, they twist the truth to try to scare you into buying.

This is not the modus operandi in Maui. I have found that sales group to be very professional, low-key and honest. I will be in Maui the next two weeks and will be interested to see what is said at the Owners' Update meeting.

 

[ocdb8r]

This is not the modus operandi in Maui. I have found that sales group to be very professional, low-key and honest. I will be in Maui the next two weeks and will be interested to see what is said at the Owners' Update meeting.

Marriott has had quite a bit of turnover in the sales department since the switch over to the points product. While I agree that in the past they have generally been much more on the up and up, there seem to be more and more reports here on Tug of negative sales experiences.

Regardless, what the OP was told was obviously not the whole truth.

 

[Werner Weiss]

At today's presentation we were told that ONLY TRUST POINTS OWNERS (not enrolled week owners) will be able to use Destination Points in to NEW Marriott timeshare properties!!!

Perhaps the salesperson actually believes this to be true. Or perhaps the salesperson knows this isn't true, but thinks such a misrepresentation will make you want to buy Trust points.

In either case, it isn't true.

As ocdb8r noted, the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations program involves two buckets of inventory — Enrolled inventory and Trust inventory. The Destinations program is an exchange program, and inventory can and does move between the two buckets. Trust owners can exchange into Enrolled inventory, which is how Enrolled owners gain access to Trust inventory.

When Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation (the timeshare spin-off) once again builds new Marriott-branded resorts, the inventory will be held by the Trust and sold as Trust points. Trust point owners will want to book vacations not only at resorts that are entirely or primarily held by the Trust, but also at resorts that were sold as weeks, such as the older resorts at Hilton Head, Palm Desert, Hawaii, and Orlando. And Enrolled owners will rightfully expect to continue to have access to the full portfolio of resorts with Destinations points charts.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation would be shooting themselves in the foot if they were to exclude new resorts from the full exchange program. On top of that, they would face legal trouble because no such exclusion is documented in the paperwork.

 

[MALC9990]

Suppose you own a week at Ocean Watch. If the salesperson said the week you own at Ocean Watch will not entitle you to RESERVE a week at SurfWatch, you'd say of course - I don't own there. I would have to exchange for it.

It is anticipated that the new resorts (believe them when I see them) will be owned by the Trust. You have to exchange your Ocean Watch for them. Same as exchanging Ocean watch for Surfwatch.

Ask the salesperson if the Trust Points owners will be able to RESERVE non trust owned weeks/days at any property.

Answer - no. The Trust Point owners have to exchange for them.

Don't let him pee on your leg and tell you its raining.

This is exactly how the Asia Pacific points club works. They have two resorts that can only be reserved using points BUT look on II getaways and you will find that you can get a getaway week almost anytime and for much less than the points MFs for a week would cost you.

Also points owners in MVCIAP are members of II and can deposit and exchange a week booked on points just like any weeks owner!

So the key word here is Exchange, which is what enrolled owners do when using points and what Trust Points owners do when they want to vacation using a week that has been "deposited" for points by an enrolled owner.

 

[GregT]

All,

I'm highly confident that Legacy Points will be able to access any new properties that come into the Marriott system. Having access and having success are very different.

I believe the success of making reservations with Legacy Points will depend on the size of any new property that is introduced to the Trust. If Marriott absorbs a small villa in Tuscany, it may be so highly demanded by Trust Point owners that available space never really falls to Legacy Point owners.

This same phenomenon exists in Starwood, with its prime property Westin St. John. Owners have the ability to utilize StarOptions to book WSJ 8 months out, but WSJ is so well occupied by its owners that reservations are rarely available to non-WSJ owners that want to use points. When there is a Sighting of availabily at WSJ 8 months out, the Starwood board lights up. We may find the same result if Marriott brings in a new property that is modest in size and is sought after by Trust Point owners.

I think we are years away from enough pure Trust Point owners who would realistically absorb all available space -- and this assumes that Marriott is really expanding. Hilton is demonstrating a nice expansion model by merely managing the new properties and letting some third party have the risk/benefits of the development and ownership. Marriott could do the same very easily.

It will be interesting to watch and see how this develops.

Best,

Greg

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

Please also remember that the avg purchase of Trust points is 2K.. Not many pure Trust owners have the requisite points to snag the really good stuff...
There will be plenty of stuff available to us!!!!

 

[Lansdowne]

I agree with the general consensus that Marriott will not be building any new properties real soon so the limitations on the use of Trust Points for the new properties should have minimal impact on future use of Marriott controlled property. The question I have is will any acquired properties by Marriott be accessible only through Trust points?

 

[SueDonJ]

First - I think Marriott may add new trust weeks to the system, simply by absorbing other existing resorts & hotel rooms, and/or portions thereof. Look at the recent news with Hilton and westgate ph towers in vegas... I think the Marriott point trust is designed to absorb 'new' locations, without necessarily building anything new. ...

Like you and others have said, I agree that Marriott doesn't have to build new resorts to add inventory to the Trust. They've said from the beginning of the DC's introduction that they'll be looking for "innovative" ways to "add exciting opportunities" for owners - converting existing hotel space to timeshare units, resulting in mixed-use resorts, is one way that's been mentioned.

Also in agreement with others about the differences between reserving Trust inventory directly as opposed to through the DC Exchange company. I think windje said it best, equating the Trust inventory to a home resort for DC Points owners. When they trade out to Enrolled Weeks, Explorer options or other usage, their inventory becomes available for other usage.

Second - I am happy to hear a $695 refund was offered. It is my sincere hope that a healthy percentage of owners will stay or go back to weeks only, as I chose for myself, so that exchange choices for all of us weeks owners will remain flexible, diverse and robust. II available Marriott exchange inventory appears to me to be a fraction of what it once was without the level of developer, bulk banks and other deposits.

First , I'll be SHOCKED if the OP's $695 enrollment fee from last year is refunded (unless s/he got that in writing when it was said.) There is a mechanism for that refund built in to the Enrollment procedure, but it's the standard legally-required rescission period which has long passed.

Second, every Enrolled owner has the opportunity to "go back to weeks only" by simply not paying the annual DC Club Dues. If an enrollee finds that the DC benefits aren't wanted anymore, s/he simply doesn't pay the annual dues and reverts back to Weeks-only usage. (But if at a later date s/he wants DC benefits again, s/he'll have to pay another enrollment fee.) IMO, though, I think most enrolled owners have had enough success through the first year to at least pay the Club Dues for another year or two.

 

[Cobra1950]

As PT Barnum once said, "this way to the egress!":hysterical:

 

[barbg]

Thanks everyone for the information and analysis. This makes much more reasonable sense. I have to believe there was some salesmanship going on there. I still want to stay with the points because we loved the flexibility it gave us this first year. It gave me more options to get properties that are not available for exchange, for example, I was even able to do a trade and get a 4BR at the Canyons during Sundance only because I had more flexibility to get them the weeks they wanted with my points.

 

[Werner Weiss]

I agree with the general consensus that Marriott will not be building any new properties real soon so the limitations on the use of Trust Points for the new properties should have minimal impact on future use of Marriott controlled property. The question I have is will any acquired properties by Marriott be accessible only through Trust points?

Again, the inability to "reserve" new properties with points from enrolled weeks is either a misunderstanding, fabrication, or "weasel word" explanation on the part of the sales person.

As had been noted in this thread, points from enrolled weeks can't be used to reserve Trust inventory, but can be used to exchange into Trust inventory. In both cases, the same point charts apply. It's a small distinction that's based on the underlying process.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation (the timeshare spin-off) is no longer in the business of selling weeks (except at some non-U.S. locations). Unsold inventory, inventory at any new resorts, and inventory at "any acquired properties" would all be Trust inventory. Trust point owners can reserve into such inventory. Enrolled owners can opt for points and use those points to exchange into such inventory.

 

[SueDonJ]

Again, the inability to "reserve" new properties with points from enrolled weeks is either a misunderstanding, fabrication, or "weasel word" explanation on the part of the sales person.

As had been noted in this thread, points from enrolled weeks can't be used to reserve Trust inventory, but can be used to exchange into Trust inventory. In both cases, the same point charts apply. It's a small distinction that's based on the underlying process.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation (the timeshare spin-off) is no longer in the business of selling weeks (except at some non-U.S. locations). Unsold inventory, inventory at any new resorts, and inventory at "any acquired properties" would all be Trust inventory. Trust point owners can reserve into such inventory. Enrolled owners can opt for points and use those points to exchange into such inventory.

I think what Lansdowne is asking, though, is if Marriott will ever NOT make Trust inventory available through the DC Exchange Company for enrolled Weeks owners? Say a Trust Member exchanges his usage at a Trust property for one of the other options. Marriott can then take an equivalent Trust usage out of that "bucket" and do several things with it - deposit it into the DC Exchange Company "bucket", rent it for cash through marriott.com, hold on to it for Preview stays, use it for other marketing purposes, etc. In other words, there is no requirement that Marriott must make a deposit into the DC Exchange Company when a Trust Member elects other options. What Lansdowne is asking is a possibility, for sure, but I don't think it's a probability. Among the selling features of Trust Points is the history of 40+ successful, existing timeshare resorts, and the ability of Trust Members to exchange into them as well as use their Points for other options. If Marriott doesn't allow Enrolled Weeks Members to use Points at newly-established properties, how many Weeks owners will continue to pay the annual Club Dues for inclusion in a system which so severely limits their participation? Not many, I'd guess, especially as time goes on and more inventory is conveyed to the Trust for Trust Member-use only. That'd result in the Trust Members having severely reduced access to those successful, existing resorts that were played up in the sales process.

So while Marriott could limit new Trust inventory to Trust Members, it doesn't make sense for them to do it because it would inhibit the system they've set up to be successful, for both Trust and Exchange Members.

 

[kjd]

Assuming that Marriott would want to block trust properties from going into the "enrolled bucket", how would anyone know it was happening? Marriott has a lot of freedom to use the units that they manage as they see fit. Several of the timeshares are advertised on their hotel site. Who knows what they are blocking out at any given time?

In convention cities like Orlando and Las Vegas there are weeks that typically sell out every year. There are also other uses for units as hospitality suites or company workplaces during conventions. I don't think there is a realistic way of knowing how these units are used or whether these units are blocked by Marriott or not. The only information is what Marriott puts out.

It really gets down to whether you can reserve the units at a time and place you desire and whether a Marriott timeshare is an acceptable accommodation. If you can't get what you want then you have to take another approach like selling or renting your unit. Or for that matter, accepting less than what you wanted. In spite of what the salesperson told you when you purchased the unit, Marriott doesn't guarantee anything. Not even a parking space.

 

[GregT]

I think what Lansdowne is asking, though, is if Marriott will ever NOT make Trust inventory available through the DC Exchange Company for enrolled Weeks owners?

Assuming that Marriott would want to block trust properties from going into the "enrolled bucket", how would anyone know it was happening?

All,

I don't believe Marriott will block making a reservation with Legacy Points simply because they don't want to fill a Legacy Point request. I do believe they will wait (perhaps awhile) to fill that Legacy Point Waitlist request until they are sure there isn't a Trust Point owner who wants to use Trust Points to fill that same reservation. This may result in a (lengthy) delay in getting a Legacy Point reservation, and may feel like a block to the requesting Legacy Point owner who just wants the reservation.

I had a pretty long conversation about this topic with customer advocacy.

I think, over time, any new properties with limited space will have the practical impact of blocking a scarce property to the Legacy Point owner, because Marriott will delay in matching a Legacy Point Waitlist until they are sure there are no Trust Point requests, and if the property is scarce, there may indeed be enough Trust Point requests to absorb that space before its released to Legacy Point requests.

We TUGgers are accustomed to understanding the intricacies of systems very well. We understand how to maximize trading power within II/RCI, we understand how to play the reservations systems (stringing together 13 month weeks, booking throwaway days to jump 13 months, walking a reservation, buying an atomic clock, etc) and simply put, Marriott's new system doesn't allow any of these advantages, that I've found yet. We are dependent on Marriott and its Waitlist Requests.

Time will tell if the current success rate in making reservations continues, and I think it will. Marriott is still learning about its own system and needs positive reports from owners to perpetutate its sales model.

The best thing they could do now to stimulate point sales is to functionally co-mingle Trust/Legacy Points when making a reservation to remove this hurdle. It could be done (and I've discussed it in a different thread) but I've also learned that what I think is best for Marriott hasn't been what Marriott thinks is best for Marriott. So we'll see what happens in the future.

All the best,

Greg