Should be condemned [Cocoa Palms, Merged]

[Kauai Kid]

Believe I'll send a letter to the editor of the Garden Island Newspaper regarding the Coco Palms property.

Demolish the Coco Palms, it has been an eyesore ever since Iniki hit.

Turn it into a nice park like Lydgate.


Sterling

 

[rifleman69]

Does the county or state have enough money to buy or condemn the property?

 

[DeniseM]

The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property. There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site. Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.

 

[BocaBum99]

I think the eye sore should remain as a constant reminder of how the anti-development policies of Kauai will ultimately result in its comeuppance.

The reason why the property isn't being developed is that county of Kauai planning commission rejected coco palms plans to build a full scale spa on the resort. How stupid is that? They would rather have the ugly place that it is now rather than a renovated resort with a spa.

These same anti-development policies killed the Super Ferry and killed the economy on the island of Molokai.

 

[Kauai Kid]

The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property. There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site. Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.

Sounds like a great idea to me. Lets demolish it with great care and then restore it to its historical significance with special sensitivity to the Hawaiians and their heritage.

As it is now I think that pile of rotting junk and debris is extremely disrespectful to Hawaiians and their Hawaiian history. How'd Coco Palms ever get built in the first place since it is an historical site?

Would be nice to see the commission get off their lemus and do something. Its been what, 10 years since Iniki? I'd be glad to send a contribution so something might get started in my lifetime.

Sterling

 

[DeniseM]

Sterling - It was built back in the day when $$$ ruled over historical value.

 

[BocaBum99]

Sterling - It was built back in the day when $$$ ruled over historical value.

And, it remains as it is today because historical value rules over $$$. Hmm, I wonder which situation was better?

 

[DeniseM]

Historical value gets my vote!

 

[Bob P]

Just took the tour thru the resort last month. The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months. So he said, Hope so.

 

[BocaBum99]

Historical value gets my vote!

Well, then you should be happy at the current state of the resort.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Just took the tour thru the resort last month. The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months. So he said, Hope so.

What resort gave this tour? Perhaps they have some insider information. Perhaps David Walters is planning something new, since he sold out to Wyndham.

 

[Bob P]

The tour was the 4x4 movie tour, so I can't be certain of the facts.

 

[DeniseM]

Here's a report from the Kauai Garden News about the bill they were trying to pass to restore it. It has some of the background info., but it's a year old. It appears to be the most current info.

Here's another one - The History of Cocoa Palms

And here are lots of articles about the chain of events that don't seem to have gotten anywhere, so far.

In this economy, you'd have to be crazy to build a new resort in that spot.

 

[DaveNV]

When I was there last month I heard that a developer was "trying" to restore the place, but trhey were running into all sorts of obstruction from the government. So it sits there, rotting into the ground.

In the same conversation (held with a shop owner in Kapaa) I was told they do weddings and other private ceremonies by appointment on the property (maybe that's at the historical part?) but that Joe Tourist can't just show up and expect to see much beyond a wishful-thinking Elvis sighting. The Jeep tours are probably the only people who get to go on the grounds regularly.

I can't imagine how much money would be required to fix the place, either historically or for the tourist market. And since nothing can be higher than a palm tree, the cost per square foot per acre would be very high.

Dave

 

[Kauai Kid]

Just took the tour thru the resort last month. The tour guide stated that a developer from Princeville has bought the property and a billion dollar revovation is due to start in 12-18 months. So he said, Hope so.

Seems like that is about the same time frame the movie tour folks told us a year ago.

Over the last two weeks, several business owners asked if we were staying in a timeshare. They were grateful for the business we were giving them and said timeshare owners are still coming. It is the luxury hotel customers that are staying away in droves.

Maybe the development, if and when it comes, will be another timeshare and that should help keep the Kauai economy afloat for years and years more. (Seems to me it is on the wrong side of a busy highway). Last week an elderly woman in a Kaapa crosswalk was struck by a car.

Sterling

 

[alanraycole]

Just my opinion and I don't have a Kauai vote...

So this opinion and a buck will get you nothing more than a cup of coffee.

But, here it is anyway... the dead should never take precedence over the living. Even if development involved a cemetery where my grandparents are buried, I wouldn't be against the development. I would only expect for them to be respectfully moved at the developer's expense to a similar place. Sound evil? Would you want to keep your living children and the children of others from pleasure by imposing some never ending restrictions on development of your grave site? Wouldn't you want to move over and make room? I would hope that those who have passed would have been as considerate of the future generations as me.

I know, I know. People revere their ancestors. But, those who do so should consider what their ancestors would probably want for us. The best way to know that is to answer what you would want for your children (not what you might want for yourself).

 

[rifleman69]

The land that the Cocoa Palms was built on is sacred site with historical significance, so it cannot just be developed like any other property. There is a commission on Kauai that deals with such matters and I believe the long-term goal is to restore it as a historical site. Because they want to preserve the original historical site, even demolition with have to be done with great care.

I have no problem with it turning into a historical site, could probably provide quite a few jobs for the economy as well as a tourist trap. Or if they rebuild, that's fine too but just leaving it as is is pretty sad.

 

[Icarus]

I think whatever happens or doesn't happen should and will be up the people of Kauai.

-David

 

[eal]

I think we can all agree that the current state of the Coco Palms is a MAJOR eyesore, and Iniki was in September 1992 for heaven's sake - over 16 years ago!

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

I agree with David. The people of the island should make the decisions. I also agree with Kaui Kid and Denise that the culture of the people in preserving and venerating historical burial sites is a primary concern and should take precedence over $$$ and development. If you want unrestrained financial focus and development, go to Vegas. Hawaii is special, not only because of it's ocean and physical beauty, but because the culture and beliefs of the Hawaiians infuse the islands with many special healing properties.
Liz

 

[DaveNV]

I agree with David. The people of the island should make the decisions. I also agree with Kaui Kid and Denise that the culture of the people in preserving and venerating historical burial sites is a primary concern and should take precedence over $$$ and development. If you want unrestrained financial focus and development, go to Vegas. Hawaii is special, not only because of it's ocean and physical beauty, but because the culture and beliefs of the Hawaiians infuse the islands with many special healing properties.
Liz

Agreed. I saw a bumper sticker there that said, "Without Hawaiians, there is no Aloha."

Dave

 

[alanraycole]

A generic slant against developers is inconsistent with our actions!

Sure everyone has heard stories of the evils of a developer somewhere. But, all are not evil and keep in mind that pragmatically, WE are the developers. They build what they expect the we, the public, will buy (If we don't buy into it, the developers go broke.).

I am speaking for general purposes, not with Coco Palms specifically in mind. I, personally think the Coco Palms is a lousy place for a resort. I, also, am not pushing for unfettered development. After all, I go to Kauai for the beautiful natural surroundings. I love the no higher than the trees rule, especially for Kauai! But, lets call a spade a spade. The bitterness toward developers is really based on selfishness and greed... ironically, exactly what we attribute to developers. It stems from a perhaps unconscious desire to keep the status quo for those who already have theirs. The anti development croud are those who want the place they love to stay just the way it is... but, isn't that practically preventing the masses from enjoying the same?

I, personally, wish for one more timeshare development on Kauai... a lavish Hilton resort on a breathtaking beach (No, the Coco Palms resort doesn't come close to fulfilling that dream.). Then, I want all other development forbidden. Yes, I am just like everyone else... after I get mine, I want everyone else cut off... but, at least I'll admit my selfishness and greed.

Back to the Coco Palms for a minute... yes, it is an eyesore.... and, I can't think of a better use for that particular site than as a park/historical site. But, if the people of Kauai grew in density to the point that Coco Palms was the only practical site for a school or hospital or something else of importance to them, I bet they wouldn't hesitate to plow it under for the development. In other words, I am cynical about the whole historical site ruse. They just want to keep any additional outsiders out. Yes, tourists bring them jobs. But, let's face it, most residents love the tourist dollar, but hate the tourist... not directly, necessarily. After all, I have some Hawaiian friends... so they don't all hate all tourists. But, I don't doubt for a minute that if they found a sound alternative to tourism, they would jump all over it and through us bums out! They are just like all the rest of us... they want to keep the good stuff for themselves. So be it... but lets call it what it is. Yes, there are probably a few true believers in all the mysticism arguments... but, I bet the average Kauaian citizen just wants to keep more outsiders out and signs on to the mysticism rot for cover.

Call me a jerk for calling a spade a spade, but, isn't dishonesty a greater evil than bluntness?

Disclaimer: I am not a developer and have never been directly involved in any development.

 

[travelnut]

I agree with Kauai Kid and Bocca Bum as well as the preervationists. We just returned from Kauai and my husband & I had the same conversation.

Several years ago, a lavish ownership development was planned. The developer opened an office in the Coconut Grove Center with representative apartments, all with granite countertops and granite/marble floors, Viking appliances, imported Italian lighting fixtures for the bathroom. I'm sure glad that we didn't plunk down the $1M+ for a unit (wonder what happened to those that did). The killer issue, as I was told by locals, was not the heritage issue, but some petty issue like location of a spa, or pedestrian bridge over the Hwy, or other minor issue. The County had its chance to get rid of an eyesore and turn it into an income-producing cash "Kau" - Ai! Just think how many tax dollars could be coming in from all those $1M units!

The eyesore surely brings down adjacent property values as well, adding to loss of tax revenue.

Meanwhile the building rots, possibly releasing asbestos, toxics from lead in the plumbing, old paint, etc. and who knows what other toxins in close vicinity to the Wailua Stream and the beach across the road. The mold will require special measures to protect future demolishers.

The owner should be forced to demolish the buildings and clean up the site to eliminate these hazards and protect property balues. In local cities in my area, property owners must maintain their properties to a certain standard and remove non-operative vehicles, junk, overgrown vegetation, repair fences in view of the street, remove sagging rain gutters, etc.

 

[BocaBum99]

Agreed. I saw a bumper sticker there that said, "Without Hawaiians, there is no Aloha."

Dave

As Hawaiians are now learning with tourism down 20% year over year, "Without Tourists, there is no Aloha."

 

[BocaBum99]

Sure everyone has heard stories of the evils of a developer somewhere. But, all are not evil and keep in mind that pragmatically, WE are the developers. They build what they expect the we, the public, will buy (If we don't buy into it, the developers go broke.).

I am speaking for general purposes, not with Coco Palms specifically in mind. I, personally think the Coco Palms is a lousy place for a resort. I, also, am not pushing for unfettered development. After all, I go to Kauai for the beautiful natural surroundings. I love the no higher than the trees rule, especially for Kauai! But, lets call a spade a spade. The bitterness toward developers is really based on selfishness and greed... ironically, exactly what we attribute to developers. It stems from a perhaps unconscious desire to keep the status quo for those who already have theirs. The anti development croud are those who want the place they love to stay just the way it is... but, isn't that practically preventing the masses from enjoying the same?

I, personally, wish for one more timeshare development on Kauai... a lavish Hilton resort on a breathtaking beach (No, the Coco Palms resort doesn't come close to fulfilling that dream.). Then, I want all other development forbidden. Yes, I am just like everyone else... after I get mine, I want everyone else cut off... but, at least I'll admit my selfishness and greed.

Back to the Coco Palms for a minute... yes, it is an eyesore.... and, I can't think of a better use for that particular site than as a park/historical site. But, if the people of Kauai grew in density to the point that Coco Palms was the only practical site for a school or hospital or something else of importance to them, I bet they wouldn't hesitate to plow it under for the development. In other words, I am cynical about the whole historical site ruse. They just want to keep any additional outsiders out. Yes, tourists bring them jobs. But, let's face it, most residents love the tourist dollar, but hate the tourist... not directly, necessarily. After all, I have some Hawaiian friends... so they don't all hate all tourists. But, I don't doubt for a minute that if they found a sound alternative to tourism, they would jump all over it and through us bums out! They are just like all the rest of us... they want to keep the good stuff for themselves. So be it... but lets call it what it is. Yes, there are probably a few true believers in all the mysticism arguments... but, I bet the average Kauaian citizen just wants to keep more outsiders out and signs on to the mysticism rot for cover.

Call me a jerk for calling a spade a spade, but, isn't dishonesty a greater evil than bluntness?

I agree with most of what you've said in this post until you got to immigration. You should just delete that part of your post because it is a controvertial distraction from your main point and could explode into an out of control political discussion about the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.