Shell Island Beach Club No Longer Managed by HGVC

[dvc_john]

Doesn't Casa Ybel have both whole and interval units? Not saying they do, just asking.

I don't know enough about it to know what I think of HGVC as a manager, but I do know the insurance was great in the last hurricane. We had no special assessment fees at all.

Yes, Casa Ybel has 74 2-br units that are timeshare (in 6 buildings), and 40 1-br units (in 5 buildings separate from the timeshare buildings) that are wholey owned. I'm not sure exactly what, if any, the relationship between the wholey owned units and HGVC might be. But I do know that the 2 boards for the timeshare units (3 buildings have 1 board, and 3 buildings have a different board) have nothing to do with the wholey owned units.

And I agree about the insurance. Both Casa Ybel and Sanibel Cottages had excellent coverage for the hurricane damage thru HGVC's insurance.

 

[Seth Nock]

I think it is a seperate board, though. I will check.

 

[ecwinch]

And I agree about the insurance. Both Casa Ybel and Sanibel Cottages had excellent coverage for the hurricane damage thru HGVC's insurance.

This might be more a factor of the relative claims history of the resort. Resorts with any significant claims in the last 10 years, probably were forced into a higher deductible with more exclusions and a coinsurance requirement on renewal. Property coverage rates in coastal areas with wind and flood exposure have increased drastically in the past 10 years. Particularly on older resorts that have less engineering to combat the effects of that those risks.

 

[Seth Nock]

I have been told that Hilton's insurance is better than that of most of the other Timeshare companies'.

 

[timeos2]

It's a volume not a brand thing

I have been told that Hilton's insurance is better than that of most of the other Timeshare companies'.

Unless Hilton is running their own Insurance company (they aren't) they are using a broker and getting the best deals from large insurers just like every other company. The shear size of the business can help lower rates in some cases vs a single resort or two getting their own coverage. Thats most likely where the big savings came from. Others like Marriott, Wyndham and even management groups like VRI should also get those benefits based on volume. The downside can be that loses in FL can have an impact on rates for other resorts in the master plan that are in less disaster prone areas. It is important that all resorts review their coverage every few years and not just assume the group rate is the best. Like everything purchased you have to shop around to assure the best value.

 

[alwysonvac]

The HGVC Shell Island Beach Club website has been updated with the HGVC news

Important Update
As of April 8, 2009, Hilton Grand Vacations Company no longer manages Shell Island Beach Club.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding this news, please contact Hilton Grand Vacations Company

Looks like there was some disagreements regarding roof ponding and insurance claims based on the last owner update provided by HGVC back in November 2008 - see http://www.hgvc.com/shellisland/pages/News.html

From the November 2008 owner update - http://www.hgvc.com/shellisland/pages/Shell Island Letter UPDATED 11.18.08 FOR WEB.pdf

Updates from Your Management Company
Hilton Grand Vacations Company would further like to take this opportunity to provide you with the latest information on two operational issues at your resort:

1. Roof Ponding
Concerns have been raised recently about “ponding” on some of the resort’s timeshare building roofs. Ponding, or the collection of water on a flat roof surface, is a common occurrence in Florida. Water from ponding tends to evaporate relatively quickly, and ponding does not indicate a roof leak. The following background information may be helpful in better understanding this issue:
• The roofs were originally constructed in the early 1980s. They were replaced in November 2003 and a warranty was obtained.
• From August to October 2004, the roofs were damaged by multiple hurricanes. The roofs were then repaired by Murton Roofing Corp. under the applicable insurance policy, and the association covered the cost of the first deductible related to Hurricane Charley. Subsequent hurricanes resulted in other deductibles that were fully paid through insurance coverage and other resources. Later, in May 2005, the City of Sanibel inspected and approved the repaired roofs.
• Murton provided the association with a 2-year warranty on the repaired roof in 2005. In addition to this protection, a 15-year Polyglass warranty was procured on July 6, 2005.
• In the fall of 2005, the roofs were inspected by separate roofing consultants hired by your management company and your Board of Directors. Systems Building Envelope Consultants, Ltd., hired by your management company, inspected the roofs and indicated in a letter dated August 10, 2005, that “overall the roofs are in good order.” The roof consultant hired by your board, A.L. Freedman Company, indicated in a report dated September 8, 2005, that “the roofs are infinitely better than when we first did our initial inspection. They are now good roofs.”
• In late 2007, it was discovered that ponding of water had occurred on some of the timeshare roofs, affecting a small percentage (less than 5 percent) of the roof area. Again, water from ponding evaporates, and inspections by roof consultants have shown there to be no roof leaks at your resort.
• In September 2007, at the end of Murton’s 2-year contractor warranty, we provided your board with a proposal for roof maintenance from Murton. The board considered other proposals for roof maintenance as well, but declined to accept any of the maintenance agreements to this date.
• Your Board of Directors hired roof consultant Scott Bonk to inspect the roofs this year. In a board meeting on April 8, 2008, Mr. Bonk indicated that the cause for the ponding was uncertain, but that “Murton Roofing had proposed installing spill-out scuppers to alleviate ponding, which could be done and may work, but may be not aesthetically pleasing.” The board declined to pursue the installation of scuppers “as it would stain the side of the buildings,” according to the meeting minutes.
• On June 16, 2008, Murton performed repairs to certain roof sections on two of the timeshare buildings at no cost to the association, even though the maintenance warranty had expired several months earlier and has yet to be renewed.
• Letters and reports from the roof consultants are posted on this website.

2. Insurance Claims
At this time, there are no unresolved insurance claims as a result of the multiple hurricanes of 2004. Many properties suffered damage that was not recoverable by insurance. However, most of your resort’s claims were covered. In total, your association received insurance payments of approximately $5 million for covered claims. Below are a few additional facts related to this issue:
• While hurricane-related repairs were being made, your board identified other items it believed should be covered under the insurance. However, the insurance company disallowed the additional items.
• Your Board of Directors sent a letter to the insurance adjuster handling the claim, Crawford Technical Services, the largest independent insurance adjuster in the world, citing the board’s concerns. A Crawford representative then attended the June 2, 2006, board meeting to address the board’s concerns. The minutes show that he disagreed with the board on all points. The letters and meeting minutes cited above are posted on this website.
• After the insurance company covered the applicable expenses, your Board of Directors requested that the additional costs not covered by insurance be paid for by your management company, as the intermediary between the association and the insurance company. Even though many items were in dispute, Hilton Grand Vacations Company was prepared to help pay for some of these items. However, the board declined the offer from your management company.
• The insurance program offered through Hilton Grand Vacations Company is a robust and cost-effective option. Your Board of Directors continues to participate in this insurance program, even after pursuing other insurance coverage options.

 

[Talent312]

Could this be a case of "biting the hand that feeds you," cuz they wanted a ham bone, but were only given a chew-toy instead? What, no ham bone?

 

[jd5504]

HGVC Shell Island New Management

A few days ago I heard SIBC Board of Director's (BOD's) changed management companies. My concern is the way the BOD's did this. No owners were contacted that I know of. If the BOD's did this with recklessness as it may appear to some, I am really concerned about the big decision they made on their own. This is a big decision and I always worry about big decisions made quickly with the possibility of certain groups receiving perks. Hopefully SIBC owners can get together with one voice to at least question the BOD's regarding this process. I sent a letter to the SIBC Board at sibcboard@bigfoot.com protesting this process.
I contacted the HGVC rep on site. Here is part of an email from the HGVC rep on site at SIBC:

If it makes you feel better you can write the BOD's but the way this was done I do not think the BOD's care what you think. If they did, it would not have occurred in this manner. There is a small owners group that is banning together.

I returned from California April 2. On April 3 I learned of the problem and by April 8 the board sent a locksmith after hours to change the office locks. We had April 9 to clear out. The way the management company was treated by the board was not only unprofessional, but insulting to say the least. They even had a security guard posted while we were clearing out. The former Maintenance Man Ken Sandrick came back to help the board and supervise the dismissal of his former work mates of 10 years. They flew him in from Arizona on our dollar. No wonder they threw him a big retirement dinner and gave him $$$ before he left. Again on our dollar and I let him know that when I saw him. I couldn't make all this up if I tried. It was so hurtful.

 

[Talent312]

The Shell Island OA's Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws likely vest authority to contract for management services in the BOD. The Board would otherwise be responsible for management and maintenance, themselves. So it seems that individual owners who disagree with the BOD are SOL, unless enuff of them organize to force a special meeting to replace the BOD, or replace them at the next regular meeting.

I'm guessing that the next step in this drama will be HGVC terminating or non-renewing SIBC's affiliation, casting its HGVC-participants adrift, but that would be a separate issue.

 

[mlsmn]

Here's the email I got from Pres. Bd of Dir and below that my email
-terrible the way they have handled it.
-no regard for the owners -especially the ones that had a relationship with HGVC.

Richard,

The SIBC Board of Directors' e-mail policy with owners is to try to respond within 24 hrs. to any comments. I apologize for the delay. The reason for the delay is that the Association attorneys have demanded confidentiality related to Board member comments. The law firm has requested that e-mail responses to owners be reviewed by them. I am sorry I cannot respond to your questions at the moment.

As you may know, the HGVC management agreement has been terminated for cause as of April 7, 2009, and, today, April 9, 2009, a new management agreement with Kenoyer Real Estate Corporation of Sanibel, a full-service time share management firm, has been approved.

Specific details regarding Kenoyer, the benefits to owners and the SIBC Association as well as insurance information will be communicated with owners very soon.

Kathy Schneider, President
On behalf of the SIBC Board of Directors

-------
In a message dated 4/6/2009 3:49:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, :
Ms. Schneider,

What's going on?
I have to hear about Hilton being dropped as of tomorrow as manager on TUG.

(Saturday (04/04/09) We visited Shell Island Beach Club Resort on Sanibel Island to see what it was like for future reference and to pick up some re-sale information. When I spoke with the Hilton Rep. there, she informed me that as of Tuesday 04/07/09, the resort would no longer be managed by HGVC . She was not sure of particulars but indicated that the HOA had elected not to renew the HGVC contract. I am not sure if this is new news or how it impacts current owners but I thougt I would post it for information. This is the only information that I have.)
----------------------------------------
When was board of directors going to inform us?

Why didn't the owners have a chance to vote on this?
If this happens I for one will be very upset with the board.

I like being with Hilton
I know you had problems with hurricane repair, but if you read both the directors statement and Hilton's theirs sounded more believable.

Please inform all owners about what's going on otherwise it looks like something fishy is going on.

I'm waiting for your answer before I comment on my website ( pointswizard.com ) or TUGbbs.com timeshares users group or timeshareforums.com

 

[Steve]

On the positive side, I used to own a week at Sanibel Beach Club II. While I was an owner, the resort changed management companies. The new company that they hired was Kenoyer Real Estate. It's a locally owned company on Sanibel Island, and I think they did (and do) an excellent job.

I understand the frustration that owners of Shell Island Beach Club feel in regards to the lack of communication from the board and the loss of the Hilton affiliation, but this might not be all bad. Kenoyer is a good company and I suspect that they charge lower fees for their services.

Steve

 

[Bwolf]

I'll support Steve's comments. We almost bought a SBCII managed by Kenoyer. They do well. We stayed at Caribe Beach Resort, also managed by Kenoyer. Very well run.

 

[cavs]

Shell Island Owners Web Site

There is a new website that has been launched by a very involved time share owner at Shelll Island. All owners are being invitied to register on this website. So far there has been a lot of information gathered regarding this withdrawal from HGVC. This is an opportunity for the timeshare owners to stay updated on current events and contact other owners of Shell Island.
http://shellislandbeachclub.ning.com/

 

[timeos2]

Affiliation should not be affected

The Shell Island OA's Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws likely vest authority to contract for management services in the BOD. The Board would otherwise be responsible for management and maintenance, themselves. So it seems that individual owners who disagree with the BOD are SOL, unless enuff of them organize to force a special meeting to replace the BOD, or replace them at the next regular meeting.

I'm guessing that the next step in this drama will be HGVC terminating or non-renewing SIBC's affiliation, casting its HGVC-participants adrift, but that would be a separate issue.

Unless HGVC wants to "punish" resorts / members there is no reason that existing contracts for affiliation cannot continue to be honored (or grandfathered in as it is often called). There could be no new conversions but those that joined HGVC while the resort was under HGVC management would continue to be HGVC members and trade their units / weeks with HGVC. It has been that way for many resorts that have changed management. The whole idea of non-developer based management will continue to grow as resorts age and owners, who pay 100% of the upkeep and operations, look for better value than high overhead systems such as HGVC or Marriott or whoever to handle management.

It should not be a requirement that the resort be managed by group XXX to be part of an affiliation. What if RCI had to manage your resort to be part of the RCI exchange system? Crazy of course but the same idea that HGVC must manage for owners to participate in HGVC. It is just another exchange system affiliation - nothing to do with resort management. Mixing unrelated services leads to higher costs and less value for the annual fee dollar spent. Wise Associations handle things as separate functions. Get a good management. Affiliate with the exchange companies / systems desired. But don't mix the two as one company is seldom the best at both.

 

[JonathanIT]

Unless HGVC wants to "punish" resorts / members there is no reason that existing contracts for affiliation cannot continue to be honored (or grandfathered in as it is often called). There could be no new conversions but those that joined HGVC while the resort was under HGVC management would continue to be HGVC members and trade their units / weeks with HGVC. It has been that way for many resorts that have changed management. The whole idea of non-developer based management will continue to grow as resorts age and owners, who pay 100% of the upkeep and operations, look for better value than high overhead systems such as HGVC or Marriott or whoever to handle management.

It should not be a requirement that the resort be managed by group XXX to be part of an affiliation. What if RCI had to manage your resort to be part of the RCI exchange system? Crazy of course but the same idea that HGVC must manage for owners to participate in HGVC. It is just another exchange system affiliation - nothing to do with resort management. Mixing unrelated services leads to higher costs and less value for the annual fee dollar spent. Wise Associations handle things as separate functions. Get a good management. Affiliate with the exchange companies / systems desired. But don't mix the two as one company is seldom the best at both.

So would other non-owner HGVC members still be able to book into Shell Island for use with HGVC pts?

 

[Sandy VDH]

There are already many resorts that are not managed by Hilton but are part of HGVC points. The Grand Pacific resorts, the Club Intrawest resorts, Sunset Cove Resort, The Fiesta Americana Resorts, and the Explorean Kohunlich are all NOT managed by HGVC but have some units that participate in HGVC.

Now units are likely limited at some of these resorts, so you do not have access to every unit interval, but only those who's owners participate in HGVC. You can only trade into any of these resorts if an owner or management representing the owner makes inventory available. I say management, because likely at the group resorts (GP, CI, FA) someone likely manages the trade balance between the two systems, and it is likely not done on an individual owner level.

 

[ecwinch]

As you may know, the HGVC management agreement has been terminated for cause as of April 7, 2009, and, today, April 9, 2009, a new management agreement with Kenoyer Real Estate Corporation of Sanibel, a full-service time share management firm, has been approved.


She was not sure of particulars but indicated that the HOA had elected not to renew the HGVC contract.

If I was an owner, I would be concerned about which one it was: a non-renewal or a termination for cause.

And given how the transfer occurred (locks changed, security guard posted), it certainly sounds like a termination for cause.

If it was termination for cause, HGVC may have recourse. I would want to make sure that the BOD had a solid legal opinion supporting their action.

And no matter how competent the new mgt company is, you still have to question the BOD taking this action - which clearly has some impact on the owners who valued the relationship with HGVC - without owner input.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Talent312]

Unless HGVC wants to "punish" resorts / members there is no reason that existing contracts for affiliation cannot continue to be honored (or grandfathered in as it is often called).

IMHO, anyone from whom HGVC accepted a membership activation fee has vested interest in the HGVC club, as long as they pay their annual membeship fee. But I'd take odds that Hilton will at least review their affiliation contract with an eye toward refusing new memberships and keeping other HGVC'ers from booking there.

 

[wrxdoug]

"If I was an owner, I would be concerned about which one it was: a non-renewal or a termination for cause." We are week 15 owners at Shell Island and came back yesterday from there where we attended several informal meetings by owners as well as going to the law office where a meeting was being held. It was not non-renewal but supposedly termination for cause. Interestingly enough the board could have non-renewed in December of 2008 but would have had to put it up for member vote. Instead they allowed the contract with HGVC to renew which began Jan. 1, 2009, and proceeded to terminate for cause now which involves legal fees. December they would have had to inform owners and explain as well as put it up for a vote now, of course, they hide behind confidentiality issues due to lawyers. Whatever issues resulted in termination for cause was evident four months ago so this way of handling things by a board that supposedly represents all owners has me very suspicious as to their true intentions. This has me, as an owner, very concerned how they chose to proceed. I was told that two board members who owned wholly owned units had the units for sale and sold them right before this took place. Doug

 

[Seth Nock]

Information I have been given about the board meeting.

1. The board as of the December meeting was made up of 5 whole ownership units and 2 timeshare owners.
( 7 seated board members )
2. Two of the whole ownership members seated had their units up for sale and 1 had a pending contract.

3. Two board members sell and the board now runs with 3 whole owners and 2 timeshare owners.

4. A BOARD of 5 Members Terminate Hilton Management.

5. FACTS. The whole owners only represent 12 units with approximately 660 votes.

6. Timeshare owners represent 44 units with approximately 2,200 votes

7. If this went to vote as it should have by law, there was a good chance that the board would not have been able to pull this off.

 

[timeos2]

7. If this went to vote as it should have by law, there was a good chance that the board would not have been able to pull this off.

There is no Fl law or statute requiring an Owner vote to hire/fire a management company. Unless the resort documents call for that process the Board is within their rights as the legal operator for the owners to change management.

 

[Talent312]

There is no Fl law or statute requiring an Owner vote to hire/fire a management company. Unless the resort documents call for that process the Board is within their rights as the legal operator for the owners to change management.

For the insanely curious, the SIBC Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws are online here: http://www.hgvc.com/shellisland/pages/News.html
Article IV, Section 12, of the Bylaws vests the BOD with the authority to contract for management services. Interestingly, there are also provisions for recall of the directors.

 

[wrxdoug]

Owners need to get involved!

The board for the association does have the right to change management companies but they could have just not renewed with hilton in Dec. 2008 instead they renewed starting Jan. 2009 and proceeded to contact lawyers after they terminated for just cause right after the renewal date. This has been in the works for months so we (owners) made a poor choice by voting board members in who were not up for the challenge it seems. I have to be concerned about judgement if someone enters into a termination of contract for cause with an organization as large as hilton/hgvc without exploring options. They have a reputation to keep and it would be logical they would chose a legal battle over terminating their contract for cause. Not to renew on the other hand, what could they do really legally? That action would be the same result and would be unlikely to result in legal battles. All the factors that would lead to change of management were present in December 2009. Why take an adversary approach only a month or two later and violate a contract with hilton (cause or not) when you could have just not renewed? All owners please check out the site one of the previous posters mentioned to stay updated on current events and contact other owners of Shell Island. Register and read information at http://shellislandbeachclub.ning.com/ We now have a responsibility to stay informed and get involved. Then, decide if these board members are acting in our best interests and vote differently as soon as we can if we decide they are not. We have a great resort with low maintenance fees compared to other sanibel island timeshares (particularly hgvc managed ones) and this may be changed if we owners do not start getting educated and involved.

 

[kter]

I want HGVC

I am a one week owner and like the HGVC option-- in fact it was the only reason I purchased here. I am disgusted with the direction of this board. I first learned of this by getting a letter from a lawyer. No prior notification! If this was all above board why so secretive? Seems to me something this critical should be presented to all owners for input. I thought the place was pretty well maintained and managed. Can someone explain what happened and who was behind this mess? Was it whole owners and not the TS owners?

 

[Seth Nock]

I spoke to Cory from San Francisco Exchange program. He agreed to give all Shell Island Beach club owners a free 3 year Platinum membership in San Francisco Exchange program as well as a $699/ $899 bonus certificate. Any Shell Island Owner interested, please email me sethnock@hotmail.com with your name, address unit owned and week and I will forward it to him to get your membership set up.