Schools reopening or not

[Country Roads]

jabberwocky - I had no idea that you are a foreigner! You have no accent at all!

Careful Denise, your post count is climbing.

 

[jabberwocky]

jabberwocky - I had no idea that you are a foreigner! You have no accent at all!

LOL - Yep - everyone usually thinks I’m from Minnesota

 

[DeniseM]

OOOOOOOH - I see what you mean!

 

[geekette]

I understand where you are coming from BUT what if the pictures being shown had been of a child in the middle of a nasty custody fight where one party did not know where the estranged parent / child had moved to? That is the sort of thing administration is always reminding staff about - and on that front they are correct.
While the video helped make the student's point, it might have put another student in danger. Her commentary (words) should have sufficed..

it was the back of heads.

 

[DeniseM]

Country Roads - That ship has sailed: I have more posts than anyone on TUG!

 

[jabberwocky]

Careful Denise, your post count is climbing.

We don’t want her losing her lead to dioxide45!

But what was this thread about again?

 

[geekette]

I hope CDCwould want to know everything about this case. Kids and teachers were in contact for 4-5 days, 9 of them infected. Where the kids in the same class? Did the infected teachers teach any of those infected students? When did they have symptoms (if any)? How many other students got infected (same class or not). Did their families get infected? How about their friends in their class and their neighborhood? I think we deserve a lot more answers from this incident.

"we" deserve nothing. If your kid was in that school, you have received the relevant info.

I don't expect CDC is terribly interested in one of many schools with early outbreaks. Why this one? Outbreaks all over the country, this is low numbers.

 

[Ken555]

So Ken, tell me - have you always secretly liked Darth Vader better than Luke Skywalker? Have you ever talked to anyone about this?

It started a long, long time ago. Around May 2020.

I'm trying to resist, but it looks like so much fun on the dark side. I look at others here who have been fully engulfed by the dark side and see that they have no issues with advocating evil and insidious goals, and now look to them for guidance.

 

[SueDonJ]

HOWEVER, did she check to make sure any students in her photos were on a do not publish list? Each school has such a list which is supposed to be checked / verified prior to publishing anything that might be seen by the public for the reasons I mentioned above (and others). In this case, I agree the ends justify the means but the rule about not publishing photos / videos of students does have some very valid reasons for existing.

She acknowledged herself that the prohibition against posting pictures of classmates, teachers, administrators to social media earned her the suspension, and that the suspension was lifted before she registered an official complaint to have it rescinded. It was a calculated decision on her part; "good trouble," she called it, and I agree. My first thought when I saw the pic was that she was probably going to get disciplined for it, but at least it was taken from the back of the crowd instead of the front which would have put faces to all the students who weren't practicing social distancing and wearing masks.

... With respect to your point about credentialed experts being vilified, it seems like it wasn't all that long ago when credentialed experts could disagree and, as a result of the disagreement, find ways to further the knowledge in a field. The problem today is this discourse takes place in view of the media, and the process of reconciling differences of opinion on issues (be they medical, financial, economic, social - anything) has become a siege mentality. Much of the media has played a significant role in the race to the intellectual bottom of this process, but the experts and the lay public have not helped either.

The problem I see today is less with the media and more with the people who are conveniently omitting from their opinions/discourse that differences of opinions and changes to the scientific responses are, and always have been, a natural progression of the scientific process. Fauci has been vilified *by every single elected/appointed official in the party which installed him in his position because of his expertise* simply because as the pandemic progressed it belied his first response that masks probably wouldn't help all that much, a response based on the science at the time that airborne transmission wasn't occurring. But that's what we all want, isn't it, for the experts to share science/fact-based opinions as the situation evolves, and for the politicians to let the experts do the *$Y*#&*(*& job that they're put in place to do?!?!

... Finally, I'll pose this to you - if you (the public) are faced with two opposing points of view by the 'experts', what are you supposed to do? Who do you believe? How do you reconcile this?
If COVID-19 has taught us anything, it is that knowledge acquisition is a process - one that takes time to play out. And that runs counter to our demand for knowing everything this instant.

If credentialed experts are offering opposing opinions and suggestions, I expect to be able to hear/read their plain-spoken positions without any interference from politicians who ALWAYS have an agenda. Absent that, which is where we are today (and which is how in my opinion many have decided they want this ***show to play out,) scientists will, for the most part, be civil in their discourse with each other. And I will generally err on the side of caution, so if one tells me to mask up and limit social interactions while another tells me to go sixteen-deep at a bar and not worry about it, you'll find me on my deck with a cup of tea, my phone and a good book.

 

[geekette]

...
Finally, I'll pose this to you - if you (the public) are faced with two opposing points of view by the 'experts', what are you supposed to do? Who do you believe? How do you reconcile this?
If COVID-19 has taught us anything, it is that knowledge acquisition is a process - one that takes time to play out. And that runs counter to our demand for knowing everything this instant.

seek more info. Like I do with anything.

 

[bbodb1]

LOL - Yep - everyone usually thinks I’m from Minnesota

eh?

 

[DeniseM]

Oh, Ken, you big silly! But I'd stop wearing the black pointy hood if I were you!

 

[Ken555]

Oh, Ken, you big silly! But I'd stop wearing the black pointy hood if I were you!

View attachment 24736

Always two, there are. No more. No less. A Master and an apprentice.

 

[bogey21]

Finally, I'll pose this to you - if you (the public) are faced with two opposing points of view by the 'experts', what are you supposed to do? Who do you believe? How do you reconcile this?

In my opinion you can't. You just make the best decision you can based on your knowledge of the local situation...

George

 

[SueDonJ]

right, and 'they also say - if only we lived in a socialist welfare state like Sweden where people have government run healthcare and high taxes and don't wear masks
Their intentions are clear

Newsflash: we do live in a "socialist welfare state." Our taxes pay for roads; public transportation; medical coverage for our seniors and others with debilitating conditions; housing and food for those who can't afford it themselves; schools and libraries; public defense - locally, statewide, nationally and internationally; the interest on the out-of-control national debt; etc etc etc. If you don't partake of any of that you can certainly feel free to insult the rest of us with your not-so-veiled derision of "welfare," but I'm pretty sure you do so you can save your derision.

As for Sweden, they're among the happiest people on Earth so they must be doing something right. Today, this minute? From where I sit there are far too many unhappy people in this country who could take a lesson from them, instead of choosing to spread their unhappiness as easily as they're spreading the plague.

 

[cman]

You used the alleged death threat to make an argument but you and SueDonJ actually score a point in the opposite direction. If we live in a highly contentious world, even more reasons for that mother to try to talk first to the administrators of the school rather than be on twitter. Also, I do not think she has done her daughter a favor in the long term. But does that matter? She got her minute of fame NOW.

There is public domain and public domain. A lot of politicians, sometimes actors or musicians have received deaths threats because there are always people who are nuts and the notoriety makes it easier for them to fixate on you. Dr Fauci was known in some circles but he was just a regular public servant until few months ago (Google trends); John Lennon did not close down half of the country but he got shot, his assassin said that that he was angered by Lennon's lifestyle and public statements (!?), go figure.
The Swedish top doctor also received death threats, this is unfortunately how it works.

Loved and loathed, Sweden's anti-lockdown architect is unrepentant

As the architect of Sweden's unorthodox response to the coronavirus pandemic, Anders Tegnell has got used to receiving death threats and being urged to resign.

www.reuters.com

The doctor who prescribes and studies a certain drug also received death threats, the list is endless.

Esteemed French Dr. Didier Raoult Testifies Person Behind Death Threats He Received Is Top Doctor Linked to Gilead Pharmaceuticals | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Way back in late March Laura Ingraham reported on the latest study by the French research team led by the renowned epidemiologist Dr.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

View attachment 24722

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but you're starting to come off a delusional. The constant references to "Sweden", the fact that you would spend so much time researching to counter a minimal point of another poster, is not normal behavior. My take on you is that you have arrived at some predetermined position, and will stand by it even in the face of actual facts. This Sweden thing you've been on is a perfect example. Sweden is not doing well. Every available metric clearly points that out. Even when provided with factual information, your tactic is to attack the presenters. Delusional people don't know that they're delusional. But my guess is that this is not the first time someone has described you in such terms.

 

[DeniseM]

cman - Would you like to contribute to Danny's GoFundMe Account? We're going to help him.

 

[Brett]

Newsflash: we do live in a "socialist welfare state." Our taxes pay for roads; public transportation; medical coverage for our seniors and others with debilitating conditions; housing and food for those who can't afford it themselves; schools and libraries; public defense - locally, statewide, nationally and internationally; the interest on the out-of-control national debt; etc etc etc. If you don't partake of any of that you can certainly feel free to insult the rest of us with your not-so-veiled derision of "welfare," but I'm pretty sure you do so you can save your derision.

As for Sweden, they're among the happiest people on Earth so they must be doing something right. Today, this minute? From where I sit there are far too many unhappy people in this country who could take a lesson from them, instead of choosing to spread their unhappiness as easily as they're spreading the plague.

OK Tuggers - When you see HAPPY HIJACK - that is the signal!

OK, I'll bite. ---- definitely against my better judgement

From the official Sweden government website -

Work–life balance | sweden.se

In Sweden, it's possible to combine career with family life. Gender-equal and family-friendly solutions help facilitate everyday life.

sweden.se

"Everyone knows that Swedes pay a lot of taxes" ... why?

 

[Cornell]

One of the few school districts in the Chicago area that is offering some form of in-person school. I post this b/c ...

"Last month, health officials said 73 people had tested positive for COVID-19 as part of a Lake Zurich-area outbreak that led to the cancellation of sports camps at Lake Zurich High School in early July."

Lots of school districts in the Chicago area used this ^^^ outbreak as a justification to keep schools closed this fall.

Yet, the district is offering in person learning and only 28% of the high school students have chosen the fully remote option.

Most Lake Zurich 95 students have signed up for in-person classes this fall

About two-thirds of students in Lake Zurich Unit School District 95 will spend at least part of their time in classrooms this fall, according to district officials working to develop safety precautio...

www.dailyherald.com

 

[MULTIZ321]

How widespread is COVID-19 in children?
A look at the latest data as schools reopen.

How widespread is COVID-19 in children? A look at the latest data as schools reopen

As schools across the country start to reopen, recent data shows that COVID-19 infection is on the rise in children.

abcnews.go.com

.


Richard

 

[TravelTime]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/schools-colleges-covid-reopen/2020/08/09/44a78044-d826-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_schoolchaos610pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

It’s going to be screen time all the time for kindergartners and graduate students alike. Teachers are threatening strikes. And students are already coming home with covid-19, the disease that has upended American education.

The 2020-2021 school year has dawned and it’s more chaotic than any before.

Plans are changing so fast that students and parents can hardly keep up. Districts that spent all summer planning hybrid systems, in which children would be in school part of the week, ditched them as coronavirus cases surged. Universities changed their teaching models, their start dates and their rules for housing, all with scant notice.......

 

[TravelTime]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-college-towns-and-neighborhoods-permanent-residents-brace-for-students-return/2020/08/09/f4fdfc50-d760-11ea-9c3b-dfc394c03988_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_collegevirus337pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

Christy Dollymore is livid.

After a quiet summer spent in the seclusion of her College Park, Md., home, Dollymore is getting more neighbors. They’re students, enrolled at the University of Maryland’s flagship campus half a mile away, and they’re moving into the apartments and group homes that surround the school.

Dollymore, a 61-year-old retired critical care technician, lives on a tree-lined street in the suburbs. It’s not abnormal for her to have college-aged neighbors, but she has a compromised immune system. Her husband nearly died of influenza A, a type of flu, last year, and her 36-year-old daughter is recovering from malignant melanoma, she said.
“We have three highly compromised people in my house,” Dollymore said. “Where am I supposed to go to the grocery store?”

Although most — and in many cases, all — of their classes will be held online, students at District-area universities are still flocking to neighborhoods in and around the city, stoking fears — and questions — of permanent residents who are anxious about young people spreading the novel coronavirus.

“They’re already drinking, maskless, downtown. No one cares,” Dollymore said.........

 

[TravelTime]

I have 2 clients who are in college. One goes to school in the Bay Area and will be living with a bunch of friends in Tahoe to do online school. Another attends school in Boston and will be returning to live near school while he does online classes. He misses his friends and wants to get out of his house again.

 

[bbodb1]

The problem I see today is less with the media and more with the people who are conveniently omitting from their opinions/discourse that differences of opinions and changes to the scientific responses are, and always have been, a natural progression of the scientific process.

To this point, I would offer that the media plays a very significant role in the polarization process. If the media were truly neutral in their approach to reporting, people might be more inclined to consume the news (or research) on a subject and think on their own. Having said that, it has also become hard to trust research when the influences behind some research efforts want a certain observation, outcome or result produced. The well of information has been poisoned.

Fauci has been vilified *by every single elected/appointed official in the party which installed him in his position because of his expertise* simply because as the pandemic progressed it belied his first response that masks probably wouldn't help all that much, a response based on the science at the time that airborne transmission wasn't occurring.

This goes back to my earlier point on how we (the public in general but also government as well) want the information it wants, right now (if not yesterday), and it has to be absolutely spot on factual from the moment it is first uttered. This phenomena did not start recently. It should also be noted this statement is not entirely correct because "by every single elected/appointed official in the party which installed him in his position because of his expertise" would include the Governor of Arkansas who has only spoken highly of Dr. Fauci.

Nonetheless, the scientific process has been corrupted by political and corporate influences. I don't see how that genie can easiily be put back in the bottle.

But that's what we all want, isn't it, for the experts to share science/fact-based opinions as the situation evolves, and for the politicians to let the experts do the *$Y*#&*(*& job that they're put in place to do?!?!

Yes, assuming the experts and the research process are free from bias. But that, sadly, is an ideal type it seems.

If credentialed experts are offering opposing opinions and suggestions, I expect to be able to hear/read their plain-spoken positions without any interference from politicians who ALWAYS have an agenda.

Agreed. This is how it should be. Science should only be limited by safety, ethical, and moral considerations. It should be free from the influences mentioned above.

Absent that, which is where we are today (and which is how in my opinion many have decided they want this ***show to play out,) scientists will, for the most part, be civil in their discourse with each other. And I will generally err on the side of caution, so if one tells me to mask up and limit social interactions while another tells me to go sixteen-deep at a bar and not worry about it, you'll find me on my deck with a cup of tea, my phone and a good book.

As things sit today, I have lost all confidence in politicians to do anything in the public interest unless those efforts or decisions align with the wants and needs of the power elites. COVID-19 has (among other things) shined a bright light on the seedy under belly of politics. It isn't pretty.

 

[DannyTS]

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but you're starting to come off a delusional. The constant references to "Sweden", the fact that you would spend so much time researching to counter a minimal point of another poster, is not normal behavior. My take on you is that you have arrived at some predetermined position, and will stand by it even in the face of actual facts. This Sweden thing you've been on is a perfect example. Sweden is not doing well. Every available metric clearly points that out. Even when provided with factual information, your tactic is to attack the presenters. Delusional people don't know that they're delusional. But my guess is that this is not the first time someone has described you in such terms.

Your message may come across as more coherent if you did not accuse me of attacking others while viciously attacking me throughout the exact same comment. You used the word delusional 3 times, twice in the same sentence, that is very creative, I will have to admit it.

Yes, we do not agree on Sweden. My point is that they were served with a very bad hand but they have been doing well overall once you realize the worst part was right at the beginning and a lock down would have not changed much in the number of deaths in the first 2 months. I have presented the data to support it and people can judge for themselves. I think every time you hear the word Sweden your blood pressure goes up. Is it because the information I provided was wrong, as you claim? Or is it because deep inside your mind you just do not want them to do better than others that have taken draconian measures? In a way, my "obsession" with Sweden seems to be matched by and equal force from those that oppose their approach. Is that not obsession as well?

I keep on going back to Sweden not because I am obsessed with their meatballs, their canned reindeer meat or their chief epidemiologist but because we have a live example of what works and what does not work in a system that did not shut down the economy and kept the schools open and still managed to reduce the number of deaths constantly since their peak on April 9th. You are not curious about it. I get that. Does that justify calling names? No, I do not take it the wrong way, I just read what you write.

Bonus: you seem to like the word delusional quite a bit.