Sales Harassment at Vidanta

[RussellSun]

Many people complain about feeling harassed and insulted at the sales presentations at the Vidanta. How many Tuggers have felt this way? Can you share your stories?

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

We have done 4 presentations since buying in 2006 .
2010- Mazatlan ; 2011,2012 , 2016 Nuevo .

IMO - we were never harassed or insulted .
There is always sales pressure during the sit down ( 90 minutes ) in the closing room .

In 2012 , it was the I-pad with the chart showing how much we would owe in reno fees and renewal fees , if we did not upgrade . It used the “ Vida math “that includes the 5th phantom reno fee etc. ( I have a 25 year to renewal contract )

In 2016 - we were told that sales would not spent marketing dollars ( ie cash pesos & free cabs back to the airport etc ) since we had turned down 4 upgrade offers . I considered that a good business decision on their part , and certainly was not insulted . ( IMO - it was a compliment )

I have read most of the TUG threads on Grupo Vidanta - Mayan , and their sales arm Vida Vacations .
There have been a few that likely showed a severe lack of class on the salesperson or sales manager.

It happens in life in general , and (likely) has occurred at ever TS sales room in existence .

 

[Eric B]

I do not. I've attended one sales presentation and one upgrade presentation at Vidanta Nuevo Vallarta and came away feeling that I was treated with as much mutual respect and deference as one can expect in a timeshare (or RTU) presentation. The sales force was persistent and a bit loose with elements of the truth, but those items struck me as falling closer to the side of puffery that one can expect in a sales presentation of this sort. The specific items were the usefulness of Vida dollars in the Vida Lifestyle program, the value of the Ambassador Certificates, and the value granted towards the purchase for "trading in" equity in a different timeshare.

In the discussion of the Vida dollars and the Vida Lifestyle (VL) program, the sales personnel showed us the web site for VL and I noted it was using uniform resource locator (URL) addresses that were very similar to the ones used in the Resort Condominiums International (RCI) affiliated travel program, where a member can use savings dollars towards the purchase of travel arrangements in a manner that greatly resembles the use of the Vida dollars. I don't get much value from the RCI savings dollars, though I do collect my restaurant.com certificate from there once a month and save $25/month on dining out. Of course, there isn't a parallel availability for those in VL, but once you become familiar with the program you can find value in it for traveling efficiently and saving some expenses.

I haven't used the Ambassador certificates yet, though I did give one to someone that was looking for a Vidanta rental next year in the TUG marketplace. I've noted that many people advertise them on eBay and might start listing them there, but don't really put a lot of value in them and didn't truly take them into account in deciding to join Vidanta.

I timeshare "trade in" portion of the transaction was the least honest of the lot and have posted my observations on it elsewhere. I don't believe that the agreement form they use is a binding contract and there are significant issues with the whole idea that an organization that is in business to make money would put any value on a resale timeshare. Bottom line is that I declined to go forward with that during my initial purchase and had Vidanta void that aspect of the transaction, which they were happy to do so for us. Oddly enough, they insisted on writing up some trade in forms and voiding them to justify the purchase price for our latest upgrade as well. I still don't know what that's all about.

I will be happy to attend future sales/upgrade presentations there in the future, when I have the time I can spare during a week of vacation. I've read some folks on TUG that found their treatment objectionable, but haven't had such an experience with Vidanta to date. If and when such an event occurs, I believe I am at the appropriate point in my life to decide to just walk out on that sales member. My experience with the Member Services folks and the hotel side leads me to believe that if it were to happen to me and I were to complain to them, they would likely grant me the 10% discount on room charges typically offered for a sales presentation if I were to complain to them.

So far, I have enjoyed every trip to a Vidanta property and look forward to returning. I greatly value reading other people's experiences with the organization here on TUG in order to better maximize my use of their resorts, which I quite like.

 

[bobpark56]

We were harassed very badly on our first visit...lots of pressure and they just would not let us go. It was our worst sales experience ever, and we have been to many. On our 2nd visit, the boss was pushy, but our sales rep was honest and respectful. I wonder if he still has a job there.

Also, Vidanta did not deliver on all the gifts we were promised for attending...other than the cash discount on purchases.

 

[pianoetudes]

Vidanta did not deliver on all the gifts we were promised for attending

Any promised gifts must be in writing. This is a general rule, not just for Vidanta presentation. You should have a piece of paper as confirmation of the appointment. Ask the employee to clearly write the promised gifts in that paper.

 

[Eric B]

Any promised gifts must be in writing. This is a general rule, not just for Vidanta presentation. You should have a piece of paper as confirmation of the appointment. Ask the employee to clearly write the promised gifts in that paper.

My experience with Vidanta is that they are quite good about complying with their written obligations. Bottom line is that if something is important to you, get it in writing. Vidanta is one of the few organizations that looks outside of the four corners of the contract and honors addenda, which typically won’t transfers with the contract, though I suppose that might be negotiable, too.

 

[mikenk]

I have attended these many time over the years. They have ranged from moderately enjoyable to totally obnoxious depending on the Sales person. The presentations always have some parts that are informational and some parts that are typical high pressure sales tactics with some sort of an agenda for you to buy - get more time, get better status, yada yada. I am always open to changes but it takes way too long to separate the wheat from the chaff. Twice I have bought, rescinded, and then negotiated. If you choose to upgrade, be prepared to spend significant time fixing the promises that did not make it into the contract.

On the good side, the written contract and the addenda are honored to the tee. The verbal promises from the sales people are totally bogus unless they make it into the contract. The two parts of ownership that are really not protected by the contact are room availability and room assignment. I do worry about the fairness of the company in these matters. The sales department should have zero input in either room availability or room assignment.

I doubt if I will attend future upgrade meetings as it seems more and more they are focused on "Upgrade to a new status or got poor room assignments in the future" which is really a form of extortion. While I might upgrade to get more contractual goodies - never on the vague threat of poor room assignments.

Mike

 

[RussellSun]

I have attended these many time over the years. They have ranged from moderately enjoyable to totally obnoxious depending on the Sales person. The presentations always have some parts that are informational and some parts that are typical high pressure sales tactics with some sort of an agenda for you to buy - get more time, get better status, yada yada. I am always open to changes but it takes way too long to separate the wheat from the chaff. Twice I have bought, rescinded, and then negotiated. If you choose to upgrade, be prepared to spend significant time fixing the promises that did not make it into the contract.

On the good side, the written contract and the addenda are honored to the tee. The verbal promises from the sales people are totally bogus unless they make it into the contract. The two parts of ownership that are really not protected by the contact are room availability and room assignment. I do worry about the fairness of the company in these matters. The sales department should have zero input in either room availability or room assignment.

I doubt if I will attend future upgrade meetings as it seems more and more they are focused on "Upgrade to a new status or got poor room assignments in the future" which is really a form of extortion. While I might upgrade to get more contractual goodies - never on the vague threat of poor room assignments.

Mike

There are several parts of the sales abuse and harassment at Vidanta:
1) Stalking owners in the lobby when you arrive and constant calls in the room
2) Insulting you when you don't buy
3) What you mentioned: "Upgrade to a new status or get poor room assignments in the future which is really a form of extortion." (your words)

 

[mikenk]

There are several parts of the sales abuse and harassment at Vidanta:
1) Stalking owners in the lobby when you arrive and constant calls in the room
2) Insulting you when you don't buy
3) What you mentioned: "Upgrade to a new status or get poor room assignments in the future" which is really a form of extortion.

I really don't have a problem with 1) or 2).

On 1). it is a part of the checkin process: The friendly lady offers something for us to do the update and schedules a time. Usually I attend; the last time, I refused. I did get one follow up call a couple of days later and refused again - never received another call. Certainly no constant calls.

On 2), Yeah, with the obnoxious ones, we might have ended on bad terms - but doesn't really bother me; just part of the game. A couple of times, my wife thought I was a little insulting to them; I thanked her.

 

[Eric B]

All three seem to be common threads in many timeshares, not just Vidanta. There’s a current thread in the Wyndham Vacation Resorts area titled “Avoided Parking Pass Nonsense” in which other TUGGERS are sharing similar experiences and tips on how they avoid these issues or deal with them. My thoughts on these ones and how I deal with them:

1) as others have said, I don’t mind attending the presentations in particular in order to understand current plans for enhancements to the resorts, which I gladly share information on here. At other resorts I have stayed for only a few days and declined to attend without it being an issue. I’ve read postings by a number of folks here that unplug their phones to avoid calls after declining to attend; I’ve never had any other calls in my room there except those from sales, so believe that would be a good approach. If it came down to it, I would try contacting member services and asking them to have the sales staff cease contacting me during a stay. That might work.

2. Sales people, I hate to say it, are human, too, and some handle the disappointment of not selling worse than others. They’ve got a fairly standard playbook for dealing with customers that typically includes establishing a rapport by holding conversations, etc. You can use those techniques to your own advantage and learn things about the local area and things to do that are unrelated to the sales discussion, or whatever you want to talk about. The nice thing about attending these at a place you’re familiar with is that you can always get up and leave.

3. I’ve tried to learn the lay of the land well enough to manage the sales staff ability to diminish my vacation through the room assignment process. There are certain room types with unique locations that they wouldn’t be able to assign you poorly in without changing the room type. Of course, I’m pretty flexible on what the view from my room is; the room assignment doesn’t really affect what other amenities I can enjoy at the resort (e.g., the pools & beach). Bottom line for me is that I’m not going to let anyone pee in my wheaties and ruin my vacations when even the worst GL room is pretty darn nice.

Have you come up with any coping strategies for these 3 issues that would enable you to enjoy a stay there? I’d hate to think that it’s impossible given the amenities available and the location.

 

[mikenk]

Nice post Eric.

If we allow the sales process and room assignments to fundamentally interfere with our vacation fun, then we need to learn to cope better. I have spent 2-3 weeks a year for the past 10 years at the Vidanta properties; the facilities are top notch as is the staff. We have gotten great rooms and not so great over the years but didn't really keep me and family from great times. I must admit this last trip did get to me a bit when I felt we were being treated unfairly.

Sometimes it helps just to keep things in perspective. Years ago at a swim up bar at happy hour, I was talking with 3 or 4 owners. All had bought retail at a high price and with high sales pressure; they were all laughing about it and sharing their war stories. Except for one guy, they all knew they had paid too much - but they didn't care as they loved the vacations. Sometimes we regulars on TUG take this stuff too seriously. These are great resorts.

That said, Vidanta management still needs to get Sales out of any say in resort operations.

Mike

 

[Eric B]

Thanks, Mike. Frankly, I’m ok with sales having some say in things when I’m exchanging in; I view that as me taking advantage of the weeks they’re making available for getting sales prospects anyway in order to get a less expensive stay. On the other hand, they should keep their hands off when I’m paying full freight for a usage fee, including privilege weeks booked through SFX, which they offer as sales inducements and control. Fair is fair, but I’m not going to let it ruin my mood.

R/Eric

 

[mikenk]

Thanks, Mike. Frankly, I’m ok with sales having some say in things when I’m exchanging in; I view that as me taking advantage of the weeks they’re making available for getting sales prospects anyway in order to get a less expensive stay. On the other hand, they should keep their hands off when I’m paying full freight for a usage fee, including privilege weeks booked through SFX, which they offer as sales inducements and control. Fair is fair, but I’m not going to let it ruin my mood.

R/Eric

I'm fine with Vidanta Management releasing inventory for exchangers or even for hotel use as long as they leave inventory for expected owners. They should have plenty of data to make the decision of how much to release and when - but sales should have no input as they will prefer owners to take the back seat.

Likewise, Sales should have absolutely no say as to room assignments. That should be a firm policy of owners first and then exchangers - no if, ands, or buts. I'm sure even all the exchangers would expect that owners should get preference; I would also suspect that any exchanger realizing owners do not get preferential treatment would not even consider ownership. What would be the value of owning?

Mike

 

[Eric B]

Good points. I’d just say I’m less annoyed about it on exchanges than otherwise.

 

[geist1223]

I do not know what Vidanta offers as an incentive to attend the sales pitch when staying at a Vidanta Resort but in May 2016 when we were staying at Solaris we got $400 USA to attend. We wanted Pesos so we negotiated the Exchange Rate. It ended up being 18 or 19 Pesos to 1 USA Dollar.

I have always want to attend the Vidanta Sales Pitch that they offer to citizens of Mexico and Latin America to see what they offer them at what price but unfortunately I have only a USA passport.

 

[Eric B]

What I understand is their standard offer for folks staying at one of the Vidanta resorts is a 10% discount on charges to the room, a privileged card that gets some discounts at their restaurants, etc., taxi fare back to the airport at the end of your stay, and preferential room assignment as you’re checking in. Not sure if anyone has gotten anything else; they also offered tour discounts, but I don’t know how much the discounts were since we didn’t do any tours. Someone out in town offered us a few hundred $ US to go to the Vidanta pitch, but gave up when we told them we were staying at the Mayan Palace in the Marina and already going.

Speaking with a couple of Mexican nationals staying there last time we were there in NV, the weeks they were staying on were for the lower seasons (for gringos, anyway). They were on their mother’s week so didn’t know what they cost or the usage fees; we didn’t actually ask because they were pretty plowed.

 

[rpennisi]

...That should be a firm policy of owners first and then exchangers - no if, ands, or buts. I'm sure even all the exchangers would expect that owners should get preference; I would also suspect that any exchanger realizing owners do not get preferential treatment would not even consider ownership. What would be the value of owning?

Mike

As an MP owner exchanging into GM, GB and GL I totally agree. Why should I get preference over those owners of GM, GB and GL?

 

[pittle]

As an MP owner exchanging into GM, GB and GL I totally agree. Why should I get preference over those owners of GM, GB and GL?

I totally agree. But, when they immediately acknowledge that you are an owner and will not be allowed higher floors or ocean views if you do not attend the update, that is different.

Had we not had so much noise outside out patio that we could not go out there or sleep at night, it was a problem for us - especially since the resort was only at about 50% occupancy. We were very upfront that we did not expect an ocean view unit, just one that did not have A/C and Laundry vents right below us. Also the fact that I had issues with the air freshener - I have fragrance allergies. We spent our first day and a half outside so that I did not have to smell it until we went to the unit. the Lock-Out bedroom did not have that smell, so we stayed in it. The unit they moved us to on Monday had no air fresheners

 

[RussellSun]

x

 

[Eric B]

Russell,

I am quite happy that I ultimately found and joined TUG because I truly appreciate their core mission of sharing information and advice on making good use of timeshares. They do a great job of educating non-timeshare owners as well. The resale resource they provide is a fabulous added benefit. I don’t believe that any of us are trying to enable any harassment by developers and sales staff; to the contrary, the impression I have is that we are sharing useful information that can allow us to deal with the situations we find ourselves in.

I have had the good fortune of not experiencing anywhere near the negative stay you seem to have had. I do, however, recognize that I spent a lot of money for the right to use the Vidanta resorts and I would fall into the category of people that wouldn’t recommend buying them to my friends and family. I consider it a personal value judgement that I made and don’t see much to gain by revisiting my decisions that I cannot change and stirring up regrets. I would prefer to figure out how to have enjoyable vacations in the future instead; that is why I, and many others, share information here.

It may be that you are contemplating some legal or regulatory action in response to the situation you are in. That’s an acceptable response to the situation and may or may not get you some resolution. Not being licensed in Mexico, I can’t express an opinion on the situation, particularly in the absence of a fully developed set of facts. The impression I have is that they do a good job of following their contractual obligations and give you plenty of opportunity to read the contracts before executing them. If you are seeking to drum up others to join in that type of action, it would be better to be up front about it. I’m not sure what TUG’s policy on that sort of thing is, but there may be other more appropriate forums for that.

If you just want to vent, that’s fine, too. We’d be better off doing it over a refreshing beverage, though. I’m aware of the vast litany of complaints about the high pressure sales tactics at Vidanta on Aimfaire, Trip Advisor, RCI reviews, etc. I don’t view anything I’ve read here or posted as enabling those tactics, but instead as attempting to equip fellow TUGGERs to deal with them. I expect that in the end I’ll be better able to issues because of the “war stories” I’ve heard; I hope that others will feel the same about my “war stories.” (I do have actual war stories as well, but those are also better over a refreshing beverage.)

 

[rpennisi]

TUG is education.
The more you learn, the better you are able to deal with timeshare solutions and usage.
Russell, you have made a complete 180 from your initial posts about Vidanta, almost all because of one bad GM unit and perceived harassment by check in staff.
Dealing with check in staff is similar to dealing with the "shark tanks" of folks at the airport. They have similar wants.
You learn to deal with them by not encouraging them at the airport or at the resorts...same thing, same technique...just say "no".

 

[RussellSun]

x

 

[RussellSun]

x

 

[tschwa2]

If you want to start a law suit over your harassment at a Mexican timeshare - good luck with that. If doing so wouldn't be completely a case of throwing a lot more good money after bad, there would be recommendations to do so. As it is the General Recommendation is DO NOT ATTEND A SALES PRESENTATION, ESPECIALLY ONE IN MEXICO. If you want to ignore that advice- Do not go into one without understanding as much as possible and knowing how to rescind if you end up signing up.

For every one report of a not so bad sales tour, there are 20 saying they are bad. Harassment isn't ok but most don't have the where with all to fight it in another country, with different laws and a different language. If you have ignored the advice not to attend a sales presentation and have been harassed and have the where with all to fight then do it and let us know how it went. You and many others have done what they could to warn others here so no need to keep re-hashing the same thing over and over.

In my limited experienced most grand luxxe owners who bought after several upgrades and have the addendums they want in their contracts and want to stay at grand luxxe on a regular basis are happy with the purchase. They may not be able to justify the money spent other than its there money and they wanted this particular luxury purchase. Maybe that's why Vida doesn't offer the grand luxxe to most non owners and offer it mainly as an upgrade. Spending that much money and coming into the system unaware makes for an unhappy owner.

 

[tschwa2]

No that is incorrect. I have not described what happened. However, vacationers should not have to deal with sharks at an AAA 5 Diamond hotel. That is ridiculous. If TUG people think that is normal, then you guys are all nuts!

if your angle is you want to AAA Diamond status reduced. Go for it. That is for those that book a hotel and since no one here booked it as a hotel but through timeshare channels, I don't know that AAA would be interested in the opinions of timeshare owners/exchangers.