Retirement Discussions - respect for DaveNV/Dave Slater

[TolmiePeak]

It really isn't that bad. It is a graduated scale. 35% only applies to above $9M after the exclusion. It starts with 10% on the lower scale.

True but it is by far the worst in the country. They are forcing me to spend it / give it away. Such awful problems to have.....

 

[geekette]

What's wrong with their plan to leave it for their heirs?

Kurt

the decades of work and sacrifice. I favor the idea of enjoying what you worked for. I think it’s romantic to finally be a retired couple still in love and able to spend quality time together running thru the shared bucket list.

I probably wouldn’t give it away (beyond modest gifts to favorite charities in my will), but I would certainly do what I wanted to do. World cruise. That outdoor hot tub with enclosed gazebo around it I want could also have a sauna, shower, kitchenette, lounge, as it connects to the house thru nice breezeway (greenhouse?) of sliding doors. Adding value to the home left to the kids is win win, imo. Add modest inlaw cottage in case long term at home health help needed, Live how you wanta, amp the return on eventual sell or kids keep to rent out or live in or whatever,

Picking up the bill for family trips creates memories, and that’s worth a lot, My brother is doing that this coming weekend, renting a large house for all of us for extended weekend while we have our parents’ ashes interred with those of my aunt and uncle. I haven’t seen my nephews and niece in many years, usually been rare to see my cousins, etc. Bro has no heirs and no expenses beyond med, food and gas.

I don’t come from wealthy people, inheritances aren’t normal for us. gifts of cars or money or down payments just didn’t happen, We were taught that what we’d have in this world is what we worked for ourselves. Nothing wrong with that, none of us thought a thing of it when they put a bumper sticker on the RV: “We’re spending our kids’ inheritance”

No need to go nuts on spending but no reason to scrimp. Any inheritance is a good inheritance.

 

[geekette]

True but it is by far the worst in the country. They are forcing me to spend it / give it away. Such awful problems to have.....

I’m here for anyone forced to give away money. I would do good with it, too many people here gorked on drugs, kids are suffering, a lot of elderly disabled relying on food banks. Kinda why I’m here, to grow food to give away. I’m collecting replaced windows and glass doors to hopefully have a greenhouse by fall so I can have a lot more ready to go in the ground by last freeze and potentially grow year round. Send me a greenhouse kit to assemble, I’ll feed more people every year!

 

[geekette]

You need to understand the original intention of Social Security. It was never intended to be just a forced retirement savings plan in which everyone would get out what they paid in, with interest. It was meant to provide a security baseline so that no American would have to eat dog food and live on the street in their twilight years.

It is a progressive tax, where the more wealthy pay for that security for the less unfortunate. I understood that when I first started my career (which I knew would most likely put me in the higher-earners bucket) and I planned for my retirement accordingly. I never had the "you get what you paid in" mindset with SS. I understood that I live in a country and a society that had a system in place to provide security for the elderly, and part of my taxes would be paying for that. I find that the people who whine and bitch about this now and call it a "Ponzi scheme" just never understood that concept.

Kurt

Indeed. Both my grandmother (Dad’s side, young widow) and my mother (stay at home mother, widowed at 60 with significant health issues) woulda been homeless and hungry. It was traditionally the women screwed as the men died first (wars, dangerous work in logging, mines, machinery… and stress-related early demise). Women didn’t work (in many cases could not get hired), couldn’t have bank accounts or property, drive,… (before my time, but not by much), I find that it is usually men that complain about SS, label it Ponzi, want to do away with spousal benefit. But, maybe that’s because I don’t generally hear many women talking about SS. Money and math have usually been considered to be knowledge for males. My mother, born in 34, wasn’t allowed to take advanced math in high school because it wasn’t for girls. She was good at math, then hit a roadblock. She could be a nurse, teacher or secretary. None of those pay very well, never did.

Somewhere along the line, Congress recognized that allowing their parents to end up this way was abhorrent and their kids could face the same fate. Living long past career and savings happens. Someone retiring at 65 crossing the century mark is 35 years retired.

Social Security. A modest entitlement to hopefully maintain an existence. It is an entitlement because paying in entitles a person to a benefit, if they live long enough to collect it (neither maternal grandparent lived long enough to collect, both worked into 60s then illness took them). If they lived long past collection point, before the age of millionaires in many neighborhoods, they needed that money. Today, some people won’t need it and many others are desperate for it.

Sorry for the gendered slant. It’s about the elderly and disabled overall. If a person finds the program to be so repugnant, opt out by doing full career under the table. They can still be part of society but will lack the old age security,

 

[easyrider]

If you don't fly first class your kids will.

That is a motivational statement my friend. Yes to first class !!!

Bill

 

[joestein]

There is also a SS benefit for divorced folks. If you were married 10 years, not remarried you are eligible for up to 1/2 of your ex spouses benefit or your benefit whichever is higher.

Just saw this detail in a USA today article: If your ex died after you divorced, you're still eligible to collect widow's benefits This might affect some people here. Please verify.

Absoutely 100% true. A divorced spouse of over 10 years is not different than a married spouse.

My MIL has been collecting 1/2 of my FIL SS for years. He died this year - now she gets 100%. She has never worked a day in her life, so has no SS of her own. They have been divorced for 40 years.

 

[joestein]

It really isn't that bad. It is a graduated scale. 35% only applies to above $9M after the exclusion. It starts with 10% on the lower scale.

Easy to say if you are not paying it.

 

[joestein]

That is a motivational statement my friend. Yes to first class !!!

Bill

And even first class kinda sucks. I dont fly it that often, but it is not as special as it sounds.

I want to try that semi-private airline, JSX, that allows you to skip the major airports and all the TSA security that goes with it. It is not the private part of it that appeals to me as much as not dealing with the horrible hassle of the airport.

 

[VacationForever]

Easy to say if you are not paying it.

Actually my friends just moved to Seattle from California. They figure they save on paying state income tax by moving there. Individually they have more than $3M, and they chose not to be married for financial reasons. She is 81 and he is 73.

 

[Snazzylass]

I'm on the same advantage plan as my friends . . . and my DH is going on it May 2026. I can assure you it is MUCH better coverage than Medicare B alone . . . and it's not the perks. And we're using all of the "bonus benefits" ($1,155/year in what is essentially a free FSA type spending account is the biggest added benefit . . . there is no dental benefits provided but you can use this spending account to be reimbursed for dental expenses, as an example) so nothing is going unused.

okay, we are talking about 2 different coverages. Your Advantage plan is a type of Supplemental which provides coverage in addition to Medicare B alone. I am comparing the Advantage Plan to say, I believe G which I currently pay $195+ a month in addition to $202 or so for B. G is the supplemental which offers more flexibility and less Pre-Authorization requirements (possibly none). Hope that helps!

And, seriously, for all the Tuggers who see the value in buying their T/S second-hand, I am shocked that anyone would believe they are getting something for nothing from an insurance company (the bonus perks of $1100/yr vs paying a premium. Clearly, we are not comparing apples to apples). The biggest commercial RE bldgs are owned by Insurance companies. There's a whole profession devoted to their profitably - actuarial science which only takes the brightest students, the cream of the crop.

Here's the thing about insurance: you never know what you bought until you go to use it.

 

[Snazzylass]

There is also a SS benefit for divorced folks. If you were married 10 years, not remarried you are eligible for up to 1/2 of your ex spouses benefit or your benefit whichever is higher.

Just saw this detail in a USA today article: If your ex died after you divorced, you're still eligible to collect widow's benefits This might affect some people here. Please verify.

Correct! A buddy of mine has been collecting the survivor benefit (if I am using the correct terminology) of his deceased ex-wife which allowed him to retire from a crappy job, buy a used motor home and travel primarily in the SW. He's seen a lot of beautiful places, works summers as a camp host. I enjoy following him on FB and catching up with him in person when I can.

 

[x3 skier]

@x3 skier

With your federal plan, does that cover you for Part B, Part D and as supplemental plan?

Yes.

 

[Timeshare Von]

okay, we are talking about 2 different coverages. Your Advantage plan is a type of Supplemental which provides coverage in addition to Medicare B alone. I am comparing the Advantage Plan to say, I believe G which I currently pay $195+ a month in addition to $202 or so for B. G is the supplemental which offers more flexibility and less Pre-Authorization requirements (possibly none). Hope that helps!

And, seriously, for all the Tuggers who see the value in buying their T/S second-hand, I am shocked that anyone would believe they are getting something for nothing from an insurance company (the bonus perks of $1100/yr vs paying a premium. Clearly, we are not comparing apples to apples). The biggest commercial RE bldgs are owned by Insurance companies. There's a whole profession devoted to their profitably - actuarial science which only takes the brightest students, the cream of the crop.

Here's the thing about insurance: you never know what you bought until you go to use it.

I wish you weren't so condescending, as to suggest I don't know what I have or that in some way I made a dumb choice not understanding my coverage. There are many benefits to my plan that yes, are built into it and for no additional premium above the $202.90/month paid to Medicare via my Social Security benefit. I do not have onerous pre-authorizations and my policy covers me "in network" when I'm elsewhere in the United States, including its territories (like Puerto Rico), with any facility or doctor who takes Medicare. My plan also covers pharmacy . . . in lieu of needing a drug supplement plan (Medicare Part D).

As a cancer survivor and someone with several heart conditions, I have had to use all aspects of my Medicare advantage plan, and have had ZERO surprises and not outrageous out of pocket expenses. PLUS my day-to-day "routine" medical needs have been covered with very reasonable copays/co-insurance . . . and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses.

What I will agree with you on, is that is it apparent my Medicare advantage plan does have different (and seemingly better) coverages than whatever it is you're comparing it to.

For anyone else reading this, and living in Wisconsin, if you want to check out the Network Health option for Medicare, here is the booklet cover to help you research the plan I and many thousands of families are using with great satisfaction.

 

[Timeshare Von]

There is also a SS benefit for divorced folks. If you were married 10 years, not remarried you are eligible for up to 1/2 of your ex spouses benefit or your benefit whichever is higher.

Just saw this detail in a USA today article: If your ex died after you divorced, you're still eligible to collect widow's benefits This might affect some people here. Please verify.

Yes this is true. My MIL is currently receiving based on her now deceased ex-husband. It's something less than 50% however, as I don't think he waited to FRA to start collecting.

 

[easyrider]

Actually my friends just moved to Seattle from California. They figure they save on paying state income tax by moving there. Individually they have more than $3M, and they chose not to be married for financial reasons. She is 81 and he is 73.

Washington does seem to attract retired Californians. For the time being anyway, Washington doesn't have a State income tax and SS and retirement account withdrawals aren't taxed which is good for many retirees. My brother in law lived in Southern California and sold his place and bought a really nice place in Washington with plenty of money left over. Heath care is decent in Washington.

Bill

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Washington does seem to attract retired Californians. For the time being anyway, Washington doesn't have a State income tax and SS and retirement account withdrawals aren't taxed which is good for many retirees. My brother in law lived in Southern California and sold his place and bought a really nice place in Washington with plenty of money left over. Heath care is decent in Washington.

Bill

At least until 2028. . .

 

[VacationForever]

At least until 2028. . .

But it does not affect those whose incomes are below $1m.

 

[rapmarks]

Absoutely 100% true. A divorced spouse of over 10 years is not different than a married spouse.

My MIL has been collecting 1/2 of my FIL SS for years. He died this year - now she gets 100%. She has never worked a day in her life, so has no SS of her own. They have been divorced for 40 years.

I was explaining this to my Canadian friend she couldn’t believe it.

 

[isisdave]

I think it is unfair to call SS a "Ponzi scheme." A Ponzi scheme relies on continuing current "investments" to pay exaggerated current "returns" in an intentionally fraudulent arrangement, and the key point is that they are not set up to stay in business for 100 years before collapsing. Maybe 100 weeks, if you're lucky.

Social Security began in 1935, and I am sure it's correct that no one tried to forecast much past one generation. But I think they assumed that the population and economy would expand for quite a while. Similarly, the 1983 changes were fairly accurate about what they would accomplish and for how long that would be sustained. The thing that always annoyed me about these was that the taxability of benefits was not indexed to inflation, but I did see that this was a disguised annual tax increase no one had to vote on, and part of the calculation that would keep the funds solvent.

There are lots of ways to fix the problems, and to rework the future framework, but as I think I have mentioned here before I don't expect them until a year before the deadline. This will enable whichever party implements them to crow about it, and will prevent the opposition, due to lack of time, from changing it all before it goes into effect.

 

[easyrider]

But it does not affect those whose incomes are below $1m.

Which is most people, especially those that are retired.

A few of our relatives have moved to the Lake Chapalla Mexico area for the nice weather. I ran into some of those retired people in Puerto Vallarta last winter. We ended up unknowingly reserving units at the same resort for a week. They bought property in Ajijjic about ten years ago. I asked about healthcare and was told the doctor goes to their home and if something major happened they are 45 minutes to Guadalajara. They answered a bunch of questions including long term care options. When I asked about their funeral plan they had none. I guess they are winging it.

We have other friends that decided to move to Puerto Vallarta full time. We visited their new condo and it is nice with a fantastic view of the bay and city. Summer is too hot for us. Winter is just right.

Bill

 

[isisdave]

I wish you weren't so condescending, as to suggest I don't know what I have or that in some way I made a dumb choice not understanding my coverage. There are many benefits to my plan that yes, are built into it and for no additional premium above the $202.90/month paid to Medicare via my Social Security benefit. I do not have onerous pre-authorizations and my policy covers me "in network" when I'm elsewhere in the United States, including its territories (like Puerto Rico), with any facility or doctor who takes Medicare. My plan also covers pharmacy . . . in lieu of needing a drug supplement plan (Medicare Part D).

As a cancer survivor and someone with several heart conditions, I have had to use all aspects of my Medicare advantage plan, and have had ZERO surprises and not outrageous out of pocket expenses. PLUS my day-to-day "routine" medical needs have been covered with very reasonable copays/co-insurance . . . and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses.

What I will agree with you on, is that is it apparent my Medicare advantage plan does have different (and seemingly better) coverages than whatever it is you're comparing it to.

For anyone else reading this, and living in Wisconsin, if you want to check out the Network Health option for Medicare, here is the booklet cover to help you research the plan I and many thousands of families are using with great satisfaction.

You are very fortunate to have an Advantage plan that is a PPO, or at least has the best features of a PPO. These are not widely available. In my county, there were none at all until a few years ago. Now there are ten, from UHC and Humana mostly. Still, the smallest out-of-pocket maximum is almost $7k, and the largest is twice that. A Plan N annual premium is about $2500 this year for a 76-year-old.

We always try to warn people about HMO plans, as their limited network and referral rules are dangerous. DW was a mental health counselor who had more than one patient die because her referral was delayed until it was too late.

 

[easyrider]

I wish you weren't so condescending, as to suggest I don't know what I have or that in some way I made a dumb choice not understanding my coverage. There are many benefits to my plan that yes, are built into it and for no additional premium above the $202.90/month paid to Medicare via my Social Security benefit. I do not have onerous pre-authorizations and my policy covers me "in network" when I'm elsewhere in the United States, including its territories (like Puerto Rico), with any facility or doctor who takes Medicare. My plan also covers pharmacy . . . in lieu of needing a drug supplement plan (Medicare Part D).

As a cancer survivor and someone with several heart conditions, I have had to use all aspects of my Medicare advantage plan, and have had ZERO surprises and not outrageous out of pocket expenses. PLUS my day-to-day "routine" medical needs have been covered with very reasonable copays/co-insurance . . . and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses.

What I will agree with you on, is that is it apparent my Medicare advantage plan does have different (and seemingly better) coverages than whatever it is you're comparing it to.

For anyone else reading this, and living in Wisconsin, if you want to check out the Network Health option for Medicare, here is the booklet cover to help you research the plan I and many thousands of families are using with great satisfaction.

We have many friends that are on an Advantage Plan. They all like the zero deductible and the local providers. I think most people choose an Advantage Plan over a Plan g. The only reason we went Plan g was that to get on Plan g later we would go through underwriting and I probably wouldn't be approved with pre-existing conditions.

Bill

 

[geekette]

I think it is unfair to call SS a "Ponzi scheme." A Ponzi scheme relies on continuing current "investments" to pay exaggerated current "returns" in an intentionally fraudulent arrangement, and the key point is that they are not set up to stay in business for 100 years before collapsing. Maybe 100 weeks, if you're lucky.

Social Security began in 1935, and I am sure it's correct that no one tried to forecast much past one generation. But I think they assumed that the population and economy would expand for quite a while. Similarly, the 1983 changes were fairly accurate about what they would accomplish and for how long that would be sustained. The thing that always annoyed me about these was that the taxability of benefits was not indexed to inflation, but I did see that this was a disguised annual tax increase no one had to vote on, and part of the calculation that would keep the funds solvent.

There are lots of ways to fix the problems, and to rework the future framework, but as I think I have mentioned here before I don't expect them until a year before the deadline. This will enable whichever party implements them to crow about it, and will prevent the opposition, due to lack of time, from changing it all before it goes into effect.

Thanks. I also don’t categorize it as Ponzi scheme. Two very different things.

 

[geekette]

During open enrollment, there were a ton of commercials for what I assume were Medicare Advantage plans (“Get all the Medicare benefits you are entitled to, call now!”). The big thing was “the grocery card”, worth $1200 to spend at Walmart, drug stores, etc. What is up with that? Seems like you’d have to be paying more than the monthly “grocery benefit” or those were scammers. Two neighbors say, oh no, we had a card they loaded money onto evey month. Doesn’t sound like either of them are receiving that this year but neither has looked into it. I’m just curious, I’m not of age to shop Medicare anything.

 

[klpca]

.

We have many friends that are on an Advantage Plan. They all like the zero deductible and the local providers. I think most people choose an Advantage Plan over a Plan g. The only reason we went Plan g was that to get on Plan g later we would go through underwriting and I probably wouldn't be approved with pre-existing conditions.

Bill

Same for us. We wanted options.

One of our largest medical care providers (Scripps Health) stopped accepting any Medicare Advantage (PPO or HMO) this past January. Poof. Gone.

We live in a topsy/turvy world with respect to medical insurance these days.