Resort(s) Bailout or Resorts LLC

[rickandcindy23]

Why are all PCCs lumped together as sleazebags?

Every one of these PCC's consists of three different companies. Most of the big ones are fairly efficient:
1. The Postcard Company that sends the mailings and gets the timeshare owners to the meetings and collects the $3K + and the week. This company gets power of attorney over the week and expects current year's fees paid in full, as well as the cash to take the week.

2. There is the seller on eBay who takes the week and advertises it, usually with MF's due (even though the current owner paid the fees), and with high closing costs. The sellers gets the profit from the sale of the week and the MF's for the current year. CJ Timeshares and Vacation Innovations seem to work directly with Timeshare Relief.

3. The closing company, which often is not even licensed to hold escrow. The closing companies are currently getting $399-$499 for the service it provides in typing the deed and mailing it to the county with the appropriate fees. Timeshare Closing Services closes all of the Timeshare Relief deals.

All three companies make money, but if a timeshare has no value, which describes most timeshares today, the only company that makes money is the PCC, and the seller has to make concessions to give away the week. Some concessions are free closing, free usage, etc.

The number of listings on eBay have decreased substantially over the last year. I would like to think owners are getting more education from the resorts, but maybe it's just less suckers out there who are paying these companies. I don't know. Could be many weeks are going to bankrupt LLC's.

I remember my first eBay timeshare purchase, way before I knew about TUG. I bought an annual 2 bedroom at PAHIO at Bali Hai. It was a bargain at $7,500 eight years ago. With closing and title insurance it was more like $8,300. Now you couldn't give those weeks away on eBay. That's how bad the economy and the PCC model have hurt timeshare.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Now you couldn't give those weeks away on eBay. That's how bad the economy and the PCC model have hurt timeshare.

And the HOA/BOD/POA And the Timeshare developers over developing and the Timeshare Retail Salesman and the Exchange companies....I don't know why you leave these out, they are all equality if not more guilty of sinking the TS model...

Pcc's are guilty of getting people Out of contracts that they can't afford! What a horrible thing to do! It's like being guilty of stealing food to feed the starving...sure your stealing...but its for a good cause

I purchased my first Timeshare from a PCC, more power to them!

 

[e.bram]

Years ago I went into a pawn shop(to buy vintage Leicas)when I traveled a lot,and noticed a sign which said in effect "People don't blame undertakers for the people they bury why blame me for peoples economic condition". The same could be said for PCCs,

 

[rrlongwell]

Aren't sumday, cj timeshares, and timesharepro1 all PCCs? I hear generally positive things about them.

You may want to google their names and review comments made about the named firms. Some threads on Tugs discuss some of the named companies.

 

[DeniseM]

And the HOA/BOD/POA And the Timeshare developers over developing and the Timeshare Retail Salesman and the Exchange companies....I don't know why you leave these out, they are all equality if not more guilty of sinking the TS model...

Pcc's are guilty of getting people Out of contracts that they can't afford! What a horrible thing to do! It's like being guilty of stealing food to feed the starving...sure your stealing...but its for a good cause

I purchased my first Timeshare from a PCC, more power to them!

Ride - I am so happy to hear that you are interested in this business model. Please wire $3,000 to my bank Acct. in Mexico, and I promise I will sell your SBP timeshare for $30K. Send me $6K and I will sell both your timeshares for $30K each! I'm going to send you a postcard, and call you - over and over and over again - please get back to me ASAP, because I already have buyers all lined up! :hysterical:

 

[rrlongwell]

Ride - I am so happy to hear that you are interested in this business model. Please wire $3,000 to my bank Acct. in Mexico, and I promise I will sell your SBP timeshare for $30K. Send me $6K and I will sell both your timeshares for $30K each! I'm going to send you a postcard, and call you - over and over and over again - please get back to me ASAP, because I already have buyers all lined up! :hysterical:

You must still be in training your claims were presented in a much to short fashion without a lot of fine print. Do not forget the clause in the contract that upon receipt of his money he agrees not to sue you under any conditions. That would be a fine print item (Joke Joke Joke).

 

[e.bram]

Denise:
I think you have mixed up upfront fee scamers with the PPCs.

 

[DeniseM]

You must still be in training your claims were presented in a much to short fashion without a lot of fine print. Do not forget the clause in the contract that upon receipt of his money he agrees not to sue you under any conditions. That would be a fine print item (Joke Joke Joke).

I'm saving all the details for the many, many phone calls I'm going to make - not only do I have private buyers lined up, but I also have an investment group that is chomping at the bit, to buy the whole resort (one unit at a time) for full price and convert it to high end condos! PLUS, I also have another client who is buying up these properties to house people attending Conferences and Conventions in Myrtle Beach, and they will pay top dollar! Heck, they will pay more than the developer sold them for!

RIDE - SEND ME YOUR MONEY - QUICK! THIS OPPORTUNITY WON'T LAST!

 

[DeniseM]

I forgot to mention, you may have to pay sales tax in Mexico (it's complicated - just trust me on this) but since you are going to sell these TS's for $30K+ and make a huge profit, it is well-worth a small upfront show of good faith.

 

[DeniseM]

Oh, and one other little thing - we will need you to pay next year's MF into the same Acct. - But don't worry - you will get it back with interest - we will add it to your GINORMOUS CHECK THAT IS SITTING RIGHT HERE ON MY DESK!

HURRY - SEND THE MONEY!!!!

 

[timeos2]

Denise - Are you sure you didn't attend sales/con artist school? That is too close to a real pitch!

 

[DeniseM]

Shhh..... that's my alter ego - "EVIL DeniseM."

 

[DeniseM]

Ride - DUDE - think of your precious little girl!!!!

THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HER WHEN SHE INHERITS YOUR TIMESHARES AND CAN'T PAY THE MAINTENANCE FEE AND ENDS UP ON THE STREET USING DRUGS AND EATING OUT OF GARBAGE CANS!



Don't think of yourself, man! Don't you want to be a GOOD DAD? Don't you want to do the RIGHT THING???? - SEND ME THE MONEY - HURRY!

 

[DeniseM]

Denise:
I think you have mixed up upfront fee scamers with the PPCs.

I have not - the upfront fee scammers ARE PCC's and they use the same "business model" of post cards and cold calls and upfront fees. You do know that PCC stands for Post Card Company, right?

 

[Beefnot]

I bought two timeshares from timesharepro1 on ebay, both for a grand total of $21 and absolutely no closing costs. They were not the true seller per se, simply the power of attorney for the actual timeshare owner it appears. One went without a hitch. The other, after the transfer I learned that it had been misrepresented, and their closing company offered to take it back. So they had me do notarized power of attorney, the costs of which they reimbursed to me due to their error, and they resold it to someone else on ebay.

If timesharepro1 is a PCC, then they are one of the good guys, not the scumbuckets folks are railing on. I would do business with them in a heartbeat. And if they made an exorbitant amount of money in the process from some poor TS owner, then at least they did their job in removing the millstone from that owner's neck. Think of a pawnbroker or check cashing company. Yeah, they definitely shaft the hell out of you, but guess what? You know that going in and there are no surprises.

If a PCC tells you upfront that it's gonna hurt, but does what it says it's gonna do, then there should be no beef with them, no matter how much we disdain the fees they charge. But if the PCC is a true scammer with intent to defraud the TS owner and/or the HOAs, then they should be shown no mercy. Let them rot in jail for all I care.

 

[TUGBrian]

I think youll find that if PCC's were completely upfront with exactly what they were going to do (ie the process described above) to each customer, then told them the fee to do it....and the customer still felt it was a good idea...they would have no problems whatsoever with people disliking their business model (excluding the viking ship part)

sadly, its been proven over and over again that this simply doesnt happen.

 

[Carolinian]

Years ago I went into a pawn shop(to buy vintage Leicas)when I traveled a lot,and noticed a sign which said in effect "People don't blame undertakers for the people they bury why blame me for peoples economic condition". The same could be said for PCCs,

The pawn shop generally does not lie to people to get them to part with money to hand over their own property, and they do not stiff third parties out of money owed. A pawn shop is a reputable business. A PCC is not.

 

[Carolinian]

You might want to have an attorney in the state where the timeshare is located look at those POA deeds. Many of those going through PCC's are bad.

I bought two timeshares from timesharepro1 on ebay, both for a grand total of $21 and absolutely no closing costs. They were not the true seller per se, simply the power of attorney for the actual timeshare owner it appears. One went without a hitch. The other, after the transfer I learned that it had been misrepresented, and their closing company offered to take it back. So they had me do notarized power of attorney, the costs of which they reimbursed to me due to their error, and they resold it to someone else on ebay.

If timesharepro1 is a PCC, then they are one of the good guys, not the scumbuckets folks are railing on. I would do business with them in a heartbeat. And if they made an exorbitant amount of money in the process from some poor TS owner, then at least they did their job in removing the millstone from that owner's neck. Think of a pawnbroker or check cashing company. Yeah, they definitely shaft the hell out of you, but guess what? You know that going in and there are no surprises.

If a PCC tells you upfront that it's gonna hurt, but does what it says it's gonna do, then there should be no beef with them, no matter how much we disdain the fees they charge. But if the PCC is a true scammer with intent to defraud the TS owner and/or the HOAs, then they should be shown no mercy. Let them rot in jail for all I care.

 

[Carolinian]

Maybe you ought to talk to someone who owns at Point at Poipu if you think that!

The main difference is that at a member-controlled resort you do not see the board jacking up the m/f to line the developers' pocket.

The main factor on holding value is location, not amenities.

I wonder if members of an HOA/POA/BOD did get paid, if more WOULD get accomplished? Right now, we can figuratively separate places like Wyndham and Starwood from member controlled boards and call the developer places evil, but in the end...Do we REALLY see any difference in how they are run?

Honestly, some of the nicest resorts out there...the ones holding their resale values ARE the developer controlled...look at the Marriotts, starwoods, heck, look at the top ten list at Tug...these places have the best amenities

here's how i see it....the developer controlled resorts are in it just for the money, their profit depends on people wanting to come back every year...i'm not a fan of that, but it works....the member controlled resorts their stake is in...their vacation, not quite to the level of the developer controlled resorts...i think this is why we see such a difference in quality of resorts...I'm not a fan of people being motivated by money, i'm also not a fan of unqualified people doing as little work as they possibly can

 

[Carolinian]

The problem with termination of a timeshare is that under state law or the CC&R's you usually need an insanely high percentage of owners to vote for a termination. The board voting isn't enough. But like any corporate vote, getting a super majority or a unanimous vote where ownership is widely dispersed it is nearly impossible unless you have a well funded coordinated effort. So unless a developer is going to step up to the plate and fund an expensive proxy effort, it's just about impossible to get the necessary vote to terminate a timeshare.

For most timeshares, the easiest way to terminate is through a bankruptcy proceeding.

Bankrupting an HOA, however, does not terminate the timeshare itself in many situations.

 

[Carolinian]

Hilton Club NY is located in NYC, and all NYC deed transfer should be prepared by attorney which makes closing cost more than 1k.
Maybe that was the problem selling time guys had... they couldn't prepare a new deed legally due to that requirement.

Preparing deeds ILLEGALLY seems to be a common practice among the closing companies used by PCC's and I have seen many of them which are invalid to pass title.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Beefnot: One of the PCC's was associated with the timeshare reseller Sellingtimeguys on eBay. They were doing a good job of closing most units, but they seem to be bankrupt, defunct, and out of business. They aren't answering phone calls or emails. And one TUG member has a thread about it. She paid a lot of money for a Hilton timeshare in New York that she didn't get, and the current owner is also out money and has a MF bill for 2012.

Sellingtimeguys was renting RCI exchanges by the boatload on eBay, too, including lots of DVC. They got as much cash as they could before folding. It's pure sleaze.

So apparently that Hilton NY points package was such a burden for those owners, they chose to pay a PCC $3-4K to get rid of it. Why do people get talked into paying cash to give back a timeshare they paid $40K to buy? Because the sales spiel of the PCC is frightening, that's why.

I have been to THREE of the PCC meetings. Now many of these companies are sending letters, not postcards. There are so many copycats out there, and many are doing a bad job of doing what they promise.