Recent Hilton Buy Backs

[namuh]

I don't think that I've seen a 2br platinum for $7000, and I would expect Hilton would buy it back at that price.

Anyway, the question for somebody like me who wants to get into HGVC is whether the seemingly low gold 2br prices of 3-4K is better than a 1 br platinum for 5K, or even a 2BR platimun for 8.5-10K. I don't know how many points I would use in a year. I guess it also depends on when prices will recover, if ever, and whether the platinums will maintain their premium over the gold.

10yrs of $180 a year difference in MF between 1BR and 2BR would be $1,800, not counting the opportunity cost of the money at the start.

 

[smokyhill]

I don't think that I've seen a 2br platinum for $7000, and I would expect Hilton would buy it back at that price.

Anyway, the question for somebody like me who wants to get into HGVC is whether the seemingly low gold 2br prices of 3-4K is better than a 1 br platinum for 5K, or even a 2BR platimun for 8.5-10K. I don't know how many points I would use in a year. I guess it also depends on when prices will recover, if ever, and whether the platinums will maintain their premium over the gold.

10yrs of $180 a year difference in MF between 1BR and 2BR would be $1,800, not counting the opportunity cost of the money at the start.

I was told by a reliable source a recent e-Bay sale (2 bdrm. Platinum) which sold for approx 8800.00 (within last 30 days) did not pass ROFR and Hilton bought it back.
We initally looked at 7000 points EOY. After much studying and some advice from fellow tuggers, we decided 4800 points every year worked best for us. Our current MF is $513.00 yr. and we paid $6150.00 for the TS. I realize we might have been able to do a little better on price, but we wanted the security of dealing with a trusted and respected agent. Fellow tuggers suggested Judi Kozlowski to us and we have been extremely happy with her.

The question you pose of how many points you might use, unfortunately can only be answered by you. It all depends on the amount of time and flexibility you have in getting away. What are your needs, 1brm, 2bdrm 3bdrm? You can always start small like we are and add points down the road if you find yourself short. I think you'll find HGVC a great program with a lot of flexibility.
Good luck on you quest and let us know what you decide to do!

 

[smokyhill]

Current fees are $513.00
Will post 2010 fees as soon as I get them

2010 = $526.19

 

[jsb15]

Gold vs. Platinum costs

I just sat down with my 17 year old who is a wizard with Excel and asked him to work up a spreadsheet comparing total costs between Platinum and Gold weeks. I tried variable purchase prices, maintenance fees, annual percent increases in MF, and interest rates under the assumption that the principle invested would retain its value with a resale purchase but not go up or down. I then multiplied the cumulative costs for a Gold week x 7/5 to account for or equalize them both at 7000 points. Alternatively, you could compare the costs of 7 Gold weeks vs. 5 Platinum weeks yielding 35K points. I assumed at some point the higher opportunity cost of a Platinum week (more money tied up in the purchase not earning compound interest elsewhere) + MF would exceed the Gold Purchase costs in the short term. That was never the case until I assumed hyperinflation of 10%+. At normal interest rates in the 3-7% range, and at normal resale prices, there is no time period where you can justify a gold purchase. If 7000 point packages cost $20K+ resale or interest rates soared, there might be a point at which a gold purchase was warranted.

 

[namuh]

I just sat down with my 17 year old who is a wizard with Excel and asked him to work up a spreadsheet comparing total costs between Platinum and Gold weeks. I tried variable purchase prices, maintenance fees, annual percent increases in MF, and interest rates under the assumption that the principle invested would retain its value with a resale purchase but not go up or down. I then multiplied the cumulative costs for a Gold week x 7/5 to account for or equalize them both at 7000 points. Alternatively, you could compare the costs of 7 Gold weeks vs. 5 Platinum weeks yielding 35K points. I assumed at some point the higher opportunity cost of a Platinum week (more money tied up in the purchase not earning compound interest elsewhere) + MF would exceed the Gold Purchase costs in the short term. That was never the case until I assumed hyperinflation of 10%+. At normal interest rates in the 3-7% range, and at normal resale prices, there is no time period where you can justify a gold purchase. If 7000 point packages cost $20K+ resale or interest rates soared, there might be a point at which a gold purchase was warranted.

Unless 5000 points a year is all you would use.

 

[jsb15]

If 5000 points is all you would use, then a 4800 point 1BR platinum would be the item to purchase. If you wanted to use 5000 points a year and borrowed from the subsequent year, it would take 24 years of annual borrrowing to use up all of your next year's points.

 

[SCMom]

Gold vs. platinum

Someone asked me to post our maintenance fees for our recent 5,000 gold purchase at Sea World. Without looking them up, I think they are around $850 per year, not counting the $95 annual fee we already pay with our MarBrisa ownership. We own 7,000 points with MarBrisa and added this on.

As for the gold vs. platinum debate, you can do lots of spreadsheets, but here is a top level. I purchased our gold for $3,300 for 5,000 points. I just looked at recent sales on ebay and the only Hilton-developed non-affiliate 7,000 point platinum package sold for just over $9,000. I realize that I am paying the same maintenance fees for only 5,000 points that the buyer is paying for his or her 7,000 points, but I also just paid $6,000 less. It would take years for that differential to pay off for me. There weren't any recent platinum 4800 point packages for me to compare. I think there are plenty of times that a gold package can make sense, if you are buying resale.

Emily

 

[LBTRS]

As for the gold vs. platinum debate, you can do lots of spreadsheets, but here is a top level. I purchased our gold for $3,300 for 5,000 points. I think there are plenty of times that a gold package can make sense, if you are buying resale.

Emily

I'm trying to decide if a 5000 point gold level for around $3000 is a smart move. It's a $6000 initial savings so I'm having trouble seeing how this is such a bad deal for us since the time we travel is during the gold period anyway?

 

[steeler]

I was told by a reliable source a recent e-Bay sale (2 bdrm. Platinum) which sold for approx 8800.00 (within last 30 days) did not pass ROFR and Hilton bought it back.

I purchased a 1 BDRM Gold (3400 pts) at Las Vegas Hilton for $1,800. It just passed Hilton's ROFR. It is my understanding that because of the economy they are not excercising their ROFR.

I know that 3400 is not a lot of points within HGVC, but, it's enough for me, especially since I don't plan on using the points all at once (mulitple usage vs one week usage).

For the price point, likely usage, and low MFs for LV -- purchasing gold points, in my instance, absolutely made sense.

 

[SCMom]

Depends on your needs...

If 5000 points is all you would use, then a 4800 point 1BR platinum would be the item to purchase. If you wanted to use 5000 points a year and borrowed from the subsequent year, it would take 24 years of annual borrrowing to use up all of your next year's points.

I have a family of six, so a 4800 point package would not book me a two bedroom each year for a week in gold season. We could do fewer days, but some people might want a full week or to take advantage of home club booking. You can't home club book a two bedroom with a 4800 point package (I guess unless you are in silver season).

Emily

 

[Negociant]

Gold v. Platinum Case Study

Someone asked me to post our maintenance fees for our recent 5,000 gold purchase at Sea World. Without looking them up, I think they are around $850 per year, not counting the $95 annual fee we already pay with our MarBrisa ownership. We own 7,000 points with MarBrisa and added this on.

As for the gold vs. platinum debate, you can do lots of spreadsheets, but here is a top level. I purchased our gold for $3,300 for 5,000 points. I just looked at recent sales on ebay and the only Hilton-developed non-affiliate 7,000 point platinum package sold for just over $9,000. I realize that I am paying the same maintenance fees for only 5,000 points that the buyer is paying for his or her 7,000 points, but I also just paid $6,000 less. It would take years for that differential to pay off for me. There weren't any recent platinum 4800 point packages for me to compare. I think there are plenty of times that a gold package can make sense, if you are buying resale.

Emily

To me, points are points. I have never booked my home week and never will, but I do use our points very well and have been on many awesome trips, including trips where I was able to get rooms for friends and family. Now I am interested in adding points. If we want to compare things accurately, you need to look at the cost of 5000 pts vs 5000 point (or 4800 since its close), not what 7,000 would cost.

Data: Smokeyhill paid $2820 more for his 4800 platinum than SCMom for her 5000 gold ($6150 vs. $3330) but Smokeyhill's MFs are $324 less per year than SCMom's ($526 v. $850). It will take Smokeyhill 9 years to make up the difference.

Both did well in my opinion. SCMom did well and paid much less than platinum but she has to pay more in MFs. That may be the best way to go if one plans to sell the TS in a few years or if cash for entry is limited. Smokyhill did well too but paid more upfront for lower MFs. This is a good deal if one will hold the TS more than a decade.

Thanks for the info everyone. Helpful stuff. On balance, I am kind of leaning toward the 5000 point gold because saving a bundle upfront sounds good, and who can think 10 years ahead!

 

[chriskre]

To me, points are points. I have never booked my home week and never will, but I do use our points very well and have been on many awesome trips, including trips where I was able to get rooms for friends and family. Now I am interested in adding points. If we want to compare things accurately, you need to look at the cost of 5000 pts vs 5000 point (or 4800 since its close), not what 7,000 would cost.

Data: Smokeyhill paid $2820 more for his 4800 platinum than SCMom for her 5000 gold ($6150 vs. $3330) but Smokeyhill's MFs are $324 less per year than SCMom's ($526 v. $850). It will take Smokeyhill 9 years to make up the difference.

Both did well in my opinion. SCMom did well and paid much less than platinum but she has to pay more in MFs. That may be the best way to go if one plans to sell the TS in a few years or if cash for entry is limited. Smokyhill did well too but paid more upfront for lower MFs. This is a good deal if one will hold the TS more than a decade.

Thanks for the info everyone. Helpful stuff. On balance, I am kind of leaning toward the 5000 point gold because saving a bundle upfront sounds good, and who can think 10 years ahead!

I agree with you on this. Points are points and who can plan 10 years from now. Hell, I may not even be alive in 10 years so I'm doing like you and buying an EOY 5000 gold for a steal of a deal, hopefully if it passes ROFR.
Very excited.

 

[jsb15]

To me, points are points. I have never booked my home week and never will, but I do use our points very well and have been on many awesome trips, including trips where I was able to get rooms for friends and family. Now I am interested in adding points. If we want to compare things accurately, you need to look at the cost of 5000 pts vs 5000 point (or 4800 since its close), not what 7,000 would cost.

Data: Smokeyhill paid $2820 more for his 4800 platinum than SCMom for her 5000 gold ($6150 vs. $3330) but Smokeyhill's MFs are $324 less per year than SCMom's ($526 v. $850). It will take Smokeyhill 9 years to make up the difference.

Both did well in my opinion. SCMom did well and paid much less than platinum but she has to pay more in MFs. That may be the best way to go if one plans to sell the TS in a few years or if cash for entry is limited. Smokyhill did well too but paid more upfront for lower MFs. This is a good deal if one will hold the TS more than a decade.

Thanks for the info everyone. Helpful stuff. On balance, I am kind of leaning toward the 5000 point gold because saving a bundle upfront sounds good, and who can think 10 years ahead!

The problem with this argument saying the out of pocket costs are the same after 9 years is that at the end of that time SmokeyHill has a week valued several thousand dollars more for resale purposes than SCMom. I would argue, assuming you could afford either Gold or Platinum points, that the purchase price is irrelevant and that the added cost to Platinum points is only the "opportunity cost" or interest cost of having more money tied up with HGVC on a Platinum package. At any reasonable interest rate, you are a loser with Gold points year one since the additional MF/point far exceed the additional interest costs. This assumes the weeks retain their value for resale. If you were looking at the Hilton Club of NY which is a right to use property with no residual value at the end of the 23 year term, then this analysis would not apply since your Platinum point week value depreciates to zero. I did not account for this scenario on the spreadsheet. Going back to the example above, the additional $2820 that SmokeyHill pays (until he/she sells) costs $141 of additional lost interest/investment income assuming a 5% rate of return. You would need a return of more than 11% every year to justify the increased MF with Gold points even from year one. By disclaimer, I am not an economist or accountant but if there is a glaring fallacy in my analysis, I would love to hear it.

 

[hockeybrain]

I would argue that points are points unless you own at HHV :whoopie: . To me provided one is looking at long term ownership and time share use it always makes sense to buy platinum unless the cost differential becomes outstanding or you really want to book your home resort during gold season, which I believe usually does not happen - unless you own HHV .

 

[Purseval]

By disclaimer, I am not an economist or accountant but if there is a glaring fallacy in my analysis, I would love to hear it.

You messed up right at the beginning when you figured that resales were worth something :hysterical: Instead of thinking of it as real estate, think of it as beer. You have a slightly better brand than I do, I got more for my money and in the end we'll both get a nice buzz then it will all end up down the toilet.

 

[flexonguy]

Perseval

Funny:hysterical:

 

[flexonguy]

Seth

How do we know for sure that the resellers on EBay or not reporting inflated selling prices to HGVC ROFR department thru fraudulent contracts? How does the resort know for sure what the actually selling price is?

 

[chriskre]

Seth

How do we know for sure that the resellers on EBay or not reporting inflated selling prices to HGVC ROFR department thru fraudulent contracts? How does the resort know for sure what the actually selling price is?

Maybe they check the ebay site.

 

[thinze3]

April 2009: Please don't kill me you HGVC owners, but I wouldn't be surprised to see these 7000 platinum points selling, and passing ROFR, for $1 a point before long.

Has we reached this price yet? $1 = 1 point

 

[chriskre]

Has we reached this price yet? $1 = 1 point

Yes we have. I just bought one.

 

[yumdrey]

For gold season, yes, it's easy to see. For platinum 7000 (not 4800), it's still very hard to find even on ebay. There's one ebay auction which is over tomorrow, so let's see...
(I am talking about HGVC resorts, not affiliated resorts like bay club)

 

[namuh]

The Flamingo continues to sell for more than the Karen Vegas property. A 7000 platinum just went for over $10,000 on Ebay, and they always seem to be around there. The main thing is that the sellers are letting them go at 10,000 where before it didn't meet reserve.

 

[Elster]

for 7000 points I think the pricing seems to be around 8500-10000USD resale, this seems to be about average min-max sale prices given the market at the moment - I still can't see a 7000 platinum reaching the dollar a point area, frankly, at least not within the US HGVC properties....
I'd be happy with picking up 7000 points for around 9k USD - to my mind without the complex maths, you're always going to get better resale on a platinum week than a gold and if you intend to use the system, points are points then just get the cheapest total cost of ownership you can over a realistic period, say 10 years...thats why I've bought (so far) outside the US the keep the MF down....

 

[akyam]

The Flamingo continues to sell for more than the Karen Vegas property. A 7000 platinum just went for over $10,000 on Ebay, and they always seem to be around there. The main thing is that the sellers are letting them go at 10,000 where before it didn't meet reserve.

I'm guessing the reason the Flamingo goes for more is that they recently finished a special assessment and upgrades to the property. The Karen property will probably be getting an assessment in the not-so-distant future, so that has to factor into the annual MFs for cost of ownership.

We are just finalizing a purchase at Karen for <$10K, but just barely and that was at the end of last year (and it wasn't on eBay). It already passed ROFR and am just waiting for the deed to record...

 

[JM48]

Just passed 5000 pts at Karen Ave. in Las Vegas.
It is Gold Season.

Paid $2700.00 on e bay.

JM