Recent Destination Club News

[Desties]

This weekend was the Demeure deadline, so maybe we'll learn about this next week.

I think the club shot itself in the foot with the awkward ways it sweetened the offer along the way. A week ago, there was an email with a FAQ that indicated that any amounts not used in any particular year would carry over to the following year.

This was a major bone of contention for some -- like me (though not my only one, obviously) -- since it seemed a good chunk of annual funds paid would expire worthless. That changed, and Demeure failed to promote the point. Instead, it matter of factly tossed it out there in Q&A as if it had always been the case that the funds carry over.

Anyway, the rather dormant nature of this board until just now tells me everything I need to know about how Demeure's acceptance is going. It's a bummer that more of the names on that potential suitor list hadn't come on stronger. Everyone's scattering in different directions, with most -- I imagine -- swearing off destination clubs entirely.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

i thought shelton was the lead of the unsecured creditors committee for TH not a TH executive (but a claimant). Is that not the case?

i hear from a reliable source he was heavily involved in bankruptcy, but i have no clue on that.

he WAS an executive and a board member.

example of what i get from quick search >
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ley&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Michael Shelton, a member of the company's board of managers, brought charges against Tanner & Haley Resorts, alleging that the company owed him unpaid compensation and expenses. The original suit sought $46.2 million. Sources stated that Shelton was an executive vice president of Preferred Retreats Design Group Inc., the management arm of the company, until June 2007. He is also a member of the company's board of managers. According to court documents, he was not paid for work he did between June and October 2007. As part of a settlement reached, the company agreed to pay Shelton $300,000 in exchange for dropping $46.2 million in claims. As part of the settlement, Tanner & Haley will pay him a retroactive monthly salary of about $23,000 to cover the period between June 23 and Aug. 31, according to court documents.

can someone (especially former moderator) remind me what he said on DC4MS? my vague recollection is that he was attacking AK, but i really dont remember at this point, because bill pulled it so fast (moved to moderator forum) after shelton threatened to sue. apparently bill talked to him quite extensively.

most -- I imagine -- swearing off destination clubs entirely.

and one cant blame them considering the industry's behavior. whats unfortunate is that the model (in my mind - exchange free) is so great and innovative.

 

[DCworker]

MS

He was our boss for the last year or so at TH, was brought in by the lenders to refinance the business and then he ran the board. Probably the only person that cared about the employees or the members. Too bad he didn't buy UE because any of us would work for him again. He even fired Xroads when they didnt perform and then wrote the offering with the UCC.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

He was our boss for the last year or so at TH, was brought in by the lenders to refinance the business and then he ran the board. Probably the only person that cared about the employees or the members. Too bad he didn't buy UE because any of us would work for him again. He even fired Xroads when they didnt perform and then wrote the offering with the UCC.

ok now i remember one thing he did - talked about how great michael shelton was.



the DC industry can seriously not get any more ridiculous.

i thought all the positive discussion about TH bankruptcy was focused on CRO holly etlin
for example - http://www.destinationclubnews.com/...hies_For_Restructuring_A_Destination_Club.php
but i dont really recall at this point what was posted on DC4MS/TUG

 

[ClubsRDead]

You might want to check your facts Kage, Holly Etlin left the employ of TH before the sale UR even closed. In fact, it closed some year + later, that was at the direction of the board, who had terminated Xroads in July 07 for failure to perform.

It's my understanding that Etlin and Shelton are not only friendly, but have worked other projects together since.

All the banter on this board about nothing is probably why no one ever learns anything here - or responds about anything in a positive manner.

Do we know what to expect from Demeure this coming week? Do we know what the AK settlement provided? Those are issues I would consider to be important in todays club environment.

 

[TarheelTraveler]

He was our boss for the last year or so at TH, was brought in by the lenders to refinance the business and then he ran the board. Probably the only person that cared about the employees or the members. Too bad he didn't buy UE because any of us would work for him again. He even fired Xroads when they didnt perform and then wrote the offering with the UCC.

So both Kage and willmyclubmakeit are right then. Interesting stuff. He was clearly very much in the running to buy UE until Demeure got the deal.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

what facts? i said i didnt recall, and i stated no facts or opinions about holly. thats the only name i recall recently. i guess just DCnews. i thought there was discussion on DC4MS and/or TUG, but i stopped following UE that closely after a while. although i have read everything here i believe.

related - while DCnews/veras guys (many former PE) are overly positive in their coverage, the emails ive had with some are much more frank and in line with most DC posters.

so i take it the AK deal is NDA? thats unfortunate they didnt divide it up. (some NDA some not) curious how people are responding to it and how many are joining AK.

 

[travelguy]

can someone (especially former moderator) remind me what he said on DC4MS? my vague recollection is that he was attacking AK, but i really dont remember at this point, because bill pulled it so fast (moved to moderator forum) after shelton threatened to sue. apparently bill talked to him quite extensively.

Kage,

My foggy recollection is that same as yours. I remember that Shelton came quick and bullied Bill into removing the info from DC4MS (I would have done the same, life is too short to play internet litigation games). I know that the behind the scenes talk was not favorable regarding Shelton ... FWIW.

My impression of that whole episode was that Shelton doth protest too much for there not to be some truth in the deleted posts. Who knows??

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

http://destinationclubnews.com/News_DUO_by_Quintess_Introduces_Prelaunch_Public_Pricing.php

 

[ClubsRDead]

Awesome. This is obviously their way to do a "hurry up and join now" like Tousignant did before everyone paid the assessment. What it really shows is what we all know already - no one is joining Quintess' Duo program, and the "Big Q" is marred by a lengthy redemption list.

One has to assume that Ben and Pete are asking themselves right now if bringing on Healy was really a smart move.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

http://destinationclubnews.com/News_Rocksure_Property_Partners_With_Quintessentially.php

2 new funds from rocksure, which makes 3 that theyre currently selling (not incl bravo, with only 2 units left)

 

[ClubsRDead]

EE

In typical fashion (further exemplifying their lack of success in making an "offer" for UE) - the folks at Equity Estates have apparently decided to make "special pricing offers" to non-UE members. Meaning, the hocus-pocus offers they made to us for joining from our club demise (20 at XX terms, another 20 at YY terms, another 20 at "non-equity" terms) can be extended to people who aren't even members of our club.

Seems to me that the acceptance of their offer must be pretty low too.

Don't any of these clubs understand that when you "drop your shorts," so to speak, you just show how insignificant your offer really is? Didn't Demeure learn this from continually trying to "sweeten the pot?"

If someone actually stood behind their product to where they were raising prices and validating their plans - THAT might be enticing.

 

[NeilGoBlue]

I don't think it's a negative for the equity clubs to not stray from their model. By definition, there is very little that equity clubs can do to offer discounts.

I know this doesn't directly respond to what you are saying. But I, for one, am happy that AK didn't make a 'good' offer. I would be more concerned about my club if they did.

 

[ClubsRDead]

I think most of us are hopeful that AK makes a "good" offer, which merely might mean some reduced terms or benefits. No one should expect something for nothing.

We received yet another offer from Quintess Duo today to join them - now at 50% off of what was prior published.

Would appear that both EE and Duo have met their match, maybe AK is only one making sound decisions. Let's hope.

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Non-equity clubs particularly have always been able to wheel and deal like used car salesmen in making the sale, much to the detriment unfortunately of the long-term sustainability. Of course, if I was a member of one of those clubs that paid anywhere near full price, I'd feel like a complete schmuck. Are the members of these clubs not pitching a fit at this point? Supposedly UE had offered all sorts of vastly discounted and free memberships, so you'd think the UE members would not jump at any offers like that, but the psychology of the "deal" can be pretty powerful which I guess is what they're banking on.

I'm frankly a little surprised that EE has joined the fray, as it seems contradictory on its face to the whole model. Maybe they're saying the net asset value of the fund has dropped but that would be inconsistent with what they've always said (i.e., bought at the bottom of the market, etc.).

I have no idea what A&K will do if anything, but in the past (at least to my knowledge), they've not ever negotiated off of whatever the published offers are, and the current promotions have come out of A&K's sales commissions versus reducing what goes in the capital account for home purchases. The only exception that I can think of was when they dropped the prices after the housing crash, and did the pretty noble thing as far as members in mostly taking the price reductions from their commissions. Same with the 1 in: 1 out. They've sacrificed growth at the expense of keeping the resignation list low or non-existent. Again, I have no idea what they'll do, but I'd be surprised if it's anything that will impact the existing membership negatively. There will be some that will respect that decision and then some that will go elsewhere, but I guess I'd rather have it be that way.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

its never been public what DestiFan's EE deal was, and presumably others here like 3DH and someone else who recently said theyre happy with EE

only the lusso offer was public, and DestiFan and others confirmed the offer(s) changed from that

 

[TarheelTraveler]

DUO/Demeure

Just as an FYI, I've heard that Mark Cibik is no longer with Demeure. Anyone know why?

Separately, DUO email from Steve Healy states the following:

"sound financial business model where annual dues cover the Club's operating and interest costs"

Based on prior posts, I thought the equity investor covered the interest costs on the properties. This says otherwise. Maybe the explanation is this applies only to DUO and not Quintess.

FWIW, in a non-equity club, I think it makes sense for the owner of the real estate (the one getting any appreciation) to cover all (or at least a significant part) of the interest costs. I actually think that piece of the Quintess model makes sense, particularly if you've got a contingency plan if the person paying the interest stops paying the interest. Also, anyone know what is not covered by the dues?

The email also states that "DUO is the fastest growing destination club". Not sure how you measure that, but wouldn't Demeure or ER likely be faster growing at least in terms of new member count? With respect to ER, I guess you could measure it by %, so clearly starting from zero is going to result in a higher percentage than starting from 3,500. And I guess Demeure might not be considered a DC. I guess it doesn't really matter, given that prior clubs that are no longer around touted the same thing, so again I'm not sure that it means anything.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

duo dues, like m private residences and hideaways, are high considering stated property values

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Some neat activities for the kids with the RC DC.

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ritz-carlton-adventure-passport-children.html

"...Upon arrival at one of The Ritz-Carlton destination club locations, each child is presented with a personalized passport. The passport includes a section for each Club where five stamp imprints denote different Club specific activities relevant to the respective area. After all five stamps are collected at one location; a unique, plush Ritz-Carlton lion is presented to the adventurer. After visiting a minimum of five properties and gathering 25 stamps, the child will receive a large, stuffed Ritz-Carlton lion and a signed, framed certificate. The new Adventure Passport series is aimed at children ages five to 12 years old.

Examples of activities children can participate in to earn stamps include the following:

- The Ritz-Carlton Club and Residences, Kapalua Bay
Working closely with the cultural ambassador on property, the team in Kapalua Bay developed activities for the Keiki (children) that embrace Hawaiian culture. Keiki can join the Club's Ohana (family) for a lesson in the method of haku (to braid a lei) while gaining knowledge in the history and deeper meaning of the lei, or they can learn how to hula, which is considered the heartbeat of the Hawaiian people...."

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Hideaways - Growth in Asia

Hideaways Club "...has announced that they plan to more than triple the number of properties in their portfolio to 100 within four years, due in large part to a great deal of success the club has enjoyed in Asia.

Just over a year ago, The Hideaways Club opened an Asian office, looking to capitalize on an increasingly affluent market. "We are well aware of the number of high net worth individuals that reside in both Singapore and Hong Kong," said Mike Lamb, The Hideaway Club's Managing Director in Asia, in an interview last year following the opening. "Naturally for The Hideaways Club, these type of individuals fit the profile of our members - namely Chairmen, CEO's, FD's, Investment Bankers, partners of Law Firms and Medical Practices, Entrepreneurs, etc. For those who are looking to place funds into a global property portfolio with sensible returns and can see the value of subsidized luxury vacations, The Hideaways Club represents a unique investment opportunity."

"Asia property investment is rocketing," said The Hideaways Club Chairman Michael Balfour earlier this month while in Hong Kong. According to Balfour, the club expects 30% of their planned membership growth to come from Asia in the next three years, double the growth the club saw in 2010.

To better court this market, The Hideaways Club plans to add roughly 20 new residences in popular destinations throughout Asia such as Sri Lanka, Japan, Cambodia, and Vietnam.

At approximately 200 members at present, The Hideaways Club will ultimately count 600 members,"

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Ritz-Carlton Vail and ER Steamboat now open.

http://destinationclubnews.com/News_Ritz_Carlton_Destination_Club_Adds_Vail_To_Portfolio.php

"...Situated at the base of Vail Mountain in LionsHead Village, two, three, and four bedroom residences are available through the club's Home Club Membership. Floor plans for the properties range from approximately 1,300 to 2,874 square feet and each unit includes fully-equipped kitchens, hardwood flooring in living areas, contemporary room finishes and more...."

http://www.destinationclubnews.com/News_Exclusive_Resorts_Opens_Steamboat_Springs.php

"...Located at the base of the gondola, the four bedroom, four and one half bath residences average approximately 2,600 square feet, each with gourmet kitchens, interior finishes such as reclaimed timber and weathered metals, and spacious dining and living areas...."

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You might want to check your facts Kage, Holly Etlin left the employ of TH before the sale UR even closed. In fact, it closed some year + later, that was at the direction of the board, who had terminated Xroads in July 07 for failure to perform.

Actually, here are some of the actual facts.

1. Xroads was not terminated and was still acting as the CRO (and billing) right up until the the Court's confirmation of the CH11 plan in December 2007.

2. The sale of the assets went to contract in early 2007 and closed before the end of the year, not a "year + later" - more like 8-9 months. Members' travel was accomodated via a "management agreement" whereby UR basically ran T&H before the asset sale closed.

3. Etlin left Xroads (not T&H), so Xroads put in a different CRO at T&H after her departure. The initial asset sale agreement was executed while she was still CRO, but UR failed to close due to financing issues and the closing was extended several times.

And to clarify, Shelton was an employee (in sales IIRC) pre CH11 who ended up on the Board after the CH11 and thus had a role in the bankruptcy as a Board member of the DIP. He certainly was not part of the UCC in any way.

'Dem's the facts.....

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

so are people liking the settlement? surely you can say that much.

 

[ClubsRDead]

We received our settlement check first of the week and have also had conversation with AK about their offering. The website is very vague, almost worthless but so too was the announcement they sent out.

We'll probably do something with them but we're waiting on more information now. Encouraging, but nothing specific - maybe that's how they wanted it to be.

We also heard from our planner yesterday in KC; they've let her go and it sounds like only 1-2 planners are to be temporarily retained by Demeure and will be working from home; meaning very few signed up and a couple transitional jobs available. No real surprise there and hopefully those who didn't get offered something will be able to find new employment very soon in this economy.

 

[NeilGoBlue]

CRD,

Are you looking at the standard offering of AK? Or are they offering you something 'special' as part of the settlement?