There was no realistic way of doing that then, Chapter 11 or 7 is the only way when the owners are management.
-
TUG started 32 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!
Read about our 32nd anniversary: Happy 32nd Birthday TUG! -
TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!
All subscribers auto-entered to win all free TUG membership giveaways!
Visit TUG on Youtube! -
TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!
Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars -
Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
-
Now through the end of the year you can join or renew your TUG membership at the lowest price ever offered! Learn More!
-
Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!
Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners! -
Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!
All T-shirt options here!
Recent Destination Club News
- Thread starter TarheelTraveler
- Start date
There was no realistic way of doing that then, Chapter 11 or 7 is the only way when the owners are management.
We were only aware of about the '400 or so trouble makers' through the club reps. The Club really tried to play both sides against each other in a blame game incase all went for not. We already felt helpless after being herded through the PE / UR merger shortly after joining with no guidance or options from the Club. From that point on I knew we were not in a good place or represented by people with our best interests at heart. I wish we had been able to make contact back then as well.
PuntaEscape
newbie
Its time!
Well, by my watch it is 6:25 Eastern time. I believe that that is at least an hour after close of business. This group does not know what truth or respect mean. Darn the trips were great however. If it were me I would have sent a message at 5 stating more time was required. Not these guys. I have also asked a question about a Thanksgiving trip to Mexico. Siimply asked if it was safe to order tickets, but i have also heard nothing.
Don't they say no news is good news. Somehow I have a feel the COB news will be very good until you digest and realize we are right back where we were, send money and get 15 more free days. JT are you awake.
JIM MUST GO.....
Well, by my watch it is 6:25 Eastern time. I believe that that is at least an hour after close of business. This group does not know what truth or respect mean. Darn the trips were great however. If it were me I would have sent a message at 5 stating more time was required. Not these guys. I have also asked a question about a Thanksgiving trip to Mexico. Siimply asked if it was safe to order tickets, but i have also heard nothing.
Don't they say no news is good news. Somehow I have a feel the COB news will be very good until you digest and realize we are right back where we were, send money and get 15 more free days. JT are you awake.
JIM MUST GO.....
TarheelTraveler
newbie
http://destinationclubnews.com/News...s_Join_Together_To_Form_Member_Only_Group.php
DC News article on member group.
DC News article on member group.
Kagehitokiri2
newbie
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,009
- Reaction score
- 2
sorting through emails..
in email from X >
in email from Y >
in email from X >
unfortunately im not sure when ill get around to looking at assessor maps
in email from Y >
Last edited:
ClubsRDead
newbie
Of course, Jim will now just tell us that you had to actually be open for business in order for their to be a "close of business" during the day...
golfisking
newbie
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
I have to say that some of you guys are REALLY funny. Wish we all had a chance to meet in some productive manner. At this point I am thinking that I would take a deal where I lose the deposit and become a dues paying member of another club that has an ounce of integrity. Of course this statement is non-binding. 
Yep, they can't even say by close of business Fort Collins time anymore, so it's past COB in KC and Orlando.
Obviously you should NOT buy your airline tickets at this point. It was posted earlier that the KC staff was told not to come in today (I also never got a response from a trip I tried to book yesterday).
We may be in a better place in a few weeks or months, but it won't be under this mgmt party. The last of the bridges have been burned by cancelling upcoming vacations and shutting down customer service.
I paid the assessment, without even batting a lash. This was around the same time that Q doubled its rates and ER was about to roughly double the rates for its earliest members (eventually modified to rise at a scaled rate). I understood the industry challenges, and how all three of the biggies were struggling to generate positive cash flow with referrals drying up and investors weren't subsidizing the losses as real estate prices were going down.
However, this late push for solvency -- at the 11th hour instead of several months ago when payments were already falling behind -- is not indicative of the open management that I signed up for when I joined PE and the UE that I thought I was getting myself into. I hope JT can pull another rabbit out of the hat, but I'm not springing for the hat again.
Which club is that? All of them just want your money. They will tell you anything.
golfisking
newbie
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm wondering if anyone knows a member that is in a home right now and have they gotten any vacate calls, etc?
ClubsRDead
newbie
Wouldn't it have just been simpler if he had put another poll on the website...
1. Do you want your money back right now Y or N
2. Do you want me to remain in control of the club Y or N
3. Would you like to continue with all reservations that you have on the books at this time? Y N
4. Do you want to give me all of your money so I can continue to make bad decisions? Y N
5. Did I sound genuine when I said I was willing to cut my $500k salary (which you pay) in half until we got profitable?
6. Are you upset that I have a $2000/mo company leased vehicle and two (2) complimentary, "lifetime" and "due free" memberships - one in Signature, and one in Elite? Y N
6. What is the average # of bankruptcies in a destination club that each of you have been through? 1 2 2 or more
Had JT cared about us our phones would have been answered the last couple days so at least we could have been told how screwed we are. At TH all sorts of people called and at least gave the impression that they cared and were trying to work something out. I only lost one booking and they found me an alternate.
At a minimum, before he sent the planners home he could have just had them impose our member information onto claim forms so we didn't have to hassle with that. I suspect they have many of ours from the last time and could just change the case number.
1. Do you want your money back right now Y or N
2. Do you want me to remain in control of the club Y or N
3. Would you like to continue with all reservations that you have on the books at this time? Y N
4. Do you want to give me all of your money so I can continue to make bad decisions? Y N
5. Did I sound genuine when I said I was willing to cut my $500k salary (which you pay) in half until we got profitable?
6. Are you upset that I have a $2000/mo company leased vehicle and two (2) complimentary, "lifetime" and "due free" memberships - one in Signature, and one in Elite? Y N
6. What is the average # of bankruptcies in a destination club that each of you have been through? 1 2 2 or more
Had JT cared about us our phones would have been answered the last couple days so at least we could have been told how screwed we are. At TH all sorts of people called and at least gave the impression that they cared and were trying to work something out. I only lost one booking and they found me an alternate.
At a minimum, before he sent the planners home he could have just had them impose our member information onto claim forms so we didn't have to hassle with that. I suspect they have many of ours from the last time and could just change the case number.
Perhaps Jim is hiding out in one of the Hawaii homes...by his watch he still has 3 more hours.....
My guess is that he is trying to close something with someone and hoping he can pull yet another rabbit out of his hat. That way he can send out a successful email. I don't see it happening but we all know his methodology by now...
My guess is that he is trying to close something with someone and hoping he can pull yet another rabbit out of his hat. That way he can send out a successful email. I don't see it happening but we all know his methodology by now...
TarheelTraveler
newbie
Was Y being sarcastic or was Y confused and thinking about UE's purchase of DC4MS?
How can a DC news site be objective if it's owned by a DC?
I did notice that there is no longer DC advertising on there. If the site was purchased by a DC, it would make sense that no other DC would pay to advertise on it.
ClubsRDead
newbie
Email From JT - Note The CRO is Involved Now...
Dear Members:
We sincerely want to thank you all for your swift response to the
Member POLL over the weekend. Nearly 1,000 Members participated, the
votes were tallied and the results were approximately 2:1 against the
conversion to a Member-owned Club on the terms proposed. The support
of our Members is critical for our business.
The Company continues to explore all alternatives, including ongoing
discussions with a number of parties regarding a potential
acquisition and we will keep you apprised of developments in the
forthcoming days. We are aware of the frustrations many of you have
experienced in the last couple of days in attempting to communicate
with the Company and also with regard to timely Member communications
and we are working hard to rectify this within the constraints of our
current situation. Thanks for your continued support and patience.
Warm regards,
Jim Tousignant Sheon Karol
President & CEO CRO
Dear Members:
We sincerely want to thank you all for your swift response to the
Member POLL over the weekend. Nearly 1,000 Members participated, the
votes were tallied and the results were approximately 2:1 against the
conversion to a Member-owned Club on the terms proposed. The support
of our Members is critical for our business.
The Company continues to explore all alternatives, including ongoing
discussions with a number of parties regarding a potential
acquisition and we will keep you apprised of developments in the
forthcoming days. We are aware of the frustrations many of you have
experienced in the last couple of days in attempting to communicate
with the Company and also with regard to timely Member communications
and we are working hard to rectify this within the constraints of our
current situation. Thanks for your continued support and patience.
Warm regards,
Jim Tousignant Sheon Karol
President & CEO CRO
PuntaEscape
newbie
SEC
Since we are a pubicly traded company, I thought that all material conditions were required to be communicated to share holders in a timely manner. It would appear to me that defaulting on loan agreements in June was material and therefore needed to be disclosed. As a share holder have yet to even see the last 10K from the company much less in three months receive absolutely no notification of potential bankruptcy. This is criminal.
Since we are a pubicly traded company, I thought that all material conditions were required to be communicated to share holders in a timely manner. It would appear to me that defaulting on loan agreements in June was material and therefore needed to be disclosed. As a share holder have yet to even see the last 10K from the company much less in three months receive absolutely no notification of potential bankruptcy. This is criminal.
PuntaEscape
newbie
Misspelling
Publicly traded company above. I guess this was a freudian slip.
Publicly traded company above. I guess this was a freudian slip.
PuntaEscape
newbie
No Confidence
Why would anyone vote against a possible option in a non-binding poll? We effectively took the eguity option off the table. I voted against. Why? Because I have been lied to, told half truths and continue to be told that service is number one etc. etc. etc. I have no confidence in the leadership of this club, they can't even calculate close of business. 24 hours to count 1000 votes, that is only 44 per hour, I guess it really was a lot of work. Even Bernie Madoff kept the scam going for 10 years or so. This is not really a vote against the equity option, it is a vote against Jim T and Rich, ( where is he) Keith.
Why would anyone vote against a possible option in a non-binding poll? We effectively took the eguity option off the table. I voted against. Why? Because I have been lied to, told half truths and continue to be told that service is number one etc. etc. etc. I have no confidence in the leadership of this club, they can't even calculate close of business. 24 hours to count 1000 votes, that is only 44 per hour, I guess it really was a lot of work. Even Bernie Madoff kept the scam going for 10 years or so. This is not really a vote against the equity option, it is a vote against Jim T and Rich, ( where is he) Keith.
Oddly enough, I hadn't seen the last missive. It turns out that it went into my Spam folder. I guess that should be telling me something.
As for 10-K and 10-Q filings, they are always available online:
http://ir.ultimateescapes.com/sec.cfm
Or through the SEC site itself.
Quarterly reports rarely -- if ever -- get mailed out. There may have not been an official annual report go out earlier this year since the company has just completed its deal to go public, but even then you wouldn't have read about any shortcomings back in April.
And I don't think it took this long to count the nay votes. Perhaps JT was buying time for a deal that failed to materialize (as of tonight). Either way, every day that he keeps the customer support center closed with folks in dissarray over immediate vacation plans, the longer the odds that the club can get back on its feet with present management.
I'm considering myself lucky that I don't have another trip planned for another two months -- and then nothing until early next year. I seriously wonder what's going on with folks set to travel in the next week or two.
As for 10-K and 10-Q filings, they are always available online:
http://ir.ultimateescapes.com/sec.cfm
Or through the SEC site itself.
Quarterly reports rarely -- if ever -- get mailed out. There may have not been an official annual report go out earlier this year since the company has just completed its deal to go public, but even then you wouldn't have read about any shortcomings back in April.
And I don't think it took this long to count the nay votes. Perhaps JT was buying time for a deal that failed to materialize (as of tonight). Either way, every day that he keeps the customer support center closed with folks in dissarray over immediate vacation plans, the longer the odds that the club can get back on its feet with present management.
I'm considering myself lucky that I don't have another trip planned for another two months -- and then nothing until early next year. I seriously wonder what's going on with folks set to travel in the next week or two.
ClubsRDead
newbie
How come I never heard about the "rogue" group of 400 or so members? I would have obviously joined.
I had forgotten about this little "gem" of a presentation they used to convert the company to a public offering. It's a shame they blew so much of our cash on this transaction:
http://www.secureamericacorp.net/up...capes_Investor_Presentation-_FINAL_9_3_09.pdf
I guess when he put the show on the other night we were the "pentamillionaires" referred to herein. However, my favorite slide is the last one, #40 - which states:
• Large destination clubs have been reasonably resilient through the global
market downturn, due to strong member appeal, critical operational scale and affluent membership demographics
– High-net-worth member base has continued to pay annual dues and maintain frequent travel plans despite a broader slow-down in business and leisure travel (1st Quarter 2009 busiest quarter ever for volume of member travel)
• Ultimate Escapes’ property values have held better than overall market-as
evidenced by recent appraisals completed by the Company’s lender (CapitalSource)
• Tremendous property acquisition opportunities in soft luxury real estate
markets during 2009 and 2010
– Successful transaction with Secure America will generate minimum of $20
million of new capital at closing, and potentially raise additional $100+ million from future warrant conversion, which could be used to acquire “distressed” clubs and luxury real estate
– The UltimateReciprocity Program capitalizes on excess current capacity
without making new property acquisitions
If bullet #1 were true, we wouldn't be where we are. If #2 were true, Cap Source wouldn't be where they are, and if #3 were true - we'd have some assets to travel to and wouldn't have had all of our reservations dumped because we're in leased homes having sold so many "owned homes."
But...life goes on, right? Very impressive presentation JT and team, the "seasoned management team" sure pulled it off.
I had forgotten about this little "gem" of a presentation they used to convert the company to a public offering. It's a shame they blew so much of our cash on this transaction:
http://www.secureamericacorp.net/up...capes_Investor_Presentation-_FINAL_9_3_09.pdf
I guess when he put the show on the other night we were the "pentamillionaires" referred to herein. However, my favorite slide is the last one, #40 - which states:
• Large destination clubs have been reasonably resilient through the global
market downturn, due to strong member appeal, critical operational scale and affluent membership demographics
– High-net-worth member base has continued to pay annual dues and maintain frequent travel plans despite a broader slow-down in business and leisure travel (1st Quarter 2009 busiest quarter ever for volume of member travel)
• Ultimate Escapes’ property values have held better than overall market-as
evidenced by recent appraisals completed by the Company’s lender (CapitalSource)
• Tremendous property acquisition opportunities in soft luxury real estate
markets during 2009 and 2010
– Successful transaction with Secure America will generate minimum of $20
million of new capital at closing, and potentially raise additional $100+ million from future warrant conversion, which could be used to acquire “distressed” clubs and luxury real estate
– The UltimateReciprocity Program capitalizes on excess current capacity
without making new property acquisitions
If bullet #1 were true, we wouldn't be where we are. If #2 were true, Cap Source wouldn't be where they are, and if #3 were true - we'd have some assets to travel to and wouldn't have had all of our reservations dumped because we're in leased homes having sold so many "owned homes."
But...life goes on, right? Very impressive presentation JT and team, the "seasoned management team" sure pulled it off.
Kagehitokiri2
newbie
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,009
- Reaction score
- 2
just thought id post, as usual no claims re veracity. but also no coverage of UE... pretty big news... even something ridiculously short. veras may be editorializing some (some of it simply being blunt like discussion here?) rather than just posting blurbs, but a bunch of them were PE guys.
finally. awesome. nearly everyone voted, about 666 to 333.
i wonder if they really got as much as $5mm in march.
Last edited:
HereWeGoAgain
newbie
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2010
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 0
The near term future.....
A guess...
Filing Ch 11 this week or early next. That eliminates some unsecured debt, the so-called redemption plan obligations (which were always funky accounting), and allows leases and other contracts to be terminated.
Capital Source provides some cash to keep things going for a (very) short time - sort of a DIP loan but with a short time horizon.
Travel continues for some, but cancellations occur - maybe worse than in T&H.
The CRO and CS pursue a few "options" with a primary focus on getting CS as much $$ as possible now (and here's the only hope for members) or over time. Maybe CS would understand that the overhead in UE was the killer and there are alternate business models. In any case, it seems likely CS has already reserved against this loan, don't you think???
If CS realizes the real estate is worth more in a functioning club rather than a fast liquidation, maybe they would take a haircut and allow a new operator to come into the game.
Here's where it gets interesting - despite the possibilities of other DCs having an interest, the highest value for CS might just be to work with the members to design an equity based club with a separate management company. No JT or RK involvement, period.
The MOC ("member owned club") would require some new capital to pay down a bit of the CS loan, so who knows where that would come from - the members?? an investor?? a government bailout like GM?? (the last is a joke, btw..)
What form of a MOC would you support (if any) and would you commit new money (maybe $10,000 to $20,000 from 500 or folks to get some new cash into the business)??? Maybe a design with some folks putting in $$ and getting an ownership interest in the real estate (admittedly with a big mortgage) and others just paying dues might work if CS gets some $$ from a few property sales and takes a haircut on the balance.
The question is, would the members support such a deal? So that's my question to the board....
Does a MOC make sense and would you support it??
A guess...
Filing Ch 11 this week or early next. That eliminates some unsecured debt, the so-called redemption plan obligations (which were always funky accounting), and allows leases and other contracts to be terminated.
Capital Source provides some cash to keep things going for a (very) short time - sort of a DIP loan but with a short time horizon.
Travel continues for some, but cancellations occur - maybe worse than in T&H.
The CRO and CS pursue a few "options" with a primary focus on getting CS as much $$ as possible now (and here's the only hope for members) or over time. Maybe CS would understand that the overhead in UE was the killer and there are alternate business models. In any case, it seems likely CS has already reserved against this loan, don't you think???
If CS realizes the real estate is worth more in a functioning club rather than a fast liquidation, maybe they would take a haircut and allow a new operator to come into the game.
Here's where it gets interesting - despite the possibilities of other DCs having an interest, the highest value for CS might just be to work with the members to design an equity based club with a separate management company. No JT or RK involvement, period.
The MOC ("member owned club") would require some new capital to pay down a bit of the CS loan, so who knows where that would come from - the members?? an investor?? a government bailout like GM?? (the last is a joke, btw..)
What form of a MOC would you support (if any) and would you commit new money (maybe $10,000 to $20,000 from 500 or folks to get some new cash into the business)??? Maybe a design with some folks putting in $$ and getting an ownership interest in the real estate (admittedly with a big mortgage) and others just paying dues might work if CS gets some $$ from a few property sales and takes a haircut on the balance.
The question is, would the members support such a deal? So that's my question to the board....
Does a MOC make sense and would you support it??
Kagehitokiri2
newbie
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,009
- Reaction score
- 2
cost of management company (and "their" cost running properties) is an issue.
although luxus and rocksure do have barebones models to examine.
seems to me it works great for Q to have lusso, UE, etc go bankrupt and then pick up at least some members if nothing else. they might simply be waiting for same thing with oyster. the whole UE/everlands deal looks ridiculous now. but again, Q could easily be looking at Q's long term best interest.
although luxus and rocksure do have barebones models to examine.
seems to me it works great for Q to have lusso, UE, etc go bankrupt and then pick up at least some members if nothing else. they might simply be waiting for same thing with oyster. the whole UE/everlands deal looks ridiculous now. but again, Q could easily be looking at Q's long term best interest.
Last edited:
willmyclubmakeit
newbie
UE calendar
I had not looked at availability for a while and decided to take a look and noticed that several properties now show no availability (Both Silver Lake properties in Deer Valley, Bend, OR and others (of course I have reservations at the first two). Does anyone know when these changes were made and if they are new? Any insight?
I had not looked at availability for a while and decided to take a look and noticed that several properties now show no availability (Both Silver Lake properties in Deer Valley, Bend, OR and others (of course I have reservations at the first two). Does anyone know when these changes were made and if they are new? Any insight?
TarheelTraveler
newbie
While I know that you can't confirm, I assume that you're one of the litigants with whom there is a settlement and certain property set aside for sale. I remember seeing that in one of the filings. I suspect that some folks at this point regret not joining you.