RCI Weeks to offer value transparency

[Carolinian]

Mel, as usual you are trying to set up a straw man and then knock it down. Some resorts have been provided information and others have not even been told a change is coming, much less given any information on it. Do you understand now or do I have to keep explaining it to you??????

In terms of a formula, there is an obvious time of deposit adjustment, which makes sense. Otherwise, it should be pure supply and demand. It should be a relatively simple thing to publish. The key is to get it out in the open and make certain that they are not putting their thumb on the scales on other things like double counting some things that are merely drivers of demand.

RCI publishes its formula for qualifying award status. They also provide all the supporting data on that to resorts monthly. Real transparency screams that they do that for their Points Lite numbers as well.

Who cares if a resort is ''brand new''? I cannot think of many less significant factors in choosing an exchange. Location is number one by far. You take the brand new resort in Podunk, Iowa; I'll take that older resort Allen House in London, thank you!

You wouldn't like the old RCI back, as in before all the rental shananigans that you support (or in your language ''try to put in perspective'')? Personally I liked having a lot of good weeks availible that just aren't there any more because they are being rented out instead. Years ago I could see much more availibility in the UK, for example, with an OBX blue week, than I can see today with a summer UK week (and that week is form a resort that itself almost never shows availibility any time of the year).

RCI did not just ''allow'' the sales tactics you complain of by developers. They created marketing materials that were part and parcel of them. Now RCI is changing the rules that were explained in RCI's own materials and were the basis upon which many purchased timeshare. That is just underhanded.

Your last line reminds me of the statement by a Congressional leader on a major recent piece of legislation that ''we need to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it''. No, it was incumbent on Congress and it is incumbent on RCI to explain such changes beforehand. The public should not have a pig in a poke crammed down their throats. RCI should come clean and reveal the program with a six month period for those who do not like it to get their deposits out of the system before it hits. Airlines have the integrity to do that for their frequent flyers when there are significant program changes with mergers. RCI should have the integrity to do that with this sea change in their program.

RCI's dealings with both its resort affiliates and its individual members on this change of exchange regime totally lack transparency.

As to the issue of fiduciary relationships, or quasi-fiduciary relationships, I think the industry insiders who spoke to this issue in The Timeshare Beat were a lot more convincing than your position. An exchange company is a LOT more similar to a bank in its operations than it is to a retail business, and timeshare depositors should be protected much like bank depositors. The issue of RCI's T&C being an unenforcible contract of adhesion was also thoroughly aired there, but I am sure you disagree with that too.

So which is it - RCI isn't sharing the information with the smaller resorts, or is sharing? On the one hand, you accuse them of sharing only with those who will rejoice over the way they will be treated under the new system, but you than state you're hearing from people who have in fact seen numbers, and are unhappy. Which is it?

Are these people who are complaining being shown the big picture - what the numbers are at all resorts - or what their own numbers are. If they're not being shown the big picture, how can they judge whether the system is fair? Perhaps if all these people are unhappy, it suggests that the number of points will be lower accross the board.

Consider also that your (and their) assumptions about demand might bot in fact be true. You assume that because there is almost always availability in Orlando that it is overbuilt, and that demand is low in everything but peak season - you use a chart from RCI Europe to try to prove your point. But experience tells me that demand is actually fairly steady all year, and higher than most other places.

Then what exactly is this "formula" that you want RCI to divulge? If in fact trade power is only about supply and demand, then there really isn't a formula to publish, is there?

This is your opinion. Some of us don't think Cendat damaged the system any more than would have happened if it hadn't been sold to them. There are many factors that have caused changes, and while Cendant has seen us through most of those changes, and made some poor decisions, I don't think they are any different than some of the decisions made by other smaller exchange companies.

As usual, you accuse me of something I havne't done. I don't defend RCI's rental program, but try to put it in perspective. Did you look at the numbers in RCI's disclosure about the quality of week that were put into the exchange program from outside? Have you even considered what many of those week must have been, by definition?

How many TUG members alone have exchanged into brand now resorts? How many of those weeks had to have come from developer deposits? Those are not member deposits!

No, I have in fact said that RCI has allowed these sales tactics to be used, and has allowed their promotional materials to be used in an inappropriate way, but untimately the responsibility lies both with the developer for doing so, and with the people who have bought from them without doing any due diligence. People wouldn't spend anywhere near that kind of money on any other purchase without doing some research first. If it sounds to good to be true...

RCI does not have a fiduciary responsibility to its members, and wishing they did will not cause them to have one either. They have contractual obligation to provide an exchange service. Before Cendant purchased RCI, Developer inventory made its way into the exchange system, and RCI gave bonus week certificates" to the developer in exchange. We all know how valuable those were, don't we? At some point, the developer decided they didn't want those - so the question becomes either how to compensate the developers for their inventory, or how to satisfy demand for their resorts without that inventory. Obviously RCI chose the former - take the inventory and find a way to satisfy the developers.

We're having these discussions about RCI rentals because someone thinks RCI has cheated someone. Perhaps the people who deposited those weeks should be asked if they were given something of equivalent value in exchange. If they were, what RCI chose to do with their deposits is moot! RCI met their contractual (and even fiduciary if you believe it exists) obligation.

You say you would love to have the old RCI back. Well, that's not going to happen, and I suspect many of us don't want it back. Do you really want to return to the days when you called RCI and asked for an exchange, and they gave you only what you asked for, didn't offer that there was in fact a 3BR unit available instead of the 1BR that would fit your family of 4? Do you really wish to return to a system where owners have no idea what their week is worth, and have to rely on what the salesmen tell them, with not real backup?

You say on the one hand that you want RCI to be a great exchange company, but on the other hand you insist that their attempt to do just that is phony. Give them a chance - if it's really as bad as the doom and gloom you're predicting, I'll follow you out that door, but don't encourage people to slam the door before even seeing what the changes are.

 

[AwayWeGo]

PFD Availble For "Points Lite" Change Back ?

We will keep the surplus points if our week is worth more than the exchanged week.

Sounds pretty much like just another straight-points timeshare exchange system -- essentially similar to the basics of the existing RCI Points system -- so it looks like what we're in line for is 2 parallel RCI points-based timeshare exchange systems operating side by side. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

I can't help wondering how the switch from RCI Weeks to RCI Points Lite will affect the interconnections & interrelationships between RCI Points & the new RCI Points Lite (formerly, traditional RCI Weeks).

For example, will straight-weeks owners still be able to do PFD ?

With "change back" as a feature of Points Lite, will straight-weeks owners be able to do PFD with the "change back" they get when they use a large el primo Points Lite week as trade bait for exchanging into a humbler, off-season timeshare ?

However the details of Pointe Lite play out, they're bound to keep us TUG-BBS types on our toes -- not to mention causing our friend Carolinian to reach for the Maalox as the RCI timeshare world lurches farther & farther from the pre-Cendant Good Old Days.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

["Roger"]

...She stated that all changes are positive. Other changes are;

1. We'll be able to see the value of our week before we deposit it, and see how the value of the deposit increases the further the check-in is away.

2. We will keep the surplus points if our week is worth more than the exchanged week.

3. We will see all available resorts and be able to deposit multiple weeks to qualify for a week worth more than any of our single weeks.

I look forward to the change.

These are all positive changes. I would add another biggie: People will now be able to view how much a unit is valued before they buy. (The RCI representative probably did not mention this because she was speaking to an existing owner.)

Disney, Hyatt, Hilton, and Marriott are all well known names with reputations to defend. I don't see it as an accident that all of them avoid the use of the word "timesharing" (and did so going back to the good all days - the word conjured up scam, etc. even then, maybe especially, back then).

What else do these systems have in common? With the recent conversion by Marriott, they have all chosen to use a points based system. Not surprising, given the cited reasons above which make for a more fair system.

I might mention, in closing, that not one of them reveal how they have decided which units get how many points. Apparently, they neither see this as essential information, nor, believe that giving prices without the method for determining these prices is worse than not giving prices at all.

 

[Carolinian]

While most thinking people are simply not going to do the 2 m/f's plus one exchange fee for one trade, as simply renting from RCI is likely to be a better deal, you do raise an interesting question, and one I have not heard any inklings about. That is the heretofore scandalously fraudulent (to Weeks) relationship between Points and Weeks based on the crossover grids.

It seems to me that RCI will probably be forced to have some multiplier to convert one to the other now that it has complete and detailed sets of numbers for both systems. That would be one of the few positives of this new regime, I will admit, as the current grids allow Points members to raid the better Weeks inventory at ripoff points levels. Maintaining the current grids in the face of having fuller sets of values published for both systems would seem to just set themselves up for another lawsuit (this one hopefully by a state AG not by an unethical shyster class action attorney like the last one).

Sounds pretty much like just another straight-points timeshare exchange system -- essentially similar to the basics of the existing RCI Points system -- so it looks like what we're in line for is 2 parallel RCI points-based timeshare exchange systems operating side by side. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

I can't help wondering how the switch from RCI Weeks to RCI Points Lite will affect the interconnections & interrelationships between RCI Points & the new RCI Points Lite (formerly, traditional RCI Weeks).

For example, will straight-weeks owners still be able to do PFD ?

With "change back" as a feature of Points Lite, will straight-weeks owners be able to do PFD with the "change back" they get when they use a large el primo Points Lite week as trade bait for exchanging into a humbler, off-season timeshare ?

However the details of Pointe Lite play out, they're bound to keep us TUG-BBS types on our toes -- not to mention causing our friend Carolinian to reach for the Maalox as the RCI timeshare world lurches farther & farther from the pre-Cendant Good Old Days.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Tommart]

Maybe true for you

While most thinking people are simply not going to do the 2 m/f's plus one exchange fee for one trade, as simply renting from RCI is likely to be a better deal.......

I won't think twice about giving up two weeks.

I pay $525 MF for my August two-bedroom locked Woodstone unit. I trade it as two one-bedrooms.

Last year, I traded one for a week at Paniolo Greens on the Big Island, and the second for a week at Lifetime in Honolulu.

I just checked. I could rent a week at Paniolo Greens for at little over $1,300 before taxes through RCI. I'll take the $169 exchange plus half of my annual MF. Even if it would have required giving up both sides, "$525 + $169" is better than renting a prime resort/week.

By the way, we have never stayed at Woodstone in August. The week has too much trade value. We use bonus weeks for Woodstone and typically stay in late May. This year we stayed over Labor Day weekend.

We look for opportunities to use bonus weeks, which is a variation of renting.

But if I need to give up both sides of my unit for a wonderful resort/week, I will.

 

[markel]

I'm kinda of following this thread on and off and am trying to digest what to expect with the "new" RCI enhancements. BUT, what will this mean with Wyndham pts. deposits? Obviously no fixed week at a resort to assign value to, so what do you think I should expect when I deposit my Wyndham pts. i.e. 28,42,70K etc. Will these deposits be assigned a value that I can see?

Mark

 

[bnoble]

I don't think anyone knows for sure. We'll have to see. I think it is *likely* that it will be assigned a visible value, but you never know until you know.

 

[MuranoJo]

I agree. There is so much conjecture and heresy, who really knows for sure.
I'm just glad I got my two weeks in HI next year locked in, and I'll play with whatever comes of this, come what may.

 

[Mel]

I'm kinda of following this thread on and off and am trying to digest what to expect with the "new" RCI enhancements. BUT, what will this mean with Wyndham pts. deposits? Obviously no fixed week at a resort to assign value to, so what do you think I should expect when I deposit my Wyndham pts. i.e. 28,42,70K etc. Will these deposits be assigned a value that I can see?

I would expect RCI to come up with a conversion factor, just as they do for most point systems that operate within RCI Points. What should be interesting is to see if that conversion factor takes into account the time of deposit.

When you deposit 28,000 Wyndham points, right now they assign you a unit the Wyndham previously deposited based on usage patterns, and I would expect RCI to give Wyndham the same incentive as other owners to deposit 1 year out. If some of Wyndham's deposits were made 1 year out, and others 10 months out as they got a better idea of this year's usage, their individual deposits might have different values - will they work with RCI to assign equal numbers of points among the Wyndham members, or will it be first-come first-serve (or some other system) where you get whatever week is next in the queu? Fairness would suggest you should get an average value, and still might result in variability from month to month.It also would require extra steps on the part of RCI - which may be why RCI will be shut down for an extended time before the new system's release.

 

[Mel]

Carolinian,
I agree with your comments--especially that supply and demand will rule things. RCI could try to give one unit higher ratings, but if the ratings are too high, the supply/demand will get out of balance.

Carolinian's argument is that supply and demand won't in fact rule - he is afraid that RCI will give a unit higher ratings, and it will be allowed to keep those ratings. He has no faith that they system will adjust for supply and demand.

Your point, that poor demand and excessive supply will drive down the value of a resort given a too-high rating, has been made several times, but Carolinian insists we are all wrong.

He also doesn't believe that you or anyone else will be happy to trade multiple weeks for a single great trade.

 

[MichaelColey]

For those who have seen any details, is there any information you can share publicly? Numerical ranges of trading values? Granularity of the values? Difference between the worst weeks, average weeks and best weeks? How the timing of the deposit affects trading value?

One potential positive for resorts is that they might be able to collect some maintenance fees earlier when people learn that you can maximize your trading value by depositing X months out. (RCI says 9 months, but many have said 12.) I suspect that many deposit 3-6 months out (sometimes because they don't pay maintenance fees until they're due) and don't get full trading value.

 

[bnoble]

What should be interesting is to see if that conversion factor takes into account the time of deposit.

When you deposit 28,000 Wyndham points, right now they assign you a unit the Wyndham previously deposited based on usage patterns, and I would expect RCI to give Wyndham the same incentive as other owners to deposit 1 year out.

Not quite. Most of the deposits are "generic" deposits, and assigned the "average" from all deposits in their size/season. You have to explicitly ask for a "visible" which is assigned from a pre-deposited week, but those are uncommon and becoming downright rare.

I expect two things to happen.

1: All Wyndham deposits will be generic (averaged) going forward, completely decoupling "owner" deposits from deposited units.

2: The average values will be assigned "known" credit values, just like everything else.

That's just a guess though. I have no reason to believe that's really what will happen.

 

[bnoble]

For those who have seen any details, is there any information you can share publicly?

I vaguely recall seeing some details, but I can't remember if it was here or OT.

 

[krj9999]

Saw this on the Grandview owners website, I haven't received the details yet, perhaps they will come in the mail today. FYI Michael, MFs are unchanged at Grandview for 2011.

RCI Enhancement (Weeks Owners Only)
10/15/2010

By now you should have received the New RCI Enhancement information that offers you greater flexibility and more choices.

Please be reminded in order to take advantage and Maximize your Week(s) Trading Power with RCI your Maintenance fee must be paid in full on or before January 1, 2011.

Please visit our website at www.dailymanagementresorts.com to make payment and download the Owner Options Form and let us know how you plan to utilize your 2011 Week. Or contact your home resort for assistance.

Please visit this RCI link for more information

www.rci.com/weeksenhancements

For those who have seen any details, is there any information you can share publicly? Numerical ranges of trading values? Granularity of the values? Difference between the worst weeks, average weeks and best weeks? How the timing of the deposit affects trading value?

One potential positive for resorts is that they might be able to collect some maintenance fees earlier when people learn that you can maximize your trading value by depositing X months out. (RCI says 9 months, but many have said 12.) I suspect that many deposit 3-6 months out (sometimes because they don't pay maintenance fees until they're due) and don't get full trading value.

 

[Carolinian]

Lockouts are a whole different ballgame and the economics are different. If I had a lockout, I would trade it as seperate units, too. I wonder if the new Points Lite will still allow you to do that and achieve the same value?

I won't think twice about giving up two weeks.

I pay $525 MF for my August two-bedroom locked Woodstone unit. I trade it as two one-bedrooms.

Last year, I traded one for a week at Paniolo Greens on the Big Island, and the second for a week at Lifetime in Honolulu.

I just checked. I could rent a week at Paniolo Greens for at little over $1,300 before taxes through RCI. I'll take the $169 exchange plus half of my annual MF. Even if it would have required giving up both sides, "$525 + $169" is better than renting a prime resort/week.

By the way, we have never stayed at Woodstone in August. The week has too much trade value. We use bonus weeks for Woodstone and typically stay in late May. This year we stayed over Labor Day weekend.

We look for opportunities to use bonus weeks, which is a variation of renting.

But if I need to give up both sides of my unit for a wonderful resort/week, I will.

 

[Carolinian]

If they were running a pure exchange system, without having their fingers in the till with their rentals to the general public, and if they were not trying to cozy up to major developers to keep them with RCI for new members, the liklihood of a fair system would be much higher. Given extraneous factors like that, however, which are there for the viewing in their current published system, RCI Points, there is very likely going to be an RCI thumb on the scales.

Carolinian's argument is that supply and demand won't in fact rule - he is afraid that RCI will give a unit higher ratings, and it will be allowed to keep those ratings. He has no faith that they system will adjust for supply and demand.

Your point, that poor demand and excessive supply will drive down the value of a resort given a too-high rating, has been made several times, but Carolinian insists we are all wrong.

He also doesn't believe that you or anyone else will be happy to trade multiple weeks for a single great trade.

 

[Carolinian]

You would think that someone in marketing would be smart enough to avoid that Orwellian term of corporate-speak ''enhancement''. Everyone who keeps up with frequent flyer programs, for example, dreads the news that their program is going to have an ''enhancement''. Members start wondering what benefit(s) they are about to lose.

Indeed, I was just over on FlyerTalk, reading a thread on possible changes with the merger of Continental and United and found this posted today by another poster-

''whenever I see the word "enhancement" used in context with any airline discussion I do get squeamish.''


I suspect it would be interesting to do a search for the word ''enhancement'' on FlyerTalk.

Saw this on the Grandview owners website, I haven't received the details yet, perhaps they will come in the mail today. FYI Michael, MFs are unchanged at Grandview for 2011.

RCI Enhancement (Weeks Owners Only)
10/15/2010

By now you should have received the New RCI Enhancement information that offers you greater flexibility and more choices.

Please be reminded in order to take advantage and Maximize your Week(s) Trading Power with RCI your Maintenance fee must be paid in full on or before January 1, 2011.

Please visit our website at www.dailymanagementresorts.com to make payment and download the Owner Options Form and let us know how you plan to utilize your 2011 Week. Or contact your home resort for assistance.

Please visit this RCI link for more information

www.rci.com/weeksenhancements

 

[timeos2]

How is it assigned?

You would think that someone in marketing would be smart enough to avoid that Orwellian term of corporate-speak ''enhancement''. Everyone who keeps up with frequent flyer programs, for example, dreads the news that their program is going to have an ''enhancement''. Members start wondering what benefit(s) they are about to lose.

The question keeps getting asked "What are the trading power criteria - without that values are worthless".

Here is the answer per RCI Weeks.

This link is part of the overall RCI presentation regarding the new ability of members to see trade values. And it specifically says

"The trading power of your deposit isn’t changing! It has always been there and is used to determine the exchange options available to you, and it still will. The added flexibility is in that now you will SEE the trading power of your deposit, as well as the trading power of available exchange vacations. For a detailed refresher on how we’ve calculated your Deposit Trading Power for the last 35 years, click here."

So as I originally asked when this thread started - how does releasing the information hidden but applied for 35+ years hurt members? To me it does not. It is a long overdue change that benefits members.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So as I originally asked when this thread started - how does releasing the information hidden but applied for 35+ years hurt members? To me it does not. It is a long overdue change that benefits members.

I keep coming back to that same page as well, John.

To me it simply boils down as follows.

I have a week in hand, and they tell me what my week is worth. I can go to the RCI store, where all of the prices are marked on everything, I can look at what i can get for my week, and decide whether or not I want to do business.

Or I can go to a RCI store where before I'm even allowed into the store I have to give them my week and they give me a credit slip that has some invisible coding on it. Then as I wander around the aisles nothing is on display and no prices are marked. I have to ask what is available, and some clerk takes my credit slip, then comes back and says, based on what you gave us these are the things I can give you. If I don't like anything they offer, I say no thanks and I get my credit slip back. If none of the aisles have anything I like, I can leave. But when I leave I have to leave my credit slip behind, where it will be stored until I come back.

++++

After all of the hand waving and bubbling and frothing and prognosticating simmers down, I simply can't fathom how the first situation isn't vastly better than the second.

 

[Carolinian]

Of course this comes from RCI who also told us that trading power had not changed some months ago when a lot of Tuggers in fact noticed that their trading power had indeed been severely whacked. It also comes from RCI whose employees were regularly telling members that they were not renting weeks out of the exchange pool when they ultimately had to admit that they were. RCI has had a history of not being truthful with its members, so only the most loyal of the battalion of koolaid drinkers would take this at face value.

Right now, we know that much of the year for many of the resorts in Orlando, the trading power is the same as for a blue week most anywhere, as blue weeks easily trade in, due to the oversupply from Orlando being overbuilt. We will see if that is still true when the numbers come out. If it is not, then they have definitely moved the goalposts. (Of course there are some of the more demanded resorts like DVC that will always outpreform the rest of the Orlando market as well as prime weeks that will deserve high value). I could substitute Canary Islands, Branson, or India for Orlando, as it is the same principle of oversupply from overbuilding. But Orlando will be the main test of the integrity of the new numbers in the American market, so we will see right there whether RCI is being honest or not.

The question keeps getting asked "What are the trading power criteria - without that values are worthless".

Here is the answer per RCI Weeks.

This link is part of the overall RCI presentation regarding the new ability of members to see trade values. And it specifically says

"The trading power of your deposit isn’t changing! It has always been there and is used to determine the exchange options available to you, and it still will. The added flexibility is in that now you will SEE the trading power of your deposit, as well as the trading power of available exchange vacations. For a detailed refresher on how we’ve calculated your Deposit Trading Power for the last 35 years, click here."

So as I originally asked when this thread started - how does releasing the information hidden but applied for 35+ years hurt members? To me it does not. It is a long overdue change that benefits members.

 

[Carolinian]

To me it comes down to an entity that has a history of skewed values on anything they publish. The only exception is the award status rankings, the one place where they provide both the formula and the data to work the formula. To have honest values, we need the same standards. You may be willing to accept any ole' numbers, but some of us would really prefer honest numbers.

I keep coming back to that same page as well, John.

To me it simply boils down as follows.

I have a week in hand, and they tell me what my week is worth. I can go to the RCI store, where all of the prices are marked on everything, I can look at what i can get for my week, and decide whether or not I want to do business.

Or I can go to a RCI store where before I'm even allowed into the store I have to give them my week and they give me a credit slip that has some invisible coding on it. Then as I wander around the aisles nothing is on display and no prices are marked. I have to ask what is available, and some clerk takes my credit slip, then comes back and says, based on what you gave us these are the things I can give you. If I don't like anything they offer, I say no thanks and I get my credit slip back. If none of the aisles have anything I like, I can leave. But when I leave I have to leave my credit slip behind, where it will be stored until I come back.

++++

After all of the hand waving and bubbling and frothing and prognosticating simmers down, I simply can't fathom how the first situation isn't vastly better than the second.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

To me it comes down to an entity that has a history of skewed values on anything they publish. The only exception is the award status rankings, the one place where they provide both the formula and the data to work the formula. To have honest values, we need the same standards. You may be willing to accept any ole' numbers, but some of us would really prefer honest numbers.

If I don't like their numbers, I just don't do business with them. Just like Whole Foods; I don't like their prices so I don't shop there.

+++++

As you note RCI has always skewed the numbers. But when they put the prices on everything you can see where they are skewing things. And if they're skewing some resorts in favor of the developers, that means they are underpricing others.

And just like in any store, with the prices published savvy shoppers will be able to easily identify and pick up the bargains that are out there.

 

[timeos2]

Says who?

Right now, we know that much of the year for many of the resorts in Orlando, the trading power is the same as for a blue week most anywhere, as blue weeks easily trade in, due to the oversupply from Orlando being overbuilt. We will see if that is still true when the numbers come out. If it is not, then they have definitely moved the goalposts. (Of course there are some of the more demanded resorts like DVC that will always outpreform the rest of the Orlando market as well as prime weeks that will deserve high value). I could substitute Canary Islands, Branson, or India for Orlando, as it is the same principle of oversupply from overbuilding.

Last time I looked RCI gave Orlando a RED, not BLUE, color code year round. That is not given to many areas because most don't have the demand to support it. That is why they have other colors

No matter how many times it gets repeated the fact remains that Orlando and a few other locales often deemed "overbuilt" have RED codes and lots of resorts because people want to go there again and again vs a visit or two. More seasonal areas also have a core group of people that like a given area enough to go there often BUT they tend to want the top times (season) AND once they decide they like it enough will buy to use there (vs owning to trade). Orlando attracts the "un-committed" (those that own to trade either weeks or points) over & over (ask Cindy) and there are plenty like her. There are plenty of owners who may say "Hey, we have an extra week/points - where can we go in October to May and enjoy? Beach? Nope.Too cold. Ski resort? Sold out. Hey - we always enjoy Orlando and the kids like so lets go"

Very few will go to a cold location that is more or less shut down off season (most coastal or other summer destinations) but they will GLADLY go to Orlando, LV, Hawaii (if reasonable airfare can be found) and a few others. That's why Orlando is year round red (or pink some weeks if there was a pink) while the majority of areas have a limited RED time, plenty of BLUE and often even WHITE. The demand just isn't there even if the supply is near zero it tends to sit unclaimed. Not so in Orlando even if supply is incredible.

As for trade power - well it is what it is and has been for 35 years. In a couple weeks we'll all know what it is and I am anxious to see it. And I will peek at those BLUE coastal weeks as well. I'll bet they don't have too much - especially compared to Orlando. That those resorts want that hidden is no surprise but it doesn't change the value either way. It just gets exposed as it should have been all along. No "thumb on scale" required

 

[Carolinian]

The color codes are one of the things that RCI has long published and consequnetly have been bent for ages.

Orlando is not the only overbuilt area to be designated ''red'' all year. The Canary Islands is another example. Both are easy trades from about any blue week you may have because of the oversupply much of the year. Now that does not mean there are some prime weeks that are hard to get into but they are the exception rather than the rule. And there also also some resorts within those areas with higher demand that will be harder to get into than the average resort.

Those who have been on TUG a while remember the very helpful RCI employee who posted here for years as Bootleg, before he made a quick exit about the time the class action lawsuit started up. Bootleg constantly told us that there were four places that RCI almost always inventory and you could almost always trade into - Orlando, Branson, Massanutten, and Williamsburg. He also told us that the resort regularly with the biggest oversupply in the entire RCI system was an Orlando resort - Vacation Villages at Parkway. Bootleg has, or at least had (I don't know if he still works there) access to RCI's computers, so he has the basis to make such statements, but you, John, do not.

Then, of course, we have the Availibility tables published in the European version of the RCI Directory (but curiously not in the US version), which also show places like Orlando and the Canaries having lots of excess inventory.

Savvy timesharers who look at availibility online regularly already have a good idea of what is equivalent in trade power, because they know what will trade for what. They know any blue week anywhere will get quite a bit in Orlando. No not Christmas, New Years Easter, or a chunk of the summer, but most anything else. No, not DVC, but many other resorts. Now if these numbers do not match up after the change, then RCI has moved the goalposts, put its thumb on the scales, pandered to developers, or whatever term you want to use.

Last time I looked RCI gave Orlando a RED, not BLUE, color code year round. That is not given to many areas because most don't have the demand to support it. That is why they have other colors

No matter how many times it gets repeated the fact remains that Orlando and a few other locales often deemed "overbuilt" have RED codes and lots of resorts because people want to go there again and again vs a visit or two. More seasonal areas also have a core group of people that like a given area enough to go there often BUT they tend to want the top times (season) AND once they decide they like it enough will buy to use there (vs owning to trade). Orlando attracts the "un-committed" (those that own to trade either weeks or points) over & over (ask Cindy) and there are plenty like her. There are plenty of owners who may say "Hey, we have an extra week/points - where can we go in October to May and enjoy? Beach? Nope.Too cold. Ski resort? Sold out. Hey - we always enjoy Orlando and the kids like so lets go"

Very few will go to a cold location that is more or less shut down off season (most coastal or other summer destinations) but they will GLADLY go to Orlando, LV, Hawaii (if reasonable airfare can be found) and a few others. That's why Orlando is year round red (or pink some weeks if there was a pink) while the majority of areas have a limited RED time, plenty of BLUE and often even WHITE. The demand just isn't there even if the supply is near zero it tends to sit unclaimed. Not so in Orlando even if supply is incredible.

As for trade power - well it is what it is and has been for 35 years. In a couple weeks we'll all know what it is and I am anxious to see it. And I will peek at those BLUE coastal weeks as well. I'll bet they don't have too much - especially compared to Orlando. That those resorts want that hidden is no surprise but it doesn't change the value either way. It just gets exposed as it should have been all along. No "thumb on scale" required

 

[Mel]

The color codes are one of the things that RCI has long published and consequnetly have been bent for ages.

And when were these resorts given the year-round RED designation? Long before Cendant got involved! The color codes are a relic of early RCI - the RCI that you long to go back to!

You keep saying RCI doesn't publish anything honest except the data regarding award status - yet you insist on relying on RCI Europe's published chart. Again, are they honest or dishonest. That chart is about availability - sounds like Supply to me, not supply vs demand. RCI does in fact have chart on its website broken down by week, that I posted on one of the threads several weeks back. I wish I had bookmarked it, but I didn't.

RCI has said the trading power isn't going to change when the new system goes live. Perhaps anyone who thinks this isn't true should take a snapshot of their availability just before we go live, and just after, to compare.

The more I look at that "enhancement" page, the more it sounds like RCI is in fact giving us what was asked for in the class-action lawsuit, only not just as a one-shot deal. We wanted to know what our deposit was worth before we commit, sounds like we're getting that. People often ask here if others see anything in the bank that they can't see with their current week. Now that won't be necessary (unless they keep quality filters). Those do in fact sound like real enhancements.

And as a nod to you, Carolinian, we will be able to see just what the difference is between those red Orlando weeks, and blue weeks elsewhere. Perhaps what we will see is that Blue week owners who deposit early (as many have to do over the years) do in fact have enough trade power to get into Orlando on a regular basis, not because the weeks are worth as much a year out, but because there are so many Orlando owners that there are enough later deposits, with reduced value, for them to qualify.