Question about WKORV/WKORVN vs Nanea

[g3man]

Hello:

I have a somewhat urgent (because we just did this and we're still on site) question because we just purchased 2BR week from the developer at Nanea and I'm wondering if the things we liked about Nanea are also available from a resale WKORV/WKORVN:
- we liked the floating/flex day concept (don't have to check-in on weekends) and can mix and match the 148k Staroptions redemptions; is that flexibility available on WKORV/WKORVN resale units? I see listings for "floating" ... is that the same capability?
- For WKORV/WKORVN units, can the Staroptions obtained from a resale unit be converted to Starpoints every other year if we wanted to do that (I know there is always a $99 fee and many consider it not the best value); I do understand now, thanks to TUGBBS, that WKORV/WKORVN are "mandatory" meaning resales get the same original Staroptions but Nanea is "voluntary" and resales do not get the same original Staroptions.
- does this difference (lack of conversion of Staroptions to Starpoints) affect resale value for Nanea (since it is Voluntary)?
- For resale WKORV/WKORVN units, I see that sometimes Vistana will over-ride the purchase.. how likely is that? I see some low prices for WKORV/WKORVN units we'd be interested in (great as in much lower than what was offered from the developer of a WKORV unit), but want to understand in advance how likely a resale transaction would be swallowed up by Vistana instead.
- The salesperson made it seem like it's pretty straightforward to sell (like on VRBO, etc) some or all of the time for the year (so long as we reserve 12 mo in advance during a highly desirable week), is that true? I see listings on VRBO, but don't have a feel on how successful that tactic really is (the thought is at least to recover some or all of the MF)... can you point me to a "how to" on this?
- Is there any way to "see" the sale price for resale units? Just so I can understand what is the fair price for one... or is it a closed market and I just have to hope I have a good deal or feel good about a deal (based on listings?)

Lastly, is it better to rescind in person? I don't want to waste any more time here on my vacation...
- but even if we rescind, depending on the comments above, we still will look for resale.

Thank you in advance for all of your advice.

(edits to add questions and also delete questions I see answers in other threads or the FAQ)

 

[dioxide45]

I can really only answer your first question about flexible checkin day. That is only available at Nanea with their Home Options. If you buy a resale WKORV N/S, you can only reserve a full seven night stay from 12-8 months out with a checkin day of, I think, Fri, Sat or Sun. To be able to reserve checkin on any day of the week for more or less than seven nights, you have to wait until eight months out.

Also, we generally don't recommend reccinding in person. Send the letter by mail. If you go in to the office, they will try to convince you to change you mind, the food on their table and their next vacation is dependent upon you buying from them.

 

[Henry M.]

If you buy resale, you cannot convert StarOptions to StarPoints. You only get StarOptions at mandatory resorts.

Resale value is affected mostly by the lack of Staroptions for the buyer. You can't trade within the Vista network, only through Interval International. Usually you can't get comparably nice properties through II. The Starpoint conversion may have an effect too. Voluntary properties lose much more value than mandatory properties, but both lose 3/4 or more if you buy from the developer. If you buy resale, you should be able to recoup most of what you put into the purchase.

You can reserve and rent a week. It takes a little effort, but is not difficult. You can rent it yourself by advertising in places like Redweek.com or even craigslist, or you can pay someone to do the work for a commission. In Hawaii, you can get more than the maintenance fees back. In Flrodia you can't even get the maintenance fees.

You can work with a real estate agent to look at properties available and figure out a good price. If you hang around here long enough you can get an idea of what is possible.

Vista does have right or first refusal at WKORV and WKORVN. They exercise it from time to time. This means they can pay the agreed upon price for a sale and take it away from a buyer. The seller gets what they agreed to. A reputable seller, like TIG member Syed, can help you navigate this and help determine a good price.

 

[cindyc]

I can really only answer your first question about flexible checkin day. That is only available at Nanea with their Home Options. If you buy a resale WKORV N/S, you can only reserve a full seven night stay from 12-8 months out with a checkin day of, I think, Fri, Sat or Sun. To be able to reserve checkin on any day of the week for more or less than seven nights, you have to wait until eight months out.

Also, we generally don't recommend reccinding in person. Send the letter by mail. If you go in to the office, they will try to convince you to change you mind, the food on their table and their next vacation is dependent upon you buying from them.

You can check this website for some idea of what is passing ROFR and what is not.
It is voluntary reporting. So it is not conprehensive, but beats having no information.

http://www.rofr.net/

 

[vacationtime1]

Don't focus on -- or even worry about -- ROFR. Vistana exercises it intermittently and inconsistently. If they ROFR you, just try again with another unit.

The bottom line is that a resale unit at WKORV/N will cost only 20-33% as much as a Nanea unit purchased from the developer -- and the MF's are lower, too.

 

[g3man]

I can really only answer your first question about flexible checkin day. That is only available at Nanea with their Home Options. If you buy a resale WKORV N/S, you can only reserve a full seven night stay from 12-8 months out with a checkin day of, I think, Fri, Sat or Sun. To be able to reserve checkin on any day of the week for more or less than seven nights, you have to wait until eight months out.

Also, we generally don't recommend reccinding in person. Send the letter by mail. If you go in to the office, they will try to convince you to change you mind, the food on their table and their next vacation is dependent upon you buying from them.

Thank you. This was an important consideration for my wife, but even she now agrees the difference is small (it's not like we'll stay here for only 2 nights)... the only potential difference is if we wanted 2 weeks in a 1BR unit out of a purchased 2BR without moving rooms (I suppose we should then buy 2 on resale for that...)

And I see what you're saying about rescinding in person. I will try to figure out how to photocopy and get an envelope and drop off at post office in Maui since I don't get home until 6 days have passed...

Thank you!

 

[g3man]

If you buy resale, you cannot convert StarOptions to StarPoints. You only get StarOptions at mandatory resorts.

Resale value is affected mostly by the lack of Staroptions for the buyer. You can't trade within the Vista network, only through Interval International. Usually you can't get comparably nice properties through II. The Starpoint conversion may have an effect too. Voluntary properties lose much more value than mandatory properties, but both lose 3/4 or more if you buy from the developer. If you buy resale, you should be able to recoup most of what you put into the purchase.

You can reserve and rent a week. It takes a little effort, but is not difficult. You can rent it yourself by advertising in places like Redweek.com or even craigslist, or you can pay someone to do the work for a commission. In Hawaii, you can get more than the maintenance fees back. In Flrodia you can't even get the maintenance fees.

You can work with a real estate agent to look at properties available and figure out a good price. If you hang around here long enough you can get an idea of what is possible.

Vista does have right or first refusal at WKORV and WKORVN. They exercise it from time to time. This means they can pay the agreed upon price for a sale and take it away from a buyer. The seller gets what they agreed to. A reputable seller, like TIG member Syed, can help you navigate this and help determine a good price.

Thank you for the feedback and advice.

One more small question: do you know if resale owners at WKORV/WKORVN can access II through the SVN fee? Or is that another developer-only option?

 

[g3man]

You can check this website for some idea of what is passing ROFR and what is not.
It is voluntary reporting. So it is not conprehensive, but beats having no information.

http://www.rofr.net/

... so I guess nobody from Vistana has posted...

Don't focus on -- or even worry about -- ROFR. Vistana exercises it intermittently and inconsistently. If they ROFR you, just try again with another unit.

The bottom line is that a resale unit at WKORV/N will cost only 20-33% as much as a Nanea unit purchased from the developer -- and the MF's are lower, too.

OK. I see. And the last point is why I will have to rescind. That was my thought going into the discussion; I'm not sure what changed my mind and led us to sign. Ugh.

 

[vacationtime1]

Thank you for the feedback and advice.

One more small question: do you know if resale owners at WKORV/WKORVN can access II through the SVN fee? Or is that another developer-only option?

Yes, they can. But why?

Almost any trade out of WKORV/N is a trade down. An owner would do much better renting her unit and then renting where she wants to vacation.

 

[g3man]

Yes, they can. But why?

Almost any trade out of WKORV/N is a trade down. An owner would do much better renting her unit and then renting where she wants to vacation.

True. Good point. Thank you again for your helpful advice.

 

[Ken555]

One more small question: do you know if resale owners at WKORV/WKORVN can access II through the SVN fee? Or is that another developer-only option?

Yes, you may. While it's never good to exchange your Maui week, you would still have access to II for Getaway weeks (which are occasionally of great value).

 

[dioxide45]

You can check this website for some idea of what is passing ROFR and what is not.
It is voluntary reporting. So it is not conprehensive, but beats having no information.

http://www.rofr.net/

... so I guess nobody from Vistana has posted...

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time yet to add Vistana to the ROFR.net website.

 

[bizaro86]

There is quite a bit of Vistana ROFR information here:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...starwood-rofr-transactions-here.196786/page-6

 

[g3man]

There is quite a bit of Vistana ROFR information here:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...starwood-rofr-transactions-here.196786/page-6

Thank you. I'm also trying to read through and understand the stickied posts. Thank you all!

 

[oneohana]

Thank you. I'm also trying to read through and understand the stickied posts. Thank you all!

If you have time, go see Syed at Advantage Vacation. He is located in the canery mall. Call first as his days and hours are limited (808)268-3826. He has a few Westins available.

 

[taterhed]

Thank you. This was an important consideration for my wife, but even she now agrees the difference is small (it's not like we'll stay here for only 2 nights)... the only potential difference is if we wanted 2 weeks in a 1BR unit out of a purchased 2BR without moving rooms (I suppose we should then buy 2 on resale for that...)

Thank you!

If I read your question right.....

You can actually lock-off the unit and book week 1 in the small or large side of the unit and book the second week (7 days later) in the other side of the unit. This would require a move. Thus, two weeks (one a 1bdr and one a studio) for the price of one.

Or--you could book the first week in the large side of the unit....and then wait till 8 mos out to book the remainder in a staroptions reservation (any resort with availability). Note: Will be difficult during peak weeks (whales/summer)
Or--you could book two weeks at 8 mos if you have enough SO's to book. Again, not easy during peak weeks. In this case, they might allow you to retain same room.

 

[g3man]

Just wanted to document for reference for others:
* 6/15 - purchased at Nanea from VSE (10% deposit by credit card); rescission date is 6/22
* 6/16 - found TUG and it's excellent resources
* 6/18 - submitted rescind letters to HI & FL addresses via USPS certified mail ($7.90 for both letters) - I just sent a copy of the recision letter included in the closing documents + a copy of the contract cover page (with all of the detail) to each address (just in case)
* 6/19 - left some documents and collateral I received in the room (didn't want to deal with return post nor dealing with sales); I kept the copy of the purchase agreement; we were OK if they withheld the $25
* 6/19 - letter was received at HI address
* 6/25 - letter was received at FL address
* 6/27 - full deposit refunded onto the credit card

Thank you all for your helpful advice and building such a great community here with such in-depth FAQs. It was very helpful for us. We will still consider buying via resale, but that's for some future date. Thanks again.

 

[DeniseM]

 

[Inh Ling]

Funny, we "purchased" Nanea as well after sitting through the presentation on 8/9. Found TUG on 8/10 and turned in the rescission letter on 8/12 with the Sales Manager Rocky at Nanea. He was great! Not once did he try to get me to keep the purchase. I went in ready for a battle, but he literally dug through my paperwork to find the rescission letter, signed it, had me sign it, and gave me a copy in less than 5 minutes. Of course we chatted for a bit and he explained "who" timeshares were for and "why" people buy them. He emphasized that it was NOT an investment but a lifestyle vacation upgrade. Again, it was awesome to have someone just talk through the process with me like a friend rather than a sales person. 20 minutes later, he gave me his cell phone number and told me to give him a call if/when we are ready to buy...

Of course since then...TUG has taught me otherwise

 

[taterhed]

I'll tell you that our experiences with HGVC (rescind) and Marriott (declined to sign the contract next day) were both very, very positive and much as you quoted @Inh Ling

I know they are not all as positive......

Congrats to all.

 

[Henry M.]

Whatever the financial issues about buying a developer week, I have always found the sales force in Maui to be respectful and very easy to deal with. I would not have the slightest worry that they would try to pull a fast one when trying to rescind. They are all people too, and it helps to be respectful on the buyer’s side too. Rocky, in particular, is a very nice guy. I met him all the way back in 2002. He’s been there a long time.

 

[taterhed]

Uh.....keep in mind: There is a legal statute governing ROFR for every state.
I would NOT ever expect any company to voluntarily waive ROFR past the contractual/statutory terms.
YMMV, but not a bet I'd take.

 

[Henry M.]

I didn't mean to say to push the limits. However, they are not trying to "get you" if you follow the rules. They are a reputable company and want to stay that way.

 

[DeniseM]

It entirely depends on who you deal with - we had our worst "owner update" ever at WKORV.

 

[Inh Ling]

Whatever the financial issues about buying a developer week, I have always found the sales force in Maui to be respectful and very easy to deal with. I would not have the slightest worry that they would try to pull a fast one when trying to rescind. They are all people too, and it helps to be respectful on the buyer’s side too. Rocky, in particular, is a very nice guy. I met him all the way back in 2002. He’s been there a long time.

Yeah he said he started selling WKORV out of the Westin hotel in 2002. Solid guy for sure. I would definitely call him if I were to buy from them directly.


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