Pros/Cons of your trust holding title to your timeshare

[geist1223]

Time to move on.

 

[LeslieDet]

I am not sure why you are being so abrasive with terms like "geez" and "Gumby". I was simply referring to your reference to Interval International. Thus why that was the only part of your post I quoted. She made no reference or confusion with Interval International in any of her posts so I don't know why you even mentioned it in yours.

If you read all of her comments, she comes across as very confused about things. Thus, in answering her question to me, I was taking a very basic approach of raising and negating terms she provided, and then explaining what the best probable explanation is -- an ownership in an entity, ie personal property, and not real property. I can't read people's minds, how am I to know whether she was thinking of II or not? I just wanted to make sure she understood that it was not a reference to II.

And as for my responses to Gumby -- he has repeatedly ignored the legal aspects and repeats his same old incorrect info. My patience runs out with folks like that.

And BTW - an irrevocable trust is not a common trust vehicle to use unless the grantor is looking to convey assets to avoid clawbacks so that they can use public funds to pay for long term care. It is very restrictive. A irrevocable trust is a separate legal entity that must file its own tax returns. Distribution of funds is restricted. If the grantor needs to change the terms, then a court must be involved. Suggesting folks simply use that vehicle is irresponsible. Anyone who is considering preparing one must work with their estate planning counsel and their CPA. There can be many unintended consequences of irrevocable trusts, especially if all you are trying to do is screw the HOA of the deeded ts you own by not paying the MFs and by not addressing the disposition of that ownership when you pass.

 

[WinniWoman]

Geez, thanks for reminding me that no good deed goes unpunished. Of course I am aware that time is referred to as intervals. I was specifically addressing her question, given that it is my understanding she hasn't had that ownership for a long time. I was simply explaining to her that using that term means nothing to do with II. And, as I've said, I've never seen a ts ownership described in that format, and then I go on to give her a potential definition. Have you seen a deeded ts interest recorded by a document that says "interval deed"? LOL. Your comment is so ridiculous. Do you see her certificate being called a "timeshare interval"? Or, heck, do you read "certificate of beneficial interval ownership" to be written in code that says "timeshare interval"? BTW - her certificate isn't a deed. So, when you say, "a deeded week is also referred to as an interval", that has absolutely no bearing on her ownership. Thus, in her certificate, the term "interval" doesn't relate to a deed. Rather, it would relate to her right to occupy a specified interval of time, which is what I described to her. Try re-reading my answer, and her question.

I will add that I got this week free through timeshare nation in 2015. It was a little weird as it transferred from some guy ( if I recall in National City, Ca. With a Quit Claim Deed. But I also have paperwork by a couple in Maine who I believe were actually the owners before that - not sure- who signed an interval ownership warranty deed in 2013.

Innseason had a whole new procedure for transferring ownerships due to Viking Ships. I heard they changed how the ownerships were handled, hence issuing these certificates going forward.

I attached a partial snapshot.

 

[LeslieDet]

I will add that I got this week free through timeshare nation in 2015. It was a little weird as it transferred from some guy ( if I recall in National City, Ca. With a Quit Claim Deed. But I also have paperwork by a couple in Maine who I believe were actually the owners before that - not sure- who signed an interval ownership warranty deed in 2013.

Innseason had a whole new procedure for transferring ownerships due to Viking Ships. I heard they changed how the ownerships were handled, hence issuing these certificates going forward.

I attached a partial snapshot.

I'm not familiar with NH laws, but the partial snapshot you posted expressly states you have no legal or equitable ownership in any assets of the trust, at least the part that is visible in that snapshot contains that wording. IDK if there are any qualifiers. As I said initially, I suspect that you hold an ownership interest in the trust, which in turn owns the resort property. Your ownership may be deemed personal property, ie similar to a stock or mutual fund, as opposed to real property; however, if you actually held the ownership via a properly recorded (in the venue where the ts is located) warranty deed or special warranty deed, then that would presumably be deemed an interest in real property under NH law, just as the MVC Trust Points are deemed a real property interest under FL law. You'd need to understand the NH statutes under which that Trust was formed, and if ownership in that trust is deemed real or personal property.

Just for background, with a special warranty deed in the MVC Trust, the ownership described by the deed is the specific beneficial interests in the MVC Trust that represent points. The actual real estate is owned by the trust, and the record of ownership of the trust points is maintained by the fiduciary. When the MVC Trust was created, FL law deemed that form of ownership to be the equivalent of an ownership interest in real property, such that real property law rules apply when it comes to legally transferring ownership, whether by sale, gift or death.

I again suggest you reach out to your ts to obtain more information to understand whether your ownership is deeded or not. If it started out deeded (ie the interval ownership warranty deed from 2013, coupled with the quitclaim you received) but then changed somehow due to Viking Ships (which I have no knowledge or understanding how that changed the ownership), that is what you need to understand. How did it change, and did that change impact those who owned prior to that date? If so, was every owner's interest modified in the same manner?

Good luck figuring it out.

 

[WinniWoman]

I'm not familiar with NH laws, but the partial snapshot you posted expressly states you have no legal or equitable ownership in any assets of the trust, at least the part that is visible in that snapshot contains that wording. IDK if there are any qualifiers. As I said initially, I suspect that you hold an ownership interest in the trust, which in turn owns the resort property. Your ownership may be deemed personal property, ie similar to a stock or mutual fund, as opposed to real property; however, if you actually held the ownership via a properly recorded (in the venue where the ts is located) warranty deed or special warranty deed, then that would presumably be deemed an interest in real property under NH law, just as the MVC Trust Points are deemed a real property interest under FL law. You'd need to understand the NH statutes under which that Trust was formed, and if ownership in that trust is deemed real or personal property.

Just for background, with a special warranty deed in the MVC Trust, the ownership described by the deed is the specific beneficial interests in the MVC Trust that represent points. The actual real estate is owned by the trust, and the record of ownership of the trust points is maintained by the fiduciary. When the MVC Trust was created, FL law deemed that form of ownership to be the equivalent of an ownership interest in real property, such that real property law rules apply when it comes to legally transferring ownership, whether by sale, gift or death.

I again suggest you reach out to your ts to obtain more information to understand whether your ownership is deeded or not. If it started out deeded (ie the interval ownership warranty deed from 2013, coupled with the quitclaim you received) but then changed somehow due to Viking Ships (which I have no knowledge or understanding how that changed the ownership), that is what you need to understand. How did it change, and did that change impact those who owned prior to that date? If so, was every owner's interest modified in the same manner?

Good luck figuring it out.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I hope to divest of this timeshare in just a few years anyway. My husband is turning 70 next year. In 2 1/2 years so will I and I’m thinking by then it probably will be time.

Thankfully it’s a prime week and hopefully someone will take it off our hands.

 

[People_advocate]

Second attempt at this question as the boilded pizza didn't go very well (private joke, see my recent deleted post, wonder if I will get enough views on that now to win an award??? Ha Ha

Anyway, here is my question. Those of you that have a trust, do you put your TS ownership in it?

My trust was created after my current ownership and I never deeded it into the trust.
I'm purchasing another, but II states I need to create a separate account because ownership will be in a different name, seems like double fees until I force all my other ownerships into the trust.

Quick google searches state:
Put in the trust because it avoids probate for beneficiaries so they can continue the ownership after death (i get this). Additionally it states, but if you don't want to pass along the burden to your beneficiares then it is worth considering not putting in the trust. (this I don't get)

What I have now and will buy in the future will be worthless in terms of resale and I wouldn't want to dump them on my daughter upon our passing.

Anyones thoughts on the topic?

I specifically advised my mother to NOT put her timeshare in her trust. I just think it makes it easier to renounce or disclaim the timeshare without it being in a trust, though I believe the “disclaiming inherited property laws” in some states may allow doing so from a trust as well. Best to play it safe though and keep it out of the trust, unless of course it is the beneficiaries desire to keep the timeshare, in which case it wouldn’t matter, unless if it a trust that continues to future beneficiaries.

In short, keeping a timeshare out of a trust does not limit beneficiaries’ rights to use it, but putting a timeshare in a trust could potentially hinder the ease in which you can dispose of it.

 

[LeslieDet]

I specifically advised my mother to NOT put her timeshare in her trust. I just think it makes it easier to renounce or disclaim the timeshare without it being in a trust, though I believe the “disclaiming inherited property laws” in some states may allow doing so from a trust as well. Best to play it safe though and keep it out of the trust, unless of course it is the beneficiaries desire to keep the timeshare, in which case it wouldn’t matter, unless if it a trust that continues to future beneficiaries.

In short, keeping a timeshare out of a trust does not limit beneficiaries’ rights to use it, but putting a timeshare in a trust could potentially hinder the ease in which you can dispose of it.

You have it completely backwards. In short, keeping a deeded ts out of a trust results in difficulty in disposing of it should the beneficiaries not want it. It requires an ancillary probate, time and money; whereas, with it being in a revocable living trust, the successor trustee has the legal ability to dispose of it without court intervention.

 

[vacationtime1]

I specifically advised my mother to NOT put her timeshare in her trust. I just think it makes it easier to renounce or disclaim the timeshare without it being in a trust, though I believe the “disclaiming inherited property laws” in some states may allow doing so from a trust as well. Best to play it safe though and keep it out of the trust, unless of course it is the beneficiaries desire to keep the timeshare, in which case it wouldn’t matter, unless if it a trust that continues to future beneficiaries.

In short, keeping a timeshare out of a trust does not limit beneficiaries’ rights to use it, but putting a timeshare in a trust could potentially hinder the ease in which you can dispose of it.

But it does if your estate cannot transfer legal title to them without ancillary probate

 

[easyrider]

There can be many unintended consequences of irrevocable trusts, especially if all you are trying to do is screw the HOA of the deeded ts you own by not paying the MFs and by not addressing the disposition of that ownership when you pass.

You do crack me up.

Thinking that anyone's objective is to screw over a hoa or resort by creating an irrevocable trust is just a perk, not the objective.

When people with a trust hit the "age", changing the trust into an irrevocable trust is attractive because it protects against creditors, can provide for a disabled person but most of all protect a person from their own stupidity and negligence.

Your ideas of placing liabilities such as an unwanted timeshare in a trust creates more work and problems for every one accept the hoa and you know it. The trust will not be able to terminate until the unwanted timeshare is disposed of properly. There isn't anything improper with leaving an unwanted timeshare outside the trust and letting it go through foreclosure. If a person was worried about it they could also just stop paying on it well before they die and let it go through foreclosure.

Bill

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Please agree to disagree and move on.

 

[heitmullerj02]

All of mine have a deed back programs, at a cost, if the successor trustee can sign, the title can revert to developer sooner.