Pros and cons of converting from club Wyndham to Travel and Leisure?

[pointsguy]

Wyndham keeps trying to get us to convert over to Travel and Leisure. Curious pros and cons of converting to Travel and Leisure.

 

[dioxide45]

Wyndham keeps trying to get us to convert over to Travel and Leisure. Curious pros and cons of converting to Travel and Leisure.

There is no such thing as converting over to Travel + Leisure.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Wyndham keeps trying to get us to convert over to Travel and Leisure. Curious pros and cons of converting to Travel and Leisure.

That's pure BS from sales to get you to buy more Wyndham developer points - nothing more. T&L became the parent company not long after Wyndham Destinations purchased T&L back a few years ago now. T&L has exactly nothing to do with anything timeshare related - except for the fact that Wyndham Destinations became a wholly owned subsidiary of T&L as a public company traded on the stock market - in other words it's strictly a financial arrangement. T&L has nothing, nothing, to do with the timeshare entity. Stop going to sales updates - that's our best recommendation for folks who aren't savvy with the ploys used by sales to attempt to get unsuspecting owners to buy more timeshare points.

 

[Floridaman76]

"Convert to Travel and Leisure" = buy more points

The points you already own are the exact same points that you would get if you "converted" aka, bought more points

 

[bnoble]

So, the con is that it is very expensive.

The pro is that you would have more points. But that's only a pro if you need more points. And if you need more points, it is probably better to get them via resale for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Floridaman76]

If you need more points, buy resale

 

[rickandcindy23]

Wyndham sales' department is relentless. What new "benefit" will they think of next?

 

[geist1223]

I believe it was Wyndumb that bought T&L and guaranteed the Editorial Independence of the Magazine. Then adopted the name of T&L. Lip Stick on a Pig.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Wyndham keeps trying to get us to convert over to Travel and Leisure. Curious pros and cons of converting to Travel and Leisure.

That’s not a thing. They’re lying to you to get you to buy developer points.

 

[WManning]

Con is your spending upwards $300/100 at a minimum of 30k to have same ownership with more maintenance fees.
Pro is you declined their offer and save thousands.

 

[rsn2bhappy]

We were just had an "update" yesterday. It seems that converting to travel and leisure is twofold: first, you are buying more points, and second, if you own a deeded property, you are transfering the deed to them "in trust". But the most disturbing part of this was that they have a new "access" process based on points, and the lowest point level is above our points, meaning that when this kicks in, we will have little or no privilege to book vacations. In addition to that, one of the supervisors told us that they are "decommissioning" resorts, so essentially few of the resorts that our points get us into will still be in the system. We are very upset.

 

[jp10558]

We were just had an "update" yesterday. It seems that converting to travel and leisure is twofold: first, you are buying more points, and second, if you own a deeded property, you are transfering the deed to them "in trust". But the most disturbing part of this was that they have a new "access" process based on points, and the lowest point level is above our points, meaning that when this kicks in, we will have little or no privilege to book vacations. In addition to that, one of the supervisors told us that they are "decommissioning" resorts, so essentially few of the resorts that our points get us into will still be in the system. We are very upset.

There's a list here on TUG of resorts they're "probably" dropping. However, unless your points are generated from one of the listed resorts, that basically just means you can't book at those resorts. The rest of what they're telling you is just FUD to get you to spend money on more points. None of the existing locations points values are changing, as far as I know, they can't change once set. If you need more points, you can always get them cheaply or free on the resale market, but pay attention to the MFs required.

 

[paxsarah]

Also, there is no "access" process based on points. You can book at your home resort 13 months out, all other Club Wyndham resorts 10 months out, and Margaritaville locations 5 months out (or farther if you're VIP). The number of points only impacts how many points you have to book, but not the availability of what you see in each of those windows.

 

[Arimaas]

I just yesterday attended an hour and fifteen minutes sales presentation at Skyline Tower, Atlantic City, because they paid me $150 for my time, which more than covered gas, tolls, parking, and then some, on the way down from NY. The sales lady was pleasant enough, but the manager was the one with the hard sale, but she knew I was a resale owner, and used it as part of the pitch. She said, obviously you know about resale, and I wouldn't hold that against you. I said well gee thanks. Anyway, her pitch was I need to have a "hybrid" account because Wyndham is going to be changing your availability and you'll need both CWA and CWS points. I said I have them both in the account. Look again. She said, well you'll need more CWS, otherwise you won't be able to use your plan due to the changes in the coming year. I said, well, why don't I sit back and see how those changes effect me, if at all, before I plunk down money now on a guess. She said, well if you're willing to roll that dice, than fine. I said, what's to stop Wyndham from making more changes after you make these changes, making me spend more money? I think I made their head hurt. Either way, after an hour, I got up, said I'm going to the bathroom. When I get back, it's time to leave.

That was it. Sorry for the play by play in half sentences. I get such kick out of reposting these stores. I really do love the Wyndham product. I despise Wyndham Corporate (yes I hold them wholly responsible for these piss poor sales tactics and poor treating of customers) and Wyndham Sales. The only thing redeaming about the company is, the product itself and the staff at the resorts that work so hard to give you a great vacation.

 

[Floridaman76]

Most of what you were told is lies, take anything they say with a grain of salt.

They are being especially predatory right now in locations that are closing because those saps have nothing to lose, so their "lie game" is going to entirely new levels.

I feel sorry for resort staff who are losing their jobs as part of this, with the explicit exception of the sales team staff.

 

[LegacyOwner]

We were just had an "update" yesterday. It seems that converting to travel and leisure is twofold: first, you are buying more points, and second, if you own a deeded property, you are transfering the deed to them "in trust". But the most disturbing part of this was that they have a new "access" process based on points, and the lowest point level is above our points, meaning that when this kicks in, we will have little or no privilege to book vacations. In addition to that, one of the supervisors told us that they are "decommissioning" resorts, so essentially few of the resorts that our points get us into will still be in the system. We are very upset.

OMG
Wyndham has the most despicable sales force in the entire business and its obviously condoned from the very top.
If they blast you with bullshit, simply call the reservation line and ask if what the salesman say about reservations or priority is true!
Such crap!

 

[philemer]

I believe it was Wyndumb that bought T&L and guaranteed the Editorial Independence of the Magazine. Then adopted the name of T&L. Lip Stick on a Pig.

Yup. https://www.travelandleisureco.com/...stinations-acquires-travel-leisure-brand-from

 

[kaljor]

Essentially, everything they say is meant to confuse you. Most good people have a tough time believing that there are people who will lie to your face in order to make a dollar, but those kind of people exist.

Insist that everything you are tempted to buy (or sign) is sent to your lawyer first. And if you don't have a lawyer, prearrange with a friend at home to be your "lawyer".
That would be a person who you have instructed and empowered to say no on your behalf to everything you send them!

If you think later that you might want what they are offering, hire a real lawyer to look at the actual paperwork. Believe me, if the offer was legitimate, it will still be available later.

Just to protect myself, this free legal advice is offered by a no cost non lawyer!!

 

[FL Guy]

I've gone to dozens of "owner updates" and the prevailing message (lie) from the last several I have attended has been: Each type of ownership has a segregated block of units within a resort and you will only see availability for a unit in that resort if you have that specific type of ownership. In other words, if you only have CW Select, you ONLY see, and can ONLY reserve, the units at the resort which are CW Select owned units, you will not see any CWA, PR, or Margaritaville units. Similarly, if you only own CWA, you will ONLY see, and be able to reserve, CWA-owned units. I own both CWS and CWA, so of course they tell me I need to buy PR in order to be able to see and book PR, which is a lie because I booked a PR unit at Moab this spring using my CWS and/or CWA points. Another thing they try to tell me is: since I have 4 small point contracts (three 84,000 each and one 64,000) that I only see inventory for stays that the total points cost is 84,000 points or below, which I know is another lie because that Moab PR unit I booked this spring cost a total of 221,000 points and there is no way I had enough single contract points to cover 221,000 points. Oh, and another thing they've told me at the start of the last several update meetings is: "I'm not here to sell you anything, because I'm not a salesperson. I'm only here to help you understand what you own and to get the most out of what you already own." But it always ends up with them recommending that the only way for them to really help me get the most out of what I already own is to buy more points. And somehow, miraculously, despite them "not being a salesperson", they can gladly help me buy the points they say I need for them to "help me get the most out of what I own". Most recently they told me I need to combine my 4 small point contracts into one single contract, (of course it requires purchase of additional points to do that). I already know that CWA maintenance fees are higher than the CWS contracts I own, so I don't want a CWA single contract. Besides, combining my contracts into a single contract would negate their lie about the segregated inventory availability, based on ownership type.

 

[Arimaas]

I've gone to dozens of "owner updates" and the prevailing message (lie) from the last several I have attended has been: Each type of ownership has a segregated block of units within a resort and you will only see availability for a unit in that resort if you have that specific type of ownership. In other words, if you only have CW Select, you ONLY see, and can ONLY reserve, the units at the resort which are CW Select owned units, you will not see any CWA, PR, or Margaritaville units. Similarly, if you only own CWA, you will ONLY see, and be able to reserve, CWA-owned units. I own both CWS and CWA, so of course they tell me I need to buy PR in order to be able to see and book PR, which is a lie because I booked a PR unit at Moab this spring using my CWS and/or CWA points. Another thing they try to tell me is: since I have 4 small point contracts (three 84,000 each and one 64,000) that I only see inventory for stays that the total points cost is 84,000 points or below, which I know is another lie because that Moab PR unit I booked this spring cost a total of 221,000 points and there is no way I had enough single contract points to cover 221,000 points. Oh, and another thing they've told me at the start of the last several update meetings is: "I'm not here to sell you anything, because I'm not a salesperson. I'm only here to help you understand what you own and to get the most out of what you already own." But it always ends up with them recommending that the only way for them to really help me get the most out of what I already own is to buy more points. And somehow, miraculously, despite them "not being a salesperson", they can gladly help me buy the points they say I need for them to "help me get the most out of what I own". Most recently they told me I need to combine my 4 small point contracts into one single contract, (of course it requires purchase of additional points to do that). I already know that CWA maintenance fees are higher than the CWS contracts I own, so I don't want a CWA single contract. Besides, combining my contracts into a single contract would negate their lie about the segregated inventory availability, based on ownership type.

You know, over on the closing of resort thread, in one of the 80 pages, someone, somewhere said something about Wyndham corporate not responsible for sales lies or something like that (I think maybe it was more along the lines of that they don't condone it, or something to that effect, I don't remember the specifics). But I just came from Skyline Tower in Atlantic City and was fed the exact same lie you were. So, I find it very hard to believe that some overhead corporate office doesn't go around telling all the sales across the system to say the same lies. Corporate is totally complacent in this nonsense. It's so disgusting how they take advantage. And I wonder what the education level and socioeconomic status is of the average Wyndham customer, because there is no doubt in my mind they target the lower end of both those things to take advantage of people that don't have the educational wherewithal to research and understand what they are signing, and for sure don't have the socioeconomic means to ever fight Wyndam and instead keeps paying them.

 

[Rolltydr]

It's so disgusting how they take advantage. And I wonder what the education level and socioeconomic status is of the average Wyndham customer, because there is no doubt in my mind they target the lower end of both those things to take advantage of people that don't have the educational wherewithal to research and understand what they are signing, and for sure don't have the socioeconomic means to ever fight Wyndam and instead keeps paying them.

I don’t understand why you question the education level and socioeconomic status of those who attend, yet you continue to attend even though you know what you’re going to hear. I can only assume you consider the gift worth your time. If so, wouldn’t the gift be even more valuable to someone lower on the education and socioeconomic ladder than you? Imho, I don’t believe one’s education or status have anything to do with it. Some people abhor the sales tactics and consider the price they would have to pay for attending, their leisure time and mental health, more valuable than whatever “free gift” they may get. Others consider the gift worth the couple of hours of lies and high pressure sales tactics.

 

[Jan M.]

You know, over on the closing of resort thread, in one of the 80 pages, someone, somewhere said something about Wyndham corporate not responsible for sales lies or something like that (I think maybe it was more along the lines of that they don't condone it, or something to that effect, I don't remember the specifics).

No long time or informed TUG member would ever say that Wyndham corporate doesn't condone the sales tactics. They are well aware of what goes on. That the unethical sales practices are openly taught and encouraged.

After the multi-million dollar settlement a former saleswoman was awarded by the court, we hoped to see Wyndham corporate put a stop to two specific things that happen frequently and weren't dismissed in the lawsuit. One was salespeople opening credit cards in owners names without the owners knowledge. The other was about taking advantage of the elderly; elder abuse. Afaik both are legally actionable. It's common knowledge that both are still happening.

I know it's been discussed in the threads but I don't remember if Wyndham ever paid the settlement or is still trying to appeal it.

 

[Arimaas]

I don’t understand why you question the education level and socioeconomic status of those who attend, yet you continue to attend even though you know what you’re going to hear. I can only assume you consider the gift worth your time. If so, wouldn’t the gift be even more valuable to someone lower on the education and socioeconomic ladder than you? Imho, I don’t believe one’s education or status have anything to do with it. Some people abhor the sales tactics and consider the price they would have to pay for attending, their leisure time and mental health, more valuable than whatever “free gift” they may get. Others consider the gift worth the couple of hours of lies and high pressure sales tactics.

Like I’ve said in either this thread or one of the others, when the gift is valuable enough for my time; I attend. I just got $150 for an hour of my time at Skyline Tower. That is more than my hourly salary, especially since it is tax free. It covered gas, tolls, parking and then some for my trip down. That’s why I went. Business decision.

As for education and socioeconomic status, it is an important distinction because it is predatory. Similar to the pay day loan business. It is done purposely to take advantage and confuse people who don’t have the education or means to know that what they are signing up for. Don’t understand that a loan at 25% interest, for a worthless timeshare, is not a good investment. If you think for a second Wyndham doesn’t purposefully target that segment, I have some timeshares to sell you.

And no, the free gift is not worth more to them because they end up buying. They don’t go for the reasons I do. They get tricked into spending more money on a product that could be had for nothing.

Edited to add the last paragraph.

 

[Arimaas]

No long time or informed TUG member would ever say that Wyndham corporate doesn't condone the sales tactics. They are well aware of what goes on. That the unethical sales practices are openly taught and encouraged.

After the multi-million dollar settlement a former saleswoman was awarded by the court, we hoped to see Wyndham corporate put a stop to two specific things that happen frequently and weren't dismissed in the lawsuit. One was salespeople opening credit cards in owners names without the owners knowledge. The other was about taking advantage of the elderly; elder abuse. Afaik both are legally actionable. It's common knowledge that both still happening.

I know it's been discussed in the threads but I don't remember if Wyndham ever paid the settlement or is still trying to appeal it.

See here. This is what I was referring to. This brief discussion about Wyndham corporate asking to report unethical sales practices and that they are "monitoring" to make sure sales people aren't taking advantage of the situation with closing facilities. Please. What a load of you know what.

Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

I do expect truth when someone is selling me something. I called the Marriott salesperson on her lies last August at Westin Princeville. She started telling me lies, and I told her it was not true. It's too bad some people fall for whatever lies the salespeople say.

tugbbs.com

 

[Rolltydr]

Like I’ve said in either this thread or one of the others, when the gift is valuable enough for my time; I attend. I just got $150 for an hour of my time at Skyline Tower. That is more than my hourly salary, especially since it is tax free. It covered gas, tolls, parking and then some for my trip down. That’s why I went. Business decision.

As for education and socioeconomic status, it is an important distinction because it is predatory. Similar to the pay day loan business. It is done purposely to take advantage and confuse people who don’t have the education or means to know that what they are signing up for. Don’t understand that a loan at 25% interest, for a worthless timeshare, is not a good investment. If you think for a second Wyndham doesn’t purposefully target that segment, I have some timeshares to sell you.

And no, the free gift is not worth more to them because they end up buying. They don’t go for the reasons I do. They get tricked into spending more money on a product that could be had for nothing.

Edited to add the last paragraph.

I’m not trying to be confrontational in my posts on this topic. I’m just trying to have a conversation and understand your thought process. I am on the Do Not Gift list because I refuse to participate in Wyndham’s game. And, if I weren’t on the list, I would just refuse to go. My mindset is that if I’m there and not challenging the sales staff on their lies, I’m complicit in Wyndham’s game. Of course, if I do speak up, they’re going to ask me to leave and if I do it a few times, they’d probably put me on the list anyway.

I’m married, so $150 gift card for both of us to attend for two hours would equal $37.50/hr. I use two hours because even if you only stay an hour, you still had to get ready and walk or ride to and from the meeting room. If you end up actually staying 1.5 or 2 hours, the hourly rate for your time is even less. For those with lower incomes, I completely understand that $150 can be a lot of money, but only if they can say no to the sales pitch. For those higher on the income ladder, I fail to see the justification. Just my two cents.