Problems with Worldmark election

[PA-]

My whole point, even my sample vacation, is that WM is a great timeshare as it stands now. The 20% of the club you sight is a WAG at best and is just like some RCI "crimes" are just bogyman issues.

No, Perry, it's not a wag. It's based on the amount of credit dilution that has occured since Cendant took over, and it's a VERY conservative estimate that doesn't take into account the size of the units or locations of the resorts. It only takes into account what percentage ownership you have with your existing credits.

That $180 M annual operating budget should go NOT to a management company but to hire a CEO, management team, and employees that have a sworn allegiance to WorldMark the Club. We already pay for a complete set of employees now PLUS a fat profit – they wear the Wyndham logo and their pay checks say Wyndham. Guess who they are loyal to.

If you don’t grasp that concept you seem to be in great company.

Once again, repeat it enough and you'll fool yourself into thinking you're a genious. But if someone questions you on your logic....? Change the subject, repeat it again, call them a bully and storm off to another thread, anything except address the questions. Even though you've taken this thread so far afield few are still going to read this far, I've asked you to explain why you feel that's such an important issue, and whether you're aware of other timeshares that are self-managed, among other questions. Don't bother anwering them, why let facts get in the way of a good bluster?
Me, I’ll continue to build my timeshare skills and take advantage of some WM owners attention which seems to be focused on windmills right now.

Let's see 1 year from now just how things have changed - my guess is that they will just deteriorate even further and WM resale credits will fall even faster. I guess we will then hear how we need to fight even harder. Just wait until those lawsuits make headlines....

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that Wyndham is going to continue merging Worldmark into Fairfield until eventually we have the same problems; high fees, poor customer service and extremely low resale value.

I'll make out better than ok either way, just like you. I'll enjoy it until I don't, then I'll sell. If I'm able to extend that period of time by my actions, and my family supports me doing so, so be it.

 

[PerryM]

Deja Vu is happening agin...

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that Wyndham is going to continue merging Worldmark into Fairfield until eventually we have the same problems; high fees, poor customer service and extremely low resale value.

I'll make out better than ok either way, just like you. I'll enjoy it until I don't, then I'll sell. If I'm able to extend that period of time by my actions, and my family supports me doing so, so be it.

Well yea - the ONLY thing that will stop this deja vu is WM employees. No WM employees and we will head down the same exact path as old Fairfield; I can guarantee it.

This is my point and has been for about 1 year now. I don't want to fight Wyndham I want a CEO who makes millions in bonus and a SOB legal team to take on Wyndham. I want to hire the nastiest set of lawyers and sick them on Wyndham - I want the amount of progress we get to becoming a full fledged timeshare club to be shown in year end bonuses. Heck I'd like to see the CEO driving a Bentley as a company car.

But, I realize that I am the sole person that seems to think this way - you guys can relive deja vu over and over again - maybe someday folks will listen to me. Who knows....by then my words will seem Deja Vu. "Didn't old Perry say this years ago?"

P.S.
Since no one seems to agree with me at this point I'm for the status quo since ANY change will be worse that what we have now - that's my opinion.

 

[PA-]

Repetition, not answers nor logic. Om. Om. Om....

 

[PA-]

Back to the original topic.

Of the people who have emailed me their owner numbers to check my list, at least 1/3 had their votes counted incorrectly. Here's the latest from the official inspector of elections:

We are investigating this matter and performing root cause analysis to determine if there is indeed a discrepancy as stated below and why it may have occured. In addition, we are looking across the electronic voting base to determine that all assignments were captured correctly. We will not report final numbers until we are confident that all votes and assignments were properly captured.

Now before you blame me for increased costs, Mellon isn't going to be paid more by WOrldmark because of their errors.

The point is, there are a large percentage of flawed votes, I urge you to verify with the Worldmark board that your votes were correctly counted. And if not, contact me.

 

[larry_WM]

Back to the original topic.

Of the people who have emailed me their owner numbers to check my list, at least 1/3 had their votes counted incorrectly.

I doubt about it. Someone shouldn't know how to count !

 

[Tia]

I doubt about it. Someone shouldn't know how to count !

What did you just say Larry? Not sure I understand it .

 

[BocaBum99]

As for maximizing usage of Worldmark; it's possible to discuss the issues AND maximize usage. You don't own the market on creative ways to use worldmark. Many of the ignorant yokels (as you've called them) that are "crying in their beer" know much more than you do about Worldmark and how to maximize usage. Many of their tips/tricks they share with the public at large on wmowners.com, some they don't.

Perry, you'd be embarrassed if you knew just how little some people spend to get the same quality vacations as you've gotten with your enormous expenditures, so stop lecturing us on your brilliance, please. Let's just stick to the topic. Your christmas plans have nothing to do with the subject at hand. If you want to compare the expenditure on our portfolios vs. the quality of vacations, start a new thread. I'm not convinced your vacations vs. expenditure would be in the top 50% of TUGgers, let alone people on wmowners.com.

PA,

This is a very interesting side point that I believe others should know that isn't very often posted. Perry talks a big game. But, anyone who seriously drills down on much of what he recommends will find a lot of hot air. There is some good advice there for newbies which is probably why he keeps pointing out how many hundreds of people he has helped (and probably at least partially misled). But, most true timesharing experts find his strategies to be rather meek and underwhelming.

Perry just spent a long message bragging about getting into a 2br unit at the Maui Marriott for week 7 of next year. That actually may be an exageration. I believe he said in another post that he got a studio and a 1br on different check in days. It would be a waste of good negotiation skills to have to pull off a combine of that deal. He had to buy a fractional in order to get trade credits to book a unit and then deposit it for exchange. It would have been cheaper to simply rent credits. But, he had to justify the fractional he bought, didn't he? Why's that? To justify some brilliant move? He had to risk getting nothing on a brand new exchange company and lucked into a trade that required him to bash Redweek until they finally bribed him to shut up. What a waste of energy to get a week in a studio and 1 bedroom unit at the Maui Marriott.

All he had to do is buy one of those Marriott Summit watch bronze week, split and deposit it into II and then check for availability during Flexchange. Here is the view unit from the REAL 2 bedroom unit I got using that strategy for week 6 of this year. I highly doubt that Perry will get a unit with this quality view.

My cost for that week was about $475 for the maintenance fee of the studio half of my lock off unit. Half a split fee of $75. And, an II exchange fee of $135. Total cost: about $650. The capital was $1500 and I didn't have to go through all the trouble he did. So, please forgive us if we find his approaches to timesharing rather uninspiring.

 

[PA-]

Wow, Boca, Game ON, Dude! What got you going. You know you can't throw down the glove on Perry, he won't quit til he gets the last word. I only hope that a new thread is started to hold this "debate". Otherwise, this thread just got off on a new track.

PA,

This is a very interesting side point that I believe others should know that isn't very often posted. Perry talks a big game. But, anyone who seriously drills down on much of what he recommends will find a lot of hot air. There is some good advice there for newbies which is probably why he keeps pointing out how many hundreds of people he has helped (and probably at least partially misled). But, most true timesharing experts find his strategies to be rather meek and underwhelming.

Perry just spent a long message bragging about getting into a 2br unit at the Maui Marriott for week 7 of next year. That actually may be an exageration. I believe he said in another post that he got a studio and a 1br on different check in days. It would be a waste of good negotiation skills to have to pull off a combine of that deal. He had to buy a fractional in order to get trade credits to book a unit and then deposit it for exchange. It would have been cheaper to simply rent credits. But, he had to justify the fractional he bought, didn't he? Why's that? To justify some brilliant move? He had to risk getting nothing on a brand new exchange company and lucked into a trade that required him to bash Redweek until they finally bribed him to shut up. What a waste of energy to get a week in a studio and 1 bedroom unit at the Maui Marriott.

All he had to do is buy one of those Marriott Summit watch bronze week, split and deposit it into II and then check for availability during Flexchange. Here is the view unit from the REAL 2 bedroom unit I got using that strategy for week 6 of this year. I highly doubt that Perry will get a unit with this quality view.

My cost for that week was about $475 for the maintenance fee of the studio half of my lock off unit. Half a split fee of $75. And, an II exchange fee of $135. Total cost: about $650. The capital was $1500 and I didn't have to go through all the trouble he did. So, please forgive us if we find his approaches to timesharing rather uninspiring.

 

[PerryM]

Simon says...

Hey, listen if it feels good to besmirch fellow Tuggers then go right ahead. Feel better?

BB is correct that you can get 59-day II exchanges with 4,000 WM credits that cost 6¢ to rent and you can get a 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club for $240 + $135 or $375. I believe BB paid $275 too much and NO upfront cash of $1,500 is needed – way too much money BB.

PA, you use your people skills with the WM BOD – I will chart your progress and measure your accomplishments if you should get on the BOD.

I don’t know about you but I feel better… Who should be belittle next…

See how silly this is guys.

 

[LLW]

BB is correct that you can get 59-day II exchanges with 4,000 WM credits that cost 6¢ to rent and you can get a 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club for $240 + $135 or $375. I believe BB paid $275 too much and NO upfront cash of $1,500 is needed – way too much money BB.

....but with the Summit Watch bronze week he gets the 3-day Marriott preference during Flex. It's actually something that I have been taught and keeping in mind.

 

[larry_WM]

Hey, listen if it feels good to besmirch fellow Tuggers then go right ahead. Feel better?

BB is correct that you can get 59-day II exchanges with 4,000 WM credits that cost 6¢ to rent and you can get a 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club for $240 + $135 or $375. I believe BB paid $275 too much and NO upfront cash of $1,500 is needed – way too much money BB.

PA, you use your people skills with the WM BOD – I will chart your progress and measure your accomplishments if you should get on the BOD.

I don’t know about you but I feel better… Who should be belittle next…

See how silly this is guys.

Perry, please tell me what kind of people skills the candidate have so next time I would vote for him.

 

[PerryM]

....but with the Summit Watch bronze week he gets the 3-day Marriott preference during Flex. It's actually something that I have been taught and keeping in mind.

I have a Gold Summit Watch to snatch up Marriott exchanges within the 3 - 24 day Marriott only window in II.

You can get to Marriott's Maui Ocean Club and Marriott's Summit Watch during Christmas week without a Marriott unit - I've done it with WM credits. There are many tricks one can use within the II system to improve your chances of getting a holiday exchange.


The one thing to remember is that the WM BOD has given WM owners a great gift - to put unlimited II exchanges in the II system, up to 3 years in advance, and NOT put up ONE WM credit until an exchange happens and then you can simply rent the WM credits for 6 cents each and never have to actually own them.

 

[PerryM]

Perry, please tell me what kind of people skills the candidate have so next time I would vote for him.

Larry, I gave examples of poor debating skills - name calling and insulting a fellow Tugger is the lowest form of debating - in fact I think it shows a character flaw.

There is NO reason to insult fellow timeshare owners by anyone. We need to improve our debating skills by lifting the conversations above street level. I will admit that I sometimes go astray my self...Iim human too.

 

[larry_WM]

Larry, I gave examples of poor debating skills - name calling and insulting a fellow Tugger is the lowest form of debating - in fact I think it shows a character flaw.

There is NO reason to insult fellow timeshare owners by anyone. We need to improve our debating skills by lifting the conversations above street level. I will admit that I sometimes go astray my self...Iim human too.

I agree with you. We are all human, but that's kind of character is not acceptable for a potential leadership role.

 

[PerryM]

I agree with you. We are all human, but that's kind of character is not acceptable for a potential leadership role.

I believe that PA is doing what he believes best for the WM owners – I think he’s patching a gaping hole in the WM ship with a band aid but he did take lots of his time and money to do so. I applaud all the WM candidates for doing so too.

If PA, or any outsider, gets on the WM BOD they will feel the full weight of a Billion $ company that plays hard ball 24/7. I don’t believe any meaningful change will occur and believe the relationship between WM owners and Wyndham will plummet along with our resale prices of WM credits. I will hold PA or any other WM BOD member responsible for declining WM resale credits once the new BOD is seated.

Performance of elected officials that is measurable seems to be something that we, those affected by these elected officials, never seem to bring up. Fortunately I am not bashful.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Worldmark Larry, the funny thing about this is that Perry, BocaBum and PA don't take one another very seriously. They love the banter and would all be happy to sit down and break bread together, because they would consider one another as friends. Perry is probably getting such a kick out of the debate. They all own Worldmark and all love it, but Perry thinks PA cannot make a difference on the board, while PA disagrees because he wants to give it a try.

You are just an outsider looking in for a peek at what has amused me for 2 1/2 years. We need Hatrack back to give some balance to this conversation. He would be a good "mediator." Believe me when I tell you this, these guys love to debate. I didn't really see any name calling here.

 

[larry_WM]

.

You are just an outsider looking in for a peek at what has amused me for 2 1/2 years. We need Hatrack back to give some balance to this conversation. He would be a good "mediator." Believe me when I tell you this, these guys love to debate. I didn't really see any name calling here.

Yes, I have a lot of respect to Hatrack. Suddenly he was disappeared. I would vote for him if he is running for BOD

 

[FLYNZ4]

Yes, I have a lot of respect to Hatrack. Suddenly he was disappeared. I would vote for him if he is running for BOD

Did you vote for him? He was running this year. Also, if you read his candidate statements, he clearly asked people to not vote for him... but to vote for Philip instead.

/Jim

 

[rickandcindy23]

I haven't talked to Hatrack for a year. He is a busy guy.

 

[larry_WM]

Did you vote for him? He was running this year. Also, if you read his candidate statements, he clearly asked people to not vote for him... but to vote for Philip instead.

/Jim

Who is he? I didn't know that.

 

[BocaBum99]

Hey, listen if it feels good to besmirch fellow Tuggers then go right ahead. Feel better?

BB is correct that you can get 59-day II exchanges with 4,000 WM credits that cost 6¢ to rent and you can get a 2BR Marriott Maui Ocean Club for $240 + $135 or $375. I believe BB paid $275 too much and NO upfront cash of $1,500 is needed – way too much money BB.

PA, you use your people skills with the WM BOD – I will chart your progress and measure your accomplishments if you should get on the BOD.

I don’t know about you but I feel better… Who should be belittle next…

See how silly this is guys.

Perry,

See this is an example of your close, but no cigar logic skills. I do respect your intellect and I love your writing style. We are on the same side of most issues and I've learned a lot from you. All I wanted to do was point out that your proclamations are often times not correct nor thoroughly considered. This is just but one example of being 95% correct is not always good enough.

You actually know this, but you must have forgotten. WorldMark could not grab this 2br Marriott unit because of the 3-day Marriott preference period. So, I didn't over pay. In fact, I may have gotten it at the lowest possible total cost.

As for using a summit watch Gold week. You could have done that, but you would have paid more capital for that exchange.

How does this relate to the subject of this thread? I believe you are using the same glossing over the details approach when making assertions about PAs objectives and activities wrt to the WorldMark Board and the possible impact he will have and is having. Same flawed and poorly considered logic.

As for what you perceive as attacks. Pot, Kettle and Black are the 3 words that come to mind.

 

[BocaBum99]

I believe that PA is doing what he believes best for the WM owners – I think he’s patching a gaping hole in the WM ship with a band aid but he did take lots of his time and money to do so. I applaud all the WM candidates for doing so too.

If PA, or any outsider, gets on the WM BOD they will feel the full weight of a Billion $ company that plays hard ball 24/7. I don’t believe any meaningful change will occur and believe the relationship between WM owners and Wyndham will plummet along with our resale prices of WM credits. I will hold PA or any other WM BOD member responsible for declining WM resale credits once the new BOD is seated.

Performance of elected officials that is measurable seems to be something that we, those affected by these elected officials, never seem to bring up. Fortunately I am not bashful.

Now this is a reasonable position. I agree that there is no guarantee that PAs activities will result in something positive for WorldMark owners. I do give him credit for trying.

It could result in Wyndham letting WorldMark languish like Equivest. Some would argue that that would be better for owners. Others would argue that it wouldn't.

 

[BocaBum99]

Wow, Boca, Game ON, Dude! What got you going. You know you can't throw down the glove on Perry, he won't quit til he gets the last word. I only hope that a new thread is started to hold this "debate". Otherwise, this thread just got off on a new track.

Sorry for derailing your thread. I'll refrain from doing it as much as I can going forward.

Sometimes someone has to point out when the emperor has no clothes.

I don't mind when that happens except when that person can't see.

 

[PerryM]

Measured performance....

Now this is a reasonable position. I agree that there is no guarantee that PAs activities will result in something positive for WorldMark owners. I do give him credit for trying.

It could result in Wyndham letting WorldMark languish like Equivest. Some would argue that that would be better for owners. Others would argue that it wouldn't.

I don't know when and if PA or someone else from the "outside" ever gets on the WM BOD but here is how I'm going to measure their impact:

I get eMails every day from many WM resellers -I'm going to pick one, Jeff Fudge, and keep all of them from now on. Then I'm going to run an average of the last 20 offers (Normalized with 6 cent rentals) and publish this statistic on WMowners.com

We will then get a clear picture of how things are going on in the mind of the WM owners wanting out.

If the average resale goes up one year from now I will jump for joy, if the average goes down I'll ask for scalps.

Hopefully there won't be a lot of bickering about this since anyone can cook up their own measuring stick - mine is NOT subjective but measurable, verifiable, and can be duplicated.

We will then see if "WorldMark by owners for owners" is just a bumper sticker on a rusted out idea.

Simple...

 

[PA-]

...
I get eMails every day from many WM resellers -I'm going to pick one, Jeff Fudge, and keep all of them from now on. Then I'm going to run an average of the last 20 offers (Normalized with 6 cent rentals) and publish this statistic on WMowners.com

We will then get a clear picture of how things are going on in the mind of the WM owners wanting out.
...

Just my opinion of course, but I believe you've picked the one reseller guaranteed to give the most variable data (hence least reliable). Why? Because Jeff Fudge allows the owner to pick their own price, and he simply deducts his commission. So an owner that's unknowledgeable might take far less than they need to, or might price so high they don't get a sale.

A much more reliable barometer is average Ebay pricing, though that requires more work to monitor. A simple, yet more reliable measure than Jeff Fudge would be one of the resellers that has a set price (like redseasons).