Problem with Timeshare Rentals

[TravelTime]

And how did they pay you?

Through his credit card on Venmo

 

[TravelTime]

Is it too late to deposit the week into II? If so, would it be restricted to check ins with just 2 months availability?

 

[billymach4]

I rent maybe 1x per year. Repeat customer for many years. My contract is bullet proof. In May of 2020 with Covid raging Ocean Pointe was virtually a ghost town. If it were anyone else I would have not budged. Marriott gave me a replacement week. I let him go this past year due the 2020 Covid lost week. I would tell your renter to take a hike. Keep the rent money. Not your problem.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

This is my first rental. I have always avoided renting to avoid this type of stuff. I should not have offered to refund half but I did. My mistake.

You gave verbal options, however I don't see that as binding if you had a written agreement and he is rescinding his agreement to non-refundability. Why would you hold to a verbal when he cannot keep to his word in writing or verbal. I would tell him that you had a chance to review your contract, it states non-refundability so you are sticking with the contract because you cannot re-rent it. He can find a guest, or relative to use it or re-rent it himself and you will provide a free guest certificate (which costs money).

HOWEVER:

If you don't have a signed contract he could contest it with the credit card and win. So splitting the difference and taking away a good lesson to use a contract next time. is a good option. Alternatively, if he can find someone to take the rental and pay you full price, you could refund another 25% so keep 25% for your time and headache, and you get the rental paid for.

 

[emeryjre]

The people that have rented units before keep emphasizing that a signed contract is very important. I agree completely that a signed contract is important, especially in situations such as the one travel time has encountered. As has been pointed out, without a signed contract detailing the terms of cancellation, there is a strong chance the credit card company will side with the renter.

Making the contract process simpler and easy was the focus of Docusign. The downside of Docusing is the cost of the program.

Is anyone familiar with an inexpensive software program that functions like Docusign?

 

[TravelTime]

I did not have a formal rental agreement in spite of knowing I should have had one. I was thinking that having it written in the ad and also reinforcing in my email confirmation would suffice. In the future, if I have to rent, I will draw up a contract and write “no refunds regardless of reason including medical conditions, pandemics, inability to travel, or any other reason” and I will state “Travel insurance is recommended to cover any changes or losses you may incur.” He did say he realized it was non-refundable but he asked for a replacement week. Maybe he assumed I could change the date. It is a loss for me no matter what.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I did not have a formal rental agreement in spite of knowing I should have had one. I was thinking that having it written in the ad and also reinforcing in my email confirmation would suffice. In the future, if I have to rent, I will draw up a contract and write “no refunds regardless of reason including medical conditions, pandemics, inability to travel, or any other reason” and I will state “Travel insurance is recommended to cover any changes or losses you may incur.” He did say he realized it was non-refundable but he asked for a replacement week. Maybe he assumed I could change the date. It is a loss for me no matter what.

You could check with a lawyer. The fact you have it in writing and is acknowledged by the renter may constitute a contract if you still have all of those comms. We have free legal consultations through my DH's employer benefits. You might too. Perhaps it's worth investigating.

 

[TravelTime]

You could check with a lawyer. The fact you have it in writing and is acknowledged by the renter may constitute a contract if you still have all of those comms. We have free legal consultations through my DH's employer benefits. You might too. Perhaps it's worth investigating.

Thank you. I am going to let it go and learn from this for the future. I did rent a 2 BR for the same week at the same resort. They have not canceled (knock on wood). It’s all a learning experience.

 

[emeryjre]

TravelTime,

Do not beat yourself up.

I have rented out units for 8 years and have never had a problem. I also realize that I am lucky.

I have never had to rely on the contract that was drawn up.

During the March 2020 pandemic rental fiasco, people had contracts with no cancellation provisions and the credit card companies provided refunds anyway.

It was just bad luck and timing that you had a problem renter on your first attempt.

I believe that an II deposit made by the end of the use year has no 60 day limitations. It is only if you cancel an exchange inside of 60 days does it become

 

[TravelTime]

TravelTime,

Do not beat yourself up.

I have rented out units for 8 years and have never had a problem. I also realize that I am lucky.

I have never had to rely on the contract that was drawn up.

During the March 2020 pandemic rental fiasco, people had contracts with no cancellation provisions and the credit card companies provided refunds anyway.

It was just bad luck and timing that you had a problem renter on your first attempt.

I believe that an II deposit made by the end of the use year has no 60 day limitations. It is only if you cancel an exchange inside of 60 days does it become

This would be a cancellation inside of 60 days so not sure if it would qualify. I will call II on Monday.

 

[elaine]

I’d also put it on various rental sites for the other 1/2 you’re out. And on last minute TUG. Many are teleworking and if it’s a great deal, you might get a last minute taker.

 

[hurnik]

Our daughter rents our Wyndham and our SBP weeks, lots of rentals every year. This is ongoing for the last 14 years. She is very clear in her contracts that refunds are not allowed within 60 days. The contract we use is on TUG, and it's a very good contract. She has altered it a bit to fit the times.

She has had people try to get refunds through their credit cards. She emails the contract to the credit card company, a contract signed by the renter, and the credit card company sides with our daughter and not with the renter. A contract is a contract. And what a pain it is for the credit card companies to have to deal with people who dispute valid charges on their cards, when so much fraud is already a big deal with credit cards.

Our daughter does tell everyone that travel insurance is a good idea. She doesn't sell it, but she has thought about selling it.

I think it also *may* depend on the credit card processor. I have to use PayPal or Venmo (owned by PayPal). I've read many horror stories where PayPal will simply ignore whatever proof/contract you have and side with the renter and possibly even shutdown your account. Not sure about Square (although I think Square requires an actual card to be swiped??)

 

[dioxide45]

Venmo, Zelle and other cash apps don't provide any recourse for the sender of the money. They don't work the same as a credit card. Once the money is sent, it is pretty much gone.

 

[dioxide45]

I think it also *may* depend on the credit card processor. I have to use PayPal or Venmo (owned by PayPal). I've read many horror stories where PayPal will simply ignore whatever proof/contract you have and side with the renter and possibly even shutdown your account. Not sure about Square (although I think Square requires an actual card to be swiped??)

Square doesn't require a credit card swipe, but the fee to manually enter a card number is higher. You can also invoice through Square and then the renter would enter their credit card information to make the payment. Things like check, Zelle and Venmo would be the better options to protect your rental proceeds from chargebacks.

 

[hurnik]

Square doesn't require a credit card swipe, but the fee to manually enter a card number is higher. You can also invoice through Square and then the renter would enter their credit card information to make the payment. Things like check, Zelle and Venmo would be the better options to protect your rental proceeds from chargebacks.

Thank you. I'll check out Square. Venmo has a strict policy that it can only be used for personal (not business) transactions and I've read several reports of shutdowns for folks using it that way (unless you get the Business account version which I think requires a hard pull on your credit report). According to the Zelle FAQ, it does not support credit cards, only debit cards.

 

[presley]

What's done is done. If you rent in the future, be sure to add a paragraph about no refunds no matter what reason and recommend they buy travel insurance.

 

[dioxide45]

Thank you. I'll check out Square. Venmo has a strict policy that it can only be used for personal (not business) transactions and I've read several reports of shutdowns for folks using it that way (unless you get the Business account version which I think requires a hard pull on your credit report). According to the Zelle FAQ, it does not support credit cards, only debit cards.

Square is certainly designed for business transactions. I know a few owners that use Square only to bill for rentals. There is of course the chance for a chargeback. If volume supports it, using an electronic document signature tool for contracts would also be a good decision. Docusign is a big operation, but I think Adobe has a tool that may be more reasonable for smaller operations.

 

[vacationtime1]

Call me a dinosaur, but I like personal checks. Most rentals are done weeks or months in advance, so there isn't a question of whether the check is good (and if it's not, the name on the rental can be changed back). Checks don't cost 3% of the amount transferred. Remember: possession is 90% of the law.

Yes, I have a written contract with a non-cancellation provision (unless the resort is closed) and an admonition to purchase travel insurance -- plus, I am not at the mercy of Square, credit card companies, or RedWeek Full Service.

 

[dioxide45]

Call me a dinosaur, but I like personal checks. Most rentals are done weeks or months in advance, so there isn't a question of whether the check is good (and if it's not, the name on the rental can be changed back). Checks don't cost 3% of the amount transferred. Remember: possession is 90% of the law.

Yes, I have a written contract with a non-cancellation provision (unless the resort is closed) and an admonition to purchase travel insurance -- plus, I am not at the mercy of Square, credit card companies, or RedWeek Full Service.

A problem with checks is you may be limiting your market reach. Not everyone even has checks anymore. Getting money orders have fees and going into a bank for a certified check has fees too. The younger generation, and many older ones, simply don't use and don't have checks.

 

[hurnik]

Square is certainly designed for business transactions. I know a few owners that use Square only to bill for rentals. There is of course the chance for a chargeback. If volume supports it, using an electronic document signature tool for contracts would also be a good decision. Docusign is a big operation, but I think Adobe has a tool that may be more reasonable for smaller operations.

Thanks! I do use Docusign (there's a bunch more getting in that arena now like Foxit and one of my local banks as well). I think the 12 sends or something/year for $100 is reasonable (makes it MUCH easier to folks to fill out, IMO). Plus then I don't have to wait for someone to print, sign, and then they don't have a scanner or fax machine, etc.

 

[DeniseM]

Not necessarily a mistake, but you need to know what your terms are in advance, and have a plan for dealing with cancellation requests.

 

[WackyLucy]

I did not have a formal rental agreement in spite of knowing I should have had one.

I was 31 posts deep into this thread before seeing any acknowledgement that there was actually no enforceable contract involved in this matter, just some email exchanges.

All things considered, if the late-cancelling party is content with a 50% refund, I would be inclined to just call it a day and a lesson learned, but YMMV. With some good fortune, you might still be able to find a renter if the price is right. Good luck.

 

[TravelTime]

I was 31 posts deep into this thread before seeing this acknowledgement that there was no enforceable contract at all in this matter, but apparently just some email exchanges.

All things considered, if the late-cancelling party is content with a 50% refund, I'd be inclined to just call it a day and a hard earned lesson. YMMV.

That is what I ended up doing. Going forward, I hope I have learned my lesson.

My post was more a rant about integrity than contracts. I would have the integrity to lose the fee if I canceled with 7 days notice, with or without a contract. If a renter gave me many months notice and I could re-rent it for the same amount, I would certainly give a full refund.

 

[Paumavista]

Rent to TUGGERS! I have rented 4 times this year 2 times with TUG "Friends" and twice with timeshare owners I came across on other sites - we didn't have a contract...... (Thank goodness it all worked out (I have been lucky & "talk" to those renting a unit to get a "feel" for who they are) - we all understood about timesharing - two people told me if I wanted to write something up they'd sign it). I love using TUG as my main vacation source, owners understand the deal and so do I. And "asking" for another week or refund was ok...."asking" is ok.....but saying "no, I'm sorry" is ok too.

 

[MrockStar]

I only rent here on TUG in the marketplace forum. So far so good.