Potentially signing MVC WKOR

[Travelgrasshopper]

To pile on, cancel and investigate. You could always buy this later if it was your choice though you'll learn there are MUCH better choices for you once you investigate.

Thank you. Yes we ended up not going thru with this. The sales person was outwardly not happy… it really put a bad taste in our mouth as my husband said best, “if she truly was telling us this is a great deal she wouldn’t be this mad that we didn’t sign, instead she would’ve been more encouraging.”

The sales rep said that we have “the old and new plan,” it was that we had a deed to WKOVR AND the Flex… which I don’t believe… it would be too good to be true for getting all of that for the price they are offering.

The. Ore I think of it, I do like the idea of the Flex in that we aren’t locked into going to the same place for the rest of our lives but it would be nice to lock into a highly desired vacation area (such as Maui).

I am super thankful for having found this site and for everyone’s genuine input and care. The sale rep made a comment that these sites are horrid and to not go down a rabbit hole… that was off putting as basically telling us don’t be educated on this and buy direct.

Moving forward, I’m going to dig deeper into learning whatever I can with re-sales and also see what works for us. I would love to get a TS but my husband isn’t on board with committing to one place for fear of being tired of it, so my thoughts are perhaps EOY and even then we can always try and rent out our time or trade for another vacation. Again, the Flex is appealing but I don’t trust it due to the limited amounts of rooms available. The resale cost is a wonderful route and even maintenance would still be cheaper than dishing out 4k+ for a week in Hawaii in the long run.

 

[Dean]

Thank you. Yes we ended up not going thru with this. The sales person was outwardly not happy… it really put a bad taste in our mouth as my husband said best, “if she truly was telling us this is a great deal she wouldn’t be this mad that we didn’t sign, instead she would’ve been more encouraging.”

The sales rep said that we have “the old and new plan,” it was that we had a deed to WKOVR AND the Flex… which I don’t believe… it would be too good to be true for getting all of that for the price they are offering.

The. Ore I think of it, I do like the idea of the Flex in that we aren’t locked into going to the same place for the rest of our lives but it would be nice to lock into a highly desired vacation area (such as Maui).

I am super thankful for having found this site and for everyone’s genuine input and care. The sale rep made a comment that these sites are horrid and to not go down a rabbit hole… that was off putting as basically telling us don’t be educated on this and buy direct.

Moving forward, I’m going to dig deeper into learning whatever I can with re-sales and also see what works for us. I would love to get a TS but my husband isn’t on board with committing to one place for fear of being tired of it, so my thoughts are perhaps EOY and even then we can always try and rent out our time or trade for another vacation. Again, the Flex is appealing but I don’t trust it due to the limited amounts of rooms available. The resale cost is a wonderful route and even maintenance would still be cheaper than dishing out 4k+ for a week in Hawaii in the long run.

Timeshare are a compromise. You've got to plan a year out, don't have much chance for change, might not get what you want, have to wait months if exchanging, no daily housekeeping, 3-4 star but not 5 and the like. Cheaper will be less flexible but the reality is that most people use it for a week or so and if they learn how to plan, owning to use and/or exchange is very workable for most. The idea of more guarantees is also usual a guarantee of a lot more cost, often tens of thousands of $$$ more. If you want to "try it out", just rent privately. If you think you want to move forward, buying something you'll use most of the time OR buying a GOOD trading unit is a great way to do so as the $$$ risks are very limited doing so. Say you buy a good trading unit for $3000 (or less), join II, pay a lockout fee, pay exchange fees and pay unit size upgrade fees plus yearly fees; you're talking maybe $2500 a year going forward for 2 weeks a year possibly in 2BR units for most of those. An EOY would be almost half yearly but not much less up front.

Look at a 7-10 year plan and ignore the next 18 months when evaluating. Look at other systems, there might be something out there that's a better fit for you.

 

[Travelgrasshopper]

Timeshare are a compromise. You've got to plan a year out, don't have much chance for change, might not get what you want, have to wait months if exchanging, no daily housekeeping, 3-4 star but not 5 and the like. Cheaper will be less flexible but the reality is that most people use it for a week or so and if they learn how to plan, owning to use and/or exchange is very workable for most. The idea of more guarantees is also usual a guarantee of a lot more cost, often tens of thousands of $$$ more. If you want to "try it out", just rent privately. If you think you want to move forward, buying something you'll use most of the time OR buying a GOOD trading unit is a great way to do so as the $$$ risks are very limited doing so. Say you buy a good trading unit for $3000 (or less), join II, pay a lockout fee, pay exchange fees and pay unit size upgrade fees plus yearly fees; you're talking maybe $2500 a year going forward for 2 weeks a year possibly in 2BR units for most of those. An EOY is would be almost half yearly but not much less up front.

Look at a 7-10 year plan and ignore the next 18 months when evaluating. Look at other systems, there might be something out there that's a better fit for you.

Wonderful thank you. I will need to look into all of this as I’m still in the infancy of understanding all of this such as good trading units (I would assume Maui is good trading), or what the 18m and 7-10 year plans are. I am still getting use to the platform here and I have seen people mentioning Stickies that is valuable to read so I will go and learn more. Additionally another poster mentioned a real estate timeshare seller so we are planning on talking with him to learn more.
Thank you for your info!

 

[echino]

If you buy a resale deeded week at WKORV, you are not locked into one resort. That ownership comes with StarOptions which transfer on resale, and you can use those StarOptions to book at other resorts in the Vistana network at 8 months, in addition to your home resort priority at 12 months.

 

[Dean]

Wonderful thank you. I will need to look into all of this as I’m still in the infancy of understanding all of this such as good trading units (I would assume Maui is good trading), or what the 18m and 7-10 year plans are. I am still getting use to the platform here and I have seen people mentioning Stickies that is valuable to read so I will go and learn more. Additionally another poster mentioned a real estate timeshare seller so we are planning on talking with him to learn more.
Thank you for your info!

When you buy a unit mostly for trading, you want good trade power, a low cost, a lockout and low yearly fees. HI is never going to fit that bill. If you want to use it most of the time and trade maybe once every 7-10 years, it might be fine but otherwise it would not be IMO. I am more familiar with the MVC resorts over Westin/Vistana. If you want to mostly trade to MVC, you want an MVC resort due to the II preference which doesn't currently extend to Westin or vice versa but might in the future. IMO the usual "traders" are going to be Willow Ridge, Grand Chateau, Grande Vista, Harbour Lake and possibly Manor Club ALL PLATINUM. HI is too expensive up front and yearly. One thing I didn't mention above is you need flexibility and usually more flexibility than most realize. For example it might be a 5-8 week span and 4 or more resorts for HI.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Moving forward, I’m going to dig deeper into learning whatever I can with re-sales and also see what works for us. I would love to get a TS but my husband isn’t on board with committing to one place for fear of being tired of it, so my thoughts are perhaps EOY and even then we can always try and rent out our time or trade for another vacation. Again, the Flex is appealing but I don’t trust it due to the limited amounts of rooms available. The resale cost is a wonderful route and even maintenance would still be cheaper than dishing out 4k+ for a week in Hawaii in the long run.

You've received excellent advice that has probably saved you from a very expensive and painful experience with owning a timeshare. My advice is to focus on buying a deeded property--not points--that meets the following criteria:

• The location is in a high demand area. Interval International publishes a Demand Index that is extremely helpful in showing you which locations are in high demand and at what times of the year. Here is an article that will educate you on the Demand Index.
• Be willing to pay an upfront premium for the ownership in order to maximize the unit's marketability. In other words, buy peak season and pay for a larger unit that can accommodate a large family. That way--if you decide not to use your timeshare in a given year--it will be easier to rent it or trade it and receive maximum value from your ownership.
• Do your homework on recent history of maintenance fee increases for the property and unit you are considering buying. Some systems really do a good job of holding down the fee increases while still maintaining the property well. Other systems will hit you with annual increases approaching 10% without compunction. You can find information on maintenance fees in the Stickies under each timeshare resort system listed on the home page.
• Since you're looking at the Westin system, be sure you understand the critical difference between Mandatory and Voluntary resorts. You will ALWAYS want to buy into a Mandatory resort. Why? Because when you buy a resale Mandatory resort unit, your unit will carry StarOptions that can be used to trade internally to other properties within the system. If you sell your unit, those same internal trade privileges will carry forward to your buyer and will substantially affect your resale value in a positive way. If you buy a Voluntary resort, the internal trading privileges are forfeited when the unit is sold in the resale market. Be sure to read the Stickies on the Westin system, which lists and explains which resorts are Mandatory and which are not.
• Make sure you're good at advance planning. You will need to reserve your deeded week at least eight months in advance of your planned travel date.
• As you may have noticed, hotel room rates have skyrocketed as the economy has emerged from the pandemic, causing the hospitality industry to accommodate all of the pent-up demand for travel. This has made timeshare ownership much more attractive. Where else can you get a 2BR unit with a full kitchen for $300-400/night? I will repeat what @echino said above: just because you buy at WKORV or WKORV-N, you are not locked into those resorts every year because they are Mandatory resorts. If, however, you buy at Westin Princeville, for example, or Westin Nanea, you will have no such flexibility because they are Voluntary resorts.

As always with timeshare purchases, you will really need to do your homework before making what you hope will be a wise and rewarding purchase.

 

[celica7101]

Wonderful thank you. I will need to look into all of this as I’m still in the infancy of understanding all of this such as good trading units (I would assume Maui is good trading), or what the 18m and 7-10 year plans are. I am still getting use to the platform here and I have seen people mentioning Stickies that is valuable to read so I will go and learn more. Additionally another poster mentioned a real estate timeshare seller so we are planning on talking with him to learn more.
Thank you for your info!

Syed is great. Have worked with him on two deals.

Many people here will say Maui units are not good traders due to the imbalance on maintenance fees vs rental pricing. May be true, may not be. Depends on whether or not you’re doing it every year or mostly going back to your home resort ownership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Likes to Travel]

I really prefer Westin but considered Marriott for a minute or two. The studio side at Marriott is not as good as the Westin.

We may buy Marriott in the future, but did you buy Lahaina and Napili, or did you buy MOC with limited kitchens? IF you bought the limited kitchens in Moloka, Lanai towers, is there a SA to make those kitchens more functional. I heard they are adding better kitchens and re-wiring to add washer/dryers.

I bought in the older towers with limited kitchen. I paid $17.5k for each of the annual 2bedroom 3 bath OF during Covid so it was a pretty good deal. They are also floating weeks 1-51 so they include Christmas week which will rent for over $8k. That is the biggest plus of the old tower. They are remodeling and at some point it will have a cooktop but not an oven. I think that is what the last letter said. The downside of the Marriott MOC for the next couple of years is the special assessment($1200???) to fix the plumbing. I like the location of the MOC better than the Westins as well.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Wonderful thank you. I will need to look into all of this as I’m still in the infancy of understanding all of this such as good trading units (I would assume Maui is good trading), or what the 18m and 7-10 year plans are. I am still getting use to the platform here and I have seen people mentioning Stickies that is valuable to read so I will go and learn more. Additionally another poster mentioned a real estate timeshare seller so we are planning on talking with him to learn more.
Thank you for your info!

For just $15 you can become a member of TUG. It is the best $15 you will ever spend! Go to the blue line above and click on "Support TUG".

Glad you found TUG in time to save your hard earned money!



.

 

[Travelgrasshopper]

You've received excellent advice that has probably saved you from a very expensive and painful experience with owning a timeshare. My advice is to focus on buying a deeded property--not points--that meets the following criteria:

• The location is in a high demand area. Interval International publishes a Demand Index that is extremely helpful in showing you which locations are in high demand and at what times of the year. Here is an article that will educate you on the Demand Index.
• Be willing to pay an upfront premium for the ownership in order to maximize the unit's marketability. In other words, buy peak season and pay for a larger unit that can accommodate a large family. That way--if you decide not to use your timeshare in a given year--it will be easier to rent it or trade it and receive maximum value from your ownership.
• Do your homework on recent history of maintenance fee increases for the property and unit you are considering buying. Some systems really do a good job of holding down the fee increases while still maintaining the property well. Other systems will hit you with annual increases approaching 10% without compunction. You can find information on maintenance fees in the Stickies under each timeshare resort system listed on the home page.
• Since you're looking at the Westin system, be sure you understand the critical difference between Mandatory and Voluntary resorts. You will ALWAYS want to buy into a Mandatory resort. Why? Because when you buy a resale Mandatory resort unit, your unit will carry StarOptions that can be used to trade internally to other properties within the system. If you sell your unit, those same internal trade privileges will carry forward to your buyer and will substantially affect your resale value in a positive way. If you buy a Voluntary resort, the internal trading privileges are forfeited when the unit is sold in the resale market. Be sure to read the Stickies on the Westin system, which lists and explains which resorts are Mandatory and which are not.
• Make sure you're good at advance planning. You will need to reserve your deeded week at least eight months in advance of your planned travel date.
• As you may have noticed, hotel room rates have skyrocketed as the economy has emerged from the pandemic, causing the hospitality industry to accommodate all of the pent-up demand for travel. This has made timeshare ownership much more attractive. Where else can you get a 2BR unit with a full kitchen for $300-400/night? I will repeat what @echino said above: just because you buy at WKORV or WKORV-N, you are not locked into those resorts every year because they are Mandatory resorts. If, however, you buy at Westin Princeville, for example, or Westin Nanea, you will have no such flexibility because they are Voluntary resorts.

As always with timeshare purchases, you will really need to do your homework before making what you hope will be a wise and rewarding purchase.

Thank you this was throughly written. I will look at the stickies and learn of the Demand Index, voluntary/mandatory TS!

 

[TAT]

Based on what you stated in the OP, I would look into resale at WKORV. If you buy resale, you do get deeded property, and you also will secure the summer weeks booking at the home resort when it’s time to start booking around school schedules. Keep in mind that you do have to plan and book 12 months out. This was what we did based on the same scenario of being loyal to Marriott/Sheraton and having the South building at WKORV be our #1 destination, with school aged children. You can find 2 bedroom lock-off, Annual Use, Ocean View for very cheap on the resale market (ours was 13.5K).

Cons to consider when buying resale vs developer:
You won’t be in the Abound program, and any other resort in the Vistana Program will only be available at 8 months out (after home ownerships get 12-8mo picks at the other resorts).
You won’t be able to trade the options associated with the resale for Bonvoy points (which is a terrible idea anyway).

I’d definitely rescind/not sign and do a bunch more research though. We sat through the same presentation on an Encore trip a few weeks ago. I went out to the pool and looked up the same amount of Westin Flex Options and found them on the market for 1/4 the price I was quoted in the presentation.

 

[MauiResales]

If you are only interested in the 8 properties in the Flex trust, a resale is the way to go. Points have sold for an average of $0.10 per point. Owners have 12 months out all the way up to check-in to make their reservation at any resort in the trust. You are not deeded to a specific bedroom type or view category; rather the amount of points you buy will determine where you can stay and for how long. 67,000 points will get you a studio in Maui for a week, 81,000 points will get you a 1BR, and 148,100 points will get you a 2BR. You cannot book oceanfront in Maui with Flex. This is a Voluntary program.

If you are interested in accessing the entire Vistana network or owning an oceanfront week, then a purchase at the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas South and North is a better fit for you. They are both Mandatory resorts that will also let you bank/borrow your week for up to a year and split your lock-off to stay two weeks.

You can also purchase a deeded oceanfront resale to stay specifically at the Westin Nanea. A 2BR oceanfront deed will be 176,700 points, and a 3BR oceanfront deed will be 257,700 points to stay a full week. This is a Voluntary resort with several restrictions on a resale.

-Mandy Mahinay, Licensed Hawaii Resale agent for Timeshare Resales Hawaii.

 

[brunrestz]

The only defenses you have are knowledge of the property/system and the ability to slow this down. Any deal offered today will be there for weeks if not months.

 

[NorcalDisFan]

I’ve been looking at wkorv/wkorvn resale listings for retro to enroll abound points. OF 2BR or week 52 IV has not good SO/MF but reasonable Abound points/MF without super high upfront cost, and westin has cheaper options for retro/enrollment for abound. ($10k for one week, $5k / week for additional weeks) But the retro program can stop at any time? Any thoughts?

 

[Headrules]

We bought 2 MOC Oceanfronts 2 bedroom from Syed and I have nothing but good things to say about him. The other option not mentioned (unless it was) is that if you buy through Syed you are not limited to Westin but could buy the Marriott Brand (Marriott Ocean Club) resale as well as he can get you what ever brand you want.

I agree with using Syed to purchase your resale. I have purchased two 2BR units at the North Building. He follows all aspects of the sale and always is available to answer questions

 

[rickandcindy23]

I’ve been looking at wkorv/wkorvn resale listings for retro to enroll abound points. OF 2BR or week 52 IV has not good SO/MF but reasonable Abound points/MF without super high upfront cost, and westin has cheaper options for retro/enrollment for abound. ($10k for one week, $5k / week for additional weeks) But the retro program can stop at any time? Any thoughts?

Marriott will want all Westin owners into Abound, but I don't care about it, even though we have Chairman's Level. I want to stay at Westin on Maui until I die. We own two weeks and love it there. We can book four weeks with the two lockoffs and at about $1,400-1,500 per week for oceanfront Maui. I shouldn't say that I will never use Abound, but I do not see that in our future 10 years. We know where we want to be.