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Posts By Non-Owners...Annoying?

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I may simply have a different perspective. Use different logic.

As long as the logic makes sense. Yes, TO ME. Let's stop being all PC and relativistic. For example, if you say it makes financial sense to purchase from the developer and I lay out incontrovertable proof that it financially does not, but you still stick to your guns claiming that it does in the face of directly conflicting evidence, your "different logic" is actually devoid of logic. At that point, I would ask you to pour me a shot of whatever that is you have in your glass because it sure is potent.

Just like we can acknowledge difference of opinions, let's also acknowledge that there can be plain wrong logic or facts.

Since we're being all relativistic and PC, who are you to tell me that I can't have and voice my opinion? I'm being tongue and cheek, so don't get riled up.
 
Exactly, we individually decide who is unable to see reason. Are you suggesting that you have never believed that someone was unreasonable? I doubt that. So is your point that it is appalling that I would actually stoop so low as to verbalize that belief? I really fail to understand what you are trying to say.

What is offensive about saying "chill out"?

Yes, Sue's chastisement of bogey21 was gentle. Her chastisement of me was not. Maybe it was our shared history of curfuffles that caused the claws to come out.

I keep telling you, Beef, this stuff does not upset me as much as you think it does. No claws, not curfuffling, just trying to lead you to explain yourself without it being necessary to insult someone else.

The difference between you and George is simple, by the way. George referred to himself and no one else as a koolaid drinker. You referred to unnamed others that way, obviously as an insult. (And, in what's becoming your typical MO, you then backed down when challenged to prove your point.)
 
As long as the logic makes sense. Yes, TO ME. Let's stop being all PC and relativistic. For example, if you say it makes financial sense to purchase from the developer and I lay out incontrovertable proof that it financially does not, but you still stick to your guns claiming that it does in the face of directly conflicting evidence, your "different logic" is actually devoid of logic. At that point, I would ask you to pour me a shot of whatever that is you have in your glass because it sure is potent.

Just like we can acknowledge difference of opinions, let's also acknowledge that there can be plain wrong logic or facts.

Since we're being all relativistic and PC, who are you to tell me that I can't have and voice my opinion? I'm being tongue and cheek, so don't get riled up.

you'll have to point out where I said you can't have and voice your opinion. But keep in mind, you don't make the rules on this site, and one of the rules is to Be Nice. I think you are not being nice. You say this is all tongue in cheek, but it doesn't read that way at all.

I believe that 2 people can see the same thing different ways. Maybe you see only dollars and cents while I see value and opportunity cost. These are related concepts but not identical. Maybe we have different timelines - you are in it for 5 years and I have a 20 year time horizon. Perhaps there are perks from the developer that have no value to you but that I will use A LOT, and it's a 'free w/ dev purchase' benefit. That changes the "incontrovertible proof" you believe to possess.

I would simply ask you to be a little more patient with those of us you find to be lacking the superior intelligence that you possess. ;)
 
Exactly, we individually decide who is unable to see reason. Are you suggesting that you have never believed that someone was unreasonable? I doubt that. So is your point that it is appalling that I would actually stoop so low as to verbalize that belief? I really fail to understand what you are trying to say.

What is offensive about saying "chill out"?

Yes, Sue's chastisement of bogey21 was gentle. Her chastisement of me was not. Maybe it was our shared history of curfuffles that caused the claws to come out.

You come off condescending, that's what's offensive about "chill out". I say that to my dog. You aren't my Dad, you do not get to tell me to chill out or quit being pc or anything of the kind. You seem to want to control the behavior and even thought patterns of others. That is offensive to me.

It's not offensive to me that you fail to understand what I'm trying to say. I instead find it comical.
 
I keep telling you, Beef, this stuff does not upset me as much as you think it does. No claws, not curfuffling, just trying to lead you to explain yourself without it being necessary to insult someone else.

The difference between you and George is simple, by the way. George referred to himself and no one else as a koolaid drinker. You referred to unnamed others that way, obviously as an insult. (And, in what's becoming your typical MO, you then backed down when challenged to prove your point.)

By saying he stopped drinking the kool-aid and selling, that implicitly says something about those who remain. I'll need to work on my subtle ways of saying much of the same thing. As for my typical MO, I backed down on a specific challenge from you, which says a lot about my willingness to be introspective. I still stand by my kool-aid comments, as insulting as you find them to be. There are those on TUG who are inflexible and intellectually dishonest when presented with conflicting evidence. One of these days or months, just for you, I just might highlight some of those kool-aid perspectives I had come across during my Marriott research. I'll leave out names, yours included, to protect the innocent. Of course I might incite a riot...
 
You come off condescending, that's what's offensive about "chill out". I say that to my dog. You aren't my Dad, you do not get to tell me to chill out or quit being pc or anything of the kind. You seem to want to control the behavior and even thought patterns of others. That is offensive to me.

It's not offensive to me that you fail to understand what I'm trying to say. I instead find it comical.

You can choose to chill out or not chill out. Did I say "if you don't chill out, I will come hunt you down"? Uh, no. So the controlling behavior or thought patterns comment is absurd.
 
you'll have to point out where I said you can't have and voice your opinion. But keep in mind, you don't make the rules on this site, and one of the rules is to Be Nice. I think you are not being nice. You say this is all tongue in cheek, but it doesn't read that way at all.

I believe that 2 people can see the same thing different ways. Maybe you see only dollars and cents while I see value and opportunity cost. These are related concepts but not identical. Maybe we have different timelines - you are in it for 5 years and I have a 20 year time horizon. Perhaps there are perks from the developer that have no value to you but that I will use A LOT, and it's a 'free w/ dev purchase' benefit. That changes the "incontrovertible proof" you believe to possess.

I would simply ask you to be a little more patient with those of us you find to be lacking the superior intelligence that you possess. ;)

Can't please everyone. Actually, I don't try. Being PC is way too much work.

I have never suggested that there is no room for different perspectives. What I have said is that there is a such thing as wrong logic or facts. If someone says that something makes sense financially and I demonstrate that it does not, then they are free to respond with "Ok, yes I acknowledge that there is a $15,000 developer premium which cannot be justified financially, however I didn't really think it through or I was ok to pay that premium for <this or that perk> even though financially I could not in good conscience tell someone else that the perk was worth $15k." That's great, fine, we'd have no problem. I still think it's a weasely way of answering, but there'd be no beef. You rationalized your purchase in whatever way you wanted to, but you didn't stand firm on the indefensible.
 
I guess I fail to see why you give a crap, tho? Seems to me that you are just trying to make people feel stupid, and I don't support that, no matter how much I may disagree with someone. They are entitled to use whatever logic they want. I just don't find belittling people to be a good sport. The world is full of all types. You don't really expect to change those that do not kowtow to your "incontrovertible logic" do you?

If it irks you, well, you've only been here a few months, it will be many years of headaches if this is an annoyance for you.
 
I guess I fail to see why you give a crap, tho? Seems to me that you are just trying to make people feel stupid, and I don't support that, no matter how much I may disagree with someone. They are entitled to use whatever logic they want. I just don't find belittling people to be a good sport. The world is full of all types. You don't really expect to change those that do not kowtow to your "incontrovertible logic" do you?

If it irks you, well, you've only been here a few months, it will be many years of headaches if this is an annoyance for you.

It doesn't irk me at all. I actually find it more entertaining the ways that some choose to rationalize the unrationalizable. But you raise an interesting point. The way I tend to debate, I don't really like to leave people an out just so that they can save face. I prefer for them to have to defend their logic to the end until they win, concede, or we realize that we've arrived at a draw. I expect the same treatment in return. When SueDonJ challenged me on a thread to defend comments I had aimed at her about her posts in that particular thread. Rereading back her posts, I realized I had to concede. Didn't weasel out, just admitted I was wrong.

Some folks find that too confrontational a style.
 
one of the things that appears to be coming up >

ad hominem attack = attacking a person, rather than a position
ad hominem attack = a position itself

and it should be pointed out when people have a habit of unconstructive posts, for two reasons - context and avoiding further unconstructive posts/replies
 
Beefnot just needs a hug i say we all gather around and give him a big group hug!

:bawl: Aw shucks, thank you, brother from another mother. You just might have earned yourself a rental one day at just the exchange cost.
 
one of the things that appears to be coming up >

ad hominem attack = attacking a person, rather than a position
ad hominem attack = a position itself

and it should be pointed out when people have a habit of unconstructive posts, for two reasons - context and avoiding further unconstructive posts/replies

Don't fully understand what you wrote here. But hey, I thought it was pretty copastetic until one, ahem, unnamed Marriott owner took offense at a comment I made. A repeated pavlovian response by this, ahem, unnamed individual I may add. Unfortunately, I am not wired to remain above any fray. I can't help but to get dirty when the mud is slung directly at me. :)
 
This thread is out of control. TUG rules specifically say to refrain from behavior lectures and personal insults. There have been plenty of both flying back and forth in this thread.

It's time to move on to another topic.

Thread closed.

Steve
TUG Moderator
 
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