Postcard companies: How the transfer takes place between original owner and new buyer

[rickandcindy23]

I'm struggling with this logic. Based on your disdain for them, why would you merely want to decrease their revenues rather than run them out of business? If you merely slow your enemies, they'll come back to haunt you; crushing them out of existence is the necessary course of action.

Mark

Because we can't put them out of business. I work in small steps. This has only occurred to me in the last six weeks. This is all about prevention, because I cannot come up with a cure. We can only do what we can do. It is all about making an effort to help others. Postcard companies don't really help people, but we can.

 

[bruwery]

Mark, if your resort is run very well, as you say, then certainly some owners would jump at the chance for free weeks. There is no need to charge a dime for anything, so no marketing is required. You could advertise them here on TUG. Why pay the postcard companies even $1.00 + closing costs. Let's let the resorts make the cash closing the weeks themselves.

If your HOA board wants to educate owners, there is no reason they cannot. I few paragraphs in a newsletter, warning them about postcard companies would be appropriate. Education must come from the resorts, because where else is going to happen? A mention of TUG in the newsletter would also be a great idea. We can educate people here.

Even giving them away takes time on the part of mgmt. Besides, that lowers my resale value when people find out they can get it for free!! (See that - I'm all about ME. Selfish, selfish.)

I DO agree that a blurb in the newsletter could be productive. As much as I'd like to argue with everything you say, I like that idea.

Mark

 

[rickandcindy23]

Selling on ebay is hurting your resale value. If your resort offers them for free, then you just get more timeshares!

I just know this will work. I also feel that this is something I am supposed to do. If the postcard companies come after me, then I will have all of you backing me up. I don't think the mafia owns any of these companies.

 

[bruwery]

Ahh.... you own at Cypress Pointe. What a wonderful resort with a great board. Of course, John Chase is all about stopping postcard companies from doing this to the owners at your resort. He included a blurb about this very thing in your newsletter. He was ahead of me on this idea and I should have given him credit.

Hmm. I think I bought my week from a postcard company. Better put that blurb in bold print, John... I will say, though, that CP activity on E-Bay has decreased considerably in the past year. Hopefully that trend continues.

Mark

 

[nazclk]

What I find amusing.

Cindy if you are dealing with a postcard company, their name will show on the contract of sale as an attorney in fact. I assume you signed a contract to purchase, before you got the deed, correct? But geez a timeshare salesperson lied to you After you found this out did you cancel the sale and demand your money back, I think not. So why don't you sell the timeshare you just bought and send the money to the original sellers
and help them poor people out. I'm sure you could find another bargain and
just maybe it won't be from a postcard company, but then again evil lurks

 

[PigsDad]

Cindy,

Don't get me wrong -- I am all for educating TS owners. Your idea of putting information in the newsletters is great.

But like Mark, I am concerned about having HOAs being distracted from their HOA duties by also having to play the salesman role. I don't think that is or should be their responsibility. If they are taking on extra tasks, something will have to give. I just don't believe that is in the best interest of the existing owners. And if the HOA decided to contract out that service, how would that differ from the postcard companies? That contractor would have to make a profit for what they were doing.

The postcard companies also provide TS buyers a service (in an indirect way): they funnel more timeshare resales to a common marketplace -- Ebay. As a buyer, I would much rather look in one common marketplace than have to contact dozens or more resorts to find a TS that I wanted to buy.

Kurt

 

[rickandcindy23]

Cindy if you are dealing with a postcard company, their name will show on the contract of sale as an attorney in fact. I assume you signed a contract to purchase, before you got the deed, correct? But geez a timeshare salesperson lied to you After you found this out did you cancel the sale and demand your money back, I think not. So why don't you sell the timeshare you just bought and send the money to the original sellers
and help them poor people out. I'm sure you could find another bargain and
just maybe it won't be from a postcard company, but then again evil lurks

The one I just bought is probably not from a postcard company, although I never know until I get the final deed. I was directed to pay Timeshare Transfer directly, via a cashier's check. These guys do lie. To give Ochoas a little benefit of the doubt, I do know they sell for other people, along with a postcard company. A TUG member actually listed his Marriott Kauai timeshare with Thomas a few months back. TOchoa used to sell Timeshare Relief weeks that closed with Timeshare Closing Services, but he now uses Title Outlet. I don't know how Title Outlet and TCS are related, but I believe Thomas and Doug are both still with VINinc.

Again, I am not telling you folks not to buy from these companies. I want to stop the seemingly neverending supply.

Please do not take this as a criticism, if you enjoy your bargains. Enjoy it while you are able. Keep buying the weeks you see and bid as low as possible. :rofl:

 

[wbtimesharer]

If the HOA were to take back weeks and offer them for free or a small fee to existing owners first, they might find happy owners that would add weeks to their holdings and continue to pay the MF with no issues. If they still ended up with inventory, they could offer it to the public at a small fee also and sell them just like the postcard companies do.

While this may sound hunky dory initially, how often do you see people wanting to get rid of red week units versus White or Blue Weeks. If the resort begins taking back weeks without exception, they could end up with a number of units that are impossible to give away. See Ebay for those $1 Blue week units at resorts with the very high MF that nobody wants.

In a newer resort that is actively selling units, that may be easier to handle than an older resort that has a very minimal sales staff. I believe that postcard companies like some timesharers are in the business to make money. They often are picking up units of the "can't give em away" variety and the money they receive for taking them off people's hands does go to cover they risk they assume. That risk is having to cover MF until the unit sells.

My opinion is that these companies do no greater disservice than the mulitude of online TS "realtors" that charge $500 to $1000 to place an ad on their site and then do little to try to sell the property. In that case, the owner still pays the MF while his/her unit stagnates on the site.

And are the postcard companies anymore evil than the resorts who overcharge for their product. I would assume that anyone having issue with these companies, would not only refuse to buy from them but would also never buy resale for less than what the going resort rate. That way their Seller is never victimized.

Bill

 

[mengberg]

We currently have a week that has been stopped at Timeshare Transfer for 8 weeks, due to ROFR that PAHIO claims to have but really doesn't.

.....


I have great disdain toward the postcard companies. They make their money no matter what, but the original owners pay.

Please translate ROFR for a newbie.

First off, I agree that what you describe the postcard companies as doing as being pretty awful. But .... not sure if what they are doing is any worse than the original timeshare company so not sure why you would have so much more animosity towards them.

For example.
Timeshare company sells you timeshare for $12000 that you later find out you could have bought on ebay for $4000. (I'm being generous here.) Your loss, $8000.

Postcard company makes you pay them $4000 to take the timeshare off your hands. Your loss, $4000.

Seems like the timeshare company screwed you twice as bad! That doesn't make either one all any less rotten but you seem to hate the postcard companies so much more!
(hmmm, on 2nd thought, if you could have actuall have sold it on ebay for $4000, I suppose you could now figure your loss as $8000. So maybe they're both just as bad)

Mike

 

[Quimby4]

Please translate ROFR for a newbie.

First off, I agree that what you describe the postcard companies as doing as being pretty awful. But .... not sure if what they are doing is any worse than the original timeshare company so not sure why you would have so much more animosity towards them.

For example.
Timeshare company sells you timeshare for $12000 that you later find out you could have bought on ebay for $4000. (I'm being generous here.) Your loss, $8000.

Postcard company makes you pay them $4000 to take the timeshare off your hands. Your loss, $4000.

Seems like the timeshare company screwed you twice as bad! That doesn't make either one all any less rotten but you seem to hate the postcard companies so much more!
(hmmm, on 2nd thought, if you could have actuall have sold it on ebay for $4000, I suppose you could now figure your loss as $8000. So maybe they're both just as bad)

Mike

Right of First Refusal: The resort has 1st option to purchase back the unit at the sales price agreed upon with seller and private party.

Interesting analogy...I thought of the same thing..

 

[eoneguru]

About 3 weeks ago, I purchased a unit from Doug Ochoa and he is using Title Outlet. It's a little early in the process to judge, but, so far, it seems to be going OK. At the time I purchased, I started a thread to get some comments about the process. A few members mentioned that they had bought from Doug and used TO, and all said they had a good experience with him. One or two said that Tom was not as good to deal with. I have e-mailed Doug, a few times, with questions and he always responded quickly and has been very helpful. I get the impression, from reading this and many other posts, that these companies, many times, may treat the buyer better then the seller. This being my first purchase, I don't know how much weight my opinion carries. Don't know, like i said, this all very new to me and maybe if I hang around longer I will think differently.
Ray

 

[rickandcindy23]

brennumtimesharer and mengberg, I get your points. I cannot take on the salespeople or the upfront fee companies with this subject. I have only one focus right now.

If you buy a Hawaii week, 2 bedroom, for $36K from Bali Hai, you are buying a 1/51 share of a unit. If you check the price of a nice condo on Hawaii, with all of the amenities and the resort location that is Princeville, and furnished , you will pay way over a million for it. Not many of us would ever be able to afford it. There is value in what they are selling. They might be better off selling them as wholly owned, actually, with all the costs involved in the selling process.

If you buy 51 weeks at the same resort for $6K on eBay (this is high for these units), you will own almost a full year for way less than the value of the resort. You could live there full time. About $4K a month for fees, but you get bi-weekly housekeeping service, including someone who washes towels and sheets. :whoopie: If the HOA ever chose to sell as wholly owned at some point (there is one resort in Princeville doing just that), you would be sitting well, with all those weeks.

So now compare that you now own in Hawaii, that the value is there (much better than a $36K unit in Orlando), though not as high as you paid because timeshare is still expensive, so now a postcard company tells you that you can never get rid of it, even for $1.00 on ebay, the fees go on forever and ever, your heirs will inherit (and not be happy about it the ongoing debt). So now that person, who already had major buyer's remorse for purchasing it, because they have no idea how to rent it, believes the only way out is to pay $3,495.

Which salesperson is really worse? I have been told by many TUGgers, who are much smarter than I, that this is still real estate, still deeded forever. There is value in what we are purchasing.

 

[nazclk]

Just An Fyi

Tom and Doug are no longer with VIN Inc. they started their own
and that's why they use Title Outlet.

 

[rickandcindy23]

So what is their postcard company called? I have a slew of postcards in my collection. I got my first-ever postcard right after my purchase from Thomas Ochoa, who was with VINinc at the time. I know that is how I got on the mailing list for Timeshare Relief.

 

[wbtimesharer]

brennumtimesharer and mengberg, I get your points. I cannot take on the salespeople or the upfront fee companies with this subject. I have only one focus right now.

If you buy a Hawaii week, 2 bedroom, for $36K from Bali Hai, you are buying a 1/51 share of a unit. If you check the price of a nice condo on Hawaii, with all of the amenities and the resort location that is Princeville, and furnished , you will pay way over a million for it. Not many of us would ever be able to afford it. There is value in what they are selling. They might be better off selling them as wholly owned, actually, with all the costs involved in the selling process.

If you buy 51 weeks at the same resort for $6K on eBay (this is high for these units), you will own almost a full year for way less than the value of the resort. You could live there full time. About $4K a month for fees, but you get bi-weekly housekeeping service, including someone who washes towels and sheets. :whoopie: If the HOA ever chose to sell as wholly owned at some point (there is one resort in Princeville doing just that), you would be sitting well, with all those weeks.

So now compare that you now own in Hawaii, that the value is there (much better than a $36K unit in Orlando), though not as high as you paid because timeshare is still expensive, so now a postcard company tells you that you can never get rid of it, even for $1.00 on ebay, the fees go on forever and ever, your heirs will inherit (and not be happy about it the ongoing debt). So now that person, who already had major buyer's remorse for purchasing it, because they have no idea how to rent it, believes the only way out is to pay $3,495.

Which salesperson is really worse? I have been told by many TUGgers, who are much smarter than I, that this is still real estate, still deeded forever. There is value in what we are purchasing.

I guess I still have a hard time trying to justify running the postcard companies out of business. While they are buzzards, they still serve a purpose of helping the uneducated and uninterested detach themselves from yearly MF that continue to go up. In other words, these buzzards help clean the carrion off the timeshare highway and fatten themselves in the process.

Consider this Hawaaii scenario. Retired person X travels to Hawaii for his/her first time and gets sucked into buying a Christmas week for 45,000 with a MF of say $700 a year. After returning home, retired person X suddenly realizes that there is no way that they will be able to afford the 1000+ airline ticket to travel every year. They aren't really all that interested in the exchange game as their interests just don't go there.

Two years and $1500 later as the MF are now $800, retired person meets postcard company weasel and is talked into paying $2500 to have the weasel take over the unit. Weasel turns around and sells it on Ebay for 2300 and profits either 4000 -4800 depending on how fast it moves.

While retired person is out 47500 (purchase price + ogre's payoff), he is feeling good because the bleeding of $800/year has ended and he can stop worrying. Of course, he just learned a very valuable lesson on timesharing and will be much more wary the next time if there is one.

Both the hideous monster and the retiree walk away feeling some relief. Obviously, the demon spawn is absolutely giddy while the innocent ex-owner is just graying a bit slower.

I personally will buy from these guys but won't be handing over any money for them to take what I own.

Bill

 

[eoneguru]

Cindy, FYI ......

Tom and Doug's company is called "The Timeshare Group, LLC." and their web siite is www.sellmeyourtimeshare.com.

Ray

 

[falmouth3]

The internal links on their website don't appear to be working.

Sue

 

[eoneguru]

The internal links on their website don't appear to be working.

Sue

At first, the only one that work for me was the "Sell" link. But, for some unknown reason, they all eventually worked. This may be a new site and having startup problems.

Ray

 

[nazclk]

Postcard Company

I have no idea, as I am not one of the fortunate one's who gets postcards

 

[bogey21]

I don't know how many of you have attended one of the Post Card Company's get togethers. Well I have, and here are my observations:

# Most attendees are old; many successfully used their Week in years
past; some have unsuccessfully tried to sell their week; most are
not interested in using it anymore; and almost all are tired of the
escalating MFs

# The presenters tell two big lies which are very effective, (1) that your
heirs will be saddled with the MFs forever (I think in many states a will
can state that an heir may refuse to accept a bequest), and (2) that
the one disposing of the Week may deduct the sum of their original cost
plus the disposition fee paid to the Post Card Company on Schedule D
of their tax return by stating that they purchased the Week for "Invest-
ment" purposes.

# From the percentage of the attendees who stayed for a private consulta-
tion, I suspect the Post Card Company has a pretty good success rate.

# I also suspect that those paying the Post Card Company to take their
Week are satisfied. They are looking at it as (1) cleaning up their estate,
(2) paying 3 years of MFs up front to get out from under them forever;
and (3) getting a large Income Tax Deduction

GEORGE

 

[rickandcindy23]

brennumtimesharer, I have mentioned alternatives here to the unwanted timeshare dilemma that you mention. I think when a resort is successful, has a good HOA board and is desirable to those who own there, you will have an automatic market for FREE timeshares. I truly believe that the owners will want the weeks;so they can get rid of the weeks easily, between the current owners, their families and friends. Put the word out to everyone, make it the focus of the board to spread the word. There is always TUG and www.timeshareforums.com to list free weeks, too.

 

[PigsDad]

I think when a resort is successful, has a good HOA board and is desirable to those who own there, you will have an automatic market for FREE timeshares. I truly believe that the owners will want the weeks;so they can get rid of the weeks easily, between the current owners, their families and friends. Put the word out to everyone, make it the focus of the board to spread the word.

So here is an idea: let owners advertise their unwanted timeshares in the property's newsletter. If other owners will want the weeks, the sellers should have no problem giving them away, right? Then that keeps the HOA out of the business of acting as sales agents. I don't see any need for the HOA to ever get involved with taking back TS units from owners.

Kurt

 

[rickandcindy23]

It is naive for you to believe that an HOA should never get back timeshares, as they do get them back all the time, mostly through a long and aggravating foreclosure process. Our resort in Fraser currently has 100+ weeks that were mostly taken back after spending tens of thousands of dollars to foreclose. This is costly for resorts, so why not just let people give their weeks back?

I do agree that advertising free through a newsletter is one way to help owners, but newsletters only once per year is not going to be enough. They need a website that is kept up and perhaps a Yahoo Usergroup as well.

When I first realized what was happening with postcard companies 18 months ago, or whenever, it has gradually been bothering me more and more. The constant postcard mailings we personally get are a further reminder of how big this problem has become. When you have a collection of 8 different postcards, from 8 different companies, it is apparent that this sleazy business has caught on in a big way and I want to curtail it some. The big companies will survive this slight decrease in business. The newer companies will become discouraged--which is great.

I wonder how many TUG members are involved with these types of companies.

 

[wbtimesharer]

brennumtimesharer, I have mentioned alternatives here to the unwanted timeshare dilemma that you mention. I think when a resort is successful, has a good HOA board and is desirable to those who own there, you will have an automatic market for FREE timeshares. I truly believe that the owners will want the weeks;so they can get rid of the weeks easily, between the current owners, their families and friends. Put the word out to everyone, make it the focus of the board to spread the word. There is always TUG and www.timeshareforums.com to list free weeks, too.

You are assuming a number of things:

1) That existing owners want to own additional weeks at the same resort. Probably true if the week is a prime week, not so much if non-prime. And those non-prime weeks are definately not free with MF running between $500 and $700 a year.

2) That you can give away every timeshare. I think EBAY has proven that you simply can't give some timeshares away. People don't want to pay $500 to $700 to vacation every November(Non-Turkey Day week) at Telemark. You couldn't pay someone $2000 to take it(wait that scheme sounds familar).

3) The HOA's want to handle listing weeks for free. Most HOA's don't want the hassel of being in between the buyer and seller unless they are getting a 10 - 20% cut of the pie to cover their costs. 20% of nothing isn't much.

4) That the same person who got conned into paying 40% more than the true value of a timeshare week will always educate themselves and become fervent timesharers. The will take the time to study how to sell a timeshare and will work hours upon hours trying to sell it themselves for 70 to 99% less than they paid for it. I think the Postcard companies exist because suckers exist who bought something they really didn't want or need.



I know that lies are spread during the presentation put out by the Postcard companies. But they aren't much more hideous than those spread by Timeshare companies when they talk about all the money that will be saved on vacations after investing 30 - 50 grand and paying 500 to 1000 a year in MF's. Not to mention all the additional expenses of being exchange company members.


As I said before, timeshare suckers will get screwed coming and going. You just need to worry about not being THE sucker.

 

[coppersmom1]

I don't know how many of you have attended one of the Post Card Company's get togethers. Well I have, and here are my observations:

# Most attendees are old; many successfully used their Week in years
past; some have unsuccessfully tried to sell their week; most are
not interested in using it anymore; and almost all are tired of the
escalating MFs

# The presenters tell two big lies which are very effective, (1) that your
heirs will be saddled with the MFs forever (I think in many states a will
can state that an heir may refuse to accept a bequest), and (2) that
the one disposing of the Week may deduct the sum of their original cost
plus the disposition fee paid to the Post Card Company on Schedule D
of their tax return by stating that they purchased the Week for "Invest-
ment" purposes.

# From the percentage of the attendees who stayed for a private consulta-
tion, I suspect the Post Card Company has a pretty good success rate.

# I also suspect that those paying the Post Card Company to take their
Week are satisfied. They are looking at it as (1) cleaning up their estate,
(2) paying 3 years of MFs up front to get out from under them forever;
and (3) getting a large Income Tax Deduction

GEORGE

In my post (beginning "WARNING" on this board) I discussed the previous owner of our week. You are right on at least 2 parts that I know of with them- the postcard co. WAS very successful. He said tons of people were happily handing them money to NOT sell, but "rent out" their weeks (supposedly). Also they would have been happy had the co. done as promised- take it OUT of their name right away. They became unhappy quickly when they did sell it AND more so when they did not take it out of their name. Since I paid the maintenance fee upfront on e-bay, at least that was paid for them. Of course the postcard co. says THEY paid it out of their own pockets...