Please help [we bought] HGV and [we were scammed]

[iftravel]

Do you think they will send extra document for closing ? Or automatically after recession end they close it on their end ?

Ask the escrow agent - which I don’t know but must exist. They might know what’s still needed or perhaps you already signed all the documents including the loan document, which means they might have the fund already in account to close it, which is bad. But otherwise it’s good news and the worst is you default on contract and lose deposit.

Additionally, do all you can to delay / defer closing including dispute on the credit card charge - calling it a fraud or whatever might also help. Bottom line is if the escrow receives enough money (from you, credit card or personal loan company) to close it.

 

[LeslieDet]

to be honest i don’t know i believe it said club activation will occur in approximately 30-45 days, provide your contract is closed. The recession date i passed it . Its on 29th of oct. this is also i can show some of the agreement in contract perhaps someone can help me to translate it to a easier english?
Also i call hilton i said i want to cancle they told me to pay the loan first i just don’t understand if i’m still in transition of cancellation

Notify the seller in writing that you are refusing to close the transaction and opting to default prior to closing; thus pursuant to 14.2 of the contract, you are forfeiting the deposit as liquidated damages for your decision to refuse to close. The seller will retain the deposit as liquidated damages. Don't wait until closing to do it. Tell them now. It sounds like closing is to be in early December, but I can't really tell from this feed.

 

[LeslieDet]

Unfortunately given that your legal rescission period has passed there really is no valid option to cancel your contract at this point.

you can make an effort to become a squeaky wheel and constantly demand they let you out of your contract (works better on social media etc) but thats a rather low chance of success...just not zero. this strategy has a much higher chance of success if you can detail who/when/why/where/how you were misled or lied to....vs simply having buyers remorse aa month later.

the other option is to stop paying though that comes with the expected possible negative ramifications of defaulting on the loan etc.

There is a short time frame between the expiration of the rescission period and prior to closing where a buyer can default. Yes, that is a breach of contract. The "cost" of the default is forfeiture of the deposit paid. That is the liquidated damages the seller is typically entitled to pursuant to the T&C of the purchase agreement. If the purchase has not yet closed, it is much better to anticipatorily breach the contract rather than actually perform and close the transaction, thereby obligating yourself to pay the agreed upon purchase sum.

 

[TUGBrian]

There is a short time frame between the expiration of the rescission period and prior to closing where a buyer can default. Yes, that is a breach of contract. The "cost" of the default is forfeiture of the deposit paid. That is the liquidated damages the seller is typically entitled to pursuant to the T&C of the purchase agreement. If the purchase has not yet closed, it is much better to anticipatorily breach the contract rather than actually perform and close the transaction, thereby obligating yourself to pay the agreed upon purchase sum.

curious as to the range of this period...and guessing its based on individual state law?

 

[WorldT]

As @LeslieDet said, section 14.2 does not allow the buyer to get the funds back. Just like when you go into a contract to buy a house but you don't close, the down payment goes to the seller (at least in Texas) unless the reason for failure to close is exempted in the contract(one common one is bank refusing to issue the mortgage).
If closing has not happened yet, send a email/letter saying you will not be closing and want to terminate the agreement. Your down payment is gone but there is no more debt.

 

[Maeris]

We will send the writting letters along with the contract to hgv and escrow company stating that we been lied to on promise and sales rep did not mention any recession date to us i believe its illegal
So wish us luck

 

[LeslieDet]

curious as to the range of this period...and guessing its based on individual state law?

I do not believe that it is based upon any specific state law, it is simply the time frame between the end of the statutory rescission rights (which is governed by state law) and closing. Sometimes that can be 30 days, other times it could be 90 days. It is most likely governed by the contract itself.

 

[dioxide45]

We will send the writting letters along with the contract to hgv and escrow company stating that we been lied to on promise and sales rep did not mention any recession date to us i believe its illegal
So wish us luck

They are not obligated to tell you about the rescission period. Just like you aren’t obligated to read contacts before signing them.

 

[LeslieDet]

We will send the writting letters along with the contract to hgv and escrow company stating that we been lied to on promise and sales rep did not mention any recession date to us i believe its illegal
So wish us luck

You are frankly wasting your words claiming that. You were provided with the contract. You could have read it; there is a section listing your statutory rescission rights. It is up to you to read and ask questions about it if you don't understand it. If you are in the time period prior to close and after the rescission rights expire, you notify the seller you are intending to default and not close the transaction. The reason why doesn't matter. If you are going to try and dispute the seller's ability to keep your down payment as liquidated damages, then you are going to get yourself into litigation over it IMHO.

 

[TUGBrian]

would be curious to know how a letter stating you intend to "not follow through with closing" would work out even if it had not yet closed? I dont believe any additional communication or signatures are required for that vs what was already in the signed contract? Would the resort even act on such a letter or just keep on keepin on with completing the transaction per the signed contract?

suppose the actual date of closing would come up if it actually got to mediation or similar but id not expect something like that to get that far TBH.

now you have me curious as to the usual timeframe for resorts to "officially close" after the contract is signed at the sales presentation.

 

[LeslieDet]

would be curious to know how a letter stating you intend to "not follow through with closing" would work out even if it had not yet closed? I dont believe any additional communication or signatures are required for that vs what was already in the signed contract? Would the resort even act on such a letter or just keep on keepin on with completing the transaction per the signed contract?

suppose the actual date of closing would come up if it actually got to mediation or similar but id not expect something like that to get that far TBH.

now you have me curious as to the usual timeframe for resorts to "officially close" after the contract is signed at the sales presentation.

IMO it is much better addressed head on. The time frame is short. It is entirely possible that all documents have already been signed and thus the closing will operate automatically unless the purchaser stops it from happening. By placing the seller on notice that you as buyer do not intend to close the transaction and instead will be defaulting, you are revoking any authorization previously given to perform the closing. You want to have that in writing. This is business. You provide a copy of the intent to default and refusal to close to escrow and notify escrow that you are revoking any prior authorization to close the deal on your behalf. The seller would rather not waste the time and money to have escrow prepare all documents and record the deed, vs being on notice that a default will be occurring and they keep the liquidated damages and move on.

I do not follow your comment about the actual closing date coming up if it got to mediation. The point of the default and the liquidated damages clause is to avoid litigation. It is basically a self help remedy. The buyer gives up the deposit and the seller gives up the sale. The damages are agreed to in advance. No litigation occurs. There is nothing to mediate.

 

[iftravel]

would be curious to know how a letter stating you intend to "not follow through with closing" would work out even if it had not yet closed? I dont believe any additional communication or signatures are required for that vs what was already in the signed contract? Would the resort even act on such a letter or just keep on keepin on with completing the transaction per the signed contract?

suppose the actual date of closing would come up if it actually got to mediation or similar but id not expect something like that to get that far TBH.

now you have me curious as to the usual timeframe for resorts to "officially close" after the contract is signed at the sales presentation.

The closing has to happen after the rescission period when the contract is executable. The it comes when the escrow receives all the required paperwork (which likely already signed but in the case of loan document it might be contingent) and most importantly the total amount specified, which takes time. You still have time to terminate the contract, just do whatever opposite.

 

[Maeris]

The closing has to happen after the rescission period when the contract is executable. The it comes when the escrow receives all the required paperwork (which likely already signed but in the case of loan document it might be contingent) and most importantly the total amount specified, which takes time. You still have time to terminate the contract, just do whatever opposite.

What do you mean by whatever opposite ?

 

[iftravel]

What do you mean by whatever opposite ?

Whatever opposite to what they tell you to follow in the closing process.

 

[Maeris]

Whatever opposite to what they tell you to follow in the closing process.

As far as we remember verbally they mention nothing about closing

 

[WorldT]

would be curious to know how a letter stating you intend to "not follow through with closing" would work out even if it had not yet closed? I dont believe any additional communication or signatures are required for that vs what was already in the signed contract? Would the resort even act on such a letter or just keep on keepin on with completing the transaction per the signed contract?

suppose the actual date of closing would come up if it actually got to mediation or similar but id not expect something like that to get that far TBH.

now you have me curious as to the usual timeframe for resorts to "officially close" after the contract is signed at the sales presentation.

I think the contract the OP posted actually answers that question. Section 8 says all the things listed MUST take place for "closing" to take place. If the things listed has not happen within 1 year, the buyer gets their money back.
There is no specification in the contract (and I presume by law) as to how long all the elements in the closing should be completed. However, since the OP has not been issued the points certificate as specified in the contract, the argument will be that closing has not taken place. I am not a lawyer but I am fairly confident I can argue that point in court convincingly. If section 8 is not complete, then OP can trigger section 14.2 and terminate the agreement. OP will lose the down payment but will not owe any loan.
Should the resort chose to ignore the letter (which would have been sent to the escrow company and sale department), they would not be in compliance with the contract.

 

[Maeris]

I just send the writting letter along with contract to both escrow and hgv . At this point i’m somuch in headache i don’t know if i do the right thing or will help me to not be in the loan. Wml . Thank you for all the help and suggestion and i will keep it posted . Appreciate all of you

 

[TUGBrian]

I think the contract the OP posted actually answers that question. Section 8 says all the things listed MUST take place for "closing" to take place. If the things listed has not happen within 1 year, the buyer gets their money back.
There is no specification in the contract (and I presume by law) as to how long all the elements in the closing should be completed. However, since the OP has not been issued the points certificate as specified in the contract, the argument will be that closing has not taken place. I am not a lawyer but I am fairly confident I can argue that point in court convincingly. If section 8 is not complete, then OP can trigger section 14.2 and terminate the agreement. OP will lose the down payment but will not owe any loan.
Should the resort chose to ignore the letter (which would have been sent to the escrow company and sale department), they would not be in compliance with the contract.

1 year seems like an incredibly long time to me, especially since I have to imagine owners could/would begin to book reservations long before that happened?

at least this is a new (to me anyway) line of questions that will be worth researching deeper into!

id think plenty of owners would be ok with surrendering the down payment if the end result was they didnt have to pay the balance of the contract!

 

[LeslieDet]

I think the contract the OP posted actually answers that question. Section 8 says all the things listed MUST take place for "closing" to take place. If the things listed has not happen within 1 year, the buyer gets their money back.
There is no specification in the contract (and I presume by law) as to how long all the elements in the closing should be completed. However, since the OP has not been issued the points certificate as specified in the contract, the argument will be that closing has not taken place. I am not a lawyer but I am fairly confident I can argue that point in court convincingly. If section 8 is not complete, then OP can trigger section 14.2 and terminate the agreement. OP will lose the down payment but will not owe any loan.
Should the resort chose to ignore the letter (which would have been sent to the escrow company and sale department), they would not be in compliance with the contract.

What you are missing is that the goal is to not go to court. Regardless of whether or not you can argue something, it is expensive to go to court. The venue of the dispute is most likely Las Vegas, or perhaps wherever the developer's main office is located. It requires hiring a lawyer to represent them, etc., and the wording you are relying upon ignores that the buyer cannot intentionally drag their feet in an effort to delay the deal. That is why the liquidated damages section is a much better option. The loss is known. It is the down payment. There is no need to hire a lawyer, there is no risk of being exposed to the other side's attorneys fees, etc.

 

[LannyPC]

...we been lied to on promise and sales rep did not mention any recession date to us i believe its illegal...

Two points here, and I'm not trying to rub salt in your wound here but I'm just being realistic.

First, the fact that the sales person lied to you has no merit unless you can prove that he lied to you. What proof do you have that would hold up in court? That's why most TS contracts say that what is written in the contract is what prevails and not what the sales person said to you.

Secondly, are you absolutely sure that the "sales rep did not mention any recession [sic] date to [you]"? As LeslieDet mentioned in a previous post, It was probably in your contract that you signed but just didn't read it until it was too late. Also, most state laws say that when you are signing the contract to buy, the sales rep is legally required to point out in the contract your rescission rights. It's possible that he or she did but, as most sales reps underhandedly do, point out the rescission rights while you are signing and not really paying attention. All the buyer is focused on is signing the papers so he can just get out of this long, arduous sales presentation.

All that being said, I wish you the best in what you're trying to do. And as others have already said (but I feel it bears repeating), do not go using any of these companies that claim they can get you out or your contract or can sue the developer.

 

[vail]

It seems clear--do not close and lose the $1339 at most.
Cheap lesson and end of story.

Even a remote possibility that they have to refund that--although I doubt that happens.

That is why they drag these sales pitches on and on.

 

[WorldT]

What you are missing is that the goal is to not go to court. Regardless of whether or not you can argue something, it is expensive to go to court. The venue of the dispute is most likely Las Vegas, or perhaps wherever the developer's main office is located. It requires hiring a lawyer to represent them, etc., and the wording you are relying upon ignores that the buyer cannot intentionally drag their feet in an effort to delay the deal. That is why the liquidated damages section is a much better option. The loss is known. It is the down payment. There is no need to hire a lawyer, there is no risk of being exposed to the other side's attorneys fees, etc.

I am pretty sure I am not missing anything. I am also pretty sure you are saying the same thing I am saying. Using section 8 and 14.2, the OP can trigger a termination of the contract. Down payment will be gone . That is what I said.
Any court action after that would depend on if the resort/developer ignored the letter from OP and proceeded to register the OP as a member.

Now to digress a little bit, a person does not need to hire a lawyer or file a lawsuit of this nature in Las Vegas. There are provisions that allow you to represent yourself and to file a lawsuit in your state if the company has any presence in your state or does business in your state.
For example, you can sue KLM and Delta in Houston (if you live in Houston ) if Delta sold you a code share flight and KLM (the carrier) messed up. Neither one of those companies have a corporate office in Houston.
Of course OP is not in the states so that might complicate things a little bit. Not sure how the Canadian laws are structured.

 

[Maeris]

I did send the letter to escrow and hgv with overnight courier and receipt attached to the letter aswell. Do i need write email to HGV inform i sent the letter ? For the escrow i don’t have the email. What should i do next ? I’m afraid they ignore my letter and enroll me in . Can i fight it if they do that?

 

[LeslieDet]

I am pretty sure I am not missing anything. I am also pretty sure you are saying the same thing I am saying. Using section 8 and 14.2, the OP can trigger a termination of the contract. Down payment will be gone . That is what I said.
Any court action after that would depend on if the resort/developer ignored the letter from OP and proceeded to register the OP as a member.

Now to digress a little bit, a person does not need to hire a lawyer or file a lawsuit of this nature in Las Vegas. There are provisions that allow you to represent yourself and to file a lawsuit in your state if the company has any presence in your state or does business in your state.
For example, you can sue KLM and Delta in Houston (if you live in Houston ) if Delta sold you a code share flight and KLM (the carrier) messed up. Neither one of those companies have a corporate office in Houston.
Of course OP is not in the states so that might complicate things a little bit. Not sure how the Canadian laws are structured.

Just fyi - each and every contract to purchase a timeshare will have a venue clause. So, while anyone can file a lawsuit, that doesn’t mean that is where a court has jurisdiction or venue. So, it’s irrelevant that one can represent themselves in court. This isn’t airline tickets. Please don’t start offering legal advice when you don’t understand anything about jurisdiction and venue.

And, you are missing something when you’re saying you’re going to argue in court. This isn’t about getting into court. It’s frankly about avoiding court and avoiding litigation for breach of contract. It’s also about not completing the transaction and then having the buyer be subject to a foreclosure.

 

[iftravel]

I did send the letter to escrow and hgv with overnight courier and receipt attached to the letter aswell. Do i need write email to HGV inform i sent the letter ? For the escrow i don’t have the email. What should i do next ? I’m afraid they ignore my letter and enroll me in . Can i fight it if they do that?

More importantly did you sign any loan doc? Can you find any lauguage / loan term with not HGV but some third party provider? Some bank or company must have extended a loan to you / run a credit check already / or least agreed to lend you money at a certain point (which is the closing date of December 8). Call that loan provider to terminate the loan! Or better, if not signed, don't proceed if they call you to sign or confirm. Without the funding, the escrow will simply not close it.